Doctivism---Is it the new normal?

[radkat101]

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A lot of it is also cultural. Having grown up in a town with a fairly transparent level of active racism, there was definitely a component of "we are defined as xyz, and the people who treat us like dirt claimed abc for themselves. Screw abc, I don't want to be like those @$$holes"
At some point, right or wrong, even the negative stereotypes and disadvantages become adopted by the group itself as a part of the cultural identity. People can definitely face backlash from rejecting those aspects.

This is how you see people being called 'oreo' or being told they 'talk white' - when what they really mean is 'use proper grammar' - as an insult. This is when you see people who feel that trying to better themselves is in some way distancing themselves from their community and instead choosing to stand alone on the same side of the aisle as those who treat their families and childhood friends like crap.

That's not to say that it is right, or that we shouldn't be trying to move past this...but it is a lot more complicated than the direct effects of discrimination. People's behavior and their own expectations for themselves are affected by how they are treated and are probably the biggest influences on their futures.

I agree with this point 100%. The entire point I'm trying to make is that this is becoming less of a race war and very much a culture clash. Unfortunately "black culture" is being perceived more and more by the average american as sagging pants, violence, and thuggery. I'm not saying this is right, but it frustrates me to no end that the black community isn't crying out against this type of behavior and making it their #1 priority to stop before it gets so out of control and becomes irreversibly engrained in American's minds as being legitimate culture. If changes don't happen from within these communities, then what more can the rest of American society do? Black "culture" didn't used to be anything like this! How are we supposed to discuss the nuances of race relations if this big fat elephant continues to sit in the room that nobody is willing to discuss because of PC.

 

[mehc012]

I agree with this point 100%. The entire point I'm trying to make is that this is becoming less of a race war and very much a culture clash. Unfortunately "black culture" is being perceived more and more by the average american as sagging pants, violence, and thuggery. I'm not saying this is right, but it frustrates me to no end that the black community isn't crying out against this type of behavior and making it their #1 priority to stop before it gets so out of control and becomes irreversibly engrained in American's minds as being legitimate culture. If changes don't happen from within these communities, then what more can the rest of American society do? Black "culture" didn't used to be anything like this! How are we supposed to discuss the nuances of race relations if this big fat elephant continues to sit in the room that nobody is willing to discuss because of PC.

I feel as if these issues are imposed by external discrimination and then perpetuated by the community, though. If the 'other' isn't a group of people who routinely treat your community like crap and associate you with violence and lack of education, the pressure to band together and avoid that 'other' diminishes.

The solution starts with recognition by everybody that there is discrimination.

 

[radkat101]

I feel as if these issues are imposed by external discrimination and then perpetuated by the community, though. If the 'other' isn't a group of people who routinely treat your community like crap and associate you with violence and lack of education, the pressure to band together and avoid that 'other' diminishes.

The solution starts with recognition by everybody that there is discrimination.

Sure, but at some point it starts to feel like they're milking it for every thing it's worth. It goes both ways too. When I used to fill up for gas after school (my undergrad was in a very rough neighborhood of a very large city) I would go inside the convenience store to pay and had to wait until the whole place was empty because they would cut me in line as if I didn't exist. My friend was punched in the jaw at the same place for taking a pump that apparently didn't belong to him. The (white) cop made little effort to figure out who was responsible despite cameras everywhere and actually seemed to think it was kind of funny (I admit it kind of was, but also infuriating at the same time). My generation is NOT at ALL responsible for whatever they are grudging against, so why would I advocate for their cause if they are going to treat me this way? Despite my going into college feeling quite passionate about these types of issues, I left with little sympathy at all.

 

[mehc012]

Sure, but at some point it starts to feel like they're milking it for every thing it's worth. It goes both ways too. When I used to fill up for gas after school (my undergrad was in a very rough neighborhood of a very large city) I would go inside the convenience store to pay and had to wait until the whole place was empty because they would cut me in line as if I didn't exist. My friend was punched in the jaw at the same place for taking a pump that apparently didn't belong to him. The (white) cop made little effort to figure out who was responsible despite cameras everywhere and actually seemed to think it was kind of funny (I admit it kind of was, but also infuriating at the same time). My generation is NOT at ALL responsible for whatever they are grudging against, so why would I advocate for their cause if they are going to treat me this way? Despite my going into college feeling quite passionate about these types of issues, I left with little sympathy at all.

I think that the bolded is the point where we are never, ever, ever, ever going to agree. I neither agree with the first statement - you are a part of the overall community and culture of America as much as anyone else here, and there are plenty of injustices beyond the blatant historical ones - nor do I feel that the second half of the sentence is a reasonable response even if the first bit were true. As a bystander you may not actively participate in the crime, but that doesn't make it right to shrug your shoulders and walk away going "whatever, not my problem."

 

[Siggy]

Right, because nobody actually listened to that post and responded 🙄

Unfortunately the level of smug in the first page of this thread was overbearing... so while I'm sure that there was plenty of smug factory posts demonizing that post, I never got to them. Survival is important.

 

[Aloft085]

You've got to love threads where people that have been adults for a whopping 4-5 years make broad conclusions about life in America.

 

[ridethecliche]

Sure, but at some point it starts to feel like they're milking it for every thing it's worth. It goes both ways too. When I used to fill up for gas after school (my undergrad was in a very rough neighborhood of a very large city) I would go inside the convenience store to pay and had to wait until the whole place was empty because they would cut me in line as if I didn't exist. My friend was punched in the jaw at the same place for taking a pump that apparently didn't belong to him. The (white) cop made little effort to figure out who was responsible despite cameras everywhere and actually seemed to think it was kind of funny (I admit it kind of was, but also infuriating at the same time). My generation is NOT at ALL responsible for whatever they are grudging against, so why would I advocate for their cause if they are going to treat me this way? Despite my going into college feeling quite passionate about these types of issues, I left with little sympathy at all.

That's pretty much the definition of white privilege right there.

Okay, you're not responsible for it. Great. What are you doing to make sure that the disparities created by your parents/grandparents/great-grandparents/etc. actually have some sort of end. You are benefiting from a system of oppression that exists and was built by your ancestors (assuming that you're a white american that has roots of some sort here). The idea that you can see nothing wrong with it because you didn't make it so is part of what POC see as a problem.

No one is personally blaming the current generation of white americans for this problem. They are merely asking for acknowledgement that there are systems in place that have created disparities and continue to do so and asking for help to disentangle those system to make the country rooted in the equality it was founded on.

And justice for all.

You've got to love threads where people that have been adults for a whopping 4-5 years make broad conclusions about life in America.

Why don't you enlighten us? Or would you just prefer that we get off your yard while you lounge with your shotgun on your rocking chair?

 

[DesertPT]

You were stating that protesting and getting a message out is slacktivism apparently.

That is not what I was trying to state, but that is how you interpreted it.

 

[ridethecliche]

That is not what I was trying to state, but that is how you interpreted it.

The rest of your point was that it's better to actually do something about it right? My point is that activism is doing something about it and these things are all happening in parallel.

You were advocating actually doing something meaningful correct? Are you defining the current activism as not meaningful? That's what I took away from it. If I interpreted incorrectly then please expound.

 

[mehc012]

Unfortunately the level of smug in the first page of this thread was overbearing... so while I'm sure that there was plenty of smug factory posts demonizing that post, I never got to them. Survival is important.

 

[DesertPT]

More americans that are immigrants seem to be aware of these situations than americans that were born here in my n=1 experience.

Can't argue with that. There was a study a while back that made the rounds where a third of American citizens couldn't pass the naturalization civics test. Over 60% couldn't name on of their state's Senators. 75% could not describe the function of the judicial branch. A sad state of affairs indeed... 🙁

 

[DesertPT]

I agree with this point 100%. The entire point I'm trying to make is that this is becoming less of a race war and very much a culture clash. Unfortunately "black culture" is being perceived more and more by the average american as sagging pants, violence, and thuggery. I'm not saying this is right, but it frustrates me to no end that the black community isn't crying out against this type of behavior and making it their #1 priority to stop before it gets so out of control and becomes irreversibly engrained in American's minds as being legitimate culture. If changes don't happen from within these communities, then what more can the rest of American society do? Black "culture" didn't used to be anything like this! How are we supposed to discuss the nuances of race relations if this big fat elephant continues to sit in the room that nobody is willing to discuss because of PC.

👍 👍

This is actually the point I was trying to make originally. Though I stand by what I said, my thoughts did not come out of my head as logically as this. Agree 100%.

 

[Siggy]

Let's answer some questions for everyone.

1. No. Physicians do not have a moral duty to do "doctivism." More important to that question is that physicians (being one myself, I kinda of know quite a few physicians) have a variety of views. So... which view becomes the "proper" view to do "doctivism" for?

2. "Die ins" have just about as much power as "#kony2012"

 

[KnuxNole]

You're right.
Holding up signs and doing a maneuver "Hands Up Don't Shoot" when the grand jury testimony has thoroughly debunked this story, speaks very well on Pritzker students. Just what I want - a doctor who acts on emotion rather than evidence.

They all look very determined and proud though. I'm sure a good chunk are on SDN. I think the people who weren't there are the ones in the pre-allo and allo threads 😛

 

[radkat101]

.

 

[DesertPT]

The rest of your point was that it's better to actually do something about it right? My point is that activism is doing something about it and these things are all happening in parallel.

You were advocating actually doing something meaningful correct? Are you defining the current activism as not meaningful? That's what I took away from it. If I interpreted incorrectly then please expound.

I absolutely consider activism meaningful. Once again, I never said it wasn't. Note that people like MLK were activists who were also doers, not just big talkers and big Facebookers.

I absolutely do not consider the current "hands up don't shoot" and "I can't breath" campaigns meaningful activism. They are divisive and those that are participating in them show a high degree of either ignorance or unwillingness to engage in legitimate discussion. Why should I be ok with people who label all cops unanimously racist in an effort to preach against racism?

 

[KnuxNole]

F***, I'd say about only 20% of the residents in my program even voted last month.

I didn't vote *runs away*.

 

[DesertPT]

You are benefiting from a system of oppression that exists and was built by your ancestors (assuming that you're a white american that has roots of some sort here).

While I agree that this can sometimes be true, when a black med school applicant with >3.8 GPA has to get a 27 on the MCAT to have a >90% chance of getting accepted, and a white med school applicant with >3.8 GPA has to get a 39 on the MCAT to stand the same chances of acceptance, I don't think you can really say this is always the case. The same goes for scholarship monies and lots of other things. Minorities benefit from affirmative action strategies all the time.

 

[ridethecliche]

I agree with this point 100%. The entire point I'm trying to make is that this is becoming less of a race war and very much a culture clash. Unfortunately "black culture" is being perceived more and more by the average american as sagging pants, violence, and thuggery. I'm not saying this is right, but it frustrates me to no end that the black community isn't crying out against this type of behavior and making it their #1 priority to stop before it gets so out of control and becomes irreversibly engrained in American's minds as being legitimate culture. If changes don't happen from within these communities, then what more can the rest of American society do? Black "culture" didn't used to be anything like this! How are we supposed to discuss the nuances of race relations if this big fat elephant continues to sit in the room that nobody is willing to discuss because of PC.

👍 👍

This is actually the point I was trying to make originally. Though I stand by what I said, my thoughts did not come out of my head as logically as this. Agree 100%.

Lets take that post apart a bit then, shall we?

There was a post I saw somewhere that essentially said something like: “It’s too bad our society does not like black people as it much as it loves black culture.” Think about that. Think of sports. Music. Movies. Comedy. All of that. There is so much black culture there. People don't hate black culture, they consume it!

Radkat just described black culture as thuggery. Who did the original race riots? Why were those people not called thugs or anything similar? They were celebrated. Hello double standards!

The black community didn't create this mess. What does radkat mean by 'black culture didn't used to be anything like this"? Yeah, black citizenry used to be considered second class or worse, not too long ago. You can't just erase history because it's convenient to you. Blacks were called thugs even in MLK's day. The march from ferguson to the statehouse was met with people shooting out the windows of busses and cursing racial epithets at marchers. Tell me exactly how white society has changed in the last few decades? Just because it's cleaner on paper doesn't mean it's any different in reality.

Seriously, it's such an American idea to create a gigantic mess and walk away from it saying "welp, we're not doing it now so fix it yourselves".

I absolutely consider activism meaningful. Once again, I never said it wasn't. Note that people like MLK were activists who were also doers, not just big talkers and big Facebookers.

I absolutely do not consider the current "hands up don't shoot" and "I can't breath" campaigns meaningful activism. They are divisive and those that are participating in them show a high degree of either ignorance or unwillingness to engage in legitimate discussion. Why should I be ok with people who label all cops unanimously racist in an effort to preach against racism.

No one has said that at all. Saying that the police force has discriminatory policies and enforcement is not the same as calling all cops racist. You missed the point. Big time.

While I agree that this can sometimes be true, when a black med school applicant with >3.8 GPA has to get a 27 on the MCAT to have a >90% chance of getting accepted, and a white med school applicant with >3.8 GPA has to get a 39 on the MCAT to stand the same chances of acceptance, I don't think you can really say this is always case. The same goes for scholarship monies and lots of other things. Minorities benefit from affirmative action strategies all the time.

Why are those policies in place, pray tell? Perhaps it's because black folk have reason not to trust white doctors when things like tuskegee were happening as recently as 1972. Representation is important.

This naive anti-AA claim reeks of nothing more than entitlement and lack of knowledge.

Tell me more about how an inner city black kid that got those scores given challenges faced by their family is less deserving of an education because they didn't come from a rich white family that hired a tutor to get johnny's HS grades from a A- to an A+ at every opportunity. Didn't have the same connections for college and graduate school and prep work.

Lets talk about role models. Lets talk about how teachers give white students a pass far more than black students. Lets talk about how incredible schools that teach primarily black students are. Lets talk about how tax structures are structured so the worst teachers go to those schools.

And yes, lets talk about how badly those black kids getting into med school with stats lower than white kids wish that things were different so that there wouldn't be a need for those policies to begin with.

Tell me how affirmative action makes up for centuries of disenfranchisement. Tell me. Go on. I'm waiting.

 

[DesertPT]

No one has said that at all. Saying that the police force has discriminatory policies and enforcement is not the same as calling all cops racist. You missed the point. Big time.

So you seriously consider the "hands up don't shoot" and "I can't breath" fads to be meaningful activism?

 

[ridethecliche]

So you seriously consider the "hands up don't shoot" and "I can't breath" fads to be meaningful activism?

I mean, they're just a fad to you, but have you been following how much attention they're getting in the media? How much has been written about police brutality lately?

I mean, you can call them a fad. They're not real to you. To an entire race of americans, they are every day existence. The fact that you can't grasp this shows just how far removed you are from that reality. You can choose to ignore it, but they can't. That is what privilege is.

I have black friends in new york that went to amazing schools, have amazing jobs, but they still get stopped and frisked on a repeated basis just for being black. They're wearing jeans and a sweatshirt. Guilty of being AWB: alive while black.

Have you seen how many people are out in the streets during those 'fad' protests?

Black americans aren't born 'hating' cops. They start to distrust the police when they realize that they're constantly being watched and stopped and accused of doing things just because they happen to be black. Go read a police forum and see how officers talk about black men. The language is tainted from the get go.

What many white people don't understand is that they way they see the world is shaped by their experiences, which is totally fine! What they miss is that the way other people see the world is also shaped by their experiences and those other experiences are vastly different. Often race is a part of the reason for the differential experience.

Seriously, I want to do a study looking at how people think about police after stratifying for income, education, and race of the person taking the survey. I have a feeling I know what the data will say, but I really want to know for sure. Perhaps that will finally lay this kind of question to rest.

But yes, it's just a fad. Nothing to see here folks.

Hands up. Shrug shoulders. Walk away.

 

[radkat101]

Lets take that post apart a bit then, shall we?

There was a post I saw somewhere that essentially said something like: “It’s too bad our society does not like black people as it much as it loves black culture.” Think about that. Think of sports. Music. Movies. Comedy. All of that. There is so much black culture there. People don't hate black culture, they consume it!

Radkat just described black culture as thuggery. Who did the original race riots? Why were those people not called thugs or anything similar? They were celebrated. Hello double standards!

The black community didn't create this mess. What does radkat mean by 'black culture didn't used to be anything like this"? Yeah, black citizenry used to be considered second class or worse, not too long ago. You can't just erase history because it's convenient to you. Blacks were called thugs even in MLK's day. The march from ferguson to the statehouse was met with people shooting out the windows of busses and cursing racial epithets at marchers. Tell me exactly how white society has changed in the last few decades? Just because it's cleaner on paper doesn't mean it's any different in reality.

Seriously, it's such an American idea to create a gigantic mess and walk away from it saying "welp, we're not doing it now so fix it yourselves".



No one has said that at all. Saying that the police force has discriminatory policies and enforcement is not the same as calling all cops racist. You missed the point. Big time.

1. I never described it as such. I said thats how many American's perceive it. You know...the ones whose perceptions we are trying to change?

2. The second bolded was NOT in reference to perceptions. This time it was in reference to how they ACTUALLY carried themselves. You know, all those peaceful protests? And actually conveying their grievances eloquently with language other than "hands up don't shoot!" while burning down their own communities. Oh, and this was all during a time when their condition was much much worse than it actually is today. They managed to get America on their side for REAL effective policy change. You're delusional if you think the same change is possible today without these communities doing some self reflection on their behavior.

 

[radkat101]

I mean, they're just a fad to you, but have you been following how much attention they're getting in the media? How much has been written about police brutality lately?

I mean, you can call them a fad. They're not real to you. To an entire race of americans, they are every day existence. The fact that you can't grasp this shows just how far removed you are from that reality. You can choose to ignore it, but they can't. That is what privilege is.

I have black friends in new york that went to amazing schools, have amazing jobs, but they still get stopped and frisked on a repeated basis just for being black. They're wearing jeans and a sweatshirt. Guilty of being AWB: alive while black.

Have you seen how many people are out in the streets during those 'fad' protests?

Black americans aren't born 'hating' cops. They start to distrust the police when they realize that they're constantly being watched and stopped and accused of doing things just because they happen to be black. Go read a police forum and see how officers talk about black men. The language is tainted from the get go.

But yes, it's just a fad. Nothing to see here folks.

Hands up. Shrug shoulders. Walk away.

Outside of your bubble, much of this attention is pretty negative. Look how many likes this video got.

 

[DesertPT]

Tell me more about how an inner city black kid that got those scores given challenges faced by their family is less deserving of an education because they didn't come from a rich white family that hired a tutor to get johnny's HS grades from a A- to an A+ at every opportunity. Didn't have the same connections for college and graduate school and prep work.

You tell me more about how an inner city white kid that got those scores given challenges faced by their family is less deserving of an education because they didn't come from a rich white family that hired a tutor to get johnny's HS grades from a A- to an A+ at every opportunity.

You responded as if I said something bad about affirmative action policies. Re-read my post and you will see that what I said was entirely neutral. You read way to much into what I am saying. All I was saying was that your claim that white people benefit by a system established by their ancestors, while blacks do not, is not always the case. Medical school admissions was simply an example. URM's are held to a lower standard in the admissions process. There are absolutely good reasons for those lower standards, but they are lower nonetheless.

 

[hellanutella]

@DermViser that was sloppy on my end and I deserved to be called out. There weren't even any references cited. These ones kosher? [x, x, x]

My generation is NOT at ALL responsible for whatever they are grudging against, so why would I advocate for their cause if they are going to treat me this way? Despite my going into college feeling quite passionate about these types of issues, I left with little sympathy at all.

-_____________-

And I quote:

Whites aren't murdering each other in mass numbers over powder cocaine and then blaming everyone else for their stupidity.

I wonder why marginalized communities hold a grudge? Maybe it's because of people making statements like the above?

You guys are missing the point: violence and "thuggery" (I detest that word) is not something unique to the black community, it's something that happens to impoverished, oppressed populations. It's what happens when you grow up surrounded by crime, with a perpetual (and not unfounded fear) of the government, and with no means of escaping. And -le gasp- it may or may not have an ethnic/racial basis. I grew up abroad in countries where other communities were tagged with the gross stereotypes you just attributed back culture (ex: violence, apathy, drug usage, etc)... see the Romani of Italy/Central Europe, the First Nations people of Canada, so on and so forth. None of these groups experienced disproportionate homicide rates, levels of illiteracy, and incarceration due to their culture. They faced these problems due to the long history of bigotry their nation had saddled them with. It takes a long time for marginalized groups to draw equal to their counterparts... and I'd hazard to say that there hasn't been a single case in history where 100% success has been achieved. It's a real problem. I don't know why people feel compelled to deny it or trot out the "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps so why can't you" routine.

When you've been trapped in a cycle of poverty and subjected to oppression at every level of your life, all thanks to your country's sordid legacy, it's hard to escape. I don't condone violence, not even the Ferguson razing and rioting, but you have to see where these people are coming from. Nobody's rioting/reacting because they're lazy and want to do away with cops. They're sick and tired of the hardships and sheer terror they're subjected to, through the recent Garner/Rice/Brown/etc. cases they've attracted the general public's eye... and now they've found the prime time to speak out.

Okay. Like most SDN threads, this is spiraling out of hand and I too am being sucked into it. It's pretty sad that now we've devolved to fighting over whether or not the black community is oppressed or not (spoiler alert: they are).

Yes, the die-ins have been sensationalized. "Hands up, don't shoot" and "I can't breathe" make for emotionally polarizing catchphrases. However, they're doing what they were designed to do, for better or for worse: to call attention to an issue. Look... we have 4 pages (and counting) of responses! Even if the dialogue has been tainted with bitterness (and even overt bigotry), it's a discussion we all need to have.

And for the last time: #blacklivesmatter is not vilifying all law enforcement personnel! It's about calling attention to racial disparities in all areas of society, including medicine.

 

[ridethecliche]

1. I never described it as such. I said thats how many American's perceive it. You know...the ones whose perceptions we are trying to change?

2. The second bolded was NOT in reference to perceptions. This time it was in reference to how they ACTUALLY carried themselves. You know, all those peaceful protests? And actually conveying their grievances eloquently with language other than "hands up don't shoot!" while burning down their own communities. Oh, and this was all during a time when their condition was much much worse than it actually is today. They managed to get America on their side for REAL effective policy change. You're delusional if you think the same change is possible today without these communities doing some self reflection on their behavior.

So you're saying that many american's have racist perceptions? Okay then.

Yeah. America is seriously on their side with effective policy change, which is why there's no structural racism at all. Of course! We're post racial. We have a black president!

Lets talk about what happens to brutal cops: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...nions-keep-abusive-cops-on-the-street/383258/

According to what I've read and been told by people at the protests, the majority of people getting physical with police were white and were escalating violence with police even though the black protesters were peaceful: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...arner_protests_some_whites_behaving_badly.php

Regarding the rest of your post, it doesn't really have much to do with the protests, but I think you should spread the message that black people should speak more eloquently if they want people to listen. That seems to work so well for Obama given all the racial stuff directed at him and he has that entire speaking properly thing down pretty well.

I'm also not sure what black on black violence has to do with police brutality. I'm not in the same rabbit hole you fell into apparently.

You tell me more about how an inner city white kid that got those scores given challenges faced by their family is less deserving of an education because they didn't come from a rich white family that hired a tutor to get johnny's HS grades from a A- to an A+ at every opportunity.

You responded as if I said something bad about affirmative action policies. Re-read my post and you will see that what I said was entirely neutral. You read way to much into what I am saying. All I was saying was that your claim that white people benefit by a system established by their ancestors, while blacks do not, is not always the case. Medical school admissions was simply an example. URM's are held to a lower standard in the admissions process. There are absolutely good reasons for those lower standards, but they are lower nonetheless.

O EM GEE. BLACKS GET A BENEFIT! RACISM IS OVERRRR!!!

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION MAKES EVERYTHING OKAY!

Affirmative action is a lousy band-aid to fit a catastrophic problem. While I support it, I think it does little to help in the greater landscape. But a little is still better than nothing I suppose.

Claiming that you were neutral in suggesting affirmative action as a benefit of being black is actually more of an insult than anything else. It's like saying that a family getting money for their kid getting shot by mistake by the cops is benefiting from the system.

 

[DermViser]

And for the last time: #blacklivesmatter is not vilifying all law enforcement personnel! It's about calling attention to racial disparities in all areas of society, including medicine.

It is when you only bring up the hashtag when a white cop kills a black person, but not when a black cop kills a black person. Black lives ONLY seem to matter enough to rev up people to protest, when white people kill them. If there are racial disparities in medicine, then would that make doctors racist? Think carefully before answering this question.

 

[DesertPT]

I mean, they're just a fad to you, but have you been following how much attention they're getting in the media? How much has been written about police brutality lately?

I mean, you can call them a fad. They're not real to you. To an entire race of americans, they are every day existence. The fact that you can't grasp this shows just how far removed you are from that reality. You can choose to ignore it, but they can't. That is what privilege is.

I have black friends in new york that went to amazing schools, have amazing jobs, but they still get stopped and frisked on a repeated basis just for being black. They're wearing jeans and a sweatshirt. Guilty of being AWB: alive while black.

Have you seen how many people are out in the streets during those 'fad' protests?

Black americans aren't born 'hating' cops. They start to distrust the police when they realize that they're constantly being watched and stopped and accused of doing things just because they happen to be black. Go read a police forum and see how officers talk about black men. The language is tainted from the get go.

What many white people don't understand is that they way they see the world is shaped by their experiences, which is totally fine! What they miss is that the way other people see the world is also shaped by their experiences and those other experiences are vastly different. Often race is a part of the reason for the differential experience.

Seriously, I want to do a study looking at how people think about police after stratifying for income, education, and race of the person taking the survey. I have a feeling I know what the data will say, but I really want to know for sure. Perhaps that will finally lay this kind of question to rest.

But yes, it's just a fad. Nothing to see here folks.

Hands up. Shrug shoulders. Walk away.

Most of this post was a big non-sequitur from what I was saying.

And I think it is a fad because by this time next year everyone will have long since forgotten about "hands up don't shoot" and "I can't breathe". Decades later, people are still talking about MLK.

 

[ridethecliche]

It is when you only bring up the hashtag when a white cop kills a black person, but not when a black cop kills a black person. Black lives ONLY seem to matter enough to rev up people to protest, when white people kill them. If there are racial disparities in medicine, then would that make doctors racist? Think carefully before answering this question.

Uh... an institution can be racist and practice racist policies. Just like a woman can enforce patriarchy, a black person wielding police power can enforce structural racism.

The question about doctors isn't even the same thing.

"Here, I'm going to give you a totally unrelated question because it's got nothing to do with anything and tangents are fun!"

Most of this post was a big non-sequitur from what I was saying.

And I think it is a fad because by this time next year everyone will have long since forgotten about "hands up don't shoot" and "I can't breathe". Decades later, people are still talking about MLK.

YOU will have forgotten. Some people in America will remember every single day for their rest of their lives because they thought this way before the recent events and will continue to think so in the future due to their experiences.

Saying that African Americans benefit from affirmative action is a joke and you know it.

You weren't saying anything of substance, so I decided to do so. It's all pretty related actually, just not really to your world view that wants to simply say that the system works as it should and there's no reason to change it. Which is exactly what a lot of people said in MLK's day. How did he die again, pray tell?

Care to take a crack at it again instead of calling something a non-sequitor and walking away.

"OH LOOK A STRAWMAN!"

 

[DermViser]

Uh... an institution can be racist and practice racist policies. Just like a woman can enforce patriarchy, a black person wielding police power can enforce structural racism.

Yeah, a black police officer is enforcing racism. Laws are racist constructs of the white man.

 

[DesertPT]

"Here, I'm going to give you a totally unrelated question because it's got nothing to do with anything and tangents are fun!"

This coming from this thread's king of tangents. 🙄

We can agree to disagree on some things. 🙂 Overall I do actually agree with a number of things you have said, but you twist everything I say around too much for that to be apparent.

 

[hellanutella]

It is when you only bring up the hashtag when a white cop kills a black person, but not when a black cop kills a black person. Black lives ONLY seem to matter enough to rev up people to protest, when white people kill them. If there are racial disparities in medicine, then would that make doctors racist? Think carefully before answering this question.

Absolutely. Medicine has a long and deplorable history of racism and misogyny. It would be foolish to think that the field is devoid of bigotry. (See here as physicians are more likely to give painkillers to white vs. black patients for similar complaints).

I saw it pleeeenty of times at work, whether it was conscious or unconscious. I don't think any field is immune. This is why it is so important to open up a dialogue and go "Hey, we have a problem here. What do we need to do to fix it?"

 

[ridethecliche]

Yeah, a black police officer is enforcing racism. Laws are racist constructs of the white man.

Yeah man, all those black writers of the constitution certainly had so much representation and still do to this day. You know like how gerrymandering really helps with black voter representation.

 

[DermViser]

If there are racial disparities in medicine, then would that make doctors racist? Think carefully before answering this question.

Absolutely. Medicine has a long and deplorable history of racism and misogyny. It would be foolish to think that the field is devoid of bigotry. (See here as physicians are more likely to give painkiller to white vs. black patients for similar complaints).

I saw it pleeeenty of times at work, whether it was conscious or unconscious. I don't think any field is immune. This is why it is so important to open up a dialogue and go "Hey, we have a problem here. What do we need to do to fix it?"

Then you are crazy, and based on your status, is not surprising. Racial disparities in medicine do not make physicians themselves racist.

 

[DesertPT]

...your world view that wants to simply say that the system works as it should and there's no reason to change it.

Ugh...for like the 10th time, I didn't say that. Thanks for the discussion, but I can't keep conversing with someone who refuses to stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[ridethecliche]

Then you are crazy, and based on your status, is not surprising. Racial disparities in medicine do not make physicians themselves racist.

Dude, you're failing so hard with the logic here.

Medicine has a history of treating black americans as test subjects. There's no racism in there at all is there?

Tuskegee was for funzies!

Ugh...for like the 10th time, I didn't say that. Thanks for the discussion, but I can't keep conversing with someone who refuses to stop putting words in my mouth.

Oy sorry. Got a little carried away with the hyperbole there.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah man, all those black writers of the constitution certainly had so much representation and still do to this day. You know like how gerrymandering really helps with black voter representation.

You're right, bc Democrats NEVER gerrymander their districts right? Just look at Illinois, when it comes to gerrymandering based on racial constituencies. Great line about the Constitution considering how little you actually care about what the document says when it doesn't fit your ideology.

 

[DermViser]

Ugh...for like the 10th time, I didn't say that. Thanks for the discussion, but I can't keep conversing with someone who refuses to stop putting words in my mouth.

She has a consistent habit of doing that. It's a Boston thing.

 

[ridethecliche]

You're right, bc Democrats NEVER gerrymander their districts right? Just look at Illinois, when it comes to gerrymandering based on racial constituencies. Great line about the Constitution considering how little you actually care about what the document says when it doesn't fit your ideology.

I never said anything about saying it was right when democrats did it either. I actually posted earlier today about how both parties are pretty much equally corrupt.

 

[ridethecliche]

She has a consistent habit of doing that. It's a Boston thing.

Why am I a chick to you still? Because I disagree and think differently than you?

This is the third time I've corrected you on this. I mean... I'm honored you think so but it's incorrect. For the record anyway.

 

[DermViser]

Dude, you're failing so hard with the logic here.

Medicine has a history of treating black americans as test subjects. There's no racism in there at all is there?

Tuskegee was for funzies!

No one is talking about history. Great strawman though.

 

[DesertPT]

She has a consistent habit of doing that. It's a Boston thing.

I am learning to step with greater trepidation on the occasions that I accidentally wander into pre-allo...

 

[DermViser]

I never said anything about saying it was right when democrats did it either. I actually posted earlier today about how both parties are pretty much equally corrupt.

Right. You only condemn it when one side does it. If the other side says it, you don't say anything.

 

[DermViser]

I am learning to step with greater trepidation on the occasions that I accidentally wander into pre-allo...

There's a reason most in Allo don't come into Pre-Allo anymore to give advice or otherwise and any threads by premeds started in Allo get moved. Exhibit A, B, etc. here.

 

[ridethecliche]

No one is talking about history. Great strawman though.

Of course not. History has nothing to do with anything ever. Racial disparities in medicine just magically happened and came from nowhere.

That trial was carried out by a governmental body responsible for public health. That obviously has nothing to do with medicine.

Right. You only condemn it when one side does it. If the other side says it, you don't say anything.

I didn't name a political party in my post. Want to read it again?

 

[WingedOx]

You're right, bc Democrats NEVER gerrymander their districts right? Just look at Illinois, when it comes to gerrymandering based on racial constituencies. Great line about the Constitution considering how little you actually care about what the document says when it doesn't fit your ideology.

To be entirely fair, most of the districts in IL like IL-4 (the most gerrymandered district in the country) were created in response to the civil rights act mandate.

/now the Chicago city council maps... Jesus Christ they're crooked. I miss living in Chicago, but I don't miss the dirty politics.

 

[DermViser]

Of course not. History has nothing to do with anything ever. Racial disparities in medicine just magically happened and came from nowhere.

Didn't say it did, but it wasn't brouht up or discussed. Nice to see you wish to join a racist profession.

I didn't name a political party in my post. Want to read it again?

I didn't either. Might want to read your sentence again about when you get flummoxed about gerrymandering.

 

[DesertPT]

There's a reason most in Allo don't come into Pre-Allo anymore and any threads by premeds started in Allo get moved.

Yeesh...the worst pre-PT gets is "I know this has been answered in detail in 1500 other threads, but how do I go about setting up observation hours with a PT?". Pre-allo puts us to shame...is there such a thing as greater weakness in numbers? lol

 

[DermViser]

To be entirely fair, most of the districts in IL like IL-4 (the most gerrymandered district in the country) were created in response to the civil rights act mandate.

/now the Chicago city council maps... Jesus Christ they're crooked. I miss living in Chicago, but I don't miss the dirty politics.

Yup, 4th congressional district of Illinois was exactly what I was referring to. But that's perfectly ok for some who complain about gerrymandering.

 

[DesertPT]

Why am I a chick to you still? Because I disagree and think differently than you?

This is the third time I've corrected you on this. I mean... I'm honored you think so but it's incorrect. For the record anyway.

😆