Does a bad MCAT mean you can't be a good doctor?

[AnaMaria777]

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Is 'your friend' named AnaMaria777?

The MCAT is a decent indicator of your mental aptitude and your ability to pass tests.

Either you friend had a really bad day and thus scored the 21 or really isnt as bright as your are letting on.




Don't be a smart aleck.

AnaMaria777 actually scored a pretty sweet 33R.

Thanks for you input. Said friend has recovered and will be taking the Sept MCAT.

 

[MaximusD]

I'm posing a very serious question to all readers:


Do you think MCAT performance is a true indicator of intelligence/future potential?


I can't understand how or why really bright people end up with sucky MCAT scores, thus completely destroying their chances of getting into med school.


My best friend (who just happens to be one of the smartest people I know) scored a 21P on his June '08 MCAT. The poor fella is simply inconsolable.

In short, I'm sick and tired of seeing smart people with a genuine interest in medicine get screwed because of poor MCAT scores. Why can't admissions committees see beyond the numbers? A bad MCAT score doesn't mean a person is stupid, can't perform academically, or that they won't make awesome doctors!

Meanwhile, arrogant buttholes who probably don't give 2 sh*ts about the sick/injured seem to have no problems getting in…

Sorry folks, I just had to get this off my chest!

No, the test itself mgiht not have a lot to do with your ability to be a good doctor in a direct relationship, however it may show that you're unwilling to put forth the effort to at least get a passable score. Test taking isn't an innate ability for many... it can be learned and mastered. Tell your friend to do 20 practice exams. I assure you, his score will increase.

It doesn't matter if it's a good indicator.. it is THE indicator that schools use and it is what stands between premeds and med school. Discussing hypotheticals is useless.

Give your friend best wishes and advise him to use a prep course if he doesn't have the discipline for self-study (I didn't). I got a 21 on my diagnostic for Kaplan and ended up with a 32 after 3-4 months of studying...

 

[Lokhtar]

I disagree, you do use ochem, cell bio and physics in medicine and depending on your specialty, every day.

Simply because you don't doesn't mean other people don't. I asked my friend who goes to Hopkins the point of their curriculum emphasizing a lot of basic science and he told me he felt it made him know more about WHY, and HOW treatments work. Clearly Hopkins doesn't train crappy doctors right so they must be doing something right.

He is talking about basic science in medical school - not pre-requisites in undergrad. You are mixing the two up.

 

[scpod]

No, the test itself mgiht not have a lot to do with your ability to be a good doctor in a direct relationship, however it may show that you're unwilling to put forth the effort to at least get a passable score....

The thing that no one has really touched on, though, is what is a "good" doctor? The answer will change with each individual you ask, but most people seem to think that a "good" doctor is one who is kind, understanding, listens well and doesn't udge you....blah....blah....blah....

There's another side of the coin, though. The nicest, most understanding person in the world, while he or she may have a great bedside manner, can be totally incompetent when it comes to actually practicing medicine. The MCAT goes a long ways towards assuring that the test taker has a reasonable chance at learning the sciences involved in the practice of medicine. You might meet a wonderful man or woman, who has incredible people skills and is genuinely caring.....but if s/he can't understand the acid/base balance of your body, you surely don't want them to be in charge of your health care.

Of course, I want the best of both worlds for myself. I want the caring doctor with great people skills who aso has the greatest clinical and scientific skills on Earth. But....as much as I hate to admit it...when it comes to my own personal care, I'd rather have a jerk who knows what he's doing than a nice guy who smiles a lot, tells me everything's gonna be ok and prescribes me the wrong medication.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

The best doctors are the ones who take the pain away with massive amounts of medication.

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[spazzz]

I'm posing a very serious question to all readers:


Do you think MCAT performance is a true indicator of intelligence/future potential?


I can't understand how or why really bright people end up with sucky MCAT scores, thus completely destroying their chances of getting into med school.


My best friend (who just happens to be one of the smartest people I know) scored a 21P on his June ’08 MCAT. The poor fella is simply inconsolable.

In short, I'm sick and tired of seeing smart people with a genuine interest in medicine get screwed because of poor MCAT scores. Why can’t admissions committees see beyond the numbers? A bad MCAT score doesn’t mean a person is stupid, can’t perform academically, or that they won't make awesome doctors!

Meanwhile, arrogant buttholes who probably don’t give 2 sh*ts about the sick/injured seem to have no problems getting in…

Sorry folks, I just had to get this off my chest!

you need more than "heart" to get into med school. people who only do medicine just to "help people" are the flipside of those who do it solely for money. I know that medicine for me is more than "helping people". it's a career choice. Learning how to bend over and play the game is all part of getting there.

 

[ShyRem]

I don't care if the guy's a jerk or a nice guy. I want someone who will either be able to diagnose my problem and treat it appropriately, or someone with the humility, intelligence, and caring enough to send me to someone who can help me.

Unfortunately, generally the jerks are too egotistical to realize they're in over their head and the nice guys who refer folks to someone else are viewed as someone less than stellar.

 

[CDO2012]

Just want to quickly say that if your friend is getting a 21, s/he isn't that smart.
If you know your basics you should be able to get a 10 on each section. If you REALLY know your material you should be able to consistently get 12+ on the two sciences.

What I'm tired of are the people who don't know how to study properly or lack the mental faculties to quickly integrate new information, yet just simply would not stop complaining.

Yeah thats wrong, everyone has a different way of thinking so how would you know about someones lack of mental faculties. If someone still really knows their basics nerves could get the best of them and or something else could be going on. Don't be so judgmental.

 

[Baaaark]

I am a newbie to all of this pre-health stuff, but I will chime in.

Since I can't speak from experience or even intelligence, I'll only say that I would not be worried if I found out my Doctor had a low MCAT score. First, I'd be much more worried about his score AFTER med school, and secondly, a test is only a good measure of capability, not desire. It wouldn't surprise me if the people with the low test scores don't do better in school because they feel the need to try harder.

Anyway, it only takes one school to get in, and I have no idea if his score is good enough (I'm a newbie to all of that). But I did want to say that as a patient, I would be fine with knowing a doctor had a bad test score to get into med school. Its where he graduated in his class that I'd want to know about. 🙂

 

[Gpan]

I am a newbie to all of this pre-health stuff, but I will chime in.

Since I can't speak from experience or even intelligence, I'll only say that I would not be worried if I found out my Doctor had a low MCAT score. First, I'd be much more worried about his score AFTER med school, and secondly, a test is only a good measure of capability, not desire. It wouldn't surprise me if the people with the low test scores don't do better in school because they feel the need to try harder.

Anyway, it only takes one school to get in, and I have no idea if his score is good enough (I'm a newbie to all of that). But I did want to say that as a patient, I would be fine with knowing a doctor had a bad test score to get into med school. Its where he graduated in his class that I'd want to know about. 🙂

If you're still talking about the MCAT in this case, then you should be worried sick. Many brilliant doctors would score below 25, due to the test materials not having to do much about medicine except 1 section (Bio sci). No matter how good doctors they are, they cannot remember those stupid physic equations, and don't care much about those damn humanity, political, philosophical passages.

SO to the OP, I think the only helpful test to know if you're gonna be successful in medical school is your score on the bio sci section. All the fundamental concepts, logic and explanations, they're all there. If you got a high score on that section (12-15), then you're golden.

 

[Baaaark]

If you're still talking about the MCAT in this case, then you should be worried sick. Many brilliant doctors would score below 25, due to the test materials not having to do much about medicine except 1 section (Bio sci). No matter how good doctors they are, they cannot remember those stupid physic equations, and don't care much about those damn humanity, political, philosophical passages.

SO to the OP, I think the only helpful test to know if you're gonna be successful in medical school is your score on the bio sci section. All the fundamental concepts, logic and explanations, they're all there. If you got a high score on that section (12-15), then you're golden.

I was talking about the exit exams, the USMLE I guess it is. I don't even know if it has a number to it, or if its only pass/fail, but I'd want to know my doctor did well on that. IMO saying a low MCAT makes a bad doctor is like saying a low SAT or ACT score makes a bad college student. Its just not true. If anything, I've notice the people with lower scores work harder to make sure they succeed, while the high-scorers lay around and think they don't need to study, and then get caught off guard when they find out they do.

 

[PerpetualStudent]

I think there should be a rigorous test for admission in medical school, but it would make more sense for it all to be related to biology, physiology, and anatomy right? I think physics and organic chemistry is on it for sole purposes of weeding people out.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I think the MCAT is a pretty good test. The questions are typically well-written, and it is challenging, but not impossible.

It is very different, I think in a good way, from most tests that you take in undergrad. I really like the way you have to think to answer some of the questions though.

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[miniwangja]

Bad MCAT score has nothing to do with becoming a good doctor.

It'll simply stop you from becoming one.

 

[ILikeFood]

every school accept everybody!

 

[Sparda29]

The MCAT doesn't test your knowledge at all, and I hate it for that.

I took both the MCAT and the PCAT. Honestly, I felt that the PCAT tested the depth of my knowledge a lot more than the MCAT and is a better indicator of how somebody would be in the health sciences.

 

[Sparda29]

Bad MCAT score has nothing to do with becoming a good doctor.

It'll simply stop you from becoming one.

Or just **** the MCAT. Rebel against the system and become a Pirate of the Caribbean. Some schools over there do not require the MCAT.

The only test that shows if you're a good physician or not is the USMLE, and as long as you do great on that, it doesn't matter where you graduated from.

Sure, you might not get the residency of your dreams but once you're done with residency, you control your own destiny.

 

[Decicco]

I can't understand how or why really bright people end up with sucky MCAT scores, thus completely destroying their chances of getting into med school.

In short, I'm sick and tired of seeing smart people with a genuine interest in medicine get screwed because of poor MCAT scores. Why can't admissions committees see beyond the numbers? A bad MCAT score doesn't mean a person is stupid, can't perform academically, or that they won't make awesome doctors!

A bad MCAT means that someone isn't ready for medical school. They could still make great doctors, but first they need to prepare themselves for medical school.

And, a low MCAT does not "completely destroy" your chance at going to medical school. I scored a 26 and fought my way back and retook and now I think I have a great shot at getting in this cycle. AnaMaria777: Low MCATs suck, I've been there, but put in the effort and I am confident that you can succeed and go to any medical school that you want.

The MCAT doesn't test your knowledge at all, and I hate it for that.

We must have had different tests..

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I don't think a bad MCAT means that you aren't ready for med school. There could be any number of reasons for having a bad MCAT.

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[Decicco]

There are pretty much two reasons:

1) You didn't prepare enough

2) You aren't a very good test-taker (or aren't very bright)

I think the whole "had a bad day" is pretty overused and overblown. From what I can tell, it's usually the excuse used by people who fall into #1.

True, and you need #2 to succeed in medical school.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I think its possible to have a bad day. Maybe you didn't sleep the night before because you were nervous. Maybe the test had an inordinate amount of questions about things you might not have been as strong on. Of course, a bad day for one person won't be the same as a bad day for another person. However, I knew a guy who got I think a 25 on the April test, and came back with a 36 or some such **** on the August test. This was back when it was offered twice a year.

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[meggielou]

I think its possible to have a bad day. Maybe you didn't sleep the night before because you were nervous. Maybe the test had an inordinate amount of questions about things you might not have been as strong on. Of course, a bad day for one person won't be the same as a bad day for another person. However, I knew a guy who got I think a 25 on the April test, and came back with a 36 or some such **** on the August test. This was back when it was offered twice a year.

Posted via Mobile Device

Agreed. I had strep throat on the day of my test, back when it was offered only twice a year. I did OK, not great, but I think I would have done considerably better if I didn't have a fever of 102. Luckily, I didn't have to test that theory 🙂

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I think I would have done considerably better if I didn't have a fever of 102.

Or an IQ of 102


Zing!

 

[Sparda29]

That's the thing though. Why should you have to prepare for the MCAT for 3-4 months when for midterms and finals, you don't even prepare for like more than 3 days.

 

[slim78]

I think people are looking at the MCAT all wrong. Like many here have already stated, the MCAT has nothing to do with what kind of doctor you will be - good or bad. But it does have everything to do with whether you become a doctor at all.

Not everyone can go to medical school. There have to be some measures in place to make it difficult. For some people the most difficult step of the application process is the MCAT. For others it may be something else entirely. The most difficult part for me was acquiring letters of recommendation.

The MCAT is just one of a number of difficult steps designed to discourage those who are not serious about medicine or capable of handling the coursework.

 

[DrBowtie]

That's the thing though. Why should you have to prepare for the MCAT for 3-4 months when for midterms and finals, you don't even prepare for like more than 3 days.

Because its the test that determines IF you'll get into medical school. It's important so you prepare. 😕

 

[DrBowtie]

The MCAT doesn't test your knowledge at all, and I hate it for that.

I took both the MCAT and the PCAT. Honestly, I felt that the PCAT tested the depth of my knowledge a lot more than the MCAT and is a better indicator of how somebody would be in the health sciences.

You don't get the concept of the MCAT.
Why would you have a test over material you are going to be taught in the future?

The MCAT is a reasoning test first and foremost with the questions grounded in the sciences. It isn't about cold recall of facts like the DAT/PCAT. Its about synthesizing new info with what you have learned to draw correct conclusions which is an important skill for physicians.

This also makes it a more valid test in my opinion since most people score +/- 3 points on retakes (Source: AAMC data). With a cold recall test given enough time, anyone can score well, but with the MCAT everyone will plateau at some point.

 

[Decicco]

I cannot believe all the whining that is going on in this thread. Are you going to use excuses like these (sore throat, etc) in med school?

 

[DrMattOglesby]

Personally, I've been lead to believe that the MCAT is essentially present as a means to make the adcom's jobs easier.
If they get thousands and thousands of applications, they are going to need a quick and dirty way to sort through all of them. Hence the competitive nature of MCAT and GPA. True, it might have some correlation with the USMLE/COMLEX...but correlation does not equal causation.
It also a way of equalizing everyone. Standardized tests are distributed to put everyone on the same playing field...however, there are some factors that can't be controlled; i.e., people who are ESL, or students who couldn't afford to take expensive MCAT classes.
All in all though, the MCAT is here to stay, despite whether or not we agree with its prediction ability of who makes a good doctor. So the best thing we can do is perform to our abilities.

 

[meggielou]

I cannot believe all the whining that is going on in this thread. Are you going to use excuses like these (sore throat, etc) in med school?

Wow. Considering you used my "excuse" to mock this entire thread, I'll be the first to reem you out. First of all, strep throat and a "sore throat" are not anything close to similar. I can't speak for everyone else on here, but I was not making an excuse but giving an example of how a "bad day" can affect a score, which was more of a problem when the test was administered only twice a year. I went through more hardship than you could probably imagine as an undergrad, didn't make excuses then, and don't plan on starting in August for med school.

And now to defend everyone. Maybe instead of being condescending, you could realize that people who have yet to take the MCAT or who did poorly the first time (and hopefully learned from their mistakes, lack of preparation, etc) are petrified that they won't have the opportunity to become doctors.

It is my understanding that we are here to encourage and provide constructive criticism, not to berate others.

 

[Decicco]

And now to defend everyone. Maybe instead of being condescending, you could realize that people who have yet to take the MCAT or who did poorly the first time (and hopefully learned from their mistakes, lack of preparation, etc) are petrified that they won't have the opportunity to become doctors.

I too did poorly the first time. My point was to avoiding making excuses and to instead focus on your weaknesses and make them your strengths.

Good luck!

 

[Saregamapadanis]

I too did poorly the first time. My point was to avoiding making excuses and to instead focus on your weaknesses and make them your strengths.

Good luck!

Good advice!
Good luck this application cycle, your second mcat looks great. 😀👍

 

[Anton Chigurh]

I think people are looking at the MCAT all wrong. Like many here have already stated, the MCAT has nothing to do with what kind of doctor you will be - good or bad. But it does have everything to do with whether you become a doctor at all.

Not everyone can go to medical school. There have to be some measures in place to make it difficult. For some people the most difficult step of the application process is the MCAT. For others it may be something else entirely. The most difficult part for me was acquiring letters of recommendation.

The MCAT is just one of a number of difficult steps designed to discourage those who are not serious about medicine or capable of handling the coursework.

Yep, the MCAT was one of the strongest parts of my application. However, getting LORs was by far the most difficult hurdle I had to get through. I'm not going to make the same mistake again. Never thought that I would say this, but kissing butt is definitely something that I have to work on, especially for clinical years.

 

[Kappy1]

I'm posing a very serious question to all readers:


Do you think MCAT performance is a true indicator of intelligence/future potential?


I can't understand how or why really bright people end up with sucky MCAT scores, thus completely destroying their chances of getting into med school.


My best friend (who just happens to be one of the smartest people I know) scored a 21P on his June '08 MCAT. The poor fella is simply inconsolable.

In short, I'm sick and tired of seeing smart people with a genuine interest in medicine get screwed because of poor MCAT scores. Why can't admissions committees see beyond the numbers? A bad MCAT score doesn't mean a person is stupid, can't perform academically, or that they won't make awesome doctors!

Meanwhile, arrogant buttholes who probably don't give 2 sh*ts about the sick/injured seem to have no problems getting in…

Sorry folks, I just had to get this off my chest!

A bad MCAT has nothing to do with whether or not you will be a good doctor. The MCAT's is one indicator of many as to whether or not someone is medical school ready. The GPA is another indicator to see if a student is medical school ready. All of these are indicators. There are no certainties. I know of students who get in to medical school and don't make it through. They have 30+ on the MCAT and the high GPA's. Even the USMLE/COMLEX doesn't test weather or not a student will be a good physician(whatever that means). I read a study not sure by who (when I find the source I will post it.) found that the best doctors (what ever that means) didn't have the highest USMLE/COMLEX scores and where not the top students in medical school. The MCAT again is an indicator for performance on the board's. But it is not the end all. Even people with low MCAT's have done very well on the boards and can and are fine doctors.

As people have mentioned earlier anyone can have a bad day on MCAT's, medical school, rotations, USMLE/COMLEX or life in general. Hopefully this will pick you up if you are down. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBbn7lr_odk[/youtube]