Does it matter what school you graduated from?

[Eddie17]

Ok...so I always see people putting their GPAs on certain threads, but never saying which school they attended. Does it not matter what college you graduated from? To me, GPAs don't mean too much without accompanying the university in which they were received. I know adcoms always try and say that they accept people from all schools and what not, but come on a 4.00 from some unheard of university with no prestige may be equivalent to a 3.5 from a harder, more prestigous university. Is this not right?

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[solstice]

That is exactly why we have to take DAT!

BTW Non-famous univerity does not mean bad or easy university.

 

[americanpierg]

That is exactly why we have to take DAT!

BTW Non-famous univerity does not mean bad or easy university.

Yup, DAT all the way. A school where the kids arent so bright (and therefore you're smarter than everyone else) will push the curve in your favor, while a school where everyone is as smart if not smarter than you will push the curve against your favor. Stanford (since everyone knows harvard has a grade inflation epidemic) vs a 1000 student body liberal arts college in the middle of wyoming. That's why all those 4.0s with 17AAs are so fishy.

 

[Eddie17]

I understand that...but don't those students from more hard, prestigous schools get an advantage, or not...the DAT is important in all, but it just seems to me that one's performance at a 4 year institution is more indicative of intelligence...and im not saying that unheard of schools are bad or anything, but those that are known world wide are most likely famous for a reason...I think it's very important what school one graduated from!

 

[solstice]

I understand that...but don't those students from more hard, prestigous schools get an advantage, or not...the DAT is important in all, but it just seems to me that one's performance at a 4 year institution is more indicative of intelligence...and im not saying that unheard of schools are bad or anything, but those that are known world wide are most likely famous for a reason...I think it's very important what school one graduated from!

Yeah, they were built when there was no other schools in the new world.

 

[slm266]

I understand that...but don't those students from more hard, prestigous schools get an advantage, or not...the DAT is important in all, but it just seems to me that one's performance at a 4 year institution is more indicative of intelligence...and im not saying that unheard of schools are bad or anything, but those that are known world wide are most likely famous for a reason...I think it's very important what school one graduated from!

Are you still asking a question, or just wish people would indicate what school they got their gpa from so you can compare yourself to them? Those with higher a higher GPA will post them, and those with lower GPAs wont. Don't worry about noticing a lot of high gpas. Keep your gpa up and make yourself a great package.

 

[alanan84]

Are you still asking a question, or just wish people would indicate what school they got their gpa from so you can compare yourself to them? Those with higher a higher GPA will post them, and those with lower GPAs wont. Don't worry about noticing a lot of high gpas. Keep your gpa up and make yourself a great package.

This is the classic thread started by someone from a "prestigous" university with a below average GPA trying to get a self esteem boost.

The answer to your question is yes I think dental schools give students from a "harder" university a little more breathing room. However, if your school is soooo hard, you better blow the DAT out of the water.

 

[DLC9647]

You know it's funny that people always post about "curves" and their injustice......those people are usually on the low end and would have been even lower if there wasn't for a curve....for the most part curves only help grades, no professor I ever had took somebody's 95 and made it a 75.....get an A and no one will take it from you...and do well on the DAT and there's less room for school vs school debate.......

People go to various schools (State schools, community, Ivys, etc...) for a wide variety of personal reasons..financial for example..people also get into Stanford (for example) because they run fast......professional schools are on to this and the 'prestige' of your school means far less than it once did....I went to a top school and loved it...but it's hard to justify what it cost.....I've since taken classes at a state school and community college and saw no difference in quality of education...education is what you make of it....not what name is on your diploma......sorry Eddie, I'm in the same boat. The ivy covered walls on campus' mean much less than we'd like.....and ironically I agree with that. Presitge and school difficulty are not necessarily correlated.

 

[ucla2134]

Man, if i had transfer to Cal State, i would have 4.0 on my transcript. But i am so happy that i chose UCLA, it is challenging environment; thus i believe that being pushed by the professor and the peer at UCLA make me ready for grad school. Just my 2 cents
I think Case dental school, for instance, look at where you go to undergrad, it was specified on their website too.

 

[Eddie17]

This is the classic thread started by someone from a "prestigous" university with a below average GPA trying to get a self esteem boost.

Ok...so, this is not that "classic" thread, and no I don't have a below average GPA or a below average DAT, and I do not need a self-esteem boost from anyone (especially people I don't know)...but it's probably that my physics professor was harder and smarter than yours (Prof. Smoot), winning the Nobel prize in 2006 in physics and where his uncovering of ripples in space dating from the early universe was called "the discovery of the century, if not of all time," by Stephen Hawking. And no, I'm not saying there is a direct correlation b/w nobel prize winners and difficulty, but I started this thread because if it were true that dental programs really didn't care about what school you come from, it seems pointless to even ask it on the application. You might as well just put your GPA and DAT, and just leave out where you graduated from.

 

[wantVCUdental]

I think schools will definitely consider it, though it won't be as great an influence as DAT or GPA on your chances at admission.
Going to tough school doesn't mean the material is harder, a tough school is where all the students are keeners. yes 1+1=2, you'll be taught that at a CC or a state school or at harvard. But at CC, you'll see 1+1=? on the test, whereas, at harvard, you'll be challenged because you are expected to master the material, so instead of asking you directly on what you are taught, you'll probably see something like 2-1=?
Also, no school will allow a whole class of As, even at the easiest schools, someone has to get a lower grade. So at a CC, it might be easy to stand out and get that A, however at harvard, you might pull all-nighters everday and still average a B.
In the end the materials are the same, but students from tough schools are stronger because they mastered the material. And even when their gpas are lower, it doesn't mean they are dumber.

After the GPA and DAT filter, i am sure dental schools look at where you are from 😛 (That's right, my 2.85 from cornell means a 4.0 at some stupid state school mwahaha!) <------that was a joke

 

[alanan84]

This is the classic thread started by someone from a "prestigous" university with a below average GPA trying to get a self esteem boost.

Ok...so, this is not that "classic" thread, and no I don't have a below average GPA or a below average DAT, and I do not need a self-esteem boost from anyone (especially people I don't know)...but it's probably that my physics professor was harder and smarter than yours (Prof. Smoot), winning the Nobel prize in 2006 in physics and where his uncovering of ripples in space dating from the early universe was called "the discovery of the century, if not of all time," by Stephen Hawking. And no, I'm not saying there is a direct correlation b/w nobel prize winners and difficulty, but I started this thread because if it were true that dental programs really didn't care about what school you come from, it seems pointless to even ask it on the application. You might as well just put your GPA and DAT, and just leave out where you graduated from.

Looks like you've answered your own question.

I guess I'll just tell you what you want to hear. Once dental schools see what school you're from, they'll fly you in first class for a one-on-one with the dean to discuss scholarship options.

 

[longhornpride]

You know it's funny that people always post about "curves" and their injustice......those people are usually on the low end and would have been even lower if there wasn't for a curve....for the most part curves only help grades, no professor I ever had took somebody's 95 and made it a 75.....get an A and no one will take it from you...and do well on the DAT and there's less room for school vs school debate.......

People go to various schools (State schools, community, Ivys, etc...) for a wide variety of personal reasons..financial for example..people also get into Stanford (for example) because they run fast......professional schools are on to this and the 'prestige' of your school means far less than it once did....I went to a top school and loved it...but it's hard to justify what it cost.....I've since taken classes at a state school and community college and saw no difference in quality of education...education is what you make of it....not what name is on your diploma......sorry Eddie, I'm in the same boat. The ivy covered walls on campus' mean much less than we'd like.....and ironically I agree with that. Presitge and school difficulty are not necessarily correlated.

I'm not agreeing with the orginal poster, but this is false. I have had two classes where the professor curved down. For example, I made an 86 in a science class, but ended up with a C. That's what happens when there are nothing but very smart people in your class.

 

[DLC9647]

I'm not agreeing with the orginal poster, but this is false. I have had two classes where the professor curved down. For example, I made an 86 in a science class, but ended up with a C. That's what happens when there are nothing but very smart people in your class.

Wow, sorry to hear that...that's sucks......I don't think curves should ever bring a grade down. Professor's need to look at their tests if their scaling down. My point was that if you get a perfect score (or close)...how can a professor say you're not worthy of A? If the test were alot harder, you still could have received an A.....but I guess they're doing it? That doesn't seem right....

 

[solstice]

I'm not agreeing with the orginal poster, but this is false. I have had two classes where the professor curved down. For example, I made an 86 in a science class, but ended up with a C. That's what happens when there are nothing but very smart people in your class.

Yes, it could happen, I also had 4 biology classes and LABs where we would curve down. Also another class that we had -ve score for wrong answers!!👎

 

[solstice]

Looks like you've answered your own question.

I guess I'll just tell you what you want to hear. Once dental schools see what school you're from, they'll fly you in first class for a one-on-one with the dean to discuss scholarship options.

 

[DLC9647]

I think schools will definitely consider it, though it won't be as great an influence as DAT or GPA on your chances at admission.
Going to tough school doesn't mean the material is harder, a tough school is where all the students are keeners. yes 1+1=2, you'll be taught that at a CC or a state school or at harvard. But at CC, you'll see 1+1=? on the test, whereas, at harvard, you'll be challenged because you are expected to master the material, so instead of asking you directly on what you are taught, you'll probably see something like 2-1=?
Also, no school will allow a whole class of As, even at the easiest schools, someone has to get a lower grade. So at a CC, it might be easy to stand out and get that A, however at harvard, you might pull all-nighters everday and still average a B.
In the end the materials are the same, but students from tough schools are stronger because they mastered the material. And even when their gpas are lower, it doesn't mean they are dumber.

After the GPA and DAT filter, i am sure dental schools look at where you are from 😛 (That's right, my 2.85 from cornell means a 4.0 at some stupid state school mwahaha!) <------that was a joke

How do you know that? Have you seen both? I've been to both a top private university and community college science classes and the tests were on par with each other. Just my experience Thinking that your tests are harder at Cornell vs a state school is so pretentious. Sorry guys...I wish it were true, but our fancy school names don't mean as much as we think (or wish)

 

[solstice]

How do you know that? Have you seen both? I've been to both a top private university and community college science classes and the tests were on par with each other. Just my experience Thinking that your tests are harder at Cornell vs a state school is so pretentious. Sorry guys...I wish it were true, but our fancy school names don't mean as much as we think (or wish)

I agree. Again I guess that is why we have DAT, otherwise they would just convert the GPA of each school based on a cold sheet to standardize it.
BTW one of my biology professors at the university was also teaching part time in a CC. You think he would change the exams and would teach different materials?

 

[solstice]

OH and I forgot something else.

How many of you know a professor who moved from "prestigous" school to teach in another less known university either due to salary or research oppurtunity. I personally know a few. I am sure the material they teach would be the same. So who has a right to say that a person who attended unknown university is less educated and his/her GPA should be scaled down compared to other "presigous" "well known" university.

And remember we are talking about US education system. All univerities and CCs have certain standards and accredidation of their own if they are to maintain their funding and reasearch projects.

 

[StayinFlossy]

i was told at 2 interviews nlast year "yes, your gpa is a little below average, but we take into account that you come from a competitive school" take that and run kiddies

 

[Oracle DMD]

even from the most "prestigous" schools, consider your self getting a .2 gpa wiggleroom. all of this "oh i woulda had a 4.0 at state!" is nonsense.....or you shoulda went to state! haha with the same DAT i would MUCH rather be a 4.0 from state than a 3.6 from ivy u. you should actually have a gpa reduction for overpaying for an undergrad degree lol!

 

[Eddie17]

Thank you so much for proving my point "stayinflossy"....it only makes sense to consider it.

 

[Vicviper]

*sigh* I hate when these threads devolve into pissing matches.

I'm sure that as long as your GPA is at a reasonable level, say at least 3.0, if you went to one of the ultra-competitive schools, you might get get some minor leeway, solely because of curves being thrown off by a class full of highly intelligent students. But again, I couldn't imagine much more than .2 as Oracle said. The DAT is what schools use to really separate the men from the boys (or women from the girls as appropriate 🙂 ).

And just because your professor has a number of awards on his wall doesn't mean he can teach worth a pile of beans, that's a totally different skill set. I just get so irritated when kids from these "elite" schools think they're the bee's knees and everyone else is getting the easy classes.

 

[slm266]

Ha that dr smoot comment was awesome.

Anyways, yes adcoms do take it into consideration, but u shouldn't use it as a crutch. Kill the thread?

 

[txlonghorn]

Did you consider the fact that your prestigious school probably inflates the grades of its students? The only top school that I know that still maintains somewhat of a bell curve is the University of Chicago. Other than that, most of the prestigious schools graduate students with like a 3.3 or something. I think Dartmouth actually provides students their transcripts with their grade vs. peer grades on their reports. I don't think dental schools do this, but I know for a fact that some law schools apply the Berkeley method, which standardizes a person's gpa based on inflation. This means that you might be docked a couple of points for going to a school with high grade inflation.

Since you attended a higher ranked school, you probably did well on your standardized tests when you applied out of high school. I would assume that if you studied hard, you could probably do well on the DAT. However, the DAT is a bit different from other standardized tests though.

Oh, and state schools or less prestigious schools are not any easier. I went to a state school for undergrad, but did not have a science major. Instead, I went to the "prestigious"business school within the state school, where most of the students had stats similar to most schools you would consider prestigious. I am now taking science classes for my prereqs at an open enrollment university. The science classes are not easy, they might be a bit easier, but not easy. They just fail more than 50 % of the class here, where as in a prestigious school, most of these students would make a C or something.

 

[uncbestyet]

They just fail more than 50 % of the class here

most of the prestigious schools graduate students with like a 3.3 or something

where as in a prestigious school, most of these students would make a C or something

3.3 does not equal C, C=2.0

 

[txlonghorn]

3.3 does not equal C, C=2.0

I was referring to the students who do not try - they get by with a C instead of an F, as they do at this local school. I was not referring to "average" students who do have a gpa closer to a 3.3

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Here's my thought on this.

Why does it matter what kind of school you go to? If you work your butt off in college, you will most likely get rewarded! Period!!! I went to Podunk College in Buttplug, USA. Our college has a very high success rate of getting into ALL types of health professional schools. Realistically, I wouldn't have wanted to go to a huge, prestigous school. I got an excellent education that prepared me well for dental school for a very small fraction of the cost. I paid $540 for my first semester of college with NO scholarships. I still got into all schools I appklied to and will have the same degree in the end as those who went to prestigous schools - DDS!

If I needed assistance, I always had access to the professor for assistance. I didn't have to ask his assistant or a masters or PhD student. I took courses that pertained to dental school that a good portion of classmates hadn't taken. When it came to time for writing my LORs, it was very easy to get a well written, sincere committee letter since every member of the committee I had in at least 2 courses.

I believe that going to a small 4 year college allowed me to not have feel the effects of geting denied into d-schools. Personally, I recommend to any high schooler I know to go to a small 4 year college like I did if they want to go to any of the health profession schools. I think a person's chances are actually better.

 

[Vicviper]

Great post Navy, I totally agree, especially with the professor availability point.

 

[doc3232]

It isn't coincidence that the argument people make is actually what would be best for them (Student from "prestigious" school argues that adcoms notice the difficulty of the undergrad and students from non-"prestigious" schools argue the other way).
Basically, everyone is biased.

 

[americanpierg]

Here's my thought on this.

Why does it matter what kind of school you go to? If you work your butt off in college, you will most likely get rewarded! Period!!! I went to Podunk College in Buttplug, USA. Our college has a very high success rate of getting into ALL types of health professional schools. Realistically, I wouldn't have wanted to go to a huge, prestigous school. I got an excellent education that prepared me well for dental school for a very small fraction of the cost. I paid $540 for my first semester of college with NO scholarships. I still got into all schools I appklied to and will have the same degree in the end as those who went to prestigous schools - DDS!

If I needed assistance, I always had access to the professor for assistance. I didn't have to ask his assistant or a masters or PhD student. I took courses that pertained to dental school that a good portion of classmates hadn't taken. When it came to time for writing my LORs, it was very easy to get a well written, sincere committee letter since every member of the committee I had in at least 2 courses.

I believe that going to a small 4 year college allowed me to not have feel the effects of geting denied into d-schools. Personally, I recommend to any high schooler I know to go to a small 4 year college like I did if they want to go to any of the health profession schools. I think a person's chances are actually better.

This really just proved the point of this entire thread. EASIER smaller schools >>>>>>> HARDER more prestigious. The ONLY reason of going to a hard school for undergrad if you are planning on working right out of college. If not, the smartest thing you can do for your school is go to a college where tuition is $500 a semester, get your 4.00 GPA with minimal work, spend all your effort on studying for the DAT, and you're home free for dental school!

Now of course, this might severely hurt your chances of specializing if you were planning to, but if your goal was just to get into dental school, NO PROBLEM, youre in!

 

[12345a]

Ok...so, this is not that "classic" thread, and no I don't have a below average GPA or a below average DAT, and I do not need a self-esteem boost from anyone (especially people I don't know)...but it's probably that my physics professor was harder and smarter than yours (Prof. Smoot), .

I bet you would know!

good ol' sexual innuendo

...and there is my 2 cents to this useless thread

 

[armorshell]

Now of course, this might severely hurt your chances of specializing if you were planning to, but if your goal was just to get into dental school, NO PROBLEM, youre in!

I'm excited to hear how this makes sense.

 

[americanpierg]

I'm excited to hear how this makes sense.

If you had two kids, one who got a 4.0 from a small college in the middle of nowhere, and a kid who got a 3.7 from stanford, which one would u say would have the better chance of becoming a top 10% student in his class and scoring a 91+ on the board?? Sure they may both be just as smart, but on average, the kid from stanford will be much more prepared for the rigors and competitiveness of dental schoool, especially among those students who are fighting for the few spots available to ortho.


Sure, taking shortcuts in college and picking the "easy" route might get you into dental school much easier, but if you're planning on specializing, it will only hurt you in the long run when you're competing against kids who worked their butt off in ivy schools and already learned stuff you've never even covered. When your success if based on a generous curve bcause of the lack of intelligence of others, get ready for a real shock when everyone else is as smart if not much smarter than you. Now, if all you want to do is become a DDS, then yes, the smartest choice you will ever make is to attend the easiest 4 year accredited college you can find.

I guarantee you, if there are any statistics available detailing which undergrad current ortho residents went to, probably 9 out of every 10, would be from top 100 universities.

 

[Futuredds2010]

If you had two kids, one who got a 4.0 from a small college in the middle of nowhere, and a kid who got a 3.7 from stanford, which one would u say would have the better chance of becoming a top 10% student in his class and scoring a 91+ on the board?? Sure they may both be just as smart, but on average, the kid from stanford will be much more prepared for the rigors and competitiveness of dental schoool, especially among those students who are fighting for the few spots available to ortho.


Sure, taking shortcuts in college and picking the "easy" route might get you into dental school much easier, but if you're planning on specializing, it will only hurt you in the long run when you're competing against kids who worked their butt off in ivy schools and already learned stuff you've never even covered. When your success if based on a generous curve bcause of the lack of intelligence of others, get ready for a real shock when everyone else is as smart if not much smarter than you. Now, if all you want to do is become a DDS, then yes, the smartest choice you will ever make is to attend the easiest 4 year accredited college you can find.

I guarantee you, if there are any statistics available detailing which undergrad current ortho residents went to, probably 9 out of every 10, would be from top 100 universities.

PREACH!!! haha I totally agree!!! 👍

 

[armorshell]

If you had two kids, one who got a 4.0 from a small college in the middle of nowhere, and a kid who got a 3.7 from stanford, which one would u say would have the better chance of becoming a top 10% student in his class and scoring a 91+ on the board?? Sure they may both be just as smart, but on average, the kid from stanford will be much more prepared for the rigors and competitiveness of dental schoool, especially among those students who are fighting for the few spots available to ortho.


Sure, taking shortcuts in college and picking the "easy" route might get you into dental school much easier, but if you're planning on specializing, it will only hurt you in the long run when you're competing against kids who worked their butt off in ivy schools and already learned stuff you've never even covered. When your success if based on a generous curve bcause of the lack of intelligence of others, get ready for a real shock when everyone else is as smart if not much smarter than you. Now, if all you want to do is become a DDS, then yes, the smartest choice you will ever make is to attend the easiest 4 year accredited college you can find.

I guarantee you, if there are any statistics available detailing which undergrad current ortho residents went to, probably 9 out of every 10, would be from top 100 universities.

Wow, the top 100 universities? I'd say that's a fair bet. Can we also say that over 99% of them will have two hands with five fingers each?
I'd be willing to bet the percentage of ortho residents from top 100 schools is correlated with the percentage of dental students from top 100 schools.

Again, you're unfortunately making the (false) assumption that smaller, non-prestigious school = easy. You're also blatently confusing correlation with causation and seem delusional about how things are conducted at "inferior" schools.

Just for anecdotal fun, despite that a large majority of my 138 strong class came from top 100 (even top 25!) universities, none of them are in the top 3. All of the highest achievers came from >100 ranked schools.

 

[americanpierg]

It isn't coincidence that the argument people make is actually what would be best for them (Student from "prestigious" school argues that adcoms notice the difficulty of the undergrad and students from non-"prestigious" schools argue the other way).
Basically, everyone is biased.

This is the smartest thing anyone in these type of arguements has ever said.

I didn't go to an ivy league, I go to a top 50 school, but I CAN admit that on AVERAGE, people at the TOP schools, ivy leagues and what not, are SMARTER than people at my school. This means the competetion for grades at those schools are HARDER than at my schools. Would I mind if someone said my gpa is inflated compared to theirs, NO, its 100% true!

Now I don't understand when kids who go to small universities that are everyone elses's backup can't agree to this either. Sure, you were smart enough to get into harvard, but you didnt have the money. Would you have done as well at harvard, SURE. Would you have had to work HARDER at harvard to do as well, DEFINATELY.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

This really just proved the point of this entire thread. EASIER smaller schools >>>>>>> HARDER more prestigious. The ONLY reason of going to a hard school for undergrad if you are planning on working right out of college. If not, the smartest thing you can do for your school is go to a college where tuition is $500 a semester, get your 4.00 GPA with minimal work, spend all your effort on studying for the DAT, and you're home free for dental school!

Now of course, this might severely hurt your chances of specializing if you were planning to, but if your goal was just to get into dental school, NO PROBLEM, youre in!

No, you looked at my post in the wrong way. I didn't say anything about small schools being easier in content or that smaller schools are given higher grades as what the OP is stating. I am saying that by going to a smaller school, you are afforded the opportunity of getting more of a one on one education and can actually approach a prof for help when needed. Just because you can get help, doesn't mean the classes are easier or that I didn't EARN my grades. And who said you can go to a small school and get a 4.0 with minimal work? I didn't. I worked my butt off in college to earn my good grades. NOTHING was handed to me!!! With that hard work, I was rewarded with every acceptance I got!

Now, where do you get this idea that going to a no name college will hurt your chances of specializing? Your undergrad school has nothing to do with specializing. If you are saying that going to a small school won't get you into a prestigous d-school where specializing is the norm, then you are wrong. Many no name college applicants get into the 'so-called' prestigous school. I had the opportunity and turned it down. Specializing depends on how well you do in dental school. How you did on the boards. Research. Recommendations from the faculty in the specialty you are applying to. NOT from your undergrad. If that is the case, three of my friends would never have gotten into Ortho, OMS and Endo. Wake up and get back in touch with reality.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

If you had two kids, one who got a 4.0 from a small college in the middle of nowhere, and a kid who got a 3.7 from stanford, which one would u say would have the better chance of becoming a top 10% student in his class and scoring a 91+ on the board?? Sure they may both be just as smart, but on average, the kid from stanford will be much more prepared for the rigors and competitiveness of dental schoool, especially among those students who are fighting for the few spots available to ortho.


Sure, taking shortcuts in college and picking the "easy" route might get you into dental school much easier, but if you're planning on specializing, it will only hurt you in the long run when you're competing against kids who worked their butt off in ivy schools and already learned stuff you've never even covered. When your success if based on a generous curve bcause of the lack of intelligence of others, get ready for a real shock when everyone else is as smart if not much smarter than you. Now, if all you want to do is become a DDS, then yes, the smartest choice you will ever make is to attend the easiest 4 year accredited college you can find.

I guarantee you, if there are any statistics available detailing which undergrad current ortho residents went to, probably 9 out of every 10, would be from top 100 universities.

You make a lot of assumptions. I will agree that you are more likely to have a higher percentage of residents come from big universities. That is easy to say since the number of people who apply to d-school are proportionally a lot higher than small schools. but what you are not considering is that there are a lot of smart people who didn;t get scholarships (or enough scholarships) to afford to go to big time universities. Just because a person got a 4.0 at a small college doesn't mean aren't as smart if not smarter than the 3.7 at Stanford. The most intelligent person I know was a classmate of mine in undergrad. He was offered slots at Harvard, Dartmoth, the AF Academy along with a couple other schools, but in the end he couldn't take them because he got his girlfriend pregnant. He worked a couple years so he could save up for college. He went to Podunk College with me. The guy had a photographic memory and understood everything that was taught. I busted my butt off for my grades where the info just came to him. Your agruement doesn't take into account that there are a lot of very smart people that have reasons why they cannot or don't want to go to a large school.

Going to a large school doesn't mean you are smarter. It just means you either had the money to go, didn't have other obligations or you didn't screw off in high school and were able to get accepted into a top tier school for undergrad.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Prove me wrong.

No one can prove an idiot wrong. They're too ignorant to know they are wrong or their arguement is flawed.

You make so many assumptions that are so filled with holes that you can distort your statements any which way you want. I am not going to try to continue to show how your thinking is flawed because I would be wasting my time trying to get it through your head that just because a person goes to a small school doesn't mean they aren't as intelligent or more intelligent than their counterparts in d-school.

Here are the cold hard facts!!! Smart students get into d-school - whether it be from a small college or a big name university. How they got there makes no difference. How they did in undergrad doesn't matter. What matters is how they do in d-school.

No matter what, you don't have to be the smartest in the class to be in the top 10%. The material is not hard. There is just a lot of it. If you are dedicated to your studies in d-school and have great had skills, then getting in the top 10% is obtainable even if you weren't the smartest in college, but just happened to get in. Plus, you assume that you have to be in the top 10% to get into an ortho slot. I know a person who was at the 23%ile in their class and had an 89 who got into ortho right out of d-school. I know someone who was around the 35th %ile and got into OMS right out of d-school.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

It isn't coincidence that the argument people make is actually what would be best for them (Student from "prestigious" school argues that adcoms notice the difficulty of the undergrad and students from non-"prestigious" schools argue the other way).
Basically, everyone is biased.

Yes, there is a certain biasness in what I say, but I also do consider the entire picture. I have nothing to prove as I am in d-school already and don't plan on specializing. So, the arguements don't affect me, therefore I can separate myself for the most part when making my case. Plus, I don't need to prove that my education at my big prestigous school was necessary to get where I want to be in life.

It really must suck for Ivy Leaguers who have plotted their lives out and spent butt loads of money going to that school to see that you can go to a smaller college, get into d-school from the small college and still do exceptionally well in d-school and get into the residency of yor choice.

Personally, I have need to prove whether or not my penis is larger than any one else's. All that matters is that mine works well enough to get the job done and that everyone is satified with the results!

 

[americanpierg]

Again, you're unfortunately making the (false) assumption that smaller, non-prestigious school = easy. You're also blatently confusing correlation with causation and seem delusional about how things are conducted at "inferior" schools.

9 out of 10 times, No Name School = BACKUP School

The majority of college courses are graded on a curve. These grades are what determines your GPA. To ultimately succeed in any of these classes, all you have to do is do better than the majority of the people and beat the curve. If the top 10% of the people get a 4.0, this ultimately means that you don't even need to know all the material or master it, you just need to know more of the material than 90% of your classmates. Being at a BETTER school where people are SMARTER and the competition is BETTER PUSHES you to be better, pushes you learn and know more, etc. How much more would we study if suddenly schools required a 24AA to get into dental schoool? People wouldn't be shooting for 20s anymore, they would be shooting for 30s. They would be studying 200x as much to get that near perfect 24AA.



The people who get into a school like Princeton, Stanford, or Harvard are already some of the smartest kids in the country coming out of highschool. THESE are the kids you will be competing with if you go to Princeton, Stanford, or Harvard for undergrad.

The people who got into a 4,000 student body liberal arts college in the middle of no where most of the time were not able to get into a better college. They are competing against kids who also werent "smart" enough to get into better colleges. Does this mean everyone who goes to this 4,000 student body is not as smart? No, but it does mean the majority of their classesmates arent as smart.


When you are attending a small no name college, you are, ON AVERAGE, competing against WEAKER competition. You aren't as driven to be the best you can be when 75% already gets you a 4.0 because of the ridiculous curve, where as at a school where there is more competition, a 92% would get you a 4.0. You won't be spending those extra nights in the library learning minute details that might show up on the exam when you know everyone else isnt smart enough to know them too. When you reach the big leagues (DENTAL SCHOOL), you will suddenly face kids who are actually smart, and you will find you will have to work your ass off to make your grades and class standing strong enough to match into specialities. They are used to competing against the best, while you ARE NOT. Analogy in sports: if you're scoring 30 points per game in a Japanese Basketball League, this does you no good because your competition is so weak. Once you come over to the NBA, you ill find competition on the likes of LEBRON and KOBE and end up only scoring like 30 TOTAL points over an entire season. Playing against the best only makes you BETTER becuase it pushes you HARDER, having to compete against kids at Harvard in ungrad only prepares you BETTER for the difficulty task of competing against kids in dental school and succeeding in MATCHING to a competitive speciality.

THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. BUT people are always biased. Nothing has been more true than what doc3232 in post #30.

SO, to make this easier for you to understand. Dental schoool at UPENN and Howard. (I don't know if they rank students or whatnot, since Harvard doesnt provide a ranking after top 10% or something, but if they do) When applying to specialities, assuming board scores are disregarded, (because we seem to be disregarding DAT scores on the GPA debate too) which is given more weight, being a top 5 student at UPENN or being a top 5 student at Howard? Which is EASIER, becoming a top 5 student at UPENN, or becoming a top 5 student at Howard?

NO way you can read that and honestly tell me both are "the same" when there is such a big discrepancy in the stats of their matriculates. This is NO DIFFERENT than this dicussion with undergrad. Your competition at being the top student at UPENN is SO MUCH greater than your competition at Howard. This is EXACTLY the same as if you're comparing your GPA from a small non name university (where the majority are people who couldnt get into a better univeristy, ie dental eqv. of "Howard," though even more extreme) to a top teir like an ivy league. Howard is the dental "backup" school. No Name UNiversity is the undergrad "backup" school.


Prove me wrong.

 

[armorshell]

The majority of college courses are graded on a curve. These grades are what determines your GPA. To ultimately succeed in any of these classes, all you have to do is do better than the majority of the people and beat the curve. If the top 10% of the people get a 4.0, this ultimately means that you don't even need to know all the material or master it, you just need to know more of the material than 90% of your classmates. Being at a BETTER school where people are SMARTER and the competition is BETTER PUSHES you to be better, pushes you learn and know more, etc.

Well, I went to one of your >100 ranked colleges, and I never had a course with a curve. All grading was non-competitive, and averages for "weeder" courses were ridiculously low.

Why don't you explain how the rampant grade inflation reported to be present at many of these "top" universities fits into this scheme?

THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. BUT people are always biased.

SO, to make this easier for you to understand. Dental schoool at UPENN and Howard. (I don't know if they rank students or whatnot, since Harvard doesnt provide a ranking after top 10% or something, but if they do) When applying to specialities, assuming board scores are disregarded, (because we seem to be disregarding DAT scores on the GPA debate too) which is given more weight, being a top 5 student at UPENN or being a top 5 student at Howard? Which is EASIER, becoming a top 5 student at UPENN, or becoming a top 5 student at Howard?

Yes, I understood your argument the first time, there's no need to restate it. I do however like how you cleverly ignored my first-hand experience in your reply.

I don't know whether becoming a top 10% student is easier at Howard or UPenn. Do you? You have 1 piece of information (Entering academic statistics), but you know absolutely nothing else (Similarly to how you don't know seemingly anything about how many undergrad schools operate) . How are the courses graded? What are the instructors like? Is the grading competitive (Curved)? How are ranks calculated. Etc...

This is why we have things like boards exams/DAT, which make looking at something like GPA/rank comparisons between schools irrelevant.

NO way you can read that and honestly tell me both are "the same" when there is such a big discrepancy in the stats of their matriculates. This is NO DIFFERENT than this dicussion with undergrad. Your competition at being the top student at UPENN is SO MUCH greater than your competition at Howard. This is EXACTLY the same as if you're comparing your GPA from a small non name university (where the majority are people who couldnt get into a better univeristy, ie dental eqv. of "Howard," though even more extreme) to a top teir like an ivy league.

There is no way I can tell you they are the same, because I have not attended either of these schools (Neither have you, at least I assume). Even then the dynamic would change from class to class. Also, you seem to be forgetting that, despite entering statistics, >50% of credit bearing coursework at any dental school in the country will be non-didactic, for which no academic entering statistic (PAT is the closest, but still not good) is a good predictor.

Personally I believe that rank (or GPA in the undergrad scenario) is a great indicator of "hard work", or the amount of backbone the person put into their education. The entrance exam "verifies" the GPA.

Thus, in my world view at least, a GPA might as well not exist without something else showing you what it's worth.

Prove me wrong.

First of all,the burden of proof is on the claimant. Not that there's anyway you (or anyone) could prove any of this. It's all based on opinion, anecdotal evidence, correlation and common sense.

 

[americanpierg]

The most intelligent person I know was a classmate of mine in undergrad. He was offered slots at Harvard, Dartmoth, the AF Academy along with a couple other schools, but in the end he couldn't take them because he got his girlfriend pregnant. He worked a couple years so he could save up for college. He went to Podunk College with me. The guy had a photographic memory and understood everything that was taught. I busted my butt off for my grades where the info just came to him. Your agruement doesn't take into account that there are a lot of very smart people that have reasons why they cannot or don't want to go to a large school.

Okay, bravo, your friend was smart and went to a small college. Is he smart, FOR SURE. would he have had to work HARDER to get the same GPA as he did at your college if he went to harvard. DEFINATELY considering his competetion would be kids JUST AS SMART if not smarter than him. Do you not understand this?

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Okay, bravo, your friend was smart and went to a small college. Is he smart, FOR SURE. would he have had to work HARDER to get the same GPA as he did at your college. DEFINATELY considering his competetion would be kids JUST AS SMART if not smarter than him. Do you not understand this?

I understand your point, but you are too ignorant to see that there are a lot of VERY smart people who do not go to prestigous schools for various reasons. These individuals could/would do just as well in big universities as they do in smaller colleges. You just have a hard time seeing that this is possible.

You must go to a 'Prestigious' school. Because you are definitely trying to justify your Johnson is bigger than the others right now!

 

[americanpierg]

I understand your point, but you are too ignorant to see that there are a lot of VERY smart people who do not go to prestigous schools for various reasons. These individuals could/would do just as well in big universities as they do in smaller colleges. You just have a hard time seeing that this is possible.

You must go to a 'Prestigious' school. Because you are definitely trying to justify your Johnson is bigger than the others right now!

LOL I never said there aren't smart people at smaller colleges. I said smart people, no matter how smart they are, will work HARDER at colleges like harvard and princeton than they would at YOUR school to earn the SAME grade. This GREATER amount of work SHOULD translate into more WEIGHT in the grade they got. This is how many college admissions work. I know Michigan gives you more "points" on the difficulty of the highschool you attended, and many other colleges work under this system.

You even just AGREED to this, so why are you argueing? Steven Hawkings could get a 4.0 physics degree whether he attended HARVARD or a college where the entering GPA and ACT were 2.0 and 15, respectively. Will he have to work harder at HARVARD. YES! Should his 4.0 at harvard weigh more. YES!

 

[americanpierg]

There is no way I can tell you they are the same, because I have not attended either of these schools (Neither have you, at least I assume). Even then the dynamic would change from class to class. Also, you seem to be forgetting that, despite entering statistics, >50% of credit bearing coursework at any dental school in the country will be non-didactic, for which no academic entering statistic (PAT is the closest, but still not good) is a good predictor.

So what you're saying is that the quality of students in Dental School has nothing to do with entering statistics. The fact that Howard has one of the lowest 3 entering GPA and DAT statistic of all US dental schools and UPENN has some of the highest plays no role in this?

Let's take a vote.

Since many of us are enrolled at neither schools, and won't be as biased as with this GPA debate,

Is it harder to place in the top 5 of your class at Harvard Dental Shool or Howard Dental School.

Somehow I don't think the result will be surprising at all...

 

[urghurgh]

In '92 UoP gave a 0.5 GPA to all candidates from UCB. I hope this relieves your worries. But this probably explains why they have such low GPA avgs, yet high DAT scores.

 

[sajjy]

So what you're saying is that the quality of students in Dental Shool has nothing to do with entering statistics. The fact that Howard has one of the lowest 3 entering GPA and DAT statistic of all US dental schools and UPENN has some of the highest plays no role in this?

Let's take a vote.

Since many of us are enrolled at neither schools, and won't be as biased as with this GPA debate,

Is it harder to place in the top 5 of your class at Harvard Dental Shool or Howard Dental School.

Somehow I don't think the result will be surprising at all...

No ranking at Harvard Dental school, everyone is at the same level.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

LOL I never said there aren't smart people at smaller colleges. I said smart people, no matter how smart they are, will work HARDER at colleges like harvard and princeton than they would at YOUR school to earn the SAME grade. This GREATER amount of work SHOULD translate into more WEIGHT in the grade they got.

You even just AGREED to this, so why are you argueing? Steven Hawkings could get a 4.0 physics degree whether he attended HARVARD or a college where the entering GPA and SAT were 2.0 and 15, respectively. Will he have to work harder at HARVARD. YES! Should his 4.0 at harvard weigh more. YES!

Are you illiterate? Not only are you ignorant, but illiterate as well. Where did I agree with you? I did not agree that they would have to work harder. Even if I agreed that Harvard grads had to work harder than Podunk College grads (which I am not), in no way does that constituate the Harvard grads have a larger knowledge base than the Podunk College grads. I am pretty sure they are taught pretty much the same info and people are required to know the same info in the respective courses.

And again, your need to prove your penis size!!!!!