Does half-URM count as URM?

[PikaDocGirl]

Hi. I'm curious how you have to fill out the racial section on the AMCAS.

1. Is there a multi-racial/mixed races box?
2. Or should I be checking the hispanic and the white boxes?
3. Does the school still consider biracial w/ half of it being white as URM?

Thanksies.

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[Godspeedyou]

Hispanic and white is 100% white. Better luck next time? Lol

 

[Mad Jack]

Yes.

You can check multiple boxes, I believe. But this would apply for two races. Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. You would be white race and Hispanic ethnicity.

 

[goldy490]

I believe AMCAS considers anything above 1/4 of your ancestry your race (i.e. 1/4 native american = native american).

However, like Mad Jack said, hispanic is an ethnicity, and you can self identify as hispanic pretty much regardless of how much hispanic heritage you have. No one is gonna ask you to "prove it" anyway.

 

[Planes2Doc]

SDN PC Response: Check both boxes for Hispanic and white.

SDN Non-PC Response: Check the box for Hispanic. Now make sure you start doing ECs focused around the Hispanic community to show your commitment to the culture. Your reasons for becoming a physician are between you and any higher power you may believe in. Don't let anyone give you hell for doing everything you can to give yourself the most competitive application possible in this ultra-competitive unforgiving environment.

 

[WingedOx]

Only one half of you is allowed into med school. ADCOMs use the "King Solomon Solution" in this case.

 

[Spector1]

I doubt anyone will call you on it. Mark whatever you feel that you are.

 

[PikaDocGirl]

It doesn't seem like Hispanic/White or being URM has an advantage at all:

According to: https://www.aamc.org/download/321472/data/factstable8.pdf
there were 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants to Med School in 2014-2015 cycle.

Of those 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants only: 466 were matriculates into med school. (https://www.aamc.org/download/321474/data/factstable9.pdf)

That is 45.1% of applicants that were hispanic & white that were matriculates into med school.

Now looking at just white there were 24,049, and of that 10,609 were matriculates into med school. That is a 44.1%

Lastly, looking at hispanic/latino only: 2,911 applicants, and of that 1,230 were matriculates into med school. That is a 42.3% which is lower than white & hispanic/white.

Now looking at African American: 3,537 applicants, and 1,227 matriculates into med school: 34.6%

It seems to me that being a URM is almost worse. I'm really confused. I know this is a minor detail of an application.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

It doesn't seem like Hispanic/White or being URM has an advantage at all:

According to: https://www.aamc.org/download/321472/data/factstable8.pdf
there were 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants to Med School in 2014-2015 cycle.

Of those 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants only: 466 were matriculates into med school. (https://www.aamc.org/download/321474/data/factstable9.pdf)

That is 45.1% of applicants that were hispanic & white that were matriculates into med school.

Now looking at just white there were 24,049, and of that 10,609 were matriculates into med school. That is a 44.1%

Lastly, looking at hispanic/latino only: 2,911 applicants, and of that 1,230 were matriculates into med school. That is a 42.3% which is lower than white & hispanic/white.

Now looking at African American: 3,537 applicants, and 1,227 matriculates into med school: 34.6%

It seems to me that being a URM is almost worse. I'm really confused. I know this is a minor detail of an application.

Have you controlled for MCAT/GPA?

 

[aesklepi]

It doesn't seem like Hispanic/White or being URM has an advantage at all:

According to: https://www.aamc.org/download/321472/data/factstable8.pdf
there were 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants to Med School in 2014-2015 cycle.

Of those 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants only: 466 were matriculates into med school. (https://www.aamc.org/download/321474/data/factstable9.pdf)

That is 45.1% of applicants that were hispanic & white that were matriculates into med school.

Now looking at just white there were 24,049, and of that 10,609 were matriculates into med school. That is a 44.1%

Lastly, looking at hispanic/latino only: 2,911 applicants, and of that 1,230 were matriculates into med school. That is a 42.3% which is lower than white & hispanic/white.

Now looking at African American: 3,537 applicants, and 1,227 matriculates into med school: 34.6%

It seems to me that being a URM is almost worse. I'm really confused. I know this is a minor detail of an application.

Calculating statistics, then asking the questions. Not a good practice.
Think of what those numbers would be without URM support.

 

[ofthesaints]

This has the makings for another full-blown, off-topic URM thread.

 

[Planes2Doc]

It doesn't seem like Hispanic/White or being URM has an advantage at all:

According to: https://www.aamc.org/download/321472/data/factstable8.pdf
there were 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants to Med School in 2014-2015 cycle.

Of those 1,032 Hispanic/White applicants only: 466 were matriculates into med school. (https://www.aamc.org/download/321474/data/factstable9.pdf)

That is 45.1% of applicants that were hispanic & white that were matriculates into med school.

Now looking at just white there were 24,049, and of that 10,609 were matriculates into med school. That is a 44.1%

Lastly, looking at hispanic/latino only: 2,911 applicants, and of that 1,230 were matriculates into med school. That is a 42.3% which is lower than white & hispanic/white.

Now looking at African American: 3,537 applicants, and 1,227 matriculates into med school: 34.6%

It seems to me that being a URM is almost worse. I'm really confused. I know this is a minor detail of an application.

I probably learned in a stats class long ago how to interpret this data, but I have no idea anymore. The URM pool is much smaller, and they can get in with lower stats. Whether you believe it is right or not is a whole other ethical debate, which this thread may or may not turn into.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Use Table 25 instead, as you can compare groups with the same MCAT and GPA, as well as the percentage of applicants from each group that applies with certain MCATs and GPAs.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

 

[Planes2Doc]

Use Table 25 instead, as you can compare groups with the same MCAT and GPA, as well as the percentage of applicants from each group that applies with certain MCATs and GPAs.

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

 

[gyngyn]

Many Hispanics are not considered UIM.
This can make the interpretation of data in Table 25 challenging.

 

[LizzyM]

Many Hispanics go to medical schools in Puerto Rico and the minimum GPA and MCAT at those schools skew the Table 25 data downward, I think. If it were possible to pull out those matriculants, I think you'd find much less "advantage" given to Hispanic candidates than what it first appears. Ditto Black/African-American and matriculants to Morehouse, Howard, Meharry.

 

[gyngyn]

Many Hispanics go to medical schools in Puerto Rico and the minimum GPA and MCAT at those schools skew the Table 25 data downward, I think. If it were possible to pull out those matriculants, I think you'd find much less "advantage" given to Hispanic candidates than what it first appears. Ditto Black/African-American and matriculants to Morehouse, Howard, Meharry.

You beat me to it!

 

[feather421]

Sup, fellow Latina here. There's a section on the AMCAS where you can check both, and then break down your Hispanic heritage to a specific country of origin if you want. Good luck applying!

I'm also mixed, so I know that it can be weird to address one part of your heritage, or you worry you're not "enough"...don't stress. Speak intelligently and genuinely about your experiences, that's what counts. Med schools aren't just after quotas, they want a class with varied perspectives, and that includes yours. Most of my interviews have been with older white gentlemen, and I think the schools are looking to switch that up.

Also, boy would I be mad if someone who was a Hispanic studies major or studied abroad in college/afterward claimed to have Hispanic heritage. If that came out during an interview...oooof. You can love and appreciate a culture, but ultimately that is not your family and you can't claim that history.

 

[gyngyn]

Also, boy would I be mad if someone who was a Hispanic studies major or studied abroad in college/afterward claimed to have Hispanic heritage. If that came out during an interview...oooof. You can love and appreciate a culture, but ultimately that is not your family and you can't claim that history.

You might be surprised how often we see this.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'd like to see mcat/gpa data for Hispanics based on country of origin. I think that would help Hispanic applicants make more informed choices when they apply.

 

[feather421]

You might be surprised how often we see this.

I'm actually not surprised at all. Race/ethnicity is complicated, and there's room for that complication, but it's just SO ****ty to co-opt someone else's history because you took classes in college. I lived abroad when I was younger for years, but you sure as heck don't see me saying that's my ethnicity.

Blech. I've thought about it more than usual because of the essays/interviews/whatnot.

 

[Me.D.]

So I am white/hispanic and claimed both on my app. Because I look pretty white an interviewer actually asked me WHY I put down hispanic (probably assuming I was lying or something)! Haha I'm glad I am comfortable talking about my mixed heritage - my advice is to be prepared to talk about your's as well!

 

[Lost in Translation]

You might be surprised how often we see this.

This sickens me. I had apprehension when marking Latino on my application for personal reasons I won't discuss, so it infuriates me that someone would LIE about who they are just to gain a perceived advantage. To you adcom members of this forum, I hope every one of you and your colleagues are good at sniffing this crap out.

 

[ZedsDed]

This sickens me. I had apprehension when marking Latino on my application for personal reasons I won't discuss, so it infuriates me that someone would LIE about who they are just to gain a perceived advantage. To you adcom members of this forum, I hope every one of you and your colleagues are good at sniffing this crap out.

I'm Middle-Eastern. I know a person with family from North Africa (i.e. Egypt) who put themselves down as "African"-American. I've heard it's a fairly common tactic.

 

[Chelsea FC]

I think the best answer is how do you view yourself before thinking about applying to med school .. If you didnt view your Hispanic heritage as part of your identity then I wouldnt put it down while applying . But if you do and its factual there is no problem

 

[PikaDocGirl]

Sup, fellow Latina here. There's a section on the AMCAS where you can check both, and then break down your Hispanic heritage to a specific country of origin if you want. Good luck applying!

I'm also mixed, so I know that it can be weird to address one part of your heritage, or you worry you're not "enough"...don't stress. Speak intelligently and genuinely about your experiences, that's what counts. Med schools aren't just after quotas, they want a class with varied perspectives, and that includes yours. Most of my interviews have been with older white gentlemen, and I think the schools are looking to switch that up.

Also, boy would I be mad if someone who was a Hispanic studies major or studied abroad in college/afterward claimed to have Hispanic heritage. If that came out during an interview...oooof. You can love and appreciate a culture, but ultimately that is not your family and you can't claim that history.

Cheers to us latinas who are mixed.

So I am white/hispanic and claimed both on my app. Because I look pretty white an interviewer actually asked me WHY I put down hispanic (probably assuming I was lying or something)! Haha I'm glad I am comfortable talking about my mixed heritage - my advice is to be prepared to talk about your's as well!

I find that extremely rude. Should an interviewer even be allowed to address this question?

I think the best answer is how do you view yourself before thinking about applying to med school .. If you didnt view your Hispanic heritage as part of your identity then I wouldnt put it down while applying . But if you do and its factual there is no problem

This is the problem that I am worried about. My father (who is Hispanic and of Latin American descent) left my mother. So, I was raised by a single white mother. I grew up with mostly my white-side of the family, and while I can pass as white/mixed, everyone thinks I'm Latino, and/or Latino/White mix. I'm confused as to how I should address this in my application. I am obviously not 100% white, nor do I look the part, but I never really grew up or really embraced the Hispanic heritage. I can't even speak Spanish. I took french in high school. In a way, I actually rebelled against Hispanic culture, because it reminded me of my father, and I didn't want to even think about how he could just disappear out of our lives. He had 0 influence in my childhood past the age of 2, and I haven't even spoken to him on the phone in probably 10 years.

I know this is kind of loaded, but any insight would be greatly appreciated, because I personally have no idea how to address this.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Cheers to us latinas who are mixed.

This is the problem that I am worried about. My father (who is Hispanic and of Latin American descent) left my mother. So, I was raised by a single white mother. I grew up with mostly my white-side of the family, and while I can pass as white/mixed, everyone thinks I'm Latino, and/or Latino/White mix. I'm confused as to how I should address this in my application. I am obviously not 100% white, nor do I look the part, but I never really grew up or really embraced the Hispanic heritage. I can't even speak Spanish. I took french in high school. In a way, I actually rebelled against Hispanic culture, because it reminded me of my father, and I didn't want to even think about how he could just disappear out of our lives. He had 0 influence in my childhood past the age of 2, and I haven't even spoken to him on the phone in probably 10 years.

I know this is kind of loaded, but any insight would be greatly appreciated, because I personally have no idea how to address this.

Thank you in advance.

I think you answered your question. You dont Identify as being a part of it and actually gone out of your way to avoid being a part of this culture . So I think it would be ill-advice to put it down now..
You said people just by looking at you they can figure out you're Latina so you at least know how it is living in the shoes of latina/o I think that means for something . But the Hispanic culture I wouldn't put down as you said you dont identify with it our been brought up in it

EDIT: I am just a pre-med just like u so this is my advice .

 

[gyngyn]

I'm Middle-Eastern. I know a person with family from North Africa (i.e. Egypt) who put themselves down as "African"-American. I've heard it's a fairly common tactic.

This is pretty common. This is another reason it is hard to interpret AAMC data tables.

 

[feather421]

I disagree with the poster above. I think that's absolutely a valid way to define yourself, and it I were a student interviewer, that answer would not be a red flag (though maybe I'd phrase it differently, but I get they this is a forum).

Ultimately, it's up to you and how comfortable you'd be discussing this in an interview setting. Your perspective as mixed is valuable, and the Hispanic community is full of people with different experiences, including ones like yours. And there's an argument for marking Hispanic so that we have a more accurate counter of how many Latinxs are in med school.

But like I said, totally up to you. Listen to yourself and your friends and family over the opinion of Internet commentators who don't have a full nuanced view of you and your experiences.

 

[Lost in Translation]

My dad gave me a nice article to read on Latino identity: http://huffpost.com/us/entry/966016

 

[PikaDocGirl]

My dad gave me a nice article to read on Latino identity: http://huffpost.com/us/entry/966016

"In order to continue preserving and celebrating Latin-American culture, all Latinos, regardless of whether or not they fulfill an entirely subjective cultural checklist should be included in the discussion of and promotion of the Latino identity."

I really enjoy this quote. I do believe that I would be one of these Latinos that is considered white-washed, but I am Latino and I am of Latin American descent. Thanks for the help!

 

[Lost in Translation]

You shouldn't need to prove to anyone your Latino heritage. But I would hope that these schools do background checks for people who claim minority status. @Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn do any of your programs probe people who claim to identify as one ethnic or racial group? If so, how do you go about it and have you ever caught a liar?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

You shouldn't need to prove to anyone your Latino heritage. But I would hope that these schools do background checks for people who claim minority status. @Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn do any of your programs probe people who claim to identify as one ethnic or racial group? If so, how do you go about it and have you ever caught a liar?

A minority is not necessarily a URM. For example, East Asians and South Asians are minorities in the US, yet they are over-represented in medicine.

 

[Goro]

We look for evidence of commitment to community. No one is going to ask for a family tree.

You shouldn't need to prove to anyone your Latino heritage. But I would hope that these schools do background checks for people who claim minority status. @Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn do any of your programs probe people who claim to identify as one ethnic or racial group? If so, how do you go about it and have you ever caught a liar?

 

[premed.mom]

Sup, fellow Latina here. There's a section on the AMCAS where you can check both, and then break down your Hispanic heritage to a specific country of origin if you want. Good luck applying!

I'm also mixed, so I know that it can be weird to address one part of your heritage, or you worry you're not "enough"...don't stress. Speak intelligently and genuinely about your experiences, that's what counts. Med schools aren't just after quotas, they want a class with varied perspectives, and that includes yours. Most of my interviews have been with older white gentlemen, and I think the schools are looking to switch that up.

Also, boy would I be mad if someone who was a Hispanic studies major or studied abroad in college/afterward claimed to have Hispanic heritage. If that came out during an interview...oooof. You can love and appreciate a culture, but ultimately that is not your family and you can't claim that history.

Sup, fellow Latina here. There's a section on the AMCAS where you can check both, and then break down your Hispanic heritage to a specific country of origin if you want. Good luck applying!

Thank you for your insight. I am half Latina half white and my mom who is white raised me on her own but always made sure I understood my heritage and that I was part of Hispanic culture as much as she could. It leaves you with racial imposter syndrome which makes you feel like you either not white enough or not brown enough. And then I come on here looking for some kind of advice I can take with a grain of salt and what I read is a bunch of people saying “if you have to ask then you are not” lol.
Sorry I went on a rant but thank you for your words of wisdom I found them very helpful.

 

[dodolol21]

This is pretty common. This is another reason it is hard to interpret AAMC data tables.

So do non-black African Americans still get considered as URM?

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

I doubt anyone will call you on it. Mark whatever you feel that you are.

I am of Antarctica descent. Big time URM here.

 

[LizzyM]

So do non-black African Americans still get considered as URM?

US Census Bureau definition:
Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.
White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.


So what the heck is a non-black African American??
There are non-blacks in Africa who arrived as immigrants or who are the decendants of immigrants. They do not meet the US Census definition of "Black or African-American".

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So do non-black African Americans still get considered as URM?

No. It seems like it’s really just a PC way of saying Black. Which is dumb because I’ve never heard of the term black as being offensive.

 

[Goro]

So do non-black African Americans still get considered as URM?

If you're talking about Afrikaans (white South Africans), or Arabs from north of the Sahel, the answer is no.

If you're Nigerian or Tanzanian, then yes.

 

[Rajaredhilu]

if you can speak spanish and you have ancestry from latin america id do it. There are people with just one black grandparent who get in as URMs, anecdotaly ofc

 

[altblue]

if you can speak spanish and you have ancestry from latin america id do it. There are people with just one black grandparent who get in as URMs, anecdotaly ofc

The original post is approaching 3 years old lol

 

[Rajaredhilu]

The original post is approaching 3 years old lol

Oh shoot, youre right. hahahaha i hadnt even noticed. I wonder if it helped them

 

[LizzyM]

Oh shoot, youre right. hahahaha i hadnt even noticed. I wonder if it helped them

It is quite amazing that a thread with URM in the title has managed to stay open for 3 years. Bravo, everyone!

 

[Goro]

It is quite amazing that a thread with URM in the title has managed to stay open for 3 years. Bravo, everyone!

And not get dumped into the SPF!

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

It is quite amazing that a thread with URM in the title has managed to stay open for 3 years. Bravo, everyone!

Don't speak too quick. It might get closed this year, no it will get closed this year. I'm willing to put money on it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It is quite amazing that a thread with URM in the title has managed to stay open for 3 years. Bravo, everyone!

It slipped through the cracks and went dormant. Now that it’s awoken, it’s sure to destroy itself.

 

[Sunday11]

I have a similar question. I am half Hispanic and half white, and on my AMCAS I checked both the Hispanic and the white boxes as I identify equally with both. I recently got an email inviting me to an URM dinner after one if my interview invites. However, my dilemma is that I look much more like my dads side of the family which is white/Italian. I didn’t really get any of my moms Latina features. I’m worried that if I go to this dinner I won’t look “Latina” enough and the other applicants/ADCOM members will judge me for it and possibly question my ethnicity. It’s my top choice school and I don’t want to negatively impact my chances.


Should I still go to this dinner even if I don’t look Latina? Will it look bad to admissions if I don’t go?

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

I have a similar question. I am half Hispanic and half white, and on my AMCAS I checked both the Hispanic and the white boxes as I identify equally with both. I recently got an email inviting me to an URM dinner after one if my interview invites. However, my dilemma is that I look much more like my dads side of the family which is white/Italian. I didn’t really get any of my moms Latina features. I’m worried that if I go to this dinner I won’t look “Latina” enough and the other applicants/ADCOM members will judge me for it and possibly question my ethnicity. It’s my top choice school and I don’t want to negatively impact my chances.


Should I still go to this dinner even if I don’t look Latina? Will it look bad to admissions if I don’t go?

It doesn't matter what you look like, if you identify as URM (or half) then go to the dinner. It's 2018, I think we've all (hopefully)learned by now that you can't determine what a person is just by looking at them.

 

[Wahkoon]

I have a similar question. I am half Hispanic and half white, and on my AMCAS I checked both the Hispanic and the white boxes as I identify equally with both. I recently got an email inviting me to an URM dinner after one if my interview invites. However, my dilemma is that I look much more like my dads side of the family which is white/Italian. I didn’t really get any of my moms Latina features. I’m worried that if I go to this dinner I won’t look “Latina” enough and the other applicants/ADCOM members will judge me for it and possibly question my ethnicity. It’s my top choice school and I don’t want to negatively impact my chances.


Should I still go to this dinner even if I don’t look Latina? Will it look bad to admissions if I don’t go?

You said you equally identify as both, so you are more than welcome to attend the dinner. Self-identity and community involvement are indicators of ethnicity, not appearance.