Do you make more money if you go to a better schoo?

[rccostner]

Going to better school teaches us right values, discipline etc.One can gain overall exposer to life and ideas.This will make him smarter than the rest by increasing his creativity.Definitely then he will make more money in the long run.

wow. i would hope you would learn right values and discipline long before you are applying to college. otherwise, what have your parents been doing all of these years? creativity, intelligence, and a broad exposure to ideas and life are a byproduct of individual choices and not a result of a college education, regardless of the institution you would attend. plenty of people graduate from universities every year that have next to no intelligence or creativity. i think its a big problem that our society lives by the notion that all learning must happen in a school of some sort. education should happen everywhere, especially at home, and simply be reinforced at school.

and making money in dentistry is a result of so many factors beyond what school you choose to attend. making intelligent, thoughtful decisions at every step of the process will result in success in a dental practice and life.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Stacker]

You make more money if you go to a cheaper school, not to a better school. The less student loans you have to pay back, the more money you will keep. My niece, who is a junior in high school, tells me that she wants to be a dentist. I advise her to attend a cheap unknown Cal State University near her house, instead of a better known, more expensive UCLA. At this lesser known university, it will be easier for her get high GPA. She will graduate with zero debt (since she will live with her parents). She will have more time to do things that are important for her dental school admission such as studying for the DAT, doing research, shadowing a dentist, and doing volunteer work etc.

Would you make the exception for those seeking specialties after dental school?

 

[Stacker]

Going to better school teaches us right values, discipline etc.One can gain overall exposer to life and ideas.This will make him smarter than the rest by increasing his creativity.Definitely then he will make more money in the long run.

That's hilarious.

 

[Stacker]

Toothsayer, i don't blame you for wanting to have been happy and enjoy your college years, but to put that as number one above everything else is pretty "foolish" in my opinion.

I just think many of the these young predents don't think about debt and the huge stress it can be in their lives... Have they ever even had debt? Have they felt the stress to make bills every month? Have they ever had to worry that if you are unemployed or underemployed you will default on your loans? Have they ever had to feel responsible for anyone else financially?

I can tell you that i have and it has been a very tough "experience". I don't have many large bills, but i do pay for 2 cars, rent, insurance, tuition (me and my wife), cell phone, electric/gas, and the other misc things. Being a full time student and working full time, these bills have been very burdensome and stressful... and i know they are very miniscule when compared to how much i will be paying for dschool.

I personally don't understand the logic of happiness/fun/experience trumps debt. Trust me a ton of debt is not fun and will not bring future happiness and the reality is that 350K of debt is a really ****ty experience. Also, i don't know how much happiness/experience is worth? An extra 50K, 100K, 200K? To me it would be none of those, because i create my own happiness.

You can have both you know... whether at Cal State or a UC... you can meet new people, go out, party hard, do intramural sports, and have a "college experience". We are in charge of defining our own realities... why pay more for it?

EDITED: Didn't realized Toothsayer was practicing dentist.... therefore i respect their opinion more and didn't want to come across offensive.

I agree. I blame the culture of this internet generation which demands instant gratification where everyone wants everything now for short-term happiness and ignore the long-term consequences.
If I wanted to be a general dentist I'd go to my state school but if I wanted to specialize, I might consider Penn, etc.

http://www.dreammanifesto.com/instant-gratificationthe-trap-avoids-building-real-wealth.html

 

[Stacker]

Some people feel that going to an ivy school will give them the heads up when applying to competitive specialties. Also, it's for the ego. With the government loaning as much money as you want to go to any dental school, students don't have to worry about the money until they pay it back.

After reading Walden, I value internal ego more than external material things like money. I'm sure I'll change my mind once I get wife+kids, buy a car, pay for my house, manage employees, pay for malpractice insurance, manage business and inventory, and pay back loans. There are too many other things to preoccupy my mind that I probably won't have time to think about brand-name school ego.

 

[Stacker]

.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

There is a lot of white and black posts in this thread when in reality we should all be meeting in a common gray area, fellow predents.

The college experience can be obtained at small schools; but not all small schools. I know this as a transfer student from a small university, where it was easy to obtain officer positions in clubs, but they didn't offer much experience. The larger university was more challenging in both coursework and obtaining positions in clubs, but it has been so much more worth it. The smaller college also didn't have TA's since the classes were small, which is opportunity lost in my eyes. Being a TA is a great way to find out if science is truly your field, to gain a great LOR, to get leadership experience and to reinforce material for the DAT. Although the coursework at a larger university may seem more challenging because of the large lectures the material is actually taught better in my honest opinion. These are all my reasons for standing up for the larger university - however the constant battle in my head is between these experiences and the amount of debt.

The amount of debt is important, but straight out of high school graduates are not all thinking about debt. Half of them don't even have their major "truly" picked out and have no idea that they will be taking out another 250k+ for dental school in 4 years. Not everyone knows that they want to become a dentist right out of high school. Living at home saves you money, yes. Living at college grows you up, and makes you an independent man/woman where you will finally be making decisions on your own, and making mistakes so that you can learn from them.

We need to stop kidding ourselves. Everyone goes to college to make money in the long run and have a better future. There are tons of other ways to make a decent living, but what is not included in those other professions: 1.) job security, 2.) You are the boss sauce, 3.) 6 figure salary, 4.) you pick how many days a week and what time you want to work 5.) A chance to be an expert in the health field

Bingo. This is why we are all going to be successful happy dentists. We are all smart, open minded people who were able to realize this while other undergraduates realized their own important things in life - despite whether we were funneling beer on the weekends or not. People who had the fortunate experience of having parents who could afford to pay their way through college - I don't despise you or think that you have not worked hard in undergrad - but it is true that you have a lot of stress taken off of your shoulder. When it comes to dental school, we are required to take out debt because it is worth it. Using our gifted open minds down the road we will all find a way to make it work - everyone has there own reasons for their own choices.

 

[charlestweed]

Would you make the exception for those seeking specialties after dental school?

If you plan to specialize, you should pick the cheapest state dental school and borrow as little as possible. After 4 years of dental school, there will NOT be a lot of low interest loans available. Huge amount of student loan debt has actually deterred many dental student from applying to specialty programs, especially the programs that charge tuition.

We need to stop kidding ourselves. Everyone goes to college to make money in the long run and have a better future. There are tons of other ways to make a decent living, but what is not included in those other professions: 1.) job security, 2.) You are the boss sauce, 3.) 6 figure salary, 4.) you pick how many days a week and what time you want to work 5.) A chance to be an expert in the health field.

In order to achieve all of these, you will need lots and lots of money. As I said earlier, it is easy for many predents to say "money is not important" or "you should do what you love." It will be tough if you only make 120-150k a year and owe $400k in student loans. I owed a lot less (well, $450k but that was for both my wife and me). Our combined income is many times higher than 120-150k a year and yet we still haven't had the freedom to pick the days we want to work. We haven't been 100% our own boss since I still work part time for a dental chain. We can't be 100% our own boss until we are 100% debt free.....that day will come when we pay off our home mortgage (the only debt we have left) ....hopefully, in 2-3 more years.

 

[Wicked Sin]

You think most your patients give a damn what school you went to?

I doubt they could name even 1 dental school.

Its just a name, what matter is if you know business and can perform your job well.

I do financial consulting for a bunch friends who are dentists. All went to different dental schools, their pay is pretty much about the same, infact the one who got out of Harvard dental school makes less money than the one who went to UNLV. Schools don't mean crap as long as you are a good Dentist.

 

[TheClutch]

You think most your patients give a damn what school you went to?

I doubt they could name even 1 dental school.

Its just a name, what matter is if you know business and can perform your job well.

I do financial consulting for a bunch friends who are dentists. All went to different dental schools, their pay is pretty much about the same, infact the one who got out of Harvard dental school makes less money than the one who went to UNLV. Schools don't mean crap as long as you are a good Dentist.

that's fantastic!
I'd love to hear about your work. Should/can I pm you???

 

[DatRat86]

You think most your patients give a damn what school you went to?

I doubt they could name even 1 dental school.

Its just a name, what matter is if you know business and can perform your job well.

I do financial consulting for a bunch friends who are dentists. All went to different dental schools, their pay is pretty much about the same, infact the one who got out of Harvard dental school makes less money than the one who went to UNLV. Schools don't mean crap as long as you are a good Dentist.

Amen

 

[copout]

If you plan to specialize, you should pick the cheapest state dental school and borrow as little as possible. After 4 years of dental school, there will NOT be a lot of low interest loans available. Huge amount of student loan debt has actually deterred many dental student from applying to specialty programs, especially the programs that charge tuition.


In order to achieve all of these, you will need lots and lots of money. As I said earlier, it is easy for many predents to say "money is not important" or "you should do what you love." It will be tough if you only make 120-150k a year and owe $400k in student loans. I owed a lot less (well, $450k but that was for both my wife and me). Our combined income is many times higher than 120-150k a year and yet we still haven't had the freedom to pick the days we want to work. We haven't been 100% our own boss since I still work part time for a dental chain. We can't be 100% our own boss until we are 100% debt free.....that day will come when we pay off our home mortgage (the only debt we have left) ....hopefully, in 2-3 more years.

Wait... I'm not quite sure I understand. Lets say you are 400k in debt and are making 120K starting out.

You're saying that a person in that situation would be scrapping by to live? How much is the loan payment? Over 5K a month?

EDIT:
I guess what I'm trying to say is, debt repayment would be a long process but if your making 120k thats about 7k a month after taxes. If loan repayment takes away half that money then 3.5K still seems like a comfortable amount of money to me. Heck I'm making 10 dollars an hour. And eventually you'll pay it back so as long as you can wait, it doesn't seem that bad to me.

So is that scenario optimistic?

 

[Wicked Sin]

Well when you have a large debt like 400k, your credit record prevents you from doing a lot of things. Such as buying a new house, car, getting loans to open your own clinic etc. Most dentists will be working as an associate or in a public funded clinic/hospital

You also have to factor that you income is taxed. $120,000 lies within the 28% income tax bracket. You can use the interest payments for your student loans as a tax deductible, the rate however vary and depend on the % interest based on what loan you have pay for.

However most starting dentists make $90,000-100,000 within 28% income tax. You will still of course be paying payments on the loans. I estimate with tax and loan payment you will have $50,000-60,000 left in your pocket.

Average living costs of an American is about $40,000. However, It really depends on where you live and what your lifestyle is.

In all you will have $10,000-20,000 left over that you will have to put into paying your debts.

At this rate it will take you nearly a decade to pay for $400,000 debt. That will be a decade of not being able to buy a new house, car, etc. Its a very big hole that you'll have to dig yourselves out of once you get out of dental school.

Most dental Students will come out with a quarter of a million in debt that will take them 5-7 years to pay off for.

This is all assume of course that the Dentist is an independent, therefore lives alone. If you parents can still back you up by the time you get out of Dental School, then you'll have a much easier time paying off that debt.

 

[corymartin2012]

If you're going into health science for money hopefully the system will weed you out.

This kind of talk really bothers me. Its as if people say, "if money drives you to do what you want to do, then your going to perform lesser quality work and not mean it".

Or the people who say, "go into finance and be a hedge fund manager". There is a 1% chance of being one of those, but a 45% (or even higher) chance of becoming a dentist or being accepted to dental school. One offers millions a year with 80+ hours, the other at least a six figure job working on less than 40 hours.

That is bull to the 10th degree.

I'd rather have a dentist who is top of the line, efficient and courteous but is doing it all for the money than having a dentist who isn't that great but they love to help people. Its when people compromise ethics and quality of job in exchange for money. Big difference. In terms of motivation money is one of the greatest drivers you will find.

The dentist that I go to told me straight up, that the money was what drove him to purse dentistry over athletic training. He loved the body but when he heard of the monetary possibilites he jumped ship. He pulls in a good 300k+ and has a very loyal patient base. He is one of the best dentists I could ask for. He has a wife, kids, good family, and seems happy every day I shadow under him. He takes care of each patient as if they are his only patient. He wants to help people, but he likes his money too.

I want to be a dentist because of four major reasons:

1.)the ability, with business intuition and lots of planning, to make anywhere from 180k-250k+ and the lifestyle of 36-44 hours a week!

2.)the opportunity to own a small business and operate intimately with my patient base and develop that patient-doctor bond

3.)a job that allows me to work with my hands on a daily basis, and challenges me mentally and physically on a daily basis

4.)the ability to solve someone's pain, immediately, and effectively.


Does that mean I will be an incompetent dentist, when or if I become one. No. Does it mean I am a worse person than you? No. It merely means that I value somethings higher than others and that does not mean I don't deserve a certain job. Helping people should certainly be a factor, but don't act like "wanting money" is the worst factor to pursue a career that has as many good characteristics as dentsitry!

If money makes you perform your best and makes you happy. Then pursue it for that factor. If helping people makes you perform at your best and makes you happy pursue if for that factor. Stop acting like money is the worst thing in the world.

Dang.

 

[Wicked Sin]

There is certainly a way to weed out dentists who want to do it for money aka. "terrible" dentists.

Cut the pay by 75% and then we'll see how many will try becoming dentists afterwards.

I will guarantee you that at least 95% of those future dentists will disappear in a blink of an eye.

Sorry to say, but as idealistic as people want dentists to be, money is what makes the world run. Not say that dentists should be greedy scum, but criticizing a dentist because of money is a dumb thing to do. You'll have criticize almost every job in the world because people are doing it for money.

Also isn't being a dentist reliant on the existence of health problems? If there were no such thing as cavities, gingivitis, and other mouth maladies, dentists will have no purpose. Wishing to be a dentist is the same as wishing for the continual existence of such problems. One cannot exist without the other.

 

[hockeykspiky]

This kind of talk really bothers me. Its as if people say, "if money drives you to do what you want to do, then your going to perform lesser quality work and not mean it".

Or the people who say, "go into finance and be a hedge fund manager". There is a 1% chance of being one of those, but a 45% (or even higher) chance of becoming a dentist or being accepted to dental school. One offers millions a year with 80+ hours, the other at least a six figure job working on less than 40 hours.

That is bull to the 10th degree.

I'd rather have a dentist who is top of the line, efficient and courteous but is doing it all for the money than having a dentist who isn't that great but they love to help people. Its when people compromise ethics and quality of job in exchange for money. Big difference. In terms of motivation money is one of the greatest drivers you will find.

The dentist that I go to told me straight up, that the money was what drove him to purse dentistry over athletic training. He loved the body but when he heard of the monetary possibilites he jumped ship. He pulls in a good 300k+ and has a very loyal patient base. He is one of the best dentists I could ask for. He has a wife, kids, good family, and seems happy every day I shadow under him. He takes care of each patient as if they are his only patient. He wants to help people, but he likes his money too.

I want to be a dentist because of four major reasons:

1.)the ability, with business intuition and lots of planning, to make anywhere from 180k-250k+ and the lifestyle of 36-44 hours a week!

2.)the opportunity to own a small business and operate intimately with my patient base and develop that patient-doctor bond

3.)a job that allows me to work with my hands on a daily basis, and challenges me mentally and physically on a daily basis

4.)the ability to solve someone's pain, immediately, and effectively.


Does that mean I will be an incompetent dentist, when or if I become one. No. Does it mean I am a worse person than you? No. It merely means that I value somethings higher than others and that does not mean I don't deserve a certain job. Helping people should certainly be a factor, but don't act like "wanting money" is the worst factor to pursue a career that has as many good characteristics as dentsitry!

If money makes you perform your best and makes you happy. Then pursue it for that factor. If helping people makes you perform at your best and makes you happy pursue if for that factor. Stop acting like money is the worst thing in the world.

Dang.

exactly

 

[charlestweed]

Wait... I'm not quite sure I understand. Lets say you are 400k in debt and are making 120K starting out.

You're saying that a person in that situation would be scrapping by to live?

Yes.

How much is the loan payment? Over 5K a month?

The minimum required monthly payment for our $450k debt was about $5500/month. And that was for 10 years. Stretching it to 30 years would help a little bit.

EDIT:
I guess what I'm trying to say is, debt repayment would be a long process but if your making 120k thats about 7k a month after taxes. If loan repayment takes away half that money then 3.5K still seems like a comfortable amount of money to me. Heck I'm making 10 dollars an hour. And eventually you'll pay it back so as long as you can wait, it doesn't seem that bad to me.

So is that scenario optimistic?

This is not much better than what my office manager makes. She only has a high school diploma and she makes $20/hour (or about $3500/month). Also keep in mind that most places hire associate dentists as independent contractors. As an independent contractor, you have to pay for your own health insurance, malpractice insurance, CE classes….you also have to set up your own retirements such as SEP IRA, 401k….college fund for your kids, a down payment for a house, taking out more loans to set up your dental practice….the list goes on and on

 

[Areaunknown]

There is certainly a way to weed out dentists who want to do it for money aka. "terrible" dentists.

Cut the pay by 75% and then we'll see how many will try becoming dentists afterwards.

I will guarantee you that at least 95% of those future dentists will disappear in a blink of an eye.

I believe a high salary does indeed play an enticing role for anyone who is considering dentistry as a profession. However, you can't simply hypothetically cut pay by 75% to try and prove a point in your argument. The reason dentists salaries are so high is because of the heavy schooling that is required to practice. If you had to shell out 300k to make 50k/year, of course nobody would do it! High-skilled workers incur a time cost as well as a money cost to acquire their skills -- they will only be willing to work for a higher wage rate. They supply their abilities (dentistry, in this case) at a higher price because there is a higher demand for high skilled workers and this creates a higher equilibrium wage rate. Your premise of cutting pay by 75% to weed out dentists makes no economic sense and it won't accomplish anything. Dentists make more money because they deserve it.

Also isn't being a dentist reliant on the existence of health problems? If there were no such thing as cavities, gingivitis, and other mouth maladies, dentists will have no purpose. Wishing to be a dentist is the same as wishing for the continual existence of such problems. One cannot exist without the other.

I think this is a bad way of looking at it. Do doctors wish for car accidents? Do firemen hope for more house fires in order to make a living? Certainly they don't. IMO this is a horribly misguided thing to say. As people, we accept that bad things do happen and they are fact of life. It is up to dentists to be there when dental things do go wrong.

 

[msctc2013]

This kind of talk really bothers me. Its as if people say, "if money drives you to do what you want to do, then your going to perform lesser quality work and not mean it".

Or the people who say, "go into finance and be a hedge fund manager". There is a 1% chance of being one of those, but a 45% (or even higher) chance of becoming a dentist or being accepted to dental school. One offers millions a year with 80+ hours, the other at least a six figure job working on less than 40 hours.

That is bull to the 10th degree.

I'd rather have a dentist who is top of the line, efficient and courteous but is doing it all for the money than having a dentist who isn't that great but they love to help people. Its when people compromise ethics and quality of job in exchange for money. Big difference. In terms of motivation money is one of the greatest drivers you will find.

The dentist that I go to told me straight up, that the money was what drove him to purse dentistry over athletic training. He loved the body but when he heard of the monetary possibilites he jumped ship. He pulls in a good 300k+ and has a very loyal patient base. He is one of the best dentists I could ask for. He has a wife, kids, good family, and seems happy every day I shadow under him. He takes care of each patient as if they are his only patient. He wants to help people, but he likes his money too.

I want to be a dentist because of four major reasons:

1.)the ability, with business intuition and lots of planning, to make anywhere from 180k-250k+ and the lifestyle of 36-44 hours a week!

2.)the opportunity to own a small business and operate intimately with my patient base and develop that patient-doctor bond

3.)a job that allows me to work with my hands on a daily basis, and challenges me mentally and physically on a daily basis

4.)the ability to solve someone's pain, immediately, and effectively.


Does that mean I will be an incompetent dentist, when or if I become one. No. Does it mean I am a worse person than you? No. It merely means that I value somethings higher than others and that does not mean I don't deserve a certain job. Helping people should certainly be a factor, but don't act like "wanting money" is the worst factor to pursue a career that has as many good characteristics as dentsitry!

If money makes you perform your best and makes you happy. Then pursue it for that factor. If helping people makes you perform at your best and makes you happy pursue if for that factor. Stop acting like money is the worst thing in the world.

Dang.

You nailed it

 

[TheClutch]

This kind of talk really bothers me. Its as if people say, "if money drives you to do what you want to do, then your going to perform lesser quality work and not mean it".

Or the people who say, "go into finance and be a hedge fund manager". There is a 1% chance of being one of those, but a 45% (or even higher) chance of becoming a dentist or being accepted to dental school. One offers millions a year with 80+ hours, the other at least a six figure job working on less than 40 hours.

That is bull to the 10th degree.

I'd rather have a dentist who is top of the line, efficient and courteous but is doing it all for the money than having a dentist who isn't that great but they love to help people. Its when people compromise ethics and quality of job in exchange for money. Big difference. In terms of motivation money is one of the greatest drivers you will find.

The dentist that I go to told me straight up, that the money was what drove him to purse dentistry over athletic training. He loved the body but when he heard of the monetary possibilites he jumped ship. He pulls in a good 300k+ and has a very loyal patient base. He is one of the best dentists I could ask for. He has a wife, kids, good family, and seems happy every day I shadow under him. He takes care of each patient as if they are his only patient. He wants to help people, but he likes his money too.

I want to be a dentist because of four major reasons:

1.)the ability, with business intuition and lots of planning, to make anywhere from 180k-250k+ and the lifestyle of 36-44 hours a week!

2.)the opportunity to own a small business and operate intimately with my patient base and develop that patient-doctor bond

3.)a job that allows me to work with my hands on a daily basis, and challenges me mentally and physically on a daily basis

4.)the ability to solve someone's pain, immediately, and effectively.


Does that mean I will be an incompetent dentist, when or if I become one. No. Does it mean I am a worse person than you? No. It merely means that I value somethings higher than others and that does not mean I don't deserve a certain job. Helping people should certainly be a factor, but don't act like "wanting money" is the worst factor to pursue a career that has as many good characteristics as dentsitry!

If money makes you perform your best and makes you happy. Then pursue it for that factor. If helping people makes you perform at your best and makes you happy pursue if for that factor. Stop acting like money is the worst thing in the world.

Dang.

BAMM!! in your face!!!!!! Just because someone loves the capability of buying power/money can do for himself/herself and people around him/her, that doesn't mean he/she can''t commit to serve others and make a difference in the community.

PS for pre-dents, dont say these at the interview and on ur PS. too riskyy