Doctors--High IQ or better interpersonally?

[jgl1980]

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learning disabled and ocd? im not gonna lie, i dont want the fellow as my doc. understanding and life dont go hand in hand here

Let me fist state that I believe that IQ tests are really stupid. And for you all that think I am saying this because I scored low, well you are wrong! I have taken many of these "intelligence" tests and there is absolutely no way it can tell you someone’s mental capacity. The whole idea of an IQ is absurd and if you don't believe me do a little research on the history of IQ then make your own judgment. It is actually quite amusing. To date scientists cannot formulate one common definition for intelligence. So who makes a better doctor a caring doc or a smart doc? Well let’s look at this; today the medical profession is a business (much to my displeasure but that would be a topic for another thread). In a business you have to satisfy the customer, the patient. The "smart" doc is not caring so he would not provide the patient with a pleasurable experience but cures the patient. The patient is happy with the results but hated the experience he/she had and decides for his/her next life threatening illness that he/she will take their business elsewhere. The doc is a good doc but goes hungry, can support his family and gets everything taken away because he could not pay back his loans. So he is not a very successful doc. So you do need some level of sensitivity.

OUT

Intelligence, we don't know what it is..... but it's measurable.

 

[LuvlyMom]

i've been told you get dumber after you get into med school

This is logical. The same amount of info you shove in, also gets shoved out. Common sense is usually one of the first things to go.

 

[aliendroid]

Hey there,
I can tell you that IQ is meaningless when it comes to having a high GPA and MCAT score. I went into medical school with a very high GPA and MCAT score (got into six out of the six schools that I applied to) but I have never scored more than 100 on any IQ test. Iin fact, most of the time, I scored between 95 and 100 on the IQ tests. I am a very good student (did very well in medical school full-ride scholarship and AOA) and matched into a good residency program. At no time did my lack of IQ hinder my progress in graduate school, medical school or now as a practicing physician.

I saw many folks at my medical school with very high IQs who did not do as well as I was able to do. Again, I attribute my success to being a very good student who is able to learn very easily. I am also very adaptable in my practice and I communicate very well with my patients. I tend to have many patients who seek out my care.

Hard work and study can more than make up for lack of IQ. There is some talent involved in being able to practice medicine. It is a bit like playing tennis in that there is some strategy, some talent and some luck.

nbjmd 🙂

The IQ test is not meaningless to 95% of the people that take it. It is very valid and does correlate to how well you will function cognitively in this society. For the other 5% the IQ test is not good for you because you have a learning disability that impairs you from expressing your true IQ. Perhaps this concept is foreign to you and maybe you can learn from this rather than bashing the IQ test just because you couldn’t score high. If someone is blind, they will not be able to write the test properly. If someone has dyslexia or is deaf, or can’t speak the language of the administered test they will not do well. Everyone has a theoretical (max) IQ and an expressed IQ. Most of the time you are within a few points of your max IQ. Some people are not able to express their IQ on the test, however that does not discredit it from the rest of us who can.

Let's add another topic of debate.

Would you prefer an average looking doctor that didn't distract you or a really hot one that you couldn't keep your eyes off?

 

[hopefulneuro]

I can appreciate the argument you are trying to make as many people agree with you. However, here are some of the reasons I did not find your essay convincing. 🙂

Let me fist state that I believe that IQ tests are really stupid.

1.) Interesting opening. Definitely lets your audience know where you stand, but is it the most effective way of starting a persuasive piece?

And for you all that think I am saying this because I scored low, well you are wrong! I have taken many of these "intelligence" tests and there is absolutely no way it can tell you someone’s mental capacity.

2.) Which tests have you taken and what were your scores? How many is "many"?

The whole idea of an IQ is absurd and if you don't believe me do a little research on the history of IQ then make your own judgment.

3.) Please cite the studies you are referring to. It makes your argument stronger and is helpful to your readers.

To date scientists cannot formulate one common definition for intelligence.

4.) According to Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia, psychologists have indeed come up with many definitions of IQ, which were blended into the current understanding of it as listed here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ

Well let’s look at this; today the medical profession is a business.

5.) "According to historians, the term business referred to activities or interests. By extension the word became (as recently as the 18th century) synonymous with an individual commercial enterprise. It has also taken on the more general meaning of a nexus of commercial activities."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business Thus, it is not the profession that makes it a business, it is the people who pay for those goods and services.

In a business you have to satisfy the customer, the patient.

6.) Good point.

The "smart" doc is not caring so he would not provide the patient with a pleasurable experience but cures the patient.

7.) No one said smartness rules out concern. And it seems unlikely that a patient is going to have a pleasurable experience in the hospital.

The patient is happy with the results but hated the experience he/she had and decides for his/her next life threatening illness that he/she will take their business elsewhere.

8.) I have nothing to substantiate this, but I imagine a patient with a life-threatening illness who is cured will like the doctor no matter his/her personality. Being sick really endears one to those who provide relief.

The doc is a good doc but goes hungry, can support his family and gets everything taken away because he could not pay back his loans. So he is not a very successful doc. So you do need some level of sensitivity.

9.) LOL> this part is obviously in jest. But even still, you make a number of assumptions. You assume a limited supply of severely ill people. There is a continual influx of injured/dying people. You also assume the doctor treats the same people over and over. The doctor does not need to maintain relationships with the patient (this is arguable depending upon his/her specialty) since, as the patient was cured of the first affliction, it is impossible for the patient to have the same problem again (by definition of being cured). This means that the patient will go see another specialist anyway. It is also notable that even if the patient is unhappy with the doc's personality, the doctor collects his fee and does not need to worry about malpractice suits since he/she did the job perfectly. Given that he/she gets paid no matter what, he/she will not go hungry from that alone (he/she might if his/her expenses outweigh his/her income). You also assume that the doctor's only source of revenue is from salary. Perhaps the doctor diversified into mutual funds or real estate. Maybe even antiques or art. Thus it cannot be known if he/she will not be able to pay back the student loans (this rests on another assumption that the doctor was not MSTP or an excellent student at a state school or a talented URM, all of whom got full rides). So he/she will still be considered successful, and sensitivity is proven to be superfluous in putting food on the table.

But...do I agree with you? Yes. Sensitivity is extremely important. But intelligence is better. 👍

 

[Shredder]

The "smart" doc is not caring so he would not provide the patient with a pleasurable experience but cures the patient. The patient is happy with the results but hated the experience he/she had and decides for his/her next life threatening illness that he/she will take their business elsewhere. The doc is a good doc but goes hungry, can support his family and gets everything taken away because he could not pay back his loans. So he is not a very successful doc. So you do need some level of sensitivity.

smartest doc cures patient and feigns sensitivity+concern to reap maximum profit. do you think salesmen or customer service reps have genuine concern for how happy you are with your product or service? what difference does it make to them? any street smart doc would know to make patients feel warm and fuzzy along with their pills, so that they will continue to rack up bills. the invisible hand is never wrong! so sensitivity and whatnot is overrated. a good, conniving person can always fake it and everyone will still be as well off.

 

[scrubs junkie]

I

am very interested in finding out whether it is better for a physician to be smart (IQ-wise) or to be emotionally intelligent. <snip>


Post your thoughts on the issue. Maybe someone will have an enlightening post!

Hi, Hopefulneuro.

In this, as in so many aspects of life, it's most important to seek balance. I think the critical balance varies with specialty. A pediatrician, for example, would need lots of "EQ", but also has to be smart and intuitive enough to interpret his often less than articulate patients' communications. A surgeon needs more manual dexterity and the ability to quickly judge what she sees during surgery or a consult. For surgeons, bedside manner isn't as important as for some other specialties - but they should have some.

One thing you didn't mention is that there are plenty of doctors who are cold, impersonal, and emotionally screwed up, and mediocre doctors as well. In fact I'd tend to think that the worst offenders are in this category. I wonder why people mistake coldness and remoteness for brilliance? The doctor who missed Redclover's sister's dosage level (post # 16) obviously wasn't that brilliant. I'm sure he was good at the things you need to become head of a neurology department, but unless you know enough to listen to patients, you're not acting in an intelligent way.

A high IQ score is reason for hope - it indicates ability and promise. However, it doesn't guarantee success. A lower score isn't reason for despair, because testing doesn't always work. I seriously doubt that standardized testing can reliably measure real intelligence. There are so many variables contributing to why IQ scores are what they are that when they are low, I consider them unreliable.

So: if I had to choose from two doctors, one warm and fuzzy but average, and the other cold and brilliant, I'd probably go with cold and brilliant. Not cold and dumb, mind you, they'd have to actually have some brains under the hood! 😎

Cheers,


Scrubs Junkie

 

[gary5]

You have to have both. This is a flawed question. If you have a high IQ and no interpersonal skills, you can always be a surgeon, though. That's often how they are.

 

[xylem29]

I would say it depends on what specialty you are in.

I would vote 1 for any specialty where there is minimal patient contact. And 2 for ones where there is extensive patient contact.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Hi, Hopefulneuro.

Hint

When you reply to an ancient post by someone who hasn't posted in over a year, it is unlikely that they will see what you wrote. You can avoid this pitfall by replying to posts in the first 2-3 (or 10 even) pages of posts.

 

[mdm2fly]

bring in a clown to build rapport and make patients feel at ease

Gesundheit!

 

[Vvandenn]

Hint

When you reply to an ancient post by someone who hasn't posted in over a year, it is unlikely that they will see what you wrote. You can avoid this pitfall by replying to posts in the first 2-3 (or 10 even) pages of posts.

LOL

 

[Knockout Mouse]

Don't make the mistake of assuming a high IQ and lots of education make you a good clinical decision maker. There have been several studies that have shown that the ability to accuratly assess a situation and take the required actions are more linked to certain personality traits rather than IQ or knowledge.

I know several people who were "super brilliant" A avg. students that consistantly make bad decisions once they enter the real world.

Not saying that IQ and knowledge arn't required to be a good doctor, I'm just saying that after a certain point they don't contribute as much to success as you think.

 

[MidwestFM]

There's one thing that hasn't been added to this discussion. Knowledge base and good communication are important, but much more important to me is diligence. I want my doctor to take the extra time to find the answers he/she doesn't know.

 

[Lokhtar]

You probably get sued less being nice, but you probably cure more being smart. So former is better for your clinical career, latter is better if you're an academic physician heavy into research.

 

[MilkmanAl]

If we're equating high IQ with technical skill, then yeah, IQ, no question. That's not a valid link to make, however.

 

[Anotherface]

I believe intelligence and diagnostic abilities are most necessary. Remember that good intentions and a warm heart will only get you so far? Not even the nicest person in the world can guarantee that you have a successful heart surgery if they dumb as a rock. A doctor that can diagnose is great and a doctor that can do diagnose and is still personable is even better.

 

[shindotp]

You people who chose "making patients feel at ease" over "nearly perfect diagnostic ability" are a bunch of idiots.

Their LIVES are more important than whether or not they feel at ease for a few hours/days.

 

[Anotherface]

You people who chose "making patients feel at ease" over "nearly perfect diagnostic ability" are a bunch of idiots.

Their LIVES are more important than whether or not they feel at ease for a few hours/days.

They are idiots because they disagree with you...I see.🙄

 

[Red Leader]

Intelligence =/= anti-social

But seriously, why would you go to a doctor to "feel at ease" instead of getting the best medical care? Yet another example of backwards thinking plaguing our country.

 

[shindotp]

They are idiots because they disagree with you...I see.🙄

Yes.

 

[Charles English]

this poll started in 2005. nice dig-up. i voted with the majority it seems. in the end, i don't care if i like my doctor...just that s/he knows how to make it all better.


if, however, i had a terminal illness and saw a physician regularly i would want that person to be real high on the EQ and not an a$*. in that case it doesn't matter if s/he can't diagnose or treat their way out of a colostomy bag...i'm dead anyway. i'll just want someone to talk to. but if i'm salvageable, by all means get me Dr. House