Does Veteran Status count as URM?

[MarineMDHopeful]

Ok, so this is my first post. Have been lurking for about 2 years. I am (understandably) anxious as my MCAT is coming up on June 16. I took my first FL, Kaplan FL 1 and only got a 496. Obviously I am a bit devastated. I am wondering if I should postpone. I just worry about the lateness. A bit of background on me:

Just graduated with a BS in Neuroscience and a BA in Russian Studies. I have a cGPA of 3.93 and a sGPA of around 3.75. Lots of research in neuroscience and genetics, TA for anatomy and cadaver dissection. Worked with patients with cognitive disabilities full time for 2 years while in school which I count as clinical. I am a 6 year USMC veteran. My one fear is that since I have no shadowing due to working full time to support my family that it is a negative.

All that said, I think I am probably around 505 on MCAT the reason this is is because I was deployed for 1.5 years right after I completed the MCAT prereqs and I am just now being able to brush up on them. With my ECs and GPA and veteran status will this get me into an MD program or should I push the MCAT back? Or am I still competitive?

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[ndafife]

URM refers to races and ethnicities that are Under Represented in Medicine relative to their numbers in the general population. Being a veteran has nothing to do with URM status.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

Ok, so this is my first post. Have been lurking for about 2 years. I am (understandably) anxious as my MCAT is coming up on June 16. I took my first FL, Kaplan FL 1 and only got a 496. Obviously I am a bit devastated. I am wondering if I should postpone. I just worry about the lateness. A bit of background on me:

Just graduated with a BS in Neuroscience and a BA in Russian Studies. I have a cGPA of 3.93 and a sGPA of around 3.75. Lots of research in neuroscience and genetics, TA for anatomy and cadaver dissection. Worked with patients with cognitive disabilities full time for 2 years while in school which I count as clinical. I am a 6 year USMC veteran. My one fear is that since I have no shadowing due to working full time to support my family that it is a negative.

All that said, I think I am probably around 505 on MCAT the reason this is is because I was deployed for 1.5 years right after I completed the MCAT prereqs and I am just now being able to brush up on them. With my ECs and GPA and veteran status will this get me into an MD program or should I push the MCAT back? Or am I still competitive?

You're less than three weeks away from your exam date and you just took your first FL and not even an AAMC one. I'm going to make an educated guess that you are poorly prepared for this exam. With three weeks left, it's too late to fix that. I highly recommend pushing back even if it costs you a year. Your other stats are great. Don't blow it because you rush the MCAT.

To answer your question, the vet status definitely helps. @LizzyM is the only adcom who has attempted to quantify it. She used to say it was equal to a combination of 5 MCAT points (old MCAT) and 0.5 GPA points. More recently, she just says "up to" 0.5 GPA points.

 

[LizzyM]

I have seen veterans given a bump equivalent to 0.5 GPA. That said, you need time to brush up on those pre-reqs and you need to do at least 510 on the MCAT. To do less is to put your GPA into question (was it a weak school? grade inflation? light schedule? You don't need anyone raising those questions.)

Push the MCAT back 7 months and spend the next 6.5 months prepping. Plan to apply in June 2018. You've waited this long, there is no point being a reapplicant in 2018 which is the route you are headed down at the moment.

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

Thank you for your reply @LizzyM I really appreciate the honesty. That being said, I am going to try the AAMC practice test probably tomorrow or Wednesday. The only reason is because I have heard that Kaplan severely deflates your score. If I am not at least 506+ on that AAMC I will push my MCAT back at least a month and go from there. I will update on my AAMC score.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Thank you for your reply @LizzyM I really appreciate the honesty. That being said, I am going to try the AAMC practice test probably tomorrow or Wednesday. The only reason is because I have heard that Kaplan severely deflates your score. If I am not at least 506+ on that AAMC I will push my MCAT back at least a month and go from there. I will update on my AAMC score.

Good luck

 

[BombsAway]

I have seen veterans given a bump equivalent to 0.5 GPA. That said, you need time to brush up on those pre-reqs and you need to do at least 510 on the MCAT. To do less is to put your GPA into question (was it a weak school? grade inflation? light schedule? You don't need anyone raising those questions.

Not arguing, just want to better understand...
Mean matriculant was a 508.7, a 510 is 82%ile, and the top GPA grid + a 510= 76% matriculation rate. So a 3.9/510 is already pretty great! Which makes me fuzzy about what role the veteran bump plays. This makes it seem like a good EC/tiebreaker rather than the equivalent of a few (5 was thrown around previously) mcat points. Or maybe i'm missing something? we all appreciate whenever you drop knowledge bombs on us, so thank you in advance.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Not arguing, just want to better understand...
Mean matriculant was a 508.7, a 510 is 82%ile, and the top GPA grid + a 510= 76% matriculation rate. So a 3.9/510 is already pretty great! Which makes me fuzzy about what role the veteran bump plays. This makes it seem like a good EC/tiebreaker rather than the equivalent of a few (5 was thrown around previously) mcat points. Or maybe i'm missing something? we all appreciate whenever you drop knowledge bombs on us, so thank you in advance.

Pretty sure she's referring to the general case with that number, not this specific case. Vet status seems to give an appreciable boost at certain schools.

 

[LizzyM]

Not arguing, just want to better understand...
Mean matriculant was a 508.7, a 510 is 82%ile, and the top GPA grid + a 510= 76% matriculation rate. So a 3.9/510 is already pretty great! Which makes me fuzzy about what role the veteran bump plays. This makes it seem like a good EC/tiebreaker rather than the equivalent of a few (5 was thrown around previously) mcat points. Or maybe i'm missing something? we all appreciate whenever you drop knowledge bombs on us, so thank you in advance.

In the old LizzyM score, 5 MCAT points equaled 0.5 GPA points.

When considering percentiles of MCAT, do keep in mind that ~55% of those who take the MCAT don't get into medical school at all. That proportion might be higher as I don't really know how many people take it and then discard all notions about medical school.

 

[@Hazel-rah]

In the old LizzyM score, 5 MCAT points equaled 0.5 GPA points.

When considering percentiles of MCAT, do keep in mind that ~55% of those who take the MCAT don't get into medical school at all. That proportion might be higher as I don't really know how many people take it and then discard all notions about medical school.

@LizzyM --When you stated "Do keep in mind...", are you saying that, for example, when you see someone who has a score at the 75th percentile on AAMC scale, you actually think of that as approx~50th percentile of matriculating students?

 

[LizzyM]

@LizzyM --When you stated "Do keep in mind...", are you saying that, for example, when you see someone who has a score at the 75th percentile on AAMC scale, you actually think of that as approx~50th percentile of matriculating students?

I just figure that scoring at the average is below average.

For the most part, the adcom at my school compares applicants to the median MCAT of admitted students in the previous cycle (and median of admitted tends to be higher than median of matriculants because we admit many high scorers who go elsewhere-- enough to bump the MCAT by a point or two). So if the median is 515, then a 513 is below average. (those aren't real numbers for my school... just an example.)

 

[@Hazel-rah]

Edit, accidentally posted twice

 

[BombsAway]

I just figure that scoring at the average is below average.

Wow. I just had the most vivid memory of a conversation with an ex girlfriend.

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

Well, I can always apply to Marshall and probably be accepted. They are a good school that accepts lower MCAT scores. They also have good residency placement.

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

What I wish adcoms could see is the pretext to some applicants low or "average" MCAT scores, for example, a student who cannot afford to pay for one of those fancy prep courses or for a student who simply cannot afford to not work. For these said students who have to fit in studying for an intensive exam like the MCAT in a short time frame like over Christmas break. Sometimes I wish there was a "explain your low MCAT score" next to where we report our MCAT scores - though I've never been one to make excuses it still would be nice to have had the opportunity to take a prep course and have months to study.

With all that being said, I'm happy I got into medical school with my average MCAT but I feel for those applicants who were in situations similar to myself and were not able to matriculate. (by no means am I excusing people with low or terrible MCATs because I know many people don't do well to no fault but their own - but there are those exceptions)

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

I know this is an old post, but i just recently came across this. By this, did you mean that if I have a 3.5 GPA, it can be looked at as a 4.0 in the application, if you're a vet? How about the new MCAT scoring? Sorry, that's what I'm getting from this. @LizzyM

I don't think it quite works like that. Each school has their own metrics for instance, Mayo ranks all interviewees 1-5 5 being the highest. We don't ever see our rank but the committee decides on it and there I wouldn't be surprised if veteran status would bump you up a whole rank.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I know this is an old post, but i just recently came across this. By this, did you mean that if I have a 3.5 GPA, it can be looked at as a 4.0 in the application, if you're a vet? How about the new MCAT scoring? Sorry, that's what I'm getting from this. @LizzyM

No. The old LizzyM was 10*GPA + MCAT. So say you have a 3.5 and you had a 30 on the old MCAT. Your lizzym would be a 65. So as a vet you could look at yourself as being closer to a 70. If you had a 4.0, your lizzym would be a 70 (~75 with the vet boost). That is not the same as saying adcoms will look at your gpa as being like a 4.0. It just means when targeting schools, you can aim higher than someone of your stats without vet status.

The new MCAT changes the formula a little I think, but the premise is still the same. Add around 5 points for being a vet.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Keep in mind that the whole LizzyM score is just a rough metric to try and evaluate your competitiveness for schools and is, in my opinion, mostly useful for the average traditional applicant straight out of college. Once you throw in some really interesting life experiences, I think a lot of the validity of those metrics start falling apart. I feel that how being a veteran will effect your application depends on both how your experience translate to a kick-ass personal statement and the particular set of eyeballs that happen to look at your application. While many people love veterans, some are not quite as keen on prior military (met at least one during my interview trail). So while adding 5 to your LizzyM may be a rough rule-of-thumb, I would take it with a grain of salt. A school out of your LizzyM range may also surprisingly give you love (which happened to me). Found out afterwards that my interviewer scored me higher than students with stats much higher than mine.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I got it! So how would being a vet relate to the WAR system? @LizzyM

The WARS app has a section for ECs where you can rate how impressive your ECs are. Military service is like the second highest category in that program. It gives you a pretty significant boost in what schools to apply to.

But as mentioned above, these tools become increasingly less realistic the less traditional you are. They can still be useful, but don't bank everything on them, and still apply broadly. The MSAR is still your best friend.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Thanks! The whole "getting bump because of vet status" thing is new to me. I know that WARS is just a way to analyze your own stats and see where you stand. I'm actually asking so I can make a list of schools (just for my reference). That way I know which ones to drop, and which ones I should go for. Would you be so kind to share, which schools aren't too vet friendly in a PM? Thanks again!

Just to clarify, I don't think the school was veteran unfriendly. The fact that they gave me an interview tells me otherwise. I just happened to have been paired up with an interviewer that seemed to be a little less-than-friendly to my military experience.