Doing research as an MD

[aspirant]

Hello all,

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I'm wondering if any of you who are in MD programs are planning on, or know anything about, the possibilities for working primarily in research with an MD degree (sans PhD).

I am applying to allopathic schools this cycle, so obviously I have to get in first. But I am curious as to whether the research door is closed to those who are not MD/PhD's.

Any ideas?

Many thanks,
asp

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[tigershark]

There is no advantage to an MD having a PhD when it comes to research funding. It is far easier for an MD to get funded compared to a PhD.

An MD/PhD is really only useful for the "PhD at heart" who wants easier access to funding.

The doors are wide open to MDs who want to do research.

 

[fun8stuff]

There is no advantage to an MD having a PhD when it comes to research funding. It is far easier for an MD to get funded compared to a PhD.

why is it easier to get funded? Perhaps it might be easier for a MD to get funded if the research deals with human subjects, blood, guts, etc.... but otherwise I would think not.

I have pretty much always been told that the PhD is a research a degree, whereas the MD degree is a degree to practice medicine. In grad school you will learn to write grants and gain a lot of research experience. This is not neceassily true with a MD.

With that said, you can still obtain grants and research with just a MD... people have done this for years. But, unless you do a research fellowship or have a research background, you will probably be at a disadvantage compared to a MD/PhD, especially with getting funded.

If you dont want to devote the time to a MD/PhD, you may consider doing a research fellowship and gaining the experience in another way.

 

[doc05]

There is no advantage to an MD having a PhD when it comes to research funding. It is far easier for an MD to get funded compared to a PhD.

I have seen data to the contrary. PhD's and MDPhD's are far more successful obtaining NIH grants. Plus an MD provides ZERO structured research training.

 

[Haybrant]

all md's ive talked to in the academic world say there is plenty of funding for an MD researcher; i think the second post in this thread is on target. My PI is an md and he gets loads of nih funding, has an rO1 and tons of $ from private donors he has operated on.

 

[fun8stuff]

all md's ive talked to in the academic world say there is plenty of funding for an MD researcher; i think the second post in this thread is on target. My PI is an md and he gets loads of nih funding, has an rO1 and tons of $ from private donors he has operated on.

this may be true, how'd your PI get to where he is at? Did he get extensive research experience during a fellowship or as an extracurricular?

 

[tigershark]

I have seen data to the contrary. PhD's and MDPhD's are far more successful obtaining NIH grants. Plus an MD provides ZERO structured research training.

The data you saw was probably misleading. A good deal of NIH funding goes to phds and md/phds simply because they outnumber pure MDs applying for funding.

I've co-authored quite a few major grant proposals (NIH/DARPA/Shriners/Navy etc.) with my PI (who is a PhD), and on every grant he brings in MDs as co-PIs for the sole purpose of increasing his chances of being funded. When I was entering med school and considering going the MD/PhD route he convinced me not to do it, because according to him it wasnt neccessary and offered no benefit in terms of funding, and is just a bad deal in general all things considered.

I disagree that an MD provides no structured research training, it is there for anyone who wants it. There are tons of PIs more than willing to help out interested med students. I'm in my 3rd year now and ive written proposals, recieved funding, conducted studies, and submitted manuscripts to journals.

And I'm far from the gunner type so I'm sure someone hardcore about doing research could get all the research training they wanted without wasting 3+ years of their life on the phd

 

[tigress]

In my experience MDs have a ton of funding available. When I was in grad school at a top school, maybe 1/4 or more of the PIs in my department had MDs only. They all had as much or more access to funding than the PhDs. MD/PhDs had the most I think. I didn't stick around long enough to find out the details for myself though

Oh and my PI who was an MD didn't do any special training, just did research in med school at some point and then after her residency and fellowship she did post-doc work.

 

[fun8stuff]

The data you saw was probably misleading. A good deal of NIH funding goes to phds and md/phds simply because they outnumber pure MDs applying for funding.

I've co-authored quite a few major grant proposals (NIH/DARPA/Shriners/Navy etc.) with my PI (who is a PhD), and on every grant he brings in MDs as co-PIs for the sole purpose of increasing his chances of being funded. When I was entering med school and considering going the MD/PhD route he convinced me not to do it, because according to him it wasnt neccessary and offered no benefit in terms of funding, and is just a bad deal in general all things considered.

I disagree that an MD provides no structured research training, it is there for anyone who wants it. There are tons of PIs more than willing to help out interested med students. I'm in my 3rd year now and ive written proposals, recieved funding, conducted studies, and submitted manuscripts to journals.

And I'm far from the gunner type so I'm sure someone hardcore about doing research could get all the research training they wanted without wasting 3+ years of their life on the phd

well, i am glad to hear this then, because I would like to get involved in research, but don't really want to do the whole md/phd thing. Although, I dont think it would be a complete waste to do md/phd since they do pay your schooling. But, still not for me.

 

[Hoooba]

I've been told that having good undergraduate research is sufficient for MDs who want to pursue research.

Here's my question. It's a little unrelated to the topic

Do MD/PhDs get paid less than MDs? or does it depend on where you work?

 

[fun8stuff]

I've been told that having good undergraduate research is sufficient for MDs who want to pursue research.

Here's my question. It's a little unrelated to the topic

Do MD/PhDs get paid less than MDs? or does it depend on where you work?

yes, on average they get paid less. However, it does vary. A few of MD/PhD's that I have known make up the salary difference by also having a practice on the side... working 80-100+ hrs a week, both in the lab and in the clinic.