Does anybody want to talk me down from the ledge?

[JaggerPlate]

Well ....

I have been a member here for a while now, and ever since really investigating osteopathic medicine; I fell in love and decided it was perfect for me. However, (sorry to beat a dead horse here) the RVU issue has really brought me to the point of not wanting to apply to DO schools (hence greatly reducing my chances of actually becoming a doctor). I am trying to read through the crazy anti posts (especially on the president of the AOA's blog) and the corporate statements from RVU themselves ... but this issue has left me depressed, and fearful for the future of the DO. I really fear that these for profit schools are going to start rising up like flies (the AOA doesn't care to do a damn thing about it), and residency spots, opportunities for the degree, and the ability to even be considered a doctor (and not someone who paid for a degree) are all going out the window. I mean, the AOA is showing absolutely no respect to those involved in the profession, and making it seem as if they are a half assed organization in general ... and one that I'm really not sure I want representing my medical degree. I know this thread will probably just spark parties voicing strong opinions on both sides, but I wanted to express my thoughts over the manner as one single person who feels as if they are loosing something very important to them. I never had any intention of applying to RVU, but I fear now that no matter where I would get my DO ... it will be extremely different/not as it should be.

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[Punchap]

Well ....

I have been a member here for a while now, and ever since really investigating osteopathic medicine; I fell in love and decided it was perfect for me. However, (sorry to beat a dead horse here) the RVU issue has really brought me to the point of not wanting to apply to DO schools (hence greatly reducing my chances of actually becoming a doctor). I am trying to read through the crazy anti posts (especially on the president of the AOA's blog) and the corporate statements from RVU themselves ... but this issue has left me depressed, and fearful for the future of the DO. I really fear that these for profit schools are going to start rising up like flies (the AOA doesn't care to do a damn thing about it), and residency spots, opportunities for the degree, and the ability to even be considered a doctor (and not someone who paid for a degree) are all going out the window. I mean, the AOA is showing absolutely no respect to those involved in the profession, and making it seem as if they are a half assed organization in general ... and one that I'm really not sure I want representing my medical degree. I know this thread will probably just spark parties voicing strong opinions on both sides, but I wanted to express my thoughts over the manner as one single person who feels as if they are loosing something very important to them. I never had any intention of applying to RVU, but I fear now that no matter where I would get my DO ... it will be extremely different/not as it should be.

The development of RVUCOM should not deter you from becoming an excellent physician -- something that can be accomplished with an MD or a DO. It is upsetting for most DOs/prospective DOs to learn of for-profit developments; however, it has no bearing on how good of a doctor you can become and what you can bring to the profession. In my opinion, if you want to see good things come about for osteopathy then do your best to contribute to the well-established DO community by adding research, excellent patient care, etc. If you have any doubts about obtaining a DO degree, maybe you should hold-out for MD. But consider, every profession has some downfall...don't let this keep you from obtaining the goal that you originally thought was 'perfect' for you.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

RVU is going to destroy not only osteopathic medicine, but medicine in general. It will also cause hitler to rise from the grave and conquer the world, alongside Lo-Pan.

Basically, its the worst parts of the bible.

 

[JaggerPlate]

The development of RVUCOM should not deter you from becoming an excellent physician -- something that can be accomplished with an MD or a DO. It is upsetting for most DOs/prospective DOs to learn of for-profit developments; however, it has no bearing on how good of a doctor you can become and what you can bring to the profession. In my opinion, if you want to see good things come about for osteopathy then do your best to contribute to the well-established DO community by adding research, excellent patient care, etc. If you have any doubts about obtaining a DO degree, maybe you should hold-out for MD. But consider, every profession has some downfall...don't let this keep you from obtaining the goal that you originally thought was 'perfect' for you.

I know saying something is 'perfect' for me, but then letting something like this bring me down seems quite hypocritical ... but if what the degree itself represents changes; then it is not what I was originally shooting for.

As far as holding out for MD ... I originally didn't care where I went (allo or osteo), but always found myself trying to make myself a better canidate for osteopahtic schools ... I'm not sure if an MD is even what I want .

I'm basically just looking for confirmation that RVU isn't the doomsday that I feel it is (hahah thank you Texas for your comment ... humor always helps👍) and to know if this is changing anyone else's minds??

 

[Powdermonkey]

RVU is going to destroy not only osteopathic medicine, but medicine in general. It will also cause hitler to rise from the grave and conquer the world, alongside Lo-Pan.

Basically, its the worst parts of the bible.

I heard that Saddam is gonna be the vice president of the 3rd Reich too.

 

[Kuba]

if thats making you doubt applying osteo, then you don't want it bad enough or you just love drama.

 

[mastamark]

RVU is going to destroy not only osteopathic medicine, but medicine in general. It will also cause hitler to rise from the grave and conquer the world, alongside Lo-Pan.

Basically, its the worst parts of the bible.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

[spicedmanna]

I'm basically just looking for confirmation that RVU isn't the doomsday that I feel it is (hahah thank you Texas for your comment ... humor always helps👍) and to know if this is changing anyone else's minds??

Futurizing can get you into all kinds of trouble. Nobody knows what's going to happen one minute from now, let alone years. Stop with the worry. The best way to be of service to the osteopathic profession is to be the best osteopathic physician that you can. We are the embassadors of osteopathic medicine.

Let's just say this: one for-profit school isn't going to be the down-fall of osteopathic medicine. Of course it probably isn't desirable, although that's completely arguable, too, since nobody truly knows the impact of RVU. We are just guessing. Nevertheless, I think osteopathic medicine is one institution that has withstood many changes and the test of time. I predict that we will only become stronger, as has been the trend.

I don't think recent developments will impact you negatively as long as you continue to strive to be a great physician. Whether you choose MD, or DO, or whatever, doesn't matter to me. Do what feels right from the inside-out.

Peace.

 

[JaggerPlate]

if thats making you doubt applying osteo, then you don't want it bad enough or you just love drama.

Actually quite the opposite ... I want osteo extremely bad, BUT my fear (as stated before) is that RVU will change the face of osteo ... ergo making it different. I want osteo, trust me ... I do (anyone who cares to look through my previous posts can see my dedication), but if I go to a COM and then by the time I get out the degree is tarnished/different ... where does that leave me? Please don't make this thread a personal attack on me, I'm not trying to be dramatic or cause a stir (I apologize if I do) I just want someone to tell me that this damn company isn't going to change osteopathic medicine, or if others are having the same fears??

 

[JaggerPlate]

Futurizing can get you into all kinds of trouble. Nobody knows what's going to happen one minute from now, let alone years. Stop with the worry. The best way to be of service to the osteopathic profession is to be the best osteopathic physician that you can. We are the embassadors of osteopathic medicine.

Let's just say this: one for-profit school isn't going to be the down-fall of osteopathic medicine. Of course it probably isn't desirable, although that's completely arguable, too, since nobody truly knows the impact of RVU. We are just guessing. Nevertheless, I think osteopathic medicine is one institution that has withstood many changes and the test of time. I predict that we will only become stronger, as has been the trend.

I don't think recent developments will impact you negatively as long as you continue to strive to be a great physician. Whether you choose MD, or DO, or whatever, doesn't matter to me. Do what feels right from the inside-out.

Peace.

THANK YOU. All I was looking for was honest advice ... thank you times a million. (Now all can feel free to nominate satan or hitler or who ever else to rise up and lead the school ... or give more opinions !!)

 

[Navy94]

Futurizing can get you into all kinds of trouble. Nobody knows what's going to happen one minute from now, let alone years. Stop with the worry. The best way to be of service to the osteopathic profession is to be the best osteopathic physician that you can. We are the embassadors of osteopathic medicine.

Let's just say this: one for-profit school isn't going to be the down-fall of osteopathic medicine. Of course it probably isn't desirable, although that's completely arguable, too, since nobody truly knows the impact of RVU. We are just guessing. Nevertheless, I think osteopathic medicine is one institution that has withstood many changes and the test of time. I predict that we will only become stronger, as has been the trend.

I don't think recent developments will impact you negatively as long as you continue to strive to be a great physician. Whether you choose MD, or DO, or whatever, doesn't matter to me. Do what feels right from the inside-out.

Peace.

I think this was well said. When reading posts on this page, remember you do not know how factual the sources are or even who is writing the post. These pages are full of opinions, which some may be right and some wrong. Find a good reliable source before making any decisions.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I think this was well said. When reading posts on this page, remember you do not know how factual the sources are or even who is writing the post. These pages are full of opinions, which some may be right and some wrong. Find a good reliable source before making any decisions.

Thats a huge part of the problem too ... you don't know who has what motives for their opinions. That's why I figured SDN current medical students / pre osteo students could share if they had any of the same worries. As far as a 'reliable source' though ... I'll keep searching!

 

[t-funk]

Personally, I don't think it is a good thing for many reasons but I do not think it alone will cause osteopathic medicine to fall. I don't want to get into it anymore because last time I did, I ended up having to read the most boring 300 page report ever. I think I know more now about european medical schools of the 1800s and early 1900s than I ever wanted to. Anyway, I don't think it's a good thing. 'Nuff said.

 

[jltuttle]

Well ....

I have been a member here for a while now, and ever since really investigating osteopathic medicine; I fell in love and decided it was perfect for me. However, (sorry to beat a dead horse here) the RVU issue has really brought me to the point of not wanting to apply to DO schools (hence greatly reducing my chances of actually becoming a doctor). I am trying to read through the crazy anti posts (especially on the president of the AOA's blog) and the corporate statements from RVU themselves ... but this issue has left me depressed, and fearful for the future of the DO. I really fear that these for profit schools are going to start rising up like flies (the AOA doesn't care to do a damn thing about it), and residency spots, opportunities for the degree, and the ability to even be considered a doctor (and not someone who paid for a degree) are all going out the window. I mean, the AOA is showing absolutely no respect to those involved in the profession, and making it seem as if they are a half assed organization in general ... and one that I'm really not sure I want representing my medical degree. I know this thread will probably just spark parties voicing strong opinions on both sides, but I wanted to express my thoughts over the manner as one single person who feels as if they are loosing something very important to them. I never had any intention of applying to RVU, but I fear now that no matter where I would get my DO ... it will be extremely different/not as it should be.

So basically what you're saying is that because there is going to be one for-profit DO school in the US, you feel that the face of osteopathic medicine is going to change, that DOs will no longer be respected and that essentially DOs will be looked upon as physicians who "paid for their degree"?

Are you forgetting that there have been for-profit MD schools around for decades? Did the face of medicine begin to change when the first for-profit Caribbean school emerged? In 2004 it was estimated that 25% of all practicing physicians in the United States are IMGs (International Medical Graduates). There are thousands of MD's practicing medicine in the US right now that graduated from for-profit medical schools. Has the value of an MD degree changed since then? Are MDs viewed as doctors who "paid for their degree"?

If you have an attitude of indifference about DO schools because there is soon to be 1 for profit DO institution out there, then based on that same logic you wouldn't want to pursue an MD degree either. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find training in any field where profit is not to be had by someone at some point along the way.

 

[nascardoc]

Thats a huge part of the problem too ... you don't know who has what motives for their opinions. That's why I figured SDN current medical students / pre osteo students could share if they had any of the same worries. As far as a 'reliable source' though ... I'll keep searching!

I am at DCOM and I don't like what RVU has done. But I will not let it deter from what other schools HAVE done and WILL do (in my case of DCOM b/c we will do good things for osteopathy, along with other newer schools). We have many COM's that have a great history (CCOM, PCOM, KCOM, etc.) and they have paved great roads for us as future DO's. I highly doubt that one school will be the downfall of a whole profession. Could it give osteopathy some black eyes? Yes, but we would have to work thru that if we ever come to that point. Osteopathic medicine recovered from California converting the DO degree to MD, and converting the lone California DO school into an allopathic institution (UC-Irvine). It wasn't until after World War II when DO's were accepted into the Armed Forces as physicians. I believe it wasn't until 1973 when DO's were licensed in all 50 states, with Mississippi being the last. We have overcome a lot in our history, and we can again, if we ever come to that. The sad thing is that we would be overcoming we did to ourselves rather than an outside group discriminating against us. But hopefully we never get to that point.

But don't let RVU stop you from fulfilling your goal of becoming a doctor, just don't apply there.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Thank you so much to everyone for all your advice. This is exactly what I need to clear my head and keep chugging on. Sorry once again for being grim ... long day at work in which I read stuff about RVU all day that just got me to a point where I was really bummed. Thank you again, and all advice (good or bad) is greatly appreciated😀.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I don't think any of you appreciate the awesomeness of Lo-pan, arguably the greatest movie character of all-time.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I don't think any of you appreciate the awesomeness of Lo-pan, arguably the greatest movie character of all-time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo_Pan

I got your back ...

"Lo Pan is part of the anti-Chuck Norris gang in the web animation The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny.[1] "

.... sucks to be Lo Pan. All I know is that Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid of the dark ... but because the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I just want to echo this sentiment. We need more to try to change the structure for the better and we need to expand DO's.

Pharm schools also have a few recent ventures in for-profit and apparently no one sees anything wrong with them. Things happen for a reason, maybe this will be a wakeup call eventually to the AOA/COCA or maybe this will be the best thing that ever happened to osteopathic medicine. Who knows, but what I do know is that I want to be an osteopathic physician and AGAIN had to reiterate why to my mother who would much rather me apply to schools in my current city. Schools I have NO shot in hell in getting into. 🙁 Literally, they would see my gpa and mcat and laugh my application all the way out to the giant trash can of horrible applicants 😉 Osteopathic physicians bring something else to the table that MD's can't and I'd like to be part of that. Whether or not I get to use that skill is only up to me.

Don't let one "mistake" keep you away. 😀

 

[mrjbb]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo_Pan

.... sucks to be Lo Pan. All I know is that Chuck Norris sleeps with a night light. Not because Chuck Norris is afraid of the dark ... but because the dark is afraid of Chuck Norris.

Lol.... Speculation in the past has brought us to believe that Chuck Norris went back in time and Fathered himself....

God originally wanted to make the world in seven days...... Chuck Norris gave him six........

 

[Nasem]

For many of us (esspecially non-trads like myself),
I didn't start switching to medicine for the $$$ or fame or people's respect or whatever, I did it becuase I want to make a difference in other people's lives, thats the way you should think too, your doing this because you love this job and not the way people look at you.

Trust me, if your a good doctor, people WILL respect you regardless if your DO / MD / DDS / DMD / etc etc...period

 

[Jpc984]

If RVU isn't making profits, can the legally shut down like normal businesses? That wouldn't be good for matriculants.

 

[JaggerPlate]

If RVU isn't making profits, can the legally shut down like normal businesses? That wouldn't be good for matriculants.

I believe if the investors pull out and they aren't funded ... they would have no choice. However, with student costs at like $65,000 a year (for everything - including stuff that doesn't go to the school); I think they will stay open for sure.

 

[gasapple]

I don't think any of you appreciate the awesomeness of Lo-pan, arguably the greatest movie character of all-time.

I sense Big Trouble in Little China... I respect the Lo-Pan and his levitation!

With regard to RVU, initially I was just as "let down" as everyone else here in this forum. However, if I get no love from my target MD/DO schools post-interview, I'll attend RVU should the opportunity arise without looking back. Furthermore, I will place my board scores up there for comparison when I get to that stage before entering my specialized field. Yep, the RVU investors are banking on people with this very attitude and that's fine by me.

FWIW, I just shadowed two DOs in Emergency Care here in TX and also conversed with a FMG anesthesiologist out of DFW just today. The conversations were very candid and enlightening beyond measure - more relevant information than I've ever received here. Most of the fear and skepticism on SDN is insecure dribble meant to influence pre-meds and propagate the usual misconceptions. The SDN forum, chalk full of misinformation, is more of a detriment than RVU will ever be. A path is a path and I fail to see the problem after viewing the presented opinions as they relate to RVU. No opinions from insecure premeds or general skeptics will sway my dedication once the door is open.

I'll make it work and I'm hungry. Just how hungry are YOU?

 

[Frank l]

I think RVU is a dumb idea, but for-profit medical education will not be unique to osteopathic medicine if RVU goes through. There are for-profit carribean schools. That doesn't make the quality of the MD degree as a whole go down. RVU won't decrease the value of the DO degree either. It MAY decrease the value of a DO degree from RVU, but that's it.

 

[Nasem]

another thing is...

If they provide strong education for thier students and do some sort of medical research... so what if theyr in it for the money, they might actually be forced to provide strong teaching staff and in which case, it plays out for the best to all of us...

The #1 thing I look for is education, if they are going to provide a strong medical education, then I would have no problem applying to them, but if theyr like the old medical schools from 100 years back where alot of thier teaching staff was only part-time and all they cared about was getting money from students but not provide any real education, then screw them, I woun't even apply