Do you wanna know why they're opening more schools?
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or you just prove your worth.
I already know.
A school will make more money, and get more support from the public if they open one. It's simple as hell. They are great business opportunities and there is a perceived need.
A school will make more money, and get more support from the public if they open one. It's simple as hell. They are great business opportunities and there is a perceived need.
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Here too in the UK. Pharmacists have been in shortage ever since I qualified over 50 years ago. Before this they were closing schools for fear of a surplus. Many more schools now opened with larger intakes (my year in 1954 was 36).
Locum (relief) work drying up and this is first sign of impending surplus. In 50 years time will probably be shortage again.
johnep
Locum (relief) work drying up and this is first sign of impending surplus. In 50 years time will probably be shortage again.
johnep
Yeah. Just graduate before the bottom falls out. 😉
I highly doubt the wage will be decreased. More than not, raises will fall off.
Lol, I was seriously considering pursuing Pharmacy because of the demand. Although, I doubt my severely autistic brain that has trouble grasping multi-trait pummet squares could handle the schooling.
Yes, salaries rarely decrease in nominal terms. It almost never ever happens. However you guys may be interested in reading this document. It takes into account the opening of new schools on the labor market, and is only a year old.
ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf
ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf
👍
Excellent report! 👍
Extra thumbs up for being one of the few pharmacy students that I know of to post reports ~a year old instead from 2000.
Excellent report! 👍
Extra thumbs up for being one of the few pharmacy students that I know of to post reports ~a year old instead from 2000.
Thanks aznfarmerboi! I think it's going to get worse for a while and never be as good as it was. And people who hoped for easy street in a huge metro area are going to be sorely disappointed (may lead to cries of desperation by many) but i think we are far from absolute destruction, and things will eventually get better than they are going to be in the very near future.
Glad you enjoyed that study. I find it to be much more rational than 99% of the "pharmacist shortage / pharmacist surplus " drivel out there. For those who havent read it yet.. they do have a section on the study's weaknesses and strengths, and quantitative modeling of a variety of future economic conditions on both the supply and demand side of the market.
Duh...
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Wow what a revelation...I have never heard this before especially on here.👎laugh:
I know a lot of hospital pharmacists are members of unions. Do unions have some protection against decreasing pharmacists wages? But of course...nothing is for certain.
qft!!
They will decrease in terms of not keeping up with other costs and become "less" in that respect.
Omgee! This is one of my big fears in life! I dread the idea of coming out of Pharmacy School and not being able to pay the thousands of dollars in loans I will have. The market is being really saturated with pharmacists. WHAT TO DO WHAT TO DO? AHHHHH!! 🙁
wait. what?
Lol, people get scared too easily. Just dont have your heart set on working in a particular area. I know I will not be able to work in the Chicagoland area. I am prepared to relocate if need be.
I really think almost everyone on here is extremely paranoid. From another post, this is the projected job outlook for pharmacy for the next decade or so:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos079.htm
Wages: Increased. Growth: from 2009-2018, is 17%. Jobs may be saturated in big metropolitan areas, especially clinical jobs, but there is still growth. Pharmacy graduates have nothing to worry about at least for the next decade or so.
Let everyone get scared. Maybe then there will be less people pursuing pharmacy and the demand will increase as well as pay. 👍
Dude it says the field will grow by 45k in 10 years and how many students will be pumped out by then??? over 100k damn some people can't do math or are gullible.
I've seen too many *******es trying to get into pharmacy. It drives me craaaaazy.
True, some can't do math. Or worse yet, they go off of one person's opinion and go ranting on here about it. No way will there be over 100,000 new pharmacists in 10 years. Maybe 25,000 at most. There just aren't and will not be that many pharmacy schools around to pump out that many pharmacists. So, doing the math, ~40,000 new jobs (based on the 17% growth rate in the next decade) - 25,000 new pharmacists (based on the link below) = 15,000 new jobs still available. So based on these numbers, the demand won't be met for quite some time.
http://www.hhs.gov/pharmacy/phpharm/howmany.html
To the critics, this data is kind of old, but it's not that far off on the projections up to this point.
Really, I wish people on here would stop trying to create fear. Stop trying to dishearten those that are in pharmacy school/ those that are looking forward to getting into pharmacy school.
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And you don't have to take my word for it. Here's a quote from a year old study someone else posted:
"The projections suggest that only when combining an optimistic supply scenario with a conservative demand scenario will future supply be adequate to meet the needs of a growing and aging population. However, under most scenarios modeled, supply will be insufficient to meet the needs of a population caused by growth in per capita consumption of pharmaceuticals."
From ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf
I know this won't quash the arguing caused by those trying to freak everyone out, but at least I tried.
"The projections suggest that only when combining an optimistic supply scenario with a conservative demand scenario will future supply be adequate to meet the needs of a growing and aging population. However, under most scenarios modeled, supply will be insufficient to meet the needs of a population caused by growth in per capita consumption of pharmaceuticals."
From ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf
I know this won't quash the arguing caused by those trying to freak everyone out, but at least I tried.
Good effort milly. I'm not freaking out about this anymore. You just have to work hard in anything you do. Im gonna try to make it to the top. Anyone can find their dream job with the right attitude and enough hard work.
Just using some rough numbers - let's say there are 110 pharmacy schools (we are around that number now, right?) - graduating 100 people per class (some schools are around 70, some around 200), x10 years =110,000 pharmacists graduating in the next 10 years.
Obviously rough numbers, and some people will retire in the meantime. But that's still closer to 100K than your 25K.
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There are now 121 schools, and about 4 schools have opened every year for the past few years. So, in ten years there will be around ~150--160 schools at this rate. It is almost a guarantee that 100,000+ pharmacists will be pumped out in the next 10 years. (LAW SCHOOL)
So only 50-60% of graduates will get jobs. People still go to law school, and look at what's going on there.
I sort of follow the belief of most here. Students from good, established pharmacy schools or people with residencies will be able to find work. Those going to Uncle Joe's school of pharmacy will struggle as much as a third-tier law students when it comes to finding work.
I have no idea what the AACP is doing. But if they don't wake up soon, pharmacy will be in for a big change.
We should act. I contacted ACPE about this. All i got was a oh we accept schools that are qualified. Why can't they raise their standards my god!
Well if I may add my 2 cents: I'm sorta afraid of the way things are going in pharmacy, but I think it will do something magnificent, and that pharmacy hasnt seen in a while: open the door for competition. I'm tired of greedy idiots pulling a fast one on the admissions comittee just to get in school and sail through on the C's or D's get PharmD's program. I was very disappointed in myself when I got my first C my second year, but I knew it wouldn't be the first. 6 C's later, and rapidly approaching 4th year rotations, I can say that I have come across some students who get poor grades, but know the material, and some who get poor grades, who dont know their 5HT receptor from their NMDA (then look at me as if I'm a genius because I do know). Oye... so competition is not that bad of a thing in pharmacy. I foresee in increase in the workload of the state boards of pharmacy because you will have idiots who are only minimally prepared, who make simple mistakes that might cost a life or two. All in all though, I'm optomistic about the profession. Every new student I get a chance to talk to here at my school I tell them how wise of a choice they made because my school prepares us for the future of pharmacy, and not the current day, and so we learn medical spanish, we learn more about opening pharmacist-lead ambulatory clinics, we're required to outline business plans our 3rd year because my Dean knows that the retail bubble is bound to burst-- and he wants to make us competitive in the market. So fret not those of you who are doing things the right way-- it's not you who have anything to fear.. those who have everything to fear are those who will be asked, in the future, what can you bring to the table that the other 10 pharmacists cannot OR those asked to provide a copy of their transcript... 
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
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Well if I may add my 2 cents: I'm sorta afraid of the way things are going in pharmacy, but I think it will do something magnificent, and that pharmacy hasnt seen in a while: open the door for competition. I'm tired of greedy idiots pulling a fast one on the admissions comittee just to get in school and sail through on the C's or D's get PharmD's program. I was very disappointed in myself when I got my first C my second year, but I knew it wouldn't be the first. 6 C's later, and rapidly approaching 4th year rotations, I can say that I have come across some students who get poor grades, but know the material, and some who get poor grades, who dont know their 5HT receptor from their NMDA (then look at me as if I'm a genius because I do know). Oye... so competition is not that bad of a thing in pharmacy. I foresee in increase in the workload of the state boards of pharmacy because you will have idiots who are only minimally prepared, who make simple mistakes that might cost a life or two. All in all though, I'm optomistic about the profession. Every new student I get a chance to talk to here at my school I tell them how wise of a choice they made because my school prepares us for the future of pharmacy, and not the current day, and so we learn medical spanish, we learn more about opening pharmacist-lead ambulatory clinics, we're required to outline business plans our 3rd year because my Dean knows that the retail bubble is bound to burst-- and he wants to make us competitive in the market. So fret not those of you who are doing things the right way-- it's not you who have anything to fear.. those who have everything to fear are those who will be asked, in the future, what can you bring to the table that the other 10 pharmacists cannot OR those asked to provide a copy of their transcript...
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
That was a nice post. I totally agree with you. I think its funny how people are so scared because they might actually have to sell themselves to get their dream job. Any job you do in this country you HAVE to work hard to get on top. We all had to put in a lot of hard work and effort to get into pharmacy school. People need to get the idea out of there head that once your in there's nothing to worry about.
docss26 said:Well if I may add my 2 cents: I'm sorta afraid of the way things are going in pharmacy, but I think it will do something magnificent, and that pharmacy hasnt seen in a while: open the door for competition. I'm tired of greedy idiots pulling a fast one on the admissions comittee just to get in school and sail through on the C's or D's get PharmD's program. I was very disappointed in myself when I got my first C my second year, but I knew it wouldn't be the first. 6 C's later, and rapidly approaching 4th year rotations, I can say that I have come across some students who get poor grades, but know the material, and some who get poor grades, who dont know their 5HT receptor from their NMDA (then look at me as if I'm a genius because I do know). Oye... so competition is not that bad of a thing in pharmacy. I foresee in increase in the workload of the state boards of pharmacy because you will have idiots who are only minimally prepared, who make simple mistakes that might cost a life or two. All in all though, I'm optomistic about the profession. Every new student I get a chance to talk to here at my school I tell them how wise of a choice they made because my school prepares us for the future of pharmacy, and not the current day, and so we learn medical spanish, we learn more about opening pharmacist-lead ambulatory clinics, we're required to outline business plans our 3rd year because my Dean knows that the retail bubble is bound to burst-- and he wants to make us competitive in the market. So fret not those of you who are doing things the right way-- it's not you who have anything to fear.. those who have everything to fear are those who will be asked, in the future, what can you bring to the table that the other 10 pharmacists cannot OR those asked to provide a copy of their transcript...
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
That was a nice post. I totally agree with you. I think its funny how people are so scared because they might actually have to sell themselves to get their dream job. Any job you do in this country you HAVE to work hard to get on top. We all had to put in a lot of hard work and effort to get into pharmacy school. People need to get the idea out of there head that once your in there's nothing to worry about.
I've got nothing against competition until it means the jobs we are competing for are dropping wages (nominal or real, what does it matter) due to a glut in the labor pool.
More schools = More $$ for AACP/ACPE
Don't hold your breath about them doing a lot to reduce the number of schools in the country or to even slow the pace of new schools popping up.
Well if I may add my 2 cents: I'm sorta afraid of the way things are going in pharmacy, but I think it will do something magnificent, and that pharmacy hasnt seen in a while: open the door for competition. I'm tired of greedy idiots pulling a fast one on the admissions comittee just to get in school and sail through on the C's or D's get PharmD's program. I was very disappointed in myself when I got my first C my second year, but I knew it wouldn't be the first. 6 C's later, and rapidly approaching 4th year rotations, I can say that I have come across some students who get poor grades, but know the material, and some who get poor grades, who dont know their 5HT receptor from their NMDA (then look at me as if I'm a genius because I do know). Oye... so competition is not that bad of a thing in pharmacy. I foresee in increase in the workload of the state boards of pharmacy because you will have idiots who are only minimally prepared, who make simple mistakes that might cost a life or two. All in all though, I'm optomistic about the profession. Every new student I get a chance to talk to here at my school I tell them how wise of a choice they made because my school prepares us for the future of pharmacy, and not the current day, and so we learn medical spanish, we learn more about opening pharmacist-lead ambulatory clinics, we're required to outline business plans our 3rd year because my Dean knows that the retail bubble is bound to burst-- and he wants to make us competitive in the market. So fret not those of you who are doing things the right way-- it's not you who have anything to fear.. those who have everything to fear are those who will be asked, in the future, what can you bring to the table that the other 10 pharmacists cannot OR those asked to provide a copy of their transcript...
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
We will see how you feel once you graduate with massive student loan debt and are unable to find a job. Despite what you feel are your stellar qualifications you very well could be one of the 5 pharmacists applying for the 1 job who doesn't get it. We will see how great you think competition is then.
What is wrong with being guaranteed a job upon graduation? I wonder why people go to college and get degrees in fields where they are not guaranteed a job. There were good and bad things that came out of the shortage of the last 10 years. I say the good far out weighed the bad. You are trying to argue that having a surplus of pharmacy schools cranking out a surplus of pharmacists will be good? I completely disagree.
Well if I may add my 2 cents: I'm sorta afraid of the way things are going in pharmacy, but I think it will do something magnificent, and that pharmacy hasnt seen in a while: open the door for competition. I'm tired of greedy idiots pulling a fast one on the admissions comittee just to get in school and sail through on the C's or D's get PharmD's program. I was very disappointed in myself when I got my first C my second year, but I knew it wouldn't be the first. 6 C's later, and rapidly approaching 4th year rotations, I can say that I have come across some students who get poor grades, but know the material, and some who get poor grades, who dont know their 5HT receptor from their NMDA (then look at me as if I'm a genius because I do know). Oye... so competition is not that bad of a thing in pharmacy. I foresee in increase in the workload of the state boards of pharmacy because you will have idiots who are only minimally prepared, who make simple mistakes that might cost a life or two. All in all though, I'm optomistic about the profession. Every new student I get a chance to talk to here at my school I tell them how wise of a choice they made because my school prepares us for the future of pharmacy, and not the current day, and so we learn medical spanish, we learn more about opening pharmacist-lead ambulatory clinics, we're required to outline business plans our 3rd year because my Dean knows that the retail bubble is bound to burst-- and he wants to make us competitive in the market. So fret not those of you who are doing things the right way-- it's not you who have anything to fear.. those who have everything to fear are those who will be asked, in the future, what can you bring to the table that the other 10 pharmacists cannot OR those asked to provide a copy of their transcript...
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
I agree with part of what you say but I would think twice before holding an elitist point of view regarding your classmates. You don't know their full strengths and weaknesses. Having 6 C's yourself and calling out your "unqualified" classmates is a bit redonkulous. The people in your class with 4.0's might be wondering about you.
First of all, keep in my that a job is in demand because either:
a.) No one wants to do it
b.) No one CAN do it.
Keeping that in mind, not everyone can go to Pharmacy school. Some of us struggle with BASIC chemistry concepts and take 5 minutes to understand the correlation between conjugate acids and bases.
So, people in my situation have two options:
A.) Go for a crappy job like Accounting, BUT at least it's in demand. Of course, that makes it worth it to spend the majority of your life in the field right? Even if your miserable.
B.) Go for a that middle ground career. A job that one doesn't hate or love...but can stand. Of course, jobs like this that people of inferior intellect can handle have more competition.
So, in my case, I am going for a Bachelors in Radiological Sciences. How is the demand? Moderate.........
Hope that answers your question.
I was explaining why people choose to go for fields with less demand. It's because stupid people(like mwa) are limited in the fields they can choose to pursue.
If you'll notice, I bolded the part in MountianD's post in which I was responding to.....
"Why do people choose to go for fields that aren't in demand"
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Well if I may add my 2 cents: I'm sorta afraid of the way things are going in pharmacy, but I think it will do something magnificent, and that pharmacy hasnt seen in a while: open the door for competition. I'm tired of greedy idiots pulling a fast one on the admissions comittee just to get in school and sail through on the C's or D's get PharmD's program. I was very disappointed in myself when I got my first C my second year, but I knew it wouldn't be the first. 6 C's later, and rapidly approaching 4th year rotations, I can say that I have come across some students who get poor grades, but know the material, and some who get poor grades, who dont know their 5HT receptor from their NMDA (then look at me as if I'm a genius because I do know). Oye... so competition is not that bad of a thing in pharmacy. I foresee in increase in the workload of the state boards of pharmacy because you will have idiots who are only minimally prepared, who make simple mistakes that might cost a life or two. All in all though, I'm optomistic about the profession. Every new student I get a chance to talk to here at my school I tell them how wise of a choice they made because my school prepares us for the future of pharmacy, and not the current day, and so we learn medical spanish, we learn more about opening pharmacist-lead ambulatory clinics, we're required to outline business plans our 3rd year because my Dean knows that the retail bubble is bound to burst-- and he wants to make us competitive in the market. So fret not those of you who are doing things the right way-- it's not you who have anything to fear.. those who have everything to fear are those who will be asked, in the future, what can you bring to the table that the other 10 pharmacists cannot OR those asked to provide a copy of their transcript...
Why should you be gauranteed a job just because you have debt and a certificate that reads "Doctor of Pharmacy"? I've always had to prove myself and I'm actually glad there will be a time where, instead of there being 5 jobs per 1 pharmacist, there will be 5 pharmacists competing for 1 job. I can't believe we're all getting so afraid of pharmacy becoming more like other positions where you have to show your worth before you're hired... I'm very optomistic that placed side by side with some of the idiots I've met in pharmacy, I have a great chance of getting any job I apply for once I graduate.
competition is what pre-pharm/undergrad is for.
maybe if there were less schools, the "idiots" you're "tired of" wouldn't get in.
Hey Op, go look at BLS data and tell me what you think. Fact is, national average of current pharmacists are barely adequate. The average career length is only 10 years with the median age of 35 years of age. That mean at some point, when a pharmacist reach 45 years of age, something happened. Usually they get promoted to store manager since 90% are in retail or they changed jobs. Oddly, there are alot of pharmacists with a dual degrees like J.D. or MBA, etc. I was worried at first too, but after looking at my city with 1500-2000 only pharmacists of 1.2 millions citizens, I think it is not that saturated. That's an equivalent of 1000 citizens per pharmacists.
50% unemployment rate for a doctoral healthcare degree? Unheard of. College graduates right now have an unemployment rate of around 5-6%.
Also, yeah, we'll graduate 100,000 pharmacists in the next decade.. Around 55,000 will retire, and around 45,000 new positions will be made. The emplyment crunch isnt gonna be that bad. Look up info on retirement rates.
More students and not enough schools? Or schools get license revoked? Happened in Ohio and Florida. (must be politics)
I love how you people think that if there is a crunch, grades will be the first assessment for a job. Trust me when I say company and your work experience will be way more important.
