Doc's in Iraq

[DiveMD]

I should have figured you'd pile in on this.

I really don't get your point. Mine was simple:

1.) All sorts of docs get sent to Iraq
2.) "Tired" was out of line and I let him know it

No mangled limbs here but plenty of awards. Actually I think your "permit" system is flawed. Remember, Jessica Lynch got a Bronze Star for getting lost and captured in 2003 so it may not be the best measure of ones right to self-righteous indignation. But if that is the current system then so be it.

Paradude, I think you should return to your books. Your prior time, awards or "hoo-yah" attitude will not help your USMLE performance. : Good luck.

BTW, post again once you have some GMO time under your belt...

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[paradude]

Paradude, I think you should return to your books. Your prior time, awards or “hoo-yah” attitude will not help your USMLE performance. : Good luck.

BTW, post again once you have some GMO time under your belt...

This is my favorite sort of post, "we'd like you to post again after 3 years when you've gotten the moisture off of the back of your ears. Post after you're a GMO, when you've actually gone and done something". Never mind your prior 8 years of service. Your point of view here only matters when you're a doctor. What happens next? We want your experience as a doctor to matter, then we'll deride you for not being board certified and then if you have the balls to post positive stuff about milmed we'll call whatever service you are in as substandard and set the bar even higher.

Have the decency to call a spade a spade. Military medicine is a great alternative to those of us who didn't grow up with a silver spoon up our *** and who decided that rather than go in debt $200,000 we would choose another noble alternative and serve our country and deal with that decision. I'm still very happy with that decision. If you aren't, tell us why, but don't be a disingenous and make believe it's because you suddenly had an epiphany that milmed is dangerous and subversive. You, risk sounding like Clinton talking about her ordeal avoiding sniper fire in Bosnia back in '94.

That would be absolute BS

 

[IgD]

This is my favorite sort of post, "we'd like you to post again after 3 years when you've gotten the moisture off of the back of your ears. Post after you're a GMO, when you've actually gone and done something". Never mind your prior 8 years of service. Your point of view here only matters when you're a doctor...

So basically you are a student at USUHS who is lecturing those of us who have graduated medical school, completed military GME and served as attendings? Medical school (and residency to a certain extent) is a very sheltered and protected time. I'm interested in your opinions but please understand where we are coming from and try to put it in perspective.

You mentioned you had 8 years enlisted service. How would you feel if you were a SGT and an E1 at boot camp was telling you how things should work?

 

[sethco]

decided that rather than go in debt $200,000 we would choose another noble alternative and serve our country

Quick question. Please be honest. Just a simple yes or no response will do.

If they did not pay for your education and other expenses, would you have signed the contract?

 

[Perrotfish]

Dunno if the Air Force has a different policy, but I've met plenty of Army surgeons who told me about being deployed with the Vagina Crew who were expected to function as Trauma Surgeons. They usually ended up just doing first assist, or so I was told.

Have they ever tried to create any sort of a training program for doctors from the more "peacetime" they shunt into these sorts of jobs? Something like a 3 month residency in EM? It doesn´t seem like it would be that hard to implement.

If they did not pay for your education and other expenses, would you have signed the contract?

Can´t speak for him, but as I´ve said before I think I would have signed up after I had finished both residency, and paying back my debt from residency. I imagine that there are others like me.

 

[Homunculus]

This is my favorite sort of post, "we'd like you to post again after 3 years when you've gotten the moisture off of the back of your ears. Post after you're a GMO, when you've actually gone and done something". Never mind your prior 8 years of service. Your point of view here only matters when you're a doctor. What happens next? We want your experience as a doctor to matter, then we'll deride you for not being board certified and then if you have the balls to post positive stuff about milmed we'll call whatever service you are in as substandard and set the bar even higher.

Have the decency to call a spade a spade. Military medicine is a great alternative to those of us who didn't grow up with a silver spoon up our *** and who decided that rather than go in debt $200,000 we would choose another noble alternative and serve our country and deal with that decision. I'm still very happy with that decision. If you aren't, tell us why, but don't be a disingenous and make believe it's because you suddenly had an epiphany that milmed is dangerous and subversive. You, risk sounding like Clinton talking about her ordeal avoiding sniper fire in Bosnia back in '94.

That would be absolute BS

look at IgD's post above. no amount of prior service will give you accurate knowledge of what it is like "inside" the functioning, living, breathing beast of military medicine. nor will being a medical student. nor will residency. The fact of the matter is that, like the E-1 IgD mentions, you are attempting to comment on something that you have a peripheral knowledge of at best. it's like me commenting on infantry warfare because i did 4 years of ROTC in college, lol. to extrapolate that to people will then dismiss you because you aren't board certified or what service you are in once you have experience is a little overboard. if i were a trained combat medic but didn't have an EFMB, would you automatically dismiss my opinions? probably not. what if i were an enlisted E-nothing at boot camp telling you my opinions of combat medics? you'd laugh at me. same issue-- you are in training, and once you can appreciate a physicians viewpoint after training you will understand where the physicians in the forum are coming from.

people have different experiences, and if as an attending or GMO you have a positive outlook i know i will not harbor any ill feelings toward you. some GMO's enjoyed their experience, and have posted about it. i would welcome a positive attendings voice here, and try to figure out what about their situation can be replicated other places.

i was similar to you (only without quite the same "hu-ah-ness"-- i never took the "military is great" approach, but always said that "this is the view from a residency" and how things looked from MEDCEN life. i was careful to avoid the pitfalls that suck up some medstudents and residents (and in some cases, attendings), to swallow the party line and fall into place on the conveyor belt. honestly, as a coping strategy, accepting it and looking at the positives is healthier. but it doesn't mean that your reality is the same for other people. people who are "out in the trenches" of military medicine have much different responsibilities and are no longer insulated from things that residencies and USUHS protect you from.

this forum relies on its members for discussions and information, and everyone is valuable-- and for every active poster there are 2 or 3 lurking who may have the same questions or opinions. i welcome your input and discussion of your experiences and opinions, as long as you are aware of the context you are posting them and how other people may view them.

--your friendly neighborhood finishing postcall clinic caveman

 

[Galo]

look at IgD's post above. no amount of prior service will give you accurate knowledge of what it is like "inside" the functioning, living, breathing beast of military medicine. nor will being a medical student. nor will residency. The fact of the matter is that, like the E-1 IgD mentions, you are attempting to comment on something that you have a peripheral knowledge of at best. it's like me commenting on infantry warfare because i did 4 years of ROTC in college, lol. to extrapolate that to people will then dismiss you because you aren't board certified or what service you are in once you have experience is a little overboard. if i were a trained combat medic but didn't have an EFMB, would you automatically dismiss my opinions? probably not. what if i were an enlisted E-nothing at boot camp telling you my opinions of combat medics? you'd laugh at me. same issue-- you are in training, and once you can appreciate a physicians viewpoint after training you will understand where the physicians in the forum are coming from.

people have different experiences, and if as an attending or GMO you have a positive outlook i know i will not harbor any ill feelings toward you. some GMO's enjoyed their experience, and have posted about it. i would welcome a positive attendings voice here, and try to figure out what about their situation can be replicated other places.

i was similar to you (only without quite the same "hu-ah-ness"-- i never took the "military is great" approach, but always said that "this is the view from a residency" and how things looked from MEDCEN life. i was careful to avoid the pitfalls that suck up some medstudents and residents (and in some cases, attendings), to swallow the party line and fall into place on the conveyor belt. honestly, as a coping strategy, accepting it and looking at the positives is healthier. but it doesn't mean that your reality is the same for other people. people who are "out in the trenches" of military medicine have much different responsibilities and are no longer insulated from things that residencies and USUHS protect you from.

this forum relies on its members for discussions and information, and everyone is valuable-- and for every active poster there are 2 or 3 lurking who may have the same questions or opinions. i welcome your input and discussion of your experiences and opinions, as long as you are aware of the context you are posting them and how other people may view them.

--your friendly neighborhood finishing postcall clinic caveman

Very evenhanded for a caveman!

Seems your short time in AD has made you see and experience things you may not have once thought possible.

It seems petty to have to argue about milmed with premeds, med students, and residents who think they have the whole picture but don't yet have any idea of what's coming.

I appreciate your honesty in what you know think of milmed, and how you present it to prospectives.

 

[NavyDMO]

This is my favorite sort of post, "we'd like you to post again after 3 years when you've gotten the moisture off of the back of your ears. Post after you're a GMO, when you've actually gone and done something". Never mind your prior 8 years of service. Your point of view here only matters when you're a doctor. What happens next? We want your experience as a doctor to matter, then we'll deride you for not being board certified and then if you have the balls to post positive stuff about milmed we'll call whatever service you are in as substandard and set the bar even higher.

Have the decency to call a spade a spade. Military medicine is a great alternative to those of us who didn't grow up with a silver spoon up our *** and who decided that rather than go in debt $200,000 we would choose another noble alternative and serve our country and deal with that decision. I'm still very happy with that decision. If you aren't, tell us why, but don't be a disingenous and make believe it's because you suddenly had an epiphany that milmed is dangerous and subversive. You, risk sounding like Clinton talking about her ordeal avoiding sniper fire in Bosnia back in '94.

That would be absolute BS

DiveMD is calling "a spade a spade". He has worked for everything he has ever accomplished. No silver spoon there. He is also one of the smartest colleagues I have ever worked with. Top tier program in the hardest residency to MATCH into. Humble too.

If he says study.....study!

 

[SgtDoc]

Just because they're not turning down the money doesn't mean they're doing it for the money. That said, I think if there weren't a scholarship (or FAP...whatever particular incentive you want to talk about) accession of docs would go way down. Why? Because then being a military doc goes from being a gook/OK/not disastrous financial decision to a stupid one. Medical schools loans could be very burdensome to a doctor getting military pay (even military pro-pays) with no other incentives.

I personally know people who would have liked to have joined to service (not as doctors) after college, but were unable because they owed HUGE amounts of student loans...they were afraid they wouldn't be able to pay off the loans. Did their ROTC classmates who had everything paid for do it for the money? I don't know. But I do know that some guys who didn't do ROTC came out feeling like they couldn't afford to join the military...and not from a lifestyle standpoint either, but from the standpoint of "I'm afraid I literally won't be able to pay off my student loans on military pay".

There have been plenty of threads on whether or not HPSP is a good deal financially. Whether it is or not, I do think that it makes it possible for medical students "afford" to be military doctors. I think that is the best way for med students to look at the HPSP. No, you might not come out ahead on the deal, but I want to serve in the military and this program will prevent me from having a huge pile of debt to worry about paying off on the salary of a military physician.

I just completed a five year enlistment in the Marine Corps in Dec, which included two tours to Iraq. I will apply to, and hopefully get into, USUHS this year. I have plenty of money due to good (lucky) investments with deployment earnings, and really would be much better off financially to go to a civilian medical school. I am trying to become a military doctor, though, because I want to be a military doctor. I really love the military, the Marines anyway, and even though I have only been out a few short months, I am in the process of joining the national guard for one year until I go to medical school. I just took a trip this past weekend to USU to check it out and meet with the dean of admissions, and it was great. Things were obviously a little less military structured than I am used to, but it was overall a great experience. So, some people actually do join the military out of patriotism and not necessity.

 

[gastrodoc]

SGTdoc-
If money is truly no object, you should think long and hard about going civilian then (re)joining through FAP. Ensure that you get trained in the specialty that you want.