Doctivism---Is it the new normal?

[Porkloins]

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I would work on your reading comprehension first, before attributing certain opinions to me. "To be fair, I'm sure that there were students from those schools who did not take part in those demonstrations." --- Ya think?!?! They were nearly all MS-1s and MS-2s. MS-3s and MS-4s acutually have real things to do and worry about. Nothing like a good protest right before having to sit in a lecture hall though. I wonder if those students also support PNHP's other values. Hmmmm..... That not so much.

If you look at the comments on articles, you'll see people mentioning deaths due to medical errors (not what they came in with but due to medical errors), which kills MORE people than a local police force annually and them wondering if medical students will protest that. What about a white doctor and a black patient and that person dying? Just as you can use the sword on others it can just as easily be used on you.

I think you're losing the balance between healthy skepticism and just plain unproductive cynicism here. The black/white dynamic in this country is undeniably unique from other race relations due to obvious (hopefully) reasons. Police slayings are obviously the rarest and most extreme examples, but even discounting these, the urban black population faces undeniably higher levels of harassment and militant behavior from police. These recent events are not the same as a black patient dying under the care of a white doctor. This is about looking at the broader implications of having a (white) police force that acts more like an invading alien force than a part of the community when it comes to the patrolling of black neighborhoods.

Garner/Brown were not angels, but the circumstances surrounding their deaths do provide the ammunition needed to move a national discussion forward. I don't like fads either. I don't think a lot of people who take part in the protests really even know many of the specific details or broader implications surrounding what's going on. But the reality is, gory headlines and flashy fads will start national discussion much better than petitioning or writing to legislators. I would not be surprised if this whole ordeal has not vastly increased the general levels of awareness among whites about the problems black communities face.

Will de-clawing the police force solve every problem blacks face? No. Is it ideal that we have to look at this from a black/white perspective instead of one for equality of all races? No. Is it ideal that it takes a room full of dead elementary school kids to initiate gun control reform? No again. But you take small steps, and you work with what you've got, else you don't work at all.

 

[radkat101]

I think you're losing the balance between healthy skepticism and just plain unproductive cynicism here. The black/white dynamic in this country is undeniably unique from other race relations due to obvious (hopefully) reasons. Police slayings are obviously the rarest and most extreme examples, but even discounting these, the urban black population faces undeniably higher levels of harassment and militant behavior from police. These recent events are not the same as a black patient dying under the care of a white doctor. This is about looking at the broader implications of having a (white) police force that acts more like an invading alien force than a part of the community when it comes to the patrolling of black neighborhoods.

Garner/Brown were not angels, but the circumstances surrounding their deaths do provide the ammunition needed to move a national discussion forward. I don't like fads either. I don't think a lot of people who take part in the protests really even know many of the specific details or broader implications surrounding what's going on. But the reality is, gory headlines and flashy fads will start national discussion much better than petitioning or writing to legislators. I would not be surprised if this whole ordeal has not vastly increased the general levels of awareness among whites about the problems black communities face.

Will de-clawing the police force solve every problem blacks face? No. Is it ideal that we have to look at this from a black/white perspective instead of one for equality of all races? No. Is it ideal that it takes a room full of dead elementary school kids to initiate gun control reform? No again. But you take small steps, and you work with what you've got, else you don't work at all.

The problems black communities face are primarily the black communities' fault. They take absolutely no responsibility for their situation. I went to school in a black neighborhood and the cops didn't give a s*** about the corner kids selling heroin out on the street all day because the situation was so bad there that they had to devote all their resources to more serious problems. If I tried to sell heroin in white suburbia, I'd be thrown in jail for 20 years. This has nothing to do with race, or blacks being treated differently just because they are black. It has everything to do with a culture of violence that is blamed on the rest of society and perpetuated by protests like this that validate their actions. When I see them start making an effort to change their communities then maybe I'll feel more sympathetic towards their cause.

 

[DermViser]

I think you're losing the balance between healthy skepticism and just plain unproductive cynicism here. The black/white dynamic in this country is undeniably unique from other race relations due to obvious (hopefully) reasons. Police slayings are obviously the rarest and most extreme examples, but even discounting these, the urban black population faces undeniably higher levels of harassment and militant behavior from police. These recent events are not the same as a black patient dying under the care of a white doctor. This is about looking at the broader implications of having a (white) police force that acts more like an invading alien force than a part of the community when it comes to the patrolling of black neighborhoods.

Garner/Brown were not angels, but the circumstances surrounding their deaths do provide the ammunition needed to move a national discussion forward. I don't like fads either. I don't think a lot of people who take part in the protests really even know many of the specific details or broader implications surrounding what's going on. But the reality is, gory headlines and flashy fads will start national discussion much better than petitioning or writing to legislators. I would not be surprised if this whole ordeal has not vastly increased the general levels of awareness among whites about the problems black communities face.

Will de-clawing the police force solve every problem blacks face? No. Is it ideal that we have to look at this from a black/white perspective instead of one for equality of all races? No. Is it ideal that it takes a room full of dead elementary school kids to initiate gun control reform? No again. But you take small steps, and you work with what you've got, else you don't work at all.

No one is talking about black patients dying due to their condition in a hospital under a white doctor. I am referring to MEDICAL ERRORS, which kill 100,000 people a year. My point (which you obviously missed) is that the same type of microscope and level of scrutiny these farcical medical students are giving to this issue can be done just as well against them. Esp. since this protest required no actual sacrifice on their part. In New York, police are distributed based on crime statistics. Period. Not bc of racial motivations.

No one has said that there isn't a problem in terms of black people and police. Michael Brown is the WRONG case to hold up as you poster case.

 

[DermViser]

The problems black communities face are primarily the black communities' fault. They take absolutely no responsibility for their situation. I went to school in a black neighborhood and the cops didn't give a s*** about the corner kids selling heroin out on the street all day because the situation was so bad there that they had to devote all their resources to more serious problems. If I tried to sell heroin in white suburbia, I'd be thrown in jail for 20 years. This has nothing to do with race, or blacks being treated differently just because they are black. It has everything to do with a culture of violence that is blamed on the rest of society and perpetuated by protests like this that validate their actions. When I see them start making an effort to change their communities then maybe I'll feel more sympathetic towards their cause.

Same with teachers. There is a reason that good teachers leave certain high-risk schools.

 

[hellanutella]

This point was made earlier in the thread by @mehc012, @gapyearguppy, @Lucca, and @ridethecliche, but I just want to hammer this home further. The #blacklivesmatter movement does not delegitimise the struggles that other groups face and in no way implies that all cops are bigoted.

The response it faces is eerily similar to the #yesallwomen movement, where people came out of the woodwork going "why not yes all men?" and "not ALL men are like that!" We don't do the same thing at a walk for breast cancer event and go "what about ALL cancers?" or slam "support our troops" for not supporting all professions.

These movements are designed to call attention to serious issues in our society. Racial profiling and police brutality are real things. They are a reality that millions of people face every moment of every day. There is no possible way that anyone can deny this (save for wilful ignorance), so I don't understand why so many people out there seek to invalidate the issues these activists have brought forth.

As for "hashtag activism" appearing less-sophisticated and "gimmicky," keep in mind that this has proven to be a very effective means of disseminating information and rallying support on both a national and global scale. It's a way of making such discussions open to all; petitioning and legislation are slower-acting and usually only accessible to the more privileged subsets of society. Sure, some people may jump on the die-ins just to bandwagon, but I'd be willing to bet a majority of participants are genuine in their intentions. Hell, I bet a lot of students have personal experience with the issues that #blacklivesmatter brings forth. And no, I don't think this is something being done just as "CV filler."

 

[gshocke]

The problems black communities face are primarily the black communities' fault. They take absolutely no responsibility for their situation. I went to school in a black neighborhood and the cops didn't give a s*** about the corner kids selling heroin out on the street all day because the situation was so bad there that they had to devote all their resources to more serious problems. If I tried to sell heroin in white suburbia, I'd be thrown in jail for 20 years. This has nothing to do with race, or blacks being treated differently just because they are black. It has everything to do with a culture of violence that is blamed on the rest of society and perpetuated by protests like this that validate their actions. When I see them start making an effort to change their communities then maybe I'll feel more sympathetic towards their cause.

you are an idiot.

the fact that you used a drug example to attempt to prove your poorly supported argument shows how little you know about this country. Do you know anythingggg about the Crack v. Powder Cocaine debate in the 1980s? anything about the Fair Sentencing Act that was signed only FOUR yrs ago because of the harsher penalties of possessing crack (predominantly used by blacks) than for possessing powder cocaine (used by affluent whites)?

please go away

 

[radkat101]

you are an idiot.

the fact that you used a drug example to attempt to prove your poorly supported argument shows how little you know about this country. Do you know anythingggg about the Crack v. Powder Cocaine debate in the 1980s? anything about the Fair Sentencing Act that was signed only FOUR yrs ago because of the harsher penalties of possessing crack (predominantly used by blacks) than for possessing powder cocaine (used by affluent whites)?

please go away

Whites aren't murdering each other in mass numbers over powder cocaine and then blaming everyone else for their stupidity.

 

[hellanutella]

Also, here's a piece on the relevance of #blacklivesmatter and medicine (albeit not a perfect article in the eyes of some, I think it makes a very valid point). Medicine is not immune to problems that plague law enforcement... racial profiling still occurs.

you are an idiot.

the fact that you used a drug example to attempt to prove your poorly supported argument shows how little you know about this country. Do you know anythingggg about the Crack v. Powder Cocaine debate in the 1980s? anything about the Fair Sentencing Act that was signed only FOUR yrs ago because of the harsher penalties of possessing crack (predominantly used by blacks) than for possessing powder cocaine (used by affluent whites)?

please go away

It has been shown that blacks receive 20 to 15% longer sentences than whites for the same crime, higher rates of receiving the death penalty, etc. etc. (NAACP fact sheet).

Also, @radkat101, keep in mind that it is systematic oppression that placed black communities up against such hardships... and it is systematic oppression that keeps many there. We are not – and never have been – a post-racial society. 🙁

 

[Lucca]

You're right what do those idiots in Allopathic know right? 🙄🙄🙄 What would they know about healthcare?

That thread was about WhiteCoatsForBlackLives. Also I didn't insult anyone in Allopathic for being stupid. I was commenting on how different this thread is from that one.

 

[DermViser]

That thread was about WhiteCoatsForBlackLives. Also I didn't insult anyone in Allopathic for being stupid. I was commenting on how different this thread is from that one.

Yeah, there's a big reason for that. And don't act as if that thread has nothing to do with this one.

 

[DermViser]

Also, here's a piece on the relevance of #blacklivesmatter and medicine (albeit not a perfect article in the eyes of some, I think it makes a very valid point). Medicine is not immune to problems that plague law enforcement... racial profiling still occurs.

It has been shown that blacks receive 20 to 15% longer sentences than whites for the same crime, higher rates of receiving the death penalty, etc. etc. (NAACP fact sheet).

Also, @radkat101, keep in mind that it is systematic oppression that placed black communities up against such hardships... and it is systematic oppression that keeps many there. We are not – and never have been – a post-racial society. 🙁

If you're going to make an argument regarding facts on this issue -- using the NAACP which has a dog in this fight and is a direct participant is not a good idea. You of all people should know better.

 

[Lucca]

Yeah, there's a big reason for that. And don't act as if that thread has nothing to do with this one.

The fact that they have everything to do with each other was the point I was trying to make. Yah allopathic and preallo are very different demographics with the former being way more conservative, apparently. That or the liberal allos just gave up.

 

[gshocke]

Also, here's a piece on the relevance of #blacklivesmatter and medicine (albeit not a perfect article in the eyes of some, I think it makes a very valid point). Medicine is not immune to problems that plague law enforcement... racial profiling still occurs.




It has been shown that blacks receive 20 to 15% longer sentences than whites for the same crime, higher rates of receiving the death penalty, etc. etc. (NAACP fact sheet).

Also, @radkat101, keep in mind that it is systematic oppression that placed black communities up against such hardships... and it is systematic oppression that keeps many there. We are not – and never have been – a post-racial society. 🙁

dont waste your breath
@radkat101 most likely does not know what systematic oppression is or covert racism or institutionalized racism or that the word race, itself, is a social construct created for the pure purpose of keeping blacks marginalized.

 

[DermViser]

The fact that they have everything to do with each other was the point I was trying to make. Yah allopathic and preallo are very different demographics with the former being way more conservative, apparently. That or the liberal allos just gave up.

Nope. Has absolutely nothing to do with being conservative vs. liberal. Try again.

 

[DermViser]

dont waste your breath
@radkat101 most likely does not know what systematic oppression is or covert racism or institutionalized racism or that the word race, itself, is a social construct created for the pure purpose of keeping blacks marginalized.

I realize that comment was directed towards @radkat101, but as much as I do very much believe insitutional and covert prejudice exists, you saying that the purpose of the word "race" is a social construct created for the pure purpose of keeping blacks marginalized, makes you absolutely crazy if not an utter fool.

 

[gshocke]

I realize that comment was directed towards @radkat101, but as much as I do very much believe insitutional and covert prejudice exists, you saying that the purpose of the word "race" is a social construct created for the pure purpose of keeping blacks marginalized, makes you absolutely crazy if not an utter fool.

in regards to US history and race, yes that is the purpose it served. but Im not even going to get into this history/sociology lesson that Ive studied for years and try and make you understand in a matter of minutes.
Remain ignorant.

 

[radkat101]

dont waste your breath
@radkat101 most likely does not know what systematic oppression is or covert racism or institutionalized racism or that the word race, itself, is a social construct created for the pure purpose of keeping blacks marginalized.

Give me a f******* break. My argument was not denying racism. My argument was referring to the VIOLENT culture that cops have to go out and deal with on a daily basis. The perpetrators attribute their actions to racism and suddenly become "victims". Then clueless people like yourself buy into their BS and start protesting for them even though you have absolutely 0 experience with what actually goes on in these places and probably wouldn't last a day in one of these neighborhoods. You just pull academic buzzwords out of your a** and expect that to be enough to support you argument. I used to think like you.

 

[gshocke]

Give me a f******* break. My argument was not denying racism. My argument was referring to the VIOLENT culture that cops have to go out and deal with on a daily basis. The perpetrators attribute their actions to racism and suddenly become "victims". Then clueless people like yourself buy into their BS and start protesting for them even though you have absolutely 0 experience with what actually goes on in these places and probably wouldn't last a day in one of these neighborhoods. You just pull academic buzzwords out of your a** and expect that to be enough to support you argument. I used to think like you.

did you forget about how you foolishly said that if a black person was selling herion they would be ignored but if you were selling herion in a white neighborhood you would get 20+ yrs in jail?
or
"This has nothing to do with race, or blacks being treated differently just because they are black."
my argument is that this has everything to do with race while you try and say it doesnt.

in addition to your statements regarding violence, you brought race into this in every way by denying that the way blacks are treat is due to their race (or racism)

 

[DermViser]

in regards to US history and race, yes that is the purpose it served. but Im not even going to get into this history/sociology lesson that Ive studied for years and try and make you understand in a matter of minutes.
Remain ignorant.

So then the Census Bureau asking about race on their census forms is to marginalize blacks? Ok. Be sure to adjust your tinfoil hat, premed.

 

[DermViser]

Give me a f******* break. My argument was not denying racism. My argument was referring to the VIOLENT culture that cops have to go out and deal with on a daily basis. The perpetrators attribute their actions to racism and suddenly become "victims". Then clueless people like yourself buy into their BS and start protesting for them even though you have absolutely 0 experience with what actually goes on in these places and probably wouldn't last a day in one of these neighborhoods. You just pull academic buzzwords out of your a** and expect that to be enough to support you argument. I used to think like you.

And now you know why people in Allo stay away from Pre-Allo bc it's useless to use actual facts.

 

[gshocke]

@radkat101 you have no idea where I was born and raised and what I have seen. Ive actually had to survive my whole life in these types of neighborhoods, so when the amount of ppl in your graduating HS class that are dead or in jail surpasses the amount that attained their college degree, thats when you can try and tell me about my life.

 

[gshocke]

@DermViser um, yeah. ive already graduated and have been accepted,so that premed jab did not affect me in the least bit. even if i was still a premed...and? okay go run behind ur MD letters to prove empty superiority in knowledge about issues you know nothing about.
you are obviously blinded by what occurs to blacks in america.

 

[Doctorphilic]

I change states every couple of years and I work/live/study in at least 4 different cities/counties at any given time. I guess I'm just not very attached to local stuff.

I agree that laying down does nothing concrete. I just don't think that writing legislators does either. Personally, I think the most we can hope for from ANY action is making a statement, so I guess I'm not disappointed that that is all the protests accomplish.

Like you were saying earlier,

You're right. Nothing says acting like a mature, responsible adult like taking part in protests, and then groveling to your professors and law school administration like a child that you don't have enough time to study bc of your protest involvement and thus need your finals moved. Yup. Not at all shocked you looked up to that as an example.

You know why sports athletes are being mocked? It's bc they do STUPID things like saying "Hands Up Don't Shoot" at a national game when the grand jury evidence pretty much said that that didn't happen. But bc it's a "possibility" that's the best thing to build a movement on. Amirite? Feel free to jump to more conclusions. It's probably the best exercise you're going to get today.

I think the problem is that the grand jury decision itself is being questioned because of the way in which the case was handled. So you think if the grand jury acquits someone there is no reason to protest even if they do it wrongly? What does justice mean to you? What if the whole system is rigged? The mother of Mike Brown, Travon Martin and the wife of Mr. Eric all think that the system of justice is rigged. What do you respond to that?

 

[DrBowtie]

Like you were saying earlier,

I think the problem is that the grand jury decision itself is being questioned because of the way in which the case was handled. So you think if the grand jury acquits someone there is no reason to protest even if they do it wrongly? What does justice mean to you? What if the whole system is rigged? The mother of Mike Brown, Travon Martin and the wife of Mr. Eric all think that the system of justice is rigged. What do you respond to that?

It's rigged to them because they aren't objective and obviously biased.

 

[radkat101]

@radkat101 you have no idea where I was born and raised and what I have seen. Ive actually had to survive my whole life in these types of neighborhoods, so when the amount of ppl in your graduating HS class that are dead or in jail surpasses the amount that attained their college degree, thats when you can try and tell me about my life.

What is your point exactly? Your friends are dead and in jail because.....????

 

[Doctorphilic]

I think you're losing the balance between healthy skepticism and just plain unproductive cynicism here. The black/white dynamic in this country is undeniably unique from other race relations due to obvious (hopefully) reasons. Police slayings are obviously the rarest and most extreme examples, but even discounting these, the urban black population faces undeniably higher levels of harassment and militant behavior from police. These recent events are not the same as a black patient dying under the care of a white doctor. This is about looking at the broader implications of having a (white) police force that acts more like an invading alien force than a part of the community when it comes to the patrolling of black neighborhoods.

Garner/Brown were not angels, but the circumstances surrounding their deaths do provide the ammunition needed to move a national discussion forward. I don't like fads either. I don't think a lot of people who take part in the protests really even know many of the specific details or broader implications surrounding what's going on. But the reality is, gory headlines and flashy fads will start national discussion much better than petitioning or writing to legislators. I would not be surprised if this whole ordeal has not vastly increased the general levels of awareness among whites about the problems black communities face.

Will de-clawing the police force solve every problem blacks face? No. Is it ideal that we have to look at this from a black/white perspective instead of one for equality of all races? No. Is it ideal that it takes a room full of dead elementary school kids to initiate gun control reform? No again. But you take small steps, and you work with what you've got, else you don't work at all.

Amen to that! Got all the nuances worked out and that is how we should approach these issues!

 

[Doctorphilic]

The problems black communities face are primarily the black communities' fault. They take absolutely no responsibility for their situation. I went to school in a black neighborhood and the cops didn't give a s*** about the corner kids selling heroin out on the street all day because the situation was so bad there that they had to devote all their resources to more serious problems. If I tried to sell heroin in white suburbia, I'd be thrown in jail for 20 years. This has nothing to do with race, or blacks being treated differently just because they are black. It has everything to do with a culture of violence that is blamed on the rest of society and perpetuated by protests like this that validate their actions. When I see them start making an effort to change their communities then maybe I'll feel more sympathetic towards their cause.

I agree with you that black communities need to do more to solve their own problems. However, to say that there is a culture of violence is stretching it. This is why I think premed teachings should emphasize the role of environment, culture and history in shaping our lives. The violence and mishaps you seen in black communities does not operate in a vacuum. I am not condoning it but I am saying it has to do with the state and the history of this country too.

 

[Doctorphilic]

you are an idiot.

the fact that you used a drug example to attempt to prove your poorly supported argument shows how little you know about this country. Do you know anythingggg about the Crack v. Powder Cocaine debate in the 1980s? anything about the Fair Sentencing Act that was signed only FOUR yrs ago because of the harsher penalties of possessing crack (predominantly used by blacks) than for possessing powder cocaine (used by affluent whites)?

please go away

Keep it nice! I think the OP probably lacked a historical grounding of these issues and without looking at the history of race relations in this county, these types of debates are meaningless. And when we make big assumptions that are not supported by evidence and combine is with willful ignorance, it creates a bad situation even for the so called educated class. You make great points and educate---that is better in the long run!

 

[radkat101]

I agree with you that black communities need to do more to solve their own problems. However, to say that there is a culture of violence is stretching it. This is why I think premed teachings should emphasize the role of environment, culture and history in shaping our lives. The violence and mishaps you seen in black communities does not operate in a vacuum. I am not condoning it but I am saying it has to do with the state and the history of this country too.

I realize it would have been better phrased as "a culture that accepts violence as a regular part of life". But I still want someone to give a thought out response as to how "die-ins" are going to improve any of this. What more can society do for these people? I'm not at all ignorant of the history of race relations in this country, but the country has done TONS to try and improve this. Many blacks make it just fine in this country. Sometimes they even become president. We've done our part as far as I'm concerned. It's time for them to do theirs.

 

[ridethecliche]

The problems black communities face are primarily the black communities' fault. They take absolutely no responsibility for their situation. I went to school in a black neighborhood and the cops didn't give a s*** about the corner kids selling heroin out on the street all day because the situation was so bad there that they had to devote all their resources to more serious problems. If I tried to sell heroin in white suburbia, I'd be thrown in jail for 20 years. This has nothing to do with race, or blacks being treated differently just because they are black. It has everything to do with a culture of violence that is blamed on the rest of society and perpetuated by protests like this that validate their actions. When I see them start making an effort to change their communities then maybe I'll feel more sympathetic towards their cause.

This should be required reading for everyone that wants to post anything as misguided as you just did because you refuse to acknowledge any sort of historical significance and root causes of these 'issues', which I like to refer to as disparities.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

I realize it would have been better phrased as "a culture that accepts violence as a regular part of life". But I still want someone to give a thought out response as to how "die-ins" are going to improve any of this. What more can society do for these people? I'm not at all ignorant of the history of race relations in this country, but the country has done TONS to try and improve this. Many blacks make it just fine in this country. Sometimes they even become president. We've done our part as far as I'm concerned. It's time for them to do theirs.

Yes and all muslims are terrorists, asians are smart, yada yada yada.

 

[DesertPT]

The question of whether minorities and their communities are oppressed because of systemic racism, because they've "done it to themselves" or because of some combination of the two is a great philosophical debate to have, but not what is going to actually better anyone's lives.

What has been successful historically is the work of people who actually do things rather than just getting pissed about things. Can you imagine what good could be done if all the hours and effort being devoted to protesting about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc. etc. was devoted to a constructive project?

How about a nationwide campaign to encourage minority kids to stay in school? How about a national effort to provide resources that could facilitate such? Would that not be more worthwhile than a national campaign to convince everyone that cops are the bad guy?

What if we all stood up to preach in support of fathers not abandoning their children and families staying together, instead of standing up to preach about racist cops?

It doesn't really matter to me what your viewpoint on racism in America is. That is never going to effect any change. In the wake of tragedies such as the widely publicized police incidents of late, can you imagine what would happen if our society could decide that speaking up for things that directly better others lives was more fashionable than crying racism? Then we could actually put all this "activism" to good use.

 

[Doctorphilic]

This should be required reading for everyone that wants to post anything as misguided as you just did because you refuse to acknowledge any sort of historical significance and root causes of these 'issues', which I like to refer to as disparities.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/



Yes and all muslims are terrorists, asians are smart, yada yada yada.

Great points! He is certainly a gifted writer and he taught me a lot about historical events and what it means for our modern society--including impact on health of minorities. On another note, do you think paying reparation can bring closure so blacks and their suffering? It is an interesting debate that touches on legal, moral and historical issues.

 

[JustReleased]

So let me understand this correctly, is it because of past sins that the African American society has its "unique" problems?

 

[gapyearguppy]

The question of whether minorities and their communities are oppressed because of systemic racism, because they've "done it to themselves" or because of some combination of the two is a great philosophical debate to have, but not what is going to actually better anyone's lives.

What has been successful historically is the work of people who actually do things rather than just getting pissed about things. Can you imagine what good could be done if all the hours and effort being devoted to protesting about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc. etc. was devoted to a constructive project?

How about a nationwide campaign to encourage minority kids to stay in school? How about a national effort to provide resources that could facilitate such? Would that not be more worthwhile than a national campaign to convince everyone that cops are the bad guy?

What if we all stood up to preach in support of fathers not abandoning their children and families staying together, instead of standing up to preach about racist cops?

It doesn't really matter to me what your viewpoint on racism in America is. That is never going to effect any change. In the wake of tragedies such as the widely publicized police incidents of late, can you imagine what would happen if our society could decide that speaking up for things that directly better others lives was more fashionable than crying racism? Then we could actually put all this "activism" to good use.

But these campaigns are happening. There are campaigns and projects to encourage minority kids to stay in school. There are people and foundations working on these issues as we speak. There are people of color who are working every day to improve their communities through grassroot campaigns - I've worked with them, I've seen them, and I think it's a disservice to them to act as if they don't exist.

Oppression works and operates through continual silence. Yes, it may seem like people are just all talk and doing nothing, but police have been brutalizing black and brown communities for a long time now and this is the first time we've seen such a visceral national response to police brutality conversations. People are speaking about these things and that is spreading awareness. That in itself can be considered activism. Choosing not to remain silent is powerful in itself, and we've seen time and time again that it remains productive. The fact that we're all even having this conversation is huge, whereas before the targeting of black communities by police was something just not spoken about at all.

The ALS Ice Bucket Challenge brought awareness to a disease which wasn't on anyone's radar and that awareness raised 41 million dollars! Petitions for body cameras that were floating around after the Mike Brown non-indictment ruling were actually brought to the presidents attention. The House of Reps are even talking about the need for legislation to police our police forces

So yes, discussing these issues, even vehemently and passionately, is changing things. Talking about oppression and inequality is far better than remaining silent. Talking leads to action, which there is plenty of.

 

[ridethecliche]

The question of whether minorities and their communities are oppressed because of systemic racism, because they've "done it to themselves" or because of some combination of the two is a great philosophical debate to have, but not what is going to actually better anyone's lives.

What has been successful historically is the work of people who actually do things rather than just getting pissed about things. Can you imagine what good could be done if all the hours and effort being devoted to protesting about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc. etc. was devoted to a constructive project?

How about a nationwide campaign to encourage minority kids to stay in school? How about a national effort to provide resources that could facilitate such? Would that not be more worthwhile than a national campaign to convince everyone that cops are the bad guy?

What if we all stood up to preach in support of fathers not abandoning their children and families staying together, instead of standing up to preach about racist cops?

It doesn't really matter to me what your viewpoint on racism in America is. That is never going to effect any change. In the wake of tragedies such as the widely publicized police incidents of late, can you imagine what would happen if our society could decide that speaking up for things that directly better others lives was more fashionable than crying racism? Then we could actually put all this "activism" to good use.

Do you know that black kids in elementary schools are subject to harsher punishments for misbehaving than white kids? So you get more suspensions, expulsions, but yet they're supposed to stay in school right?

http://www.indiana.edu/~equity/undequ.php

Also, you should tell the HIV/AIDS community that activism doesn't work and also possibly read about the history of activism and social movements. You're delusional.

Side note: People get rich sending black men to for profit prisons. The incarceration rate for black men is far higher than those for white men found guilty of the same crimes. How about actually starting to realize that the judicial system does screw some people over. Or is that too big of a fashionable fad to you.

Everything you have written is ill-informed. You just laid down pretty strong reasons for having a liberal arts education.

Were you born and raised here? If not, you seem to know less about American social history than an immigrant.

Great points! He is certainly a gifted writer and he taught me a lot about historical events and what it means for our modern society--including impact on health of minorities. On another note, do you think paying reparation can bring closure so blacks and their suffering? It is an interesting debate that touches on legal, moral and historical issues.

I'm not an advocate for reparations, but this is one of the most well researched pieces I have read about just how racism was systemically enforced even in the north. If you can read that and say that business as usual is equal, then it's a damn shame.

I don't think a payoff erases the past, but it just shows that even though we've come pretty far there's still a long way to go. It also shows just how dirty some 'old money' is.

 

[DesertPT]

You all missed the point of my post entirely. I don't disagree with the comments responding to it, because that was not my point. Pretty much everything that anyone says over the internet is subject to misinterpretation.

 

[DesertPT]

Do you know that black kids in elementary schools are subject to harsher punishments for misbehaving white kids?

Well maybe this is news to someone, but it's not news to me.

You could not have missed the point of my post more. Eh, that's alright.

 

[DesertPT]

-

 

[WingedOx]

F***, I'd say about only 20% of the residents in my program even voted last month.

 

[mehc012]

F***, I'd say about only 20% of the residents in my program even voted last month.

People in our age demographic are pretty notorious for being inactive in local politics. Makes sense when you figure that, while in educational programs, people are often from out of state or don't necessarily plan to live there long-term.

It's still not a good thing, of course.

 

[WingedOx]

People in our age demographic are pretty notorious for being inactive in local politics. Makes sense when you figure that, while in educational programs, people are often from out of state or don't necessarily plan to live there long-term.

It's still not a good thing, of course.

Made even worse when my program has a massive amount of training at the VA, and a majority of our primary hospital's patient funding coming from Medicare/Medicaid.

 

[mehc012]

Made even worse when my program has a massive amount of training at the VA, and a majority of our primary hospital's patient funding coming from Medicare/Medicaid.

I must admit that I compromised this year...I voted, but only on the ballot measures themselves, rather than the politicians. It was a lot less work to educate myself on those issues, and some of them I felt quite strongly about. On the other hand, I could honestly care less who the Treasurer of the city I happen to technically reside in is right now and if I voted on that, it would be purely a partisan knee-jerk decision rather than an informed vote.

 

[DesertPT]

But these campaigns are happening. There are campaigns and projects to encourage minority kids to stay in school. There are people and foundations working on these issues as we speak. There are people of color who are working every day to improve their communities through grassroot campaigns - I've worked with them, I've seen them, and I think it's a disservice to them to act as if they don't exist.

Obviously I know that these campaigns are out there, I didn't say that they don't exist. I was just giving an example of how something more productive than acting pissed and using a lot of hashtags could be done.

Tell me this: If some law students said that they wanted their finals postponed because there was an event going on for one of these campaigns you mention, and they wanted to go participate, do you think the school would agree to that?

I can almost guarantee you they wouldn't. But if a bunch of students who want more time to study say that they need to go cry racism during finals week because they have been traumatized by what's going on in the news, then the school is more than happy to oblige.

 

[ridethecliche]

Were you born and raised here? If you were then you would know that law used to be a respectable profession and whole classes of law students postponing their final exams so that they could cry racism would have been unacceptable.

Or maybe they found a bs excuse to get more time to study...

I wasn't, which is why I was asking the questions. More americans that are immigrants seem to be aware of these situations than americans that were born here in my n=1 experience. Perhaps it's because the america we learn about is so different than the america we experience that we're drawn to question more things around us.

As an indian that moved stateside right before 9/11, I've done a fair share of questioning.

The postponing of final exams is nothing new. Law schools did it during vietnam era protests as well.

"The Harvard coalition, which includes a range of minority student groups, said the law school delayed exams in 1970 for students who participated in protests against the Vietnam War, and has policies in place for students who have personal emergencies that interfere with exams."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...l-emergency/Y57bkeocKzqG65T8vXrMtM/story.html

Again, it's really easy to have these grandiose beliefs about what things used to be if you chose to entirely ignore precedents, no?

People in our age demographic are pretty notorious for being inactive in local politics. Makes sense when you figure that, while in educational programs, people are often from out of state or don't necessarily plan to live there long-term.

It's still not a good thing, of course.

A lot of people don't vote because they've lost faith in the political process. Both sides of our two party system are so dirty that there are few real differences. I'm not entirely sure I agree, but I can see why they think that way.

Hell, corporations have people rights!

And political donations can be untraceable.

People on both sides have so many conflicts of interest that are undisclosed since it's not really necessary to do so that it's really picking between elephant crap and donkey crap. At the end of the day...it's all crap.

You all missed the point of my post entirely. I don't disagree with the comments responding to it, because that was not my point. Pretty much everything that anyone says over the internet is subject to misinterpretation.

You were stating that protesting and getting a message out is slacktivism apparently.

I think it isn't further from the truth. More people are talking about this and participating in it than in a long time. I'd argue that law students SHOULD protest about legal issues they care about. They see this as the failure of the judicial system. I'd have to agree. But it's a system that they want to fix and work on. Not sure why that's silly to you.

The end goal of activism is change. Again, working towards change and protesting to get attention for change are not mutually exclusive. Many of the people coming together have long standing relationships with the community they're from, many in support roles.

You seem to think that this is all people are doing. That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[radkat101]

I wasn't, which is why I was asking the questions. More americans that are immigrants seem to be aware of these situations than americans that were born here in my n=1 experience. Perhaps it's because the america we learn about is so different than the america we experience that we're drawn to question more things around us.

As an indian that moved stateside right before 9/11, I've done a fair share of questioning.

The postponing of final exams is nothing new. Law schools did it during vietnam era protests as well.

"The Harvard coalition, which includes a range of minority student groups, said the law school delayed exams in 1970 for students who participated in protests against the Vietnam War, and has policies in place for students who have personal emergencies that interfere with exams."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...l-emergency/Y57bkeocKzqG65T8vXrMtM/story.html

Again, it's really easy to have these grandiose beliefs about what things used to be if you chose to entirely ignore precedents, no?

As an immigrant yourself, can you explain why so many immigrants legal/illegal are able to cross our borders with ABSOLUTELY nothing in pocket and yet manage to assimilate peacefully into our society with no safety net, and no support from programs established to promote at least some form social mobility, but communities that have all these resources available to them continue to fester in violence and poverty? At what point do people start taking at least SOME responsibility for their situation?

 

[mehc012]

I wasn't, which is why I was asking the questions. More americans that are immigrants seem to be aware of these situations than americans that were born here in my n=1 experience. Perhaps it's because the america we learn about is so different than the america we experience that we're drawn to question more things around us.

As an indian that moved stateside right before 9/11, I've done a fair share of questioning.

The postponing of final exams is nothing new. Law schools did it during vietnam era protests as well.

"The Harvard coalition, which includes a range of minority student groups, said the law school delayed exams in 1970 for students who participated in protests against the Vietnam War, and has policies in place for students who have personal emergencies that interfere with exams."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...l-emergency/Y57bkeocKzqG65T8vXrMtM/story.html

Again, it's really easy to have these grandiose beliefs about what things used to be if you chose to entirely ignore precedents, no?



A lot of people don't vote because they've lost faith in the political process. Both sides of our two party system are so dirty that there are few real differences. I'm not entirely sure I agree, but I can see why they think that way.

Hell, corporations have people rights!

And political donations can be untraceable.

People on both sides have so many conflicts of interest that are undisclosed since it's not really necessary to do so that it's really picking between elephant crap and donkey crap. At the end of the day...it's all crap.

It's also a way for the school to show some slight semblance of support without making any overt political statements. It's a subtle sense of "we support the students' efforts in this movement."

 

[ridethecliche]

As an immigrant yourself, can you explain why so many immigrants legal/illegal are able to cross our borders with ABSOLUTELY nothing in pocket and yet manage to assimilate peacefully into our society with no safety net, and no support from programs established to promote at least some form social mobility, but communities that have all these resources available to them continue to fester in violence and poverty? At what point do people start taking at least SOME responsibility for their situation?

Do you ask your token black friend about why people of their race couldn't be more like them as well?

Clearly my experience speaks for all immigrants right?

Lets start with people taking responsibility for situations. Lets start with white people acknowledging that a crap ton of american institutions weren't built for people of color and that segregation and ghetto-ification of parts of american cities were orchestrated by white people. That 'race riots' were commonplace not too long ago and when it was white men that looted, started fires, and killed innocent black civilians that they were hailed as heroes and not called thugs.

Yes. Lets start talking about taking responsibility for actions. I'm ready. Are you?

 

[mehc012]

As an immigrant yourself, can you explain why so many immigrants legal/illegal are able to cross our borders with ABSOLUTELY nothing in pocket and yet manage to assimilate peacefully into our society with no safety net, and no support from programs established to promote at least some form social mobility, but communities that have all these resources available to them continue to fester in violence and poverty? At what point do people start taking at least SOME responsibility for their situation?

A lot of it is also cultural. Having grown up in a town with a fairly transparent level of active racism, there was definitely a component of "we are defined as xyz, and the people who treat us like dirt claimed abc for themselves. Screw abc, I don't want to be like those @$$holes"
At some point, right or wrong, even the negative stereotypes and disadvantages become adopted by the group itself as a part of the cultural identity. People can definitely face backlash from rejecting those aspects.

This is how you see people being called 'oreo' or being told they 'talk white' - when what they really mean is 'use proper grammar' - as an insult. This is when you see people who feel that trying to better themselves is in some way distancing themselves from their community and instead choosing to stand alone on the same side of the aisle as those who treat their families and childhood friends like crap.

That's not to say that it is right, or that we shouldn't be trying to move past this...but it is a lot more complicated than the direct effects of discrimination. People's behavior and their own expectations for themselves are affected by how they are treated and are probably the biggest influences on their futures.

 

[Siggy]

I know I shouldn't open this can of worms, but what are these protests suppose to accomplish? Are police officers that are put in difficult situations really the main source of plight in black America? Are they protesting the lack if indictment of these individuals despite the fact that there is no legal ground to do so? Or is it just a general feeling of prejudice against aa's that may or may not have played a role in these recent deaths? To me, the only valid reason is the latter - and even still, I find these protests somewhat disrespectful to police officers that put their life at risk on a daily basis. I don't think it makes me racist to say that..

Shhh... how dare you let facts stop this pre-med smug factory?

 

[mehc012]

Shhh... how dare you let facts stop this pre-med smug factory?

Right, because nobody actually listened to that post and responded 🙄