Does GPA matter

[pharm00123]

How much would you guys say GPA matters once you are in Pharm school? I am a current P2 and have been doing well up to this point (3.80), but I know for sure that I want to do retail. So is it really worth staying up all night trying to get that 4.0, or does it not matter for retail?
Do you think as there is more competition, even retail positions might look at gpa?

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[Sparda29]

How much would you guys say GPA matters once you are in Pharm school? I am a current P2 and have been doing well up to this point (3.80), but I know for sure that I want to do retail. So is it really worth staying up all night trying to get that 4.0, or does it not matter for retail?
Do you think as there is more competition, even retail positions might look at gpa?

With more competition, retail will probably prefer community pharmacy residencies, and those probably look at GPA.

 

[confettiflyer]

How much would you guys say GPA matters once you are in Pharm school? I am a current P2 and have been doing well up to this point (3.80), but I know for sure that I want to do retail. So is it really worth staying up all night trying to get that 4.0, or does it not matter for retail?
Do you think as there is more competition, even retail positions might look at gpa?

Retail? Doesn't matter at all... better to spend the time networking/working and getting to know your company and the people in it.

Danger: you hit your 4th year rotations and change your mind and decide to go the inpatient/residency route. then, in that case, GPA *does* matter.

Might as well keep your options open, besides, you have one more year of a real GPA to go for P3 year.

 

[CUpharmD2013]

With more competition, retail will probably prefer community pharmacy residencies, and those probably look at GPA.

And an internship will also help you to get one of those community pharmacy residencies.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Retail? Doesn't matter at all... better to spend the time networking/working and getting to know your company and the people in it.

Danger: you hit your 4th year rotations and change your mind and decide to go the inpatient/residency route. then, in that case, GPA *does* matter.

Might as well keep your options open, besides, you have one more year of a real GPA to go for P3 year.

+1. Happens more often than you might think.

 

[SHC1984]

Retail? Doesn't matter at all... better to spend the time networking/working and getting to know your company and the people in it.

Danger: you hit your 4th year rotations and change your mind and decide to go the inpatient/residency route. then, in that case, GPA *does* matter.

Might as well keep your options open, besides, you have one more year of a real GPA to go for P3 year.

Will residencies take students that had a 4.0 GPA their P1 and P2 year, but a really low GPA their P3 year?

 

[ADN1226]

It depends on the program, some will filter applications with just GPA while others will look through each year / each course. Some even want undergrad GPA! The P3 year is the most important year in terms of clinical information that will be used in practice so you'd want to do well in those P&T classes. I've seen students get interviews b/c they did well their P3 year while they struggled in the basic science classes.

Bottom line: do well in all 3 yrs of academia!

 

[pharm B]

Will residencies take students that had a 4.0 GPA their P1 and P2 year, but a really low GPA their P3 year?

I've been hearing more about residency programs wanting the "well rounded" candidate who showed significant participation in student organizations. I'm assuming if you maintain above a 3.0 and show a commitment to leadership and service roles, you're competitive.

But then again, I'm avoiding large hospital system residencies where it feels cut throat to get in, and you never get a chance to breathe once you've been accepted.

 

[SHC1984]

It depends on the program, some will filter applications with just GPA while others will look through each year / each course. Some even want undergrad GPA! The P3 year is the most important year in terms of clinical information that will be used in practice so you'd want to do well in those P&T classes. I've seen students get interviews b/c they did well their P3 year while they struggled in the basic science classes.

Bottom line: do well in all 3 yrs of academia!

My undergrad GPA is almost a 4.0 and my P1 and P2 year is....P3 year is the PROBLEM. LOL...

 

[SHC1984]

I've been hearing more about residency programs wanting the "well rounded" candidate who showed significant participation in student organizations. I'm assuming if you maintain above a 3.0 and show a commitment to leadership and service roles, you're competitive.

But then again, I'm avoiding large hospital system residencies where it feels cut throat to get in, and you never get a chance to breathe once you've been accepted.

I really HOPE I can get a job WITHOUT doing a residency period! I am not gonna lie about that...but with the jobs being so competitive and rare to come by I want to be able to do a residency if I have to. I'll pick a residency over retail for sure. But if I can get a job in a nuclear pharmacy or a work at home mail order place etc. I'll take that! haha.

 

[confettiflyer]

I've been hearing more about residency programs wanting the "well rounded" candidate who showed significant participation in student organizations. I'm assuming if you maintain above a 3.0 and show a commitment to leadership and service roles, you're competitive.

But then again, I'm avoiding large hospital system residencies where it feels cut throat to get in, and you never get a chance to breathe once you've been accepted.

You can't hide behind extracurriculars the way many students do now when being admitted to undergrad or pharm school. GPA plays a bigger role in the residency selection process.

Actually, what you'll face are applicants with high GPA's and extracurricular activities. Involvement is essentially baseline.

 

[confettiflyer]

+1. Happens more often than you might think.

Agreed, I know many people who changed their minds but were wholly unprepared for the application process due to their P1-P3 trajectory. Kind of hard to convince a RD/DOP to call you in for an interview when your GPA sucks, your rotations were easy, and all your experience is retail.

The digging of the "retail pit" starts early...way early!

 

[pharm00123]

+1. Happens more often than you might think.

Well what if you do NOT want to do a residency even after rotations and only want a retail job? Do you think in the next 3 years even retail positions like Wags or CVS might consider GPA into the mix? What do retail hirers usually look for in a staff pharmacist anyways?

 

[Sparda29]

Well what if you do NOT want to do a residency even after rotations and only want a retail job? Do you think in the next 3 years even retail positions like Wags or CVS might consider GPA into the mix? What do retail hirers usually look for in a staff pharmacist anyways?

Someone who's gonna do whatever they want them to do and how they want them to do it, without complaints about terrible working conditions.

 

[Argentium]

Well what if you do NOT want to do a residency even after rotations and only want a retail job? Do you think in the next 3 years even retail positions like Wags or CVS might consider GPA into the mix? What do retail hirers usually look for in a staff pharmacist anyways?

If I had to guess ... work experience would be the #1 factor with flexibility (floater, location, etc) at #2

 

[SHC1984]

Well what if you do NOT want to do a residency even after rotations and only want a retail job? Do you think in the next 3 years even retail positions like Wags or CVS might consider GPA into the mix? What do retail hirers usually look for in a staff pharmacist anyways?

Anyone that is willing to take a very low salary and work tons of hours will work out the best...

 

[Protongenic]

+1. Happens more often than you might think.

Totally agreed. I originally went into pharmacy school convinced that I'll work for CVS or some retail giant. But instead, I ended up with not one, but two years of residency.

I'd never have thought I'd totally fall in love with my inpatient clinical rotations. But even if you end up deciding residencies are not for you after you've had a few rotations, it probably doesn't hurt to keep all your options open in the beginning, right?

 

[zjm]

How much would you guys say GPA matters once you are in Pharm school? I am a current P2 and have been doing well up to this point (3.80), but I know for sure that I want to do retail. So is it really worth staying up all night trying to get that 4.0, or does it not matter for retail?
Do you think as there is more competition, even retail positions might look at gpa?

Grades don't matter as much in retail, unless if you are planning on pursuing a residency. With the job market being so competitive now, you might want to keep it at least >3.5. It's really more important to establish a relationship with your pharmacist (if you are working as an intern) in retail, so he/she can put in a good word for you. How long you've worked with the company also plays a role in determining if you get the job and the ideal location that you want.

 

[Its Z]

It doesn't matter what your aspiration in life is. Can you really accept mediocrity and say to yourself "I'm ok with C's..and a GPA of 2.5..."

Do your best and get good grades. What's it going to hurt?

 

[joetrisman]

It doesn't matter what your aspiration in life is. Can you really accept mediocrity and say to yourself "I'm ok with C's..and a GPA of 2.5..."

Do your best and get good grades. What's it going to hurt?

I talk to my advisor every quarter about this. Even if I make an A, I often feel as if I don't know enough adequately serve my patients. I think it would hurt not to do your best. Even making As, that only represents a small amount of the material that you actually answered questions on (multiple choice to boot). A 100% on a test != knowing a 100% of the material unfortunately. With that making Cs lends itself even less towards the outcomes of your patients in the future.

 

[Its Z]

What a dork.....but you're absolutely right. I studied to learn the material instead for grades. And it worked.

 

[SHC1984]

What a dork.....but you're absolutely right. I studied to learn the material instead for grades. And it worked.

You still remember everything you learned in pharmacy school?

 

[mustang sally]

Yes and no. I personally think it's a good idea to always try your best; however, there is a negative stereotype associated with high GPA students in pharmacy. So just be forewarned that while a high GPA is not necessarily a bad thing, it might not always be viewed in a positive light either. It's best to be well-rounded.

Pharmacy is becoming extremely competitive, so I feel that this advice is applicable whether you desire retail, hospital, or anything else.

 

[SHC1984]

Yes and no. I personally think it's a good idea to always try your best; however, there is a negative stereotype associated with high GPA students in pharmacy. So just be forewarned that while a high GPA is not necessarily a bad thing, it might not always be viewed in a positive light either. It's best to be well-rounded.

Pharmacy is becoming extremely competitive, so I feel that this advice is applicable whether you desire retail, hospital, or anything else.

People that believe that stereotype are either 1) not that smart so they have to put down others that are smarter. 2) extremely lazy so they try to put down hardworking people that make good grades. 3) just jealous and want to vent.

The stereotype is people with a 4.0 GPA 1) memorize everything and forget everything FAST. 2) has no life and only study 3) is not well rounded. That's just stupid.

I was a 4.0 student till my P3 year then I was a B (2 Cs) student. HAHA....so if that stupid stereostype was true then it means

1) now that I am making terrible grades I must be NOT memorizing everything and I must be remembering everything I learn...I mean since ONLY 4.0 students memorize and forget everything...so that means a C student remembers everything they learn? SO a C student must be perfect and remember everything they have ever learn right? Yeah, you gotta be crazy if you think that! 2) When I had a 4.0 I studied about 3 hrs a day.My P3 year I studied a night or two before the exam for a little bit (a few exams I didn't study for but made it up with my other exams! lol)....so either situation I had free time so #2 is wrong. 3) I am the SAME PERSON!!!!! So just because I am NOT a 4.0 student anymore automatically makes me more well rounded? so C students are well rounded and A students are not? again, please don't be crazy and believe this stupid stereotype.

It's hilarous!

 

[SHC1984]

Since I was a 4.0 student my P1 and P2 year and a LOW GPA student my P3 year I can honestly say this.

The ONLY difference between these two situations is that I get more free time by getting lower grades. I got more free time to relax, daydream, go shopping and read my favorite novels...instead of studying 3 hrs a day...I studied MUCH MUCH MUCH LESS. So that's pretty much the only difference between a 4.0 student versus a C student. One get more free time and the other go a bit less. That's it. I do not think anything else is any different. I am still the SAME person.

 

[owlegrad]

Anyone here ever hear of a strawman arguement?

 

[MrsAppleseed]

Do you need to drive yourself to the point of exhaustion to keep a 4.0? Definitely not. Many a pharmacist friend has told me that studying to get an A/100 on every exam is not worth it, and I know a good number of pharmacy administrations who avoid 3.99 and 4.0 GPA applicants. Do the best you can to still be proud of yourself, but maintain who you are. There's a pretty large window between social anxiety to keep a 4.0 and being called into the Dean's office to have a stern talk about your "performance."

 

[Rx MPLS]

So....what's a bad GPA?

 

[xiphoid2010]

So....what's a bad GPA?

I'll go out on a limb and say less than 3.0. That's the hard cut -off many residencies will use.

GPA and the amount of studying requires to achieve it is non-linear. Getting 4.0 will likely require more than double the amount of studying needed for a 3.5, while a 3.0 takes little more than just actually paying attention during class.

If you think residency might be a possibility, then keep your GPA at 3.5 or abve is a safe move.

 

[Rx MPLS]

One more question...are certain years or classes considered more important in terms of GPA?

The above a 3.0 seems sort of arbitrary because I imagine most people are getting above a 3.0 (or if they aren't, they certainly don't ever tell anybody). I do think the comment about nonlinear correlation with GPA and studying is right...it's not that hard to get a 3.0, but getting a GPA close to a 4.0 would require *significantly* more work.

 

[owlegrad]

Oh I know plenty of people with sub 3.0.

 

[mustang sally]

People that believe that stereotype are either 1) not that smart so they have to put down others that are smarter. 2) extremely lazy so they try to put down hardworking people that make good grades. 3) just jealous and want to vent.

The stereotype is people with a 4.0 GPA 1) memorize everything and forget everything FAST. 2) has no life and only study 3) is not well rounded. That's just stupid.

I was a 4.0 student till my P3 year then I was a B (2 Cs) student. HAHA....so if that stupid stereostype was true then it means

1) now that I am making terrible grades I must be NOT memorizing everything and I must be remembering everything I learn...I mean since ONLY 4.0 students memorize and forget everything...so that means a C student remembers everything they learn? SO a C student must be perfect and remember everything they have ever learn right? Yeah, you gotta be crazy if you think that! 2) When I had a 4.0 I studied about 3 hrs a day.My P3 year I studied a night or two before the exam for a little bit (a few exams I didn't study for but made it up with my other exams! lol)....so either situation I had free time so #2 is wrong. 3) I am the SAME PERSON!!!!! So just because I am NOT a 4.0 student anymore automatically makes me more well rounded? so C students are well rounded and A students are not? again, please don't be crazy and believe this stupid stereotype.

It's hilarous!

I didn't say that I agree with the stereotype, just that it exists. I have had several pharmacists and preceptors make disparaging comments to me about high GPA/Rho Chi students.

 

[SHC1984]

So....what's a bad GPA?

3.5 or lower.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Many schools/classes are curved so that a B is the average grade +/- a standard deviation. To have less than a B average is a pretty big red flag.

 

[SHC1984]

I didn't say that I agree with the stereotype, just that it exists. I have had several pharmacists and preceptors make disparaging comments to me about high GPA/Rho Chi students.

I just don't understand why people think that...it makes no sense to me. Only difference is one spends more time studying and one spends more time doing things they actually want to do...(like me NOW!)

 

[owlegrad]

I just don't understand why people think that...it makes no sense to me. Only difference is one spends more time studying and one spends more time doing things they actually want to do...(like me NOW!)

Right. Don't you think a certain type of person will be the one more likely to put in that effort? Hint: Type A personality. Some people do not enjoy working with people like that. Obviously I am painting with a VERY wide brush here, lol.

 

[KARM12]

Fine, you can have the C students and I'll take all the gunners. The gunners are going to produce results and get stuff done.

 

[SHC1984]

Right. Don't you think a certain type of person will be the one more likely to put in that effort? Hint: Type A personality. Some people do not enjoy working with people like that. Obviously I am painting with a VERY wide brush here, lol.

You are right. Type A and also a little bit of OCD too! hahaha....I am def Type A and I am pretty sure I have OCD as well.

 

[Rx MPLS]

Many schools/classes are curved so that a B is the average grade +/- a standard deviation. To have less than a B average is a pretty big red flag.

Thanks...this is something I've wondered for some time now. Good information to know!

 

[Its Z]

You still remember everything you learned in pharmacy school?

Nope. But that's not the point. The point is doing the best you can in school that prepares you to learn the pharmacy trade when you start working.

 

[type b pharmD]

Right. Don't you think a certain type of person will be the one more likely to put in that effort? Hint: Type A personality. Some people do not enjoy working with people like that. Obviously I am painting with a VERY wide brush here, lol.

heheheheh

I'm in the <3.0 club, and I would preferentially hire people with lower grades if i am ever in that position for the above reason.


Not worried at all about getting a job.

 

[owlegrad]

Not worried at all about getting a job.

Isn't that the kicker? Me either. And of the two people I know who have had to repeat a year, both work as interns and are pretty secure in having jobs when they graduate. Not that I recommend the sub 3.0 route AT ALL, but it's not the end of the world if it happens to you.

 

[atpsynthase]

Many of the mentors I have worked with and many of the pharmacists I have worked with have been associated with residencies (some preceptors, some directors). Maybe its the area, but the general consensus that I got from them was that even for ambulatory care or clinical residencies, GPAs are *not* looked at (unless they are extremely high or low) because they have found over and over again that the best students are in the middle some where.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I just discovered I hired a sub 3.0 GPA intern for my new company. His work is satisfactory, but maybe I should fire him? What do you guys think?

 

[owlegrad]

I just discovered I hired a sub 3.0 GPA intern for my new company. His work is satisfactory, but maybe I should fire him? What do you guys think?

You lie. I bet he is the bottom performer and should be culled before he spreads his poor work ethic and terrible attitude to your other employees.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

You lie. I bet he is the bottom performer and should be culled before he spreads his poor work ethic and terrible attitude to your other employees.

Actually, he really is more of a top guy.

 

[owlegrad]

Actually, he really is more of a top guy.

Who isn't?

 

[rxlea]

I just discovered I hired a sub 3.0 GPA intern for my new company. His work is satisfactory, but maybe I should fire him? What do you guys think?

How dare you!!!!! I bet he's from a diploma mill too!!!!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

How dare you!!!!! I bet he's from a diploma mill too!!!!

Well, I don't want to call him out, but....

 

[owlegrad]

Oh I don't like where this is going at all. Whoever this guy is I am sure he goes to a former top 10 school that is nationally recognized as being a great school that is not a diploma mill at all.