Does anyone else hate 4th year?! Or am I the only one?

[vanasme]

I hate MS4 year. It's been the most miserable year of my life (and I've had some objectively bad years to compare it too).

I'd been looking forward to this year since before medical school even started. Everyone said it would be the "best year of my life." I'm finding it to be the exact opposite.

Basically, the year began on rough note and never got better. I finished step 2 (which actually went surprisingly well) and started auditions/sub-Is. I loved my rotations and didn't find the hours too unbearable. But trying to finalize my ERAS application, finish my personal statement and track down letters of recommendation was pretty miserable after working 16 hour shifts plus many weekends. I also decided to apply to a less competitive "back up" specialty which essentially doubled my work load. I regret this now. Hindsight is 20/20.

Then interviews started. I applied broadly and interviewed broadly. I was still on rotations while interviewing and sometimes went weeks without a single day off (I was either at my rotation, traveling, or interviewing). The jet lag was exhausting and I found interviews to be quite stressful (not the interview itself typically, but the logistics - how to get there, where to park, who was meeting me where, trying to keep everything organized, etc). I also quickly grew to dislike the pre-interview dinners. Something about 3 hr long dinners with strangers 2/3/4 times a week was pretty painful. There's only so many times I could ask the same boring questions. About half way through the interview season I decided I had no genuine interest in my "back up" specialty so I cancelled the remainder of my interviews. This made things slightly more tolerable.

My school also only allows 10 total days off for interviews (5 in any one rotation). Obviously most people need more than 10 days. I was typically able to work things out with my attendings, but I was always paranoid my school would somehow find out I took more than the allowed days and make me do some sort of nonsense makeup activity. Thankfully that never happened.

Now that my rank list is finalized I'm absolutely terrified of my match outcome. The stakes are exceptionally high. If I don't get one of my top two choices I'll have to leave my husband and son (and our comfortable house) and get a studio apartment for myself to crash in during the work week. My husband is stuck in our current city for another year (my intern year) to finish up his residency. He's in a fairly lifestyle friendly specially and his parents live closeish. I've chosen a less lifestyle friendly specialty so it wouldn't make sense for our son to live with me for the year. The thought of living without them is heart wrenching, to put it mildly. It would "only" be a year, but it would be a very long, miserable year (and onviously much worse than this year). My husband and I have done the long distance thing in the past. That's not the major issue. Not seeing my son for potentially weeks at a time is what concerns me.

To top it off, I've hated every single one of my rotations, with the exception of my auditions/Sub-Is. I have a lot of nonsense graduation requirements that don't pertain to my chosen speciality and are of very little interest to me. Plus, as a 4th year I've been doing mostly scut work. As a 3rd year I was either being taught or ignored (both of which were fine by me). This year, I'm mostly made to do the overworked intern's scut work and I'm learning very little. Sure, knowing how to interact with social workers and figuring how to navigate different insurance plans is important... But spending hours per day seems a little excessive (for a 4th year... Who's still paying to learn!). I fully understand I'll be doing even more scut work next year. Being paid to do it is different than paying to do it.

Anyways, I know this was a very long, rambling rant. I've just really haven't enjoyed this year and I'm wondering if anyone else can relate. Or am I the only one?!

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[Tenk]

Just wait for post match.

 

[LostinLift]

TL;DR
1) Signed up for difficult rotations during fall and interview season while dual applying
2) Stressed by logistics of interviewing
3) Interviewing and pre-interview dinners got old fast, cancelled rest of second specialty interviews
4) Must match top 2 or leave husband + son for 1 year
5) Hated all other rotations, forced to scut + no teaching
6) Have more uninteresting rotations coming up

Is that a fair summary? I am sorry your school seems to be so difficult in 4th year. Are there no easy rotations you can take that count for graduation? Most people at my school have October/November/December basically off, either on a super easy rotation that lets you out by noon or they're on vacation/research/internet elective. In addition most electives other than ICU/Surg are really chill for 4th years. The husband/child situation is rough, life gets complicated when both parents are working two extremely demanding jobs.

A good read from someone who is there
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amy-westervelt/having-it-all-kinda-sucks_b_9237772.html

 

[Hangry]

Your school doesn't give you block months off during fourth year? Every school I've heard of does. Would have made your interview grind much more palatable.

 

[sobored]

OP I'm with you. I didn't enjoy 4th year, a lot of it for the same reasons you listed. I think it's much more stressful than people like to admit on this forum for whatever reason. That said, after match (assuming things work out for you) you will enjoy it a bit more. But yeah seriously an overrated year. And expensive.

 

[akwho]

4th year has been pretty stressful up to this point. High stakes home sub-i's and multiple aways with brutal hours. Tracking down LoR's was like some form of Grecian torture. Then crisscrossing the country doing 15+ interviews. Eating terribly, jet lag, unable to exercise. Awful for the most part, although the fellow applicants were a lot of fun and it was cool seeing parts of the country I'd never been to. I felt like I finally found my people (fellow applicants and future senior residents) which was awesome.

After interviews were done I'm still debating my rank list, considering an S.O., my family, and my career which make it all pretty stressful as well. Rotations have chilled out at this point, and I'm getting the "you're a 4th year, go home" speech from my residents on a daily basis (THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART I LOVE YOU). It should get better from here on out, barring the nervousness of Match week. But overall, I would say 4th year is probably the most stressful year yet and I'm pretty chill dude who really enjoyed the first three years.

 

[J ROD]

I agree I have found it to be the most stressful. With interviewing and still having to be on rotations. Then, deciding the ROL. etc.

 

[URHere]

I haven't found MS4 to be the most stressful year...but it's certainly been the most frustrating.

It's really bizarre to go from crazy hours and sleep deprivation on Sub-Is to interview season where you gradually become more jet-lagged, frustrated, and anti-social. In my opinion, it's even worse to end up on easy electives where you accomplish and learn nothing, but still have to show up. I would much rather be in the ICU than in the radiology suite being utterly useless and watching everyone ignore me...but that's hard to arrange when other students still need their required rotations. On top of all of this is the lingering fear that I'm overlooking something important when it comes to my rank list, and the stress that comes with knowing I'll have to find a new home entirely on weekends (and from 1500-3000 miles away) because I somehow ended up with a required rotation in April-May. The cherry on top is my entire family flipping out over my match list because they want to come to my (mid-June) graduation, but they know that is only likely to happen if I end up at specific programs. Don't even get me started on my credit card balance...

The upside is the lovely little jaunt around Asia I have planned post-match. Whenever I get frustrated, I just stare at my passport and it all seems a little more OK.

 

[vanasme]

TL;DR
1) Signed up for difficult rotations during fall and interview season while dual applying
2) Stressed by logistics of interviewing
3) Interviewing and pre-interview dinners got old fast, cancelled rest of second specialty interviews
4) Must match top 2 or leave husband + son for 1 year
5) Hated all other rotations, forced to scut + no teaching
6) Have more uninteresting rotations coming up

Exactly.

Your school doesn't give you block months off during fourth year?

We get one month off during 4th year. We can choose when to take that month. I took it right at the beginning of 4th year to study for Step2 (I only had an average Step1 score and I really wanted a stellar Step2 score). Otherwise, I wouldn't have gotten any dedicated Step2 study time. That month paid off, but I gave up that month to use for interview season or at the end of the year (when most people take it).

I think it's much more stressful than people like to admit on this forum for whatever reason. That said, after match (assuming things work out for you) you will enjoy it a bit more. But yeah seriously an overrated year. And expensive.

Agreed. I feel like all the fourth years lied to me when I was an MS3 haha (or maybe their year was genuinely better than mine has been). I feel like I'm crushing all the current MS3's hopes and dreams for a "chill" 4th year. Or maybe I'm just bitter and should stop talking to them... Let them think MS4 is going to be the best year of their life (maybe for some of them it will be...)

4th year has been pretty stressful up to this point. High stakes home sub-i's and multiple aways with brutal hours. Tracking down LoR's was like some form of Grecian torture. Then crisscrossing the country doing 15+ interviews. Eating terribly, jet lag, unable to exercise. Awful for the most part, although the fellow applicants were a lot of fun and it was cool seeing parts of the country I'd never been to. I felt like I finally found my people (fellow applicants and future senior residents) which was awesome.

After interviews were done I'm still debating my rank list, considering an S.O., my family, and my career which make it all pretty stressful as well. Rotations have chilled out at this point, and I'm getting the "you're a 4th year, go home" speech from my residents on a daily basis (THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART I LOVE YOU). It should get better from here on out, barring the nervousness of Match week. But overall, I would say 4th year is probably the most stressful year yet and I'm pretty chill dude who really enjoyed the first three years.

I also enjoyed the first three years. And as a somewhat nontrad that worked for a couple of years before starting medical school, I found them a very welcome relief from the 9-5 grind. Meeting residents from around the country and in two different specialities solidified my choice not to rank my backup specialty. It became apparent pretty quickly that they weren't "my people."

The upside is the lovely little jaunt around Asia I have planned post-match. Whenever I get frustrated, I just stare at my passport and it all seems a little more OK.

I have a very nice post-graduation trip planned as well. It's the only thing keeping me going at this point!

 

[alpinism]

MS4 schedules highly depend on what specialty you're going into and where you go to school.

If you're going into FM or PMR or any specialty that's easy to match into it can be really chill.
After knocking out SubIs during the summer you basically go on 6 or 7 interviews at your top choices then coast the rest of the year.
As long as you don't have any red flags and apply broadly you're almost guaranteed to match highly.

On the other hand if you're going into a more competitive specialty it can be really stressful.
In addition to SubI requirements you also have to do audition rotations before interviewing at 12 or more places across the country.
Even with great grades, step scores, and LORs there's still a good chance you might not match highly.

 

[SierraMist14]

Man, ya'll are bugging. 4th year is GREAT. Aside from my medicine sub-I and my SICU rotation, I've been chilling all year. I'll admit interviews got a little annoying towards the end but overall it was a cool experience. My rank list has been certified and I'm currently kicking back sippin' some wine.

 

[adamanteus]

Can't relate to that. My fourth year has been awesome. Granted, I only did one sub-I at the very beginning, but I scheduled all my rotations to be at smaller places I knew to be relaxed with great hours and attendings. I did 10 interviews all within a few hours drive of where I live, enjoyed their dime paying for all my hotels and expensive dinners, I have my rank list submitted, and now I'm working on getting my private pilot's license flying 2-3 times per week, taking the kayak out on warmer days, and going hiking when weather permits. I'm surely going to be missing these days one year from now.

 

[Psai]

I love it, finished all the requirements as early as possible and then went around visiting places, eating amazing food, meeting great people. I'm getting taken more seriously than as a third year, making decisions for patients and reporting directly to the attending, doing some procedures when I can get the opportunity. Not having to worry about people liking you enough to get honors or having to study for a shelf is awesome. I read some papers, books, watch tv whenever I want. Meet up with my buddies. It's nice

 

[Snoopy2006]

It's not just you, but you're in the minority.

I really do believe that when it comes to your life experiences, your approach and mindset are even more important than the actual things that happened to you, and determine happiness vs misery. What you described sounds a lot like my own m4 year. I applied to a competitive specialty and a backup specialty just in case, and interviewed almost constantly for about 4 months (add in prelims and it was like 3 specialties). I ended up loving the entire experience. From my point of view, I got to travel around the country, see cities I'd never seen before, get free dinners and in some cases free hotel stays, met interesting new people over dinner and made new friends. When I was interviewing I enjoyed the time away from medical school and treated it like a vacation, and when I was back I appreciated not being on the road and getting back to work. Ended up being a blast. Life's what you make of it.

Match Day is usually stressful, especially for people who have something extra at stake like you, but try not to let it eat away at you. Hope everyone goes well for you on match day.

And keep in mind that the best part of M4 year, for most people, is post-match, so you still have a lot to look forward to.

 

[J ROD]

I think one would find it more stressful if you have more than yourself that is waiting on where you match. I have to factor my family and SO in that equation. Also, I am getting married in less than 2 months. So, it is probably just more than school that has me stressed. First 2 years were just in the way and 3rd yr was hard. IMHO

 

[Temeraire]

Dude, I'm loving 4th year.

My take: I knocked out Step 2 CS/CK immediately after 3rd year ended (best decision ever) and gave myself a week-long vacation after that. Then I started doing rotations that I actually give ****s about and thoroughly enjoyed (including an awesome sub-i in the ICU). During these months I still had time to take weekend trips with friends. Right around ERAS submission time, I did a month-long away rotation across the country at my #1 choice for residency. I had so much fun there that it didn't feel stressful at all. Came back for a cush few weeks at a private practice outpatient surgical subspecialty clinic, followed by 2 months of interviews that I frontloaded so I could be finished before Christmas break. Interviews were exhausting, yes, but also an incredible opportunity to travel and explore fantastic cities. January was another cush month on radiology reading only films that interested me (chest rads) and doing extra procedures in the IR suite. Now I'm currently on a baller international exchange rotation for which my school fully covers the cost of travel, tuition, and housing.

Am I stressed out matching to where my SO currently lives? A little, maybe. But I acknowledged this problem early in MS1 and busted tail throughout med school to optimize my match probabilities. Now the hard work has paid off handsomely and MS4 is a blast.

I agree with Snoopy2006 about having a positive, proactive mindset. You need to take MS4 by the horns.

 

[qwerty89]

1. Your school sucks for not having vacation blocks for interviews. 10 days off total is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
2. Some specialties, like rads, dont really care what you do so your ENTIRE 4th year can be chill as f***. (Followed by a chill TY if you choose)
3. You are doing scutwork OUTSIDE of sub-Is/auditions? This is just poor planning/scheduling. You needed to pick rotations where you don't do jack. Path/Rads are classic.

 

[NickNaylor]

MS4 was a breeze. Then again, I knocked out step 2 fairly early and only did two months of clinical rotations. I got to take some courses that I was actually interested in, got to a research project that I essentially did independently that I was interested in, had lots of free time, got married, etc. etc.. I think it really depends on what you have on your plate.

At the institution I'm doing my residency at, I feel bad for the med students... they basically only get 2-3 months with the rest filled with clinical rotations. That would suck (though wouldn't necessarily be the worst use of your time - looking back, I wish I had done a few more clinical rotations).

You'll get through it. Soon enough you'll be starting residency and realizing how good you had it this year.

 

[evilbooyaa]

For those applying in a competitive specialty, the first half of 4th year is generally NOT easy. Ideally, the last half of the year is bearable however. Most residents will let you go home either spontaneously or if you ask (and who cares if they look down on you for it? They're not going to fail you for asking to go home).

 

[DocToBe2018]

Oh, boy, I'm anxiously waiting for my MS2 year - step 1 and what not- to be done with so I can start my MS3 year. But then I see "I hate my MS3 year" postings by MS3s and then this. Also, there are "I hate my residency years" postings by residents. So is there light somewhere at the end of this long tunnel?

 

[Slack3r]

Oh, boy, I'm anxiously waiting for my MS2 year - step 1 and what not- to be done with so I can start my MS3 year. But then I see "I hate my MS3 year" postings by MS3s and then this. Also, there are "I hate my residency years" postings by residents. So is there light somewhere at the end of this long tunnel?

There's always someone willing to complain about something. If you live life always thinking, "next year will be the year" or "the next step will make me happy," you're going to be in for a rough life. Try to enjoy the ride, it's really not that bad.

 

[Nymphicus]

I am thoroughly enjoying fourth year.