Does ER time = shadowing?

[mic2377]

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What actually constitutes MD shadowing for an application?

I am in a bit of a conundrum about this. I am currently a paramedic student, and spend a large quantity of time doing clinical shifts in the ER/ICU. The purpose of the shifts is to gain experience in skills we need to use frequently in the field - stuff like IV's, intubations, central line/IO access, EKG interpretation, CPAP/BiPAP, cardioversion, etc. This is actual patient treatment, not observation.

The total amount of hours required to gain a medic certification is VERY substantial (I have accumulated 400+ hrs in the ER alone over the course of my EMS education, not including all of my field/work time), and I obviously spend much of this time shoulder to shoulder with MD's and RN's. I feel my exposure has given me a very good understanding of the day in the life of a doctor, at least in the ER/ICU.

How does this relate to the "clinical volunteering" or "shadowing" I see the typical pre-med on this site doing? Does it "count?" Do I need to worry about gaining other experience? I am quite sure I would become dreadfully bored playing "tag-along" with a doc, unless I got to see some sort of cool surgery.

Also, do I need an LOR from an MD? I have 3 solid LOR's from 2 science profs and 1 humanities prof, 1 of which I used to do research under. I must confess I am paranoid about getting the details in order....

Fire away.....

 

[Stratego]

You are gaining excellent clinical experience, but it is not volunteering, as it is a class requirement. You would do well to have some type of community service experience, which need not be medically-related (Habitat for Humanity, soup kitchen, Humane Society, for example) to put on your application as well. I think you can make it clear in your narrative description that physican shadowing is embedded in the current experience. If your think shadowing a surgeon would be cool, why not hit on your ER contacts to get it set up. You have enough otherwise that it need not be a prolonged experience.

Few MD med schools ask for a physician letter, but most, if not all DO medical schools expect them. If your undergrad school has a pre-med committee that writes a composite letter for you, they might require one. That should be easy to check on. If an opportunity for such a letter falls into your lap, then take it, even if you might never need it.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Props to my fellow EMS person 🙂 . Typically, shadowing involves following a physician around and seeing all aspects of care that he or she does. I don't feel that EMS is a proper way to do this - you only bring the person in, you don't often see the next steps (at least after the initial stabilizing ones) in care, and you certainly don't see discharges. I know your medic involved ER time though - if you followed around a doctor during this time, as opposed to a nurse, then it would probably be considered shadowing.

I did not have an MD write me an LOR here, I got my captain to write my letter (he knows me best and is in a leadership position). I suggest that you should do the same thing.

Some people downplay the EMT role in clinical work (especially on SDN) - it has been absolutely central to my application and it was brought up favorably in each interview. You get a unique view of health care as part of the initiation of care, and you will be able to comment about issues such as health disparities during interviews which is absolute plus. Being a medic (I'm not quite there myself, too much time) is a huge bonus, schools know how long it takes - you should highlight this experience! Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions 🙂 Hope this helps, good luck!

 

[mtnman12]

I agree you're getting great clinical experience, but don't be tricked by this like I was. I've written about this a couple times, but I spent over 2,000 in a clinic, and kinda just forgot about shadowing. Until my first interview and waitlist. After I called, they told me I wasn't accepted because I didn't have any formal job shadowing.

So make sure to devote sometime to shadowing a few doctors in a formal setting. You do get a lot of benefit from this also, and some behind the scenes stuff as well. I don't think you necessarily need an MD letter as much as just getting letters that are really good.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I volunteered in an ER, somewhere around 150 hours, and then shadowed an ER doc a few shifts.. was amazed how much I learned and how different it was shadowing the doc versus just doing volunteer work and mostly speaking with the rest of the medical staff. Examples were that I got to see the steps that a doc took to document patient care, learn a little about how the doc thought regarding patient care, see the pace of the doc in manning his side of the ER, hearing from his perspective what was happenning with each patient (particularly the ones that may have had questionable medical reasons for requesting medications), etc. It was a great experience in that I learned a lot, although I often felt unsure about following too close or too far behind the doc.

 

[mic2377]

I must confess I am not so keen on the formal shadowing experience. I live in RTP area in NC, and with Duke and UNC nearby, it seems impossible to find a physician to shadow. There are too many damn students floating around, and I don't really have any family/friend connections to a physician to utilize as I am new to the area. I have been trying to milk my ER connections for all they are worth (to no success)!

I have indeed been around during all stages of the physician/patient contact process, from the initial contact all the way to discharge. Am I still missing something? Do I need to follow a family practice physician or some other specialty?

Besides my ER time for class, I work part-time at one EMS agency and volunteer at another. I think this would cover some volunteer time. I'll try and find some other activities as well. I used to volunteer as a piano teacher and math tutor during my undergrad, so maybe I'll try and continue with that.

I have just been a little bit frustrated. I really enjoy working in healthcare/EMS - it is my career right now - but I am concerned that I am somehow not jumping through hoops that need to be taken care of. Paranoia has set in. AAAHHHH!!!!!

 

[AdmiralChz]

Don't worry about it too much, but I find it pretty hard to believe that you won't be able to find a few doctors to shadow (especially ER docs who I'm sure you've gotten to know). Keep exploring, and talk to your friends to see if they are friends with any docs. It's all about networking - a skill you'll be using the rest of your life.

Especially over the summer, when all the college kids are home, you should have plenty of opportunities.