PhD/PsyD Does your patient call you Dr?

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Does your patient call you Dr.

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 37.5%

  • No

    Votes: 3 4.7%

  • Sometimes

    Votes: 37 57.8%
  • Total voters
    64
this has become a real point of contention with some folks.
 
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I've noticed an interesting pattern at my main job. First off, I'm a dude. I often will introduce myself as just first name last name, and "I am the unit psychologist." However, patients consistently call me Dr.. even without me saying it. Now, my colleagues that are women, both psychologists and psychiatrists, always introduce themselves as doctor so and so, and then very often get hit with either "Ms." or just their first name. At first I thought it might just be a one or two time thing. 5 years later, nope. Sexism/misogyny is alive and well amongst both staff and patients alike. I always make a point to consistently refer to all of my work colleagues with doctoral degrees as "doctor" because of this.

If I'm doing independent evals it's "doctor me." The only time defendants/patients/evaluees end up calling me by first name is when there is characterological pathology on the table, and their lack of calling me doctor is often quite diagnostic.
 
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If you give up the esteem you earned, don't be surprised when you get it.
 
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Yup, introductions are always "I'm Dr. Wisneuro, yadda yadda yadda." If you have another provider who does not call you Dr., especially in front of patients, simply call them by their first name in front of patients, it's usually fixed the problem pretty quickly for me.
 
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I work with kids, but am younger, so I feel the need to use Dr. as a means of showing i'm not just a schmuck to parents. I usually end saying "Hi, I'm Dr. FirstName." I feel it's a little cringey, though.
 
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BuckeyeLove said:
I've noticed an interesting pattern at my main job. First off, I'm a dude. I often will introduce myself as just first name last name, and "I am the unit psychologist." However, patients consistently call me Dr.. even without me saying it. Now, my colleagues that are women, both psychologists and psychiatrists, always introduce themselves as doctor so and so, and then very often get hit with either "Ms." or just their first name. At first I thought it might just be a one or two time thing. 5 years later, nope. Sexism/misogyny is alive and well amongst both staff and patients alike. I always make a point to consistently refer to all of my work colleagues with doctoral degrees as "doctor" because of this.

If I'm doing independent evals it's "doctor me." The only time defendants/patients/evaluees end up calling me by first name is when there is characterological pathology on the table, and their lack of calling me doctor is often quite diagnostic.
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Yep, thank you for noticing this.

I didn't vote on the poll because I'm a psychiatrist and I assume you want to hear from psychologists. But I think the gender question is highly relevant. I introduce myself as Dr Firstname Lastname, giving patients the option of how they want to address me. I'd say I get Dr Firstname about 40% of the time, Dr Lastname about 40% of the time, and plain old Firstname about 20% of the time. Male colleagues seem to get Dr Lastname pretty reliably.
 
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Undergraduate students, 90% of the time. I correct 100% of the time.
Graduate students, 10% of the time. I don't care because I believe in a junior colleague model, so whatever works for them.
Colleagues, Dr in front of clients/participants and first name otherwise. I'll correct 100% of the time for issues of clients/participants.
If someone refers to someone else who is a Dr. as Mr/Ms/Mrs, I correct 100% of the time.

For me personally, it varies in what I get and what people do depending some on the context. I don't let respect vary. People can call me doctor and still be disrespectful. I'm more interested in correcting the later than the former.
 
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Formal title for patients. When interacting with other providers it's case by case...I'm fine going by first name if I know them, but I usually just match their preference bc I don't care....unless it is in front of patients or I'm in court/depo/etc. I've *definitely* seen a difference for my female colleagues when I was in the hospital setting. In private practice, I haven't seen any difference. Providers are all first name w/o patients or staff, and formal with all staff, reps, etc.
 
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Many of my patients do, but I also give them the choice to call me Dr. or by my first name. In the VA though, I've noticed that many patients prefer the more formal term. A lot of them even call me "ma'am," which I have never asked them to do. Lol.
 
cara susanna said:
Many of my patients do, but I also give them the choice to call me Dr. or by my first name. In the VA though, I've noticed that many patients prefer the more formal term. A lot of them even call me "ma'am," which I have never asked them to do. Lol.
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I think the Sir/Ma'am thing is much more common in the VA. I used to get sir quite a bit in the VA, almost never in other settings.
 
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tr said:
I didn't vote on the poll because I'm a psychiatrist and I assume you want to hear from psychologists.
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I assumed it was industry-standard for psychiatry, but a little more variable for psychology because of perception and all that. I was mainly asking because, well, I'm a post-doc now and it's the first time I'm Dr. R. Matey. I didn't know how much I should be enforcing this with patients. It wasn't at all at the UCC, but I'm more of a medical setting now.

I was surprised by the relative split in the poll. Seems pretty variable how much psychologists enforce this.
 
Curious- how do people "enforce" this with clients? I typically introduce myself as " "Dr. Lastname, Firstname." A majority of clients ( actually their parents- the actual clients are mainly nonverbal toddlers!) refer to me as either just "Doctor" or sometimes "Dr. Firstname" or "Dr. Lastname" (my last name, though phonetically spelled, doesn't look like it should be, and is hard for some folks). If a client just calls me by my first name, I don't correct them by saying "its Dr. Lastname." That's kind of being a bit of a jerk without any real pay off.

Graduate students can use my first name. Undergrads call me dr. Lastname. Colleagues address me with firstname, but reference me to clients as "Dr. Lastname.
 
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In private practice, I always introduce myself as Dr. Firstname Lastname. The majority call me by Dr. Lastname, except for the very few who will use my first name to establish more informality.

When teaching, I request Dr. Lastname and always sign emails as Dr. Lastname but get Professor Lastname maybe 70% of the time and Dr. Lastname the other 30%. I never had a student call me by my first name, but these are undergraduate students.

I refer to doctoral folks with their titles (or if talking to students, I interchange professor and doctor sometimes).

I’d like to see the gender study regarding medical doctors and titles (male doctors were more likely to introduce female colleagues by first name than female doctors in grand rounds) replicated by psychologists. It would be interesting to see the results based on some anecdotal observations in here!
 
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I introduce myself by Dr. Lastname to patients and the admin who schedule appointments do that as well. Patients almost always continue with that throughout the appointment or any subsequent visits. In post-doc it was the same - all my supervisors would introduce me as Dr. Lastname to the patient as would I when I walked into the room. Amongst the fellows and faculty, it was very casual and often on a first name basis.

With current colleagues (based in a hospital), I don't really care. I usually just give them my first name and about 75% of the time they will still call me Dr. Lastname. However, in front of patients, they almost always say Dr. Lastname.
 
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I am about to receive my PhD and am wondering about how to navigate this, since it will be a new experience for me. I'm going to be starting postdoc soon (outpatient with adolescents and probably occasionally kids). I'm fine introducing myself as "Dr." to parents, but am wondering how others feel about doing so with teens (where I wonder if it might be distancing)?

As others have noted, there's a gender (and likely an racial) component to how others deal with titles, so for background I'm a cis white dude.
 
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MiniLop said:
I'm fine introducing myself as "Dr." to parents, but am wondering how others feel about doing so with teens (where I wonder if it might be distancing)?
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I don't work with kids and I don't have a dog in this fight. But, from the parent's perspective, I have kids and I expect them to use last names and titles when it's appropriate. Their teachers and doctors get the courtesy of being called by their last names, and that doesn't seem to have prevented them from having close relationships. I am warier of adults who seem to try too hard to be "on their level."
 
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I
MiniLop said:
I am about to receive my PhD and am wondering about how to navigate this, since it will be a new experience for me. I'm going to be starting postdoc soon (outpatient with adolescents and probably occasionally kids). I'm fine introducing myself as "Dr." to parents, but am wondering how others feel about doing so with teens (where I wonder if it might be distancing)?

As others have noted, there's a gender (and likely an racial) component to how others deal with titles, so for background I'm a cis white dude.
Click to expand...

I think this is highly dependent on culture of the site. My postdoc was the one place I was called by my first name regularly, and it was with teens living in a residential facility. other therapists were also called by first names because it was encouraged. The teens we worked with already had reservations about opening up to us so it was seen as creating another “us vs. them” barrier to hold on to titles with the teens who were already guarded because they obviously didn’t choose to be living at this facility.

I understand both sides and don’t think either is right or wrong, necessarily, when working with adolescents.
 
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I introduce myself as Dr. Firstname Lastname, and refer to myself as Dr. Lastname while we are still in the intake process/figuring out treatment. Then as we settle into meeting regularly I start calling myself by my first name. I let patients use whatever feels natural to them, but if they ask I invite them to call me by my first name.

Usually when I'm referring to myself it's in the context of voicemails or signing emails. Most patients seem to follow my lead without needing to ask.
 
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Colleagues call me by my first name and patients by Dr. Lastname, as I suggested when I first started my job. It seems like a good solution, but sometimes it's hard for my colleagues to keep it straight with different situations. My patients sometimes switch to first name and I usually don't correct them. No one seems to switch entirely. Physicians often call me by my first name in front of patients. This has been a phenomenon universally associated with male physicians. If I'm able, I pull them aside and explain that the boundary issue is important with my patients and I need them to call me by my title in front of the patients as part of the steps I take to ensure the relationship doesn't get confused with a personal one. I have never had a physician push back on this.

I was interested to see the psychiatrist info above where she said that patients switch to first name at times or Dr. Firstname. I'm never sure if my title gets dropped because I'm a female, or if it's because I'm a psychologist and the physicians don't think I'm really a doctor. The culture at my workplace is for the psychologists to be called Dr. Firstname but I came here from the VA and was used to Dr. Lastname, so that's been a little weird. It creates a dynamic where in colleague discussions, I'm just Firstname and they are Dr. Firstname.

There's no winning. ha.
 
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Psycycle said:
Colleagues call me by my first name and patients by Dr. Lastname, as I suggested when I first started my job. It seems like a good solution, but sometimes it's hard for my colleagues to keep it straight with different situations. My patients sometimes switch to first name and I usually don't correct them. No one seems to switch entirely. Physicians often call me by my first name in front of patients. This has been a phenomenon universally associated with male physicians. If I'm able, I pull them aside and explain that the boundary issue is important with my patients and I need them to call me by my title in front of the patients as part of the steps I take to ensure the relationship doesn't get confused with a personal one. I have never had a physician push back on this.

I was interested to see the psychiatrist info above where she said that patients switch to first name at times or Dr. Firstname. I'm never sure if my title gets dropped because I'm a female, or if it's because I'm a psychologist and the physicians don't think I'm really a doctor. The culture at my workplace is for the psychologists to be called Dr. Firstname but I came here from the VA and was used to Dr. Lastname, so that's been a little weird. It creates a dynamic where in colleague discussions, I'm just Firstname and they are Dr. Firstname.

There's no winning. ha.
Click to expand...

I actually had another female psychologist at a VA specifically advise me and other young women against using first name with my patients, I didn't follow that advice very well (what can I say, I'm Midwestern)
 
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Psycycle said:
Colleagues call me by my first name and patients by Dr. Lastname, as I suggested when I first started my job. It seems like a good solution, but sometimes it's hard for my colleagues to keep it straight with different situations. My patients sometimes switch to first name and I usually don't correct them. No one seems to switch entirely. Physicians often call me by my first name in front of patients. This has been a phenomenon universally associated with male physicians. If I'm able, I pull them aside and explain that the boundary issue is important with my patients and I need them to call me by my title in front of the patients as part of the steps I take to ensure the relationship doesn't get confused with a personal one. I have never had a physician push back on this.

I was interested to see the psychiatrist info above where she said that patients switch to first name at times or Dr. Firstname. I'm never sure if my title gets dropped because I'm a female, or if it's because I'm a psychologist and the physicians don't think I'm really a doctor. The culture at my workplace is for the psychologists to be called Dr. Firstname but I came here from the VA and was used to Dr. Lastname, so that's been a little weird. It creates a dynamic where in colleague discussions, I'm just Firstname and they are Dr. Firstname.

There's no winning. ha.
Click to expand...

Could be both, I'd wager. I do think there are situations when physicians don't realize psychologists have doctorates, and that (in the US) this is the minimum necessary degree to practice as a psychologist.

I also certainly think it could be related to sex/gender. Are there male psychologists with whom you work, and does it also happen with them?

It may just be me having not worked with many kiddos, but "Dr. Firstname" just sounds...odd. Maybe not with patients per se, but definitely when talking with colleagues (with whom I almost always introduce myself as Firstname Lastname, unless it's some sort of super-important formal meeting).
 
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cara susanna said:
I actually had another female psychologist at a VA specifically advise me and other young women against using first name with my patients, I didn't follow that advice very well (what can I say, I'm Midwestern)
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Interesting. It's a strange dynamic to navigate, that's for sure.

AcronymAllergy said:
Could be both, I'd wager. I do think there are situations when physicians don't realize psychologists have doctorates, and that (in the US) this is the minimum necessary degree to practice as a psychologist.

I also certainly think it could be related to sex/gender. Are there male psychologists with whom you work, and does it also happen with them?

It may just be me having not worked with many kiddos, but "Dr. Firstname" just sounds...odd. Maybe not with patients per se, but definitely when talking with colleagues (with whom I almost always introduce myself as Firstname Lastname, unless it's some sort of super-important formal meeting).
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Unfortunately, I live in a state where a Master's level can be called a psychologist. So that could be it. Although the physicians who drop the title usually know the Dr. thing because of my patients mostly using the title.

The male psychologists go by Dr. Firstname. No one seems to drop the title Dr. when they use their first name. I'm not sure if physicians drop their title or not.
 
Psycycle said:
Unfortunately, I live in a state where a Master's level can be called a psychologist. So that could be it
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Even if it's legal at the state level, it's unethical for master's level providers to call themselves psychologists by their own ethical standards. I can't believe this is a thing!
 
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R. Matey said:
Even if it's legal at the state level, it's unethical for master's level providers to call themselves psychologists by their own ethical standards. I can't believe this is a thing!
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what code of ethics is that? I can't find one specific to master's level.
 
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R. Matey said:
ACA (2014) Standard C.4 https://www.counseling.org/resources/aca-code-of-ethics.pdf
NBCC (2016) Standard 38 https://www.nbcc.org/Assets/Ethics/NBCCCodeofEthics.pdf
NASW (2017) Standard 1.04 National Association of Social Workers (NASW)
AAMFT (2015) Standard 9.1 Code of Ethics
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Ok - the first one is the American Counseling Association which I presume is for LPCs, NBCC is also for counselors, NASW for social workers, and AAMFT marriage & family therapy. The people I know specifically have master's degrees in psychology, so to my understanding they are not counselors, social workers or marriage & family therapists. I believe most states call them "psychologist associates" but I could be wrong, and I'm not sure what their ethics code is but I'm guessing APA. No?
 
Psycycle said:
Ok - the first one is the American Counseling Association which I presume is for LPCs, NBCC is also for counselors, NASW for social workers, and AAMFT marriage & family therapy. The people I know specifically have master's degrees in psychology, so to my understanding they are not counselors, social workers or marriage & family therapists. I believe most states call them "psychologist associates" but I could be wrong, and I'm not sure what their ethics code is but I'm guessing APA. No?
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Yeah, they don't have one. Master's degrees in psychology are not licensable degrees to provide services and have no organization to provide an ethics code. We have those in my current state too, but a person is fined for calling themselves a psychologist without a doctoral level license in a clinical setting. I'm surprised that your state org hasn't done more to protect the term. I'm no expert, but I would think that the psychologist supervising them would be responsible for making sure they are not providing false statements to patients (Standards 5.01, 5.02a).
 
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I know at least one state that offers this licensure from a master's in psychology:

Licensed Master's Level Psychologist

My understanding is that they can call themselves the full LMLP title, but not just "psychologists." I knew someone who obtained a clinical psychology master's degree in said state and became an LMLP who interpreted test results/wrote reports and provided therapy. I think a psychologist had to sign off on the assessment write-up, perhaps, or there was some kind of supervision in place, maybe.....this was many years ago so my memory is hazy on the details.

By the way, in the same state, the board of behavioral sciences covers psychologists AND master's level clinicians, whereas in the state I live in now, they are completely separate bodies (BOP and BBS). I didn't realize how much variation there was in this state-by-state.
 
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Guys — I live here. They do call MA levels “psychologists.” I don’t want to say too much more because I’m dangerously close to outing where I live but if you want details I’m happy to PM. Also the state org has done a lot to try to address the problem.
 
Hmm... The whole doctor title is not often a point of contention. Sometimes I'll get a dismissive and rude clerk/staff member and I'll correct them on the spot... Patients for the most part call me doctor first or last name; and I introduce my first and last name during the first meeting and however they want to call me after that's up to them.

Sometimes I would get miss from my kiddos when I did child therapy; but since working with veterans I get mostly chief, boss, doc, Sgt., and LT.
 
R. Matey said:
Yeah, they don't have one. Master's degrees in psychology are not licensable degrees to provide services and have no organization to provide an ethics code. We have those in my current state too, but a person is fined for calling themselves a psychologist without a doctoral level license in a clinical setting. I'm surprised that your state org hasn't done more to protect the term. I'm no expert, but I would think that the psychologist supervising them would be responsible for making sure they are not providing false statements to patients (Standards 5.01, 5.02a).
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In my state, Master's level clinicians (me) are called "Licensed Psychological Associates" or LPAs. We abide and are governed by the the Texas Administrative Code regarding ethics, rules of practice, etc.

Here's a link if it is of interest: Texas Administrative Code

We are not allowed to refer to ourselves as psychologists or "doctors" of any form or fashion. Hope this helps, or is at least informative!
 
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Could the poll be edited to have the option for practicum students of "Yes, but I quickly say, 'Nonononono, that's very nice of you, but please don't do that, you're going to get me in trouble with my supervisor?'"
 
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psych.meout said:
Could the poll be edited to have the option for practicum students of "Yes, but I quickly say, 'Nonononono, that's very nice of you, but please don't do that, you're going to get me in trouble with my supervisor?'"
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That happened so much to me as a mid-level and as a practicum student. *Picard facepalm meme"
 
Thread highjack time (but also kind of related):

I'm about to start postdoc (outpatient anxiety/OCD stuff, primarily with adolescents) and I'll be working remotely for the foreseeable future. I'm thinking about how to set up my home office. How do people feel about having your (framed) degrees visible on camera? I was thinking of placing my laptop far enough away that you can see all of me sitting in the my chair, rather than me just being a floating head. I realize I don't even know if having framed degrees is passe now. I may just feel so excited about finally having them that I want to show them off to everyone.
 
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You earned them. If you want to hang them and have them be visible on camera, I say go ahead.

Besides, your state and/or hospital may require that you have your license in plain view anyway, and having your degrees viewable allows your patients to readily see your credentials.
 
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We're legally required in my state to display them in an obvious location in our offices, I don't see any issue with it.

That said, we're literally all ignoring that right now and I would "love" to see the board or the state actually try and take anyone to task for it right now since I think they would be crucified in the court of public opinion. Its absurdly stupid anyways given many people at my facility have multiple practice locations and they certainly aren't hauling their credentials around from office to office.
 
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voyeurofthemind said:
First appointment is - Hi, I'm Dr. X. Please call me (first name), if you prefer.
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Oh! I like this. It gives the client a choice. I am a trainee, but I believe I will feel weird being called Dr. LastName or even Dr. FirstName (which I've seen is becoming increasingly common).
 
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