Does anyone actually give up Harvard Med?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
curbsideconsult

curbsideconsult

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
894
Reaction score
1,765
I've asked the google and I can't seem to find an answer (in the first two pages).

Apparently I don't know as much as I thought I did because I'm reading these "help me decide" threads about kids trying to choose between Harvard and other schools and I'm wondering what the dilemma is. Is it just humblebragging? (Yes, I love that word.) Is it cold feet? If they were so worried about the atmosphere, etc. of Harvard why did they apply in the first place?

I post this here because I'm wondering if there are any med students (or beyond) who got accepted to Harvard and ultimately decided to go somewhere else. Why did you do it? I'm really struggling to understand. I can't fathom why anyone would give it up except for the most extreme of circumstances. To me, to give up Harvard would be like someone telling me I'll be given $10 million for my hard work and then saying, "nah, I'll go with the $10k."

Apologies in advance for posting in the wrong forum. I've never, in my 8 week long SDN history, have started a thread.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
If you have to ask for the price then you can't afford it.
 
I guess I'm still stuck in the mindset of Harvard trumps cost, location, etc., almost anything except family. Don't get me wrong. I am very happy with where I ended up and I'm not sure I would have fared better anywhere else and I know any US med school education will still result in a job and comfortable life yada yada yada, but I'm pretty sure if I had the stats to apply to Harvard and got in, I would definitely go no matter the cost and would assume that pretty much any opportunity would be open to me simply by the weight of the name.

I'm usually very good at putting myself in other peoples' shoes, but I have never been able to do so with this particular situation and I needed some personal anecdotes to get my head out of my *ss to see what these people are seeing. Since I don't know anyone IRL who's ever turned down Harvard, I figured SDN would be the best way to understand someone's frame of mind in this circumstance.
 
mw18 said:
If you love Harvard so much, why don't you marry it?
Click to expand...
Because the Supremes would probably rule against a human/educational institution marriage. Although, if educational institutions continue to run like like businesses and businesses are corporations and corporations are people, then eventually I could?
 
curbsideconsult said:
I guess I'm still stuck in the mindset of Harvard trumps cost, location, etc., almost anything except family. Don't get me wrong. I am very happy with where I ended up and I'm not sure I would have fared better anywhere else and I know any US med school education will still result in a job and comfortable life yada yada yada, but I'm pretty sure if I had the stats to apply to Harvard and got in, I would definitely go no matter the cost and would assume that pretty much any opportunity would be open to me simply by the weight of the name.

I'm usually very good at putting myself in other peoples' shoes, but I have never been able to do so with this particular situation and I needed some personal anecdotes to get my head out of my *ss to see what these people are seeing. Since I don't know anyone IRL who's ever turned down Harvard, I figured SDN would be the best way to understand someone's frame of mind in this circumstance.
Click to expand...
The only thing more elite than going to Harvard is getting in and turning it down.
 
Pepe18 said:
After going to a top undergrad and then working at a top med school, I can very confidently say that a top academic center is not type of environment I want to be in. My goal is to go to a solid residency and then end up working a solid career at a mid tier academic center. It is such a rat race at the top and there is so much focus on things that aren't related to making me a better physician and which suck the joy out of learning. I'm also from a lower-income background, and prefer being with classmates/mentors from similar backgrounds. And I come from a background where people are as impressed by University of Kansas as they are with Harvard.

My goals don't require a Harvard pedigree and I don't think I'd be happy there. I don't want to spend my life working hard to keep up with the Jones- I want to work hard because I loving learning and I want to be great at what I do. People have different values/goals/past experiences
Click to expand...
Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I genuinely just wanted to understand the reasons for someone rejecting Harvard med. I don't like the idea that I can't understand what someone is going through because I'm usually a very empathetic person. And I really don't like the idea that I still have these archaic notions stuck in my head. I figured if someone could enlighten me with their personal experiences, I would better understand it and grow a little more.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
curbsideconsult said:
I've asked the google and I can't seem to find an answer (in the first two pages).

Apparently I don't know as much as I thought I did because I'm reading these "help me decide" threads about kids trying to choose between Harvard and other schools and I'm wondering what the dilemma is. Is it just humblebragging? (Yes, I love that word.) Is it cold feet? If they were so worried about the atmosphere, etc. of Harvard why did they apply in the first place?

I post this here because I'm wondering if there are any med students (or beyond) who got accepted to Harvard and ultimately decided to go somewhere else. Why did you do it? I'm really struggling to understand. I can't fathom why anyone would give it up except for the most extreme of circumstances. To me, to give up Harvard would be like someone telling me I'll be given $10 million for my hard work and then saying, "nah, I'll go with the $10k."

Apologies in advance for posting in the wrong forum. I've never, in my 8 week long SDN history, have started a thread.
Click to expand...
If you look at Harvard's matriculant numbers, then one can estimate that they accepted about 2-3x more than they have seats (500 vs 165). Hence, some 350 accepts went elsewhere. I presume that went to other Harvard/Stanford class schools.
 
There are actually many reasons people would turn down HMS. If name is a big thing to you, then you'd of course choose HMS. But if you're choosing between HMS and other top schools and name isn't a big deal to you as much as happiness, curriculum, etc., then there are many reasons why you would turn down HMS.
 
curbsideconsult said:
Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I genuinely just wanted to understand the reasons for someone rejecting Harvard med. I don't like the idea that I can't understand what someone is going through because I'm usually a very empathetic person. And I really don't like the idea that I still have these archaic notions stuck in my head. I figured if someone could enlighten me with their personal experiences, I would better understand it and grow a little more.
Click to expand...

Current COA for Harvard Med is ~$386k for all 4 years (COA is over $90k/year). If you get no scholarships, that easily turns into $500k by the time you finish residency and if you don't pay it down fast, it can easily hit $750k in total repayment. If you go somewhere that give you a massive scholarship or full ride, it's a huge savings. Even if you want to go into academia or a competitive field, there are plenty of other very strong medical schools that will get you there at a fraction of the cost. Plus when you're one of the top applicants, it's less about where you can get in and more about what the med schools have to offer for you.
 
Stagg737 said:
Current COA for Harvard Med is ~$386k for all 4 years (COA is over $90k/year). If you get no scholarships, that easily turns into $500k by the time you finish residency and if you don't pay it down fast, it can easily hit $750k in total repayment. If you go somewhere that give you a massive scholarship or full ride, it's a huge savings. Even if you want to go into academia or a competitive field, there are plenty of other very strong medical schools that will get you there at a fraction of the cost. Plus when you're one of the top applicants, it's less about where you can get in and more about what the med schools have to offer for you.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this. I had a friend who went to an expensive Ivy League and then an expensive COL place for residency who now makes far, far less than me working in a far more expensive area with far more debt. Add all that up and I’ll probably retire a decade before them or more.
 
I think its a combination of things. Boston elitism sucks, Boston biomed culture sucks even more, family is far away, your other options are also in top 20 and maybe financially better. Besides, there is this hope that if you were good enough to be accepted there, than you have what it takes to go as far in your career as if you were there.
 
I know for a fact I have a classmate who came to my school over Harvard and another came here over Stanford.

Geography, specific opportunities, specific faculty, financial aid offers, "fit" and culture,etc.
 
I have a classmate who turned down Harvard to attend our mid tier program. He did it for the location. No financial incentive whatsoever.
 
I wouldn't. Been gunning since day 1 trying to get in here and will try everything in my power.
 
Boston has excellent pros and awful cons. If you can deal with the terrible weather, lack of any form of fast/reliable transit, and generally terrible housing, you get to enjoy the fantastic food, culture, medicine/science, proximity to beautiful New England stuff, etc.
 
Its close to a half a mil unless subsidized? And has Ivy Culture - meaning rich kid hysterics, counter hysterics, and administrative controls attempting to quell hysterics. And Boston culture - which is polarizing.

So, yeah, there are lots of reasons to not go HMS.
 
After the 5th blizzard of the year, I would pick any warm climate school over the northeast. Sorry.

It sucks getting out in the middle of the freezing snow, it really sucks having to wake up at 3am to go to the hospital in the freezing snow.
 
Tenk said:
Pretty much this. I had a friend who went to an expensive Ivy League and then an expensive COL place for residency who now makes far, far less than me working in a far more expensive area with far more debt. Add all that up and I’ll probably retire a decade before them or more.
Click to expand...

Definitely true for EM. No prestige factor. To anyone thinking EM, apply early out of undergrad with AP credit, just go to the any medical school, don’t take a gap year unless you need to, don’t waste time on research in medical school, and go to the place with the best fit that finishes in 3 years, avoid the 4th year and then you can work anywhere. Some places for med school that would be steals if you knew you wanted EM are Cincinnati, Indiana, and Wayne State. They are relatively less competitive programs that provide a great name for training in EM specifically. If I knew I wanted for sure to do EM, I would turn down Harvard for 50K to attend Wayne State for 30K. That’s pretty much 100K for no good reason. There’s no prestige/name-recognition that serves as a barrier of entry in EM. Also unlike IM you don’t have to worry about fellowships/etc.
 
Last edited:
Syncrohnize said:
Definitely true for EM. No prestige factor. To anyone thinking EM, apply early out of undergrad with AP credit, just go to the any medical school, don’t take a gap year unless you need to, don’t waste time on research in medical school, and go to the place with the best fit that finishes in 3 years, avoid the 4th year and then you can work anywhere. Some places for med school that would be steals if you knew you wanted EM are Cincinnati, Indiana, and Wayne State. They are relatively less competitive programs that provide a great name for training in EM specifically. If I knew I wanted for sure to do EM, I would turn down Harvard for 50K to attend Wayne State for 30K. That’s pretty much 100K for no good reason. There’s no prestige/name-recognition that serves as a barrier of entry in EM. Also unlike IM you don’t have to worry about fellowships/etc.
Click to expand...
1) I didn’t want to do EM when I started medical school yet here I am.
2) People from my class matched in every specialty. How did they do that? Hard work. The name of your school only carries you so far.
3) There are lots of prestigious EM programs that require lots of research. I got interviews at a ton of programs (had like 30 offers turned down like 10) since I had a lot of research and great board scores. Wasn’t for me though. I realized I enjoy life more than work.
4) The point of my post was to point out that you don’t need to take out unnecessary debt to accomplish your life goals. If your goal is to go to Harvard medical school and be a professor there then yeah, you should probably go to Harvard. If you goal is to be a neurosurgeon, dermatologist, GI, cardiologist, CT surgeon, etc, there are way more paths to consider and blowing off debt like it doesn’t matter is what fools do.
5) Hope that helps.
 
Pepe18 said:
I had a friend who gave up Harvard for a full scholarship to a different top 5 med school. She really struggled to make that decision, which is insane to me. Free top 5 med school. Free any med school is such a huge burden lifted off you. As someone who went to a top undergrad, I've seen many people realize that there are things that matter more in life than the name of the school on your degree and those things are enough to make someone turn down Harvard
Click to expand...
Do you know which medical school gave her a full tuition?
 
Dox4lyfe said:
I know a few people who chose full rides to WashU over HMS.
Click to expand...

These schools are definitely in the same league. In fact, I think WashU has higher average admissions stats than HMS.
 
eteshoe said:
Some people don't like the weather.
Click to expand...
No one actually likes the weather, not even the locals. It's something you either accept or not.

Winter in Boston breaks people.
 
I have a perspective on this as someone who is a year or so away from finishing training and going out into practice.

There is a definite advantage to going to an Ivy caliber school (Harvard, UCSF, Stanford, Hopkins, etc) because it opens lots of doors in academia. If your goal is to become a leader of X topic in X field and you want to publish 200 papers on this topic and become a famous authority on it, then one of those schools will help you get there. Some people also have a need to swim in “prestige” as some marker of success - fine for them - it ultimately is their choice.

The trade off is much higher debt from going to a private institution, a work environment which many may not thrive in (lots of gunners, backstabbing, wealthy/privileged kids showing off, more competition than in most state institutions, etc), and diminishing returns for certain specialties. As someone mentioned for EM, there isn’t a huge bonus to these schools if EM is your intended pursuit - unless you want to stay hardcore academic and publish publish publish. I would argue the same applies to IM, surgery, FM, peds, or any other generalist specialty if your goal is simply to become a good doctor and go into practice. Additionally because most powerhouse academic centers tend to be in cities with high COL, and the pay tends to be low, this makes debt harder to pay back in one of these academic careers - so people tend to go into practice anyway a good proportion of the time.

As someone who went to a state school, state medical school, upper mid tier academic residency and fellowship, and is doing more training in a subspecialty of that fellowship (ick), I have been very happy with my success. I’ve reached a point in my life where I’ve gone through high amounts of competition to get where I am and don’t need to validate myself with a “prestige” name. I didn’t need a fancy name to get where I am and will undoubtedly try to make the best of whatever I do. And looking back on my colleagues who valued the “name” and “prestige” to the exclusion of all else - well, some are happy, and some remain dissatisfied no matter how well they do.

Food for thought.
 
Old joke I just remembered:
A Harvard guy and a Yale guy are in the men's room, doing their business at the urinals.

Harvard guy finished first and goes to wash his hands.

Yale guy finishes and goes to leave.

Harvard guy: At Haa-vaad, they teach us to wash owah hands aftah using the baathroom

Yalie: At Yale, they teach us not to pee on our hands!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

V
  • Locked
House bill 238 to give AI prescribing authority
2 3
Replies
103
Views
7K
chilly_md
chilly_md
Maskchamp
Anyone actually enjoy residency?
2
Replies
79
Views
11K
AlbinoHawk DO
AlbinoHawk DO
A
  • Locked
I got a 215 on Step 2. I was applying for psychiatry and IM. Should I just apply to FM and give up.
Replies
17
Views
2K
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
D
How much does the interview really influence the actual ranking?
Replies
29
Views
7K
deleted1199414
D
Z
MD Anyone involved with Adcom?
Replies
1
Views
363
Goro
Goro
Top