Donate my time or not?

[Medman2737]

This is creating a HUGE ripple in our practice, and I never thought this would be the hill we would have to die on . . . let me know your thoughts:

As of July 1st, our 40 physician, multi-disciplinary practice is getting acquired by a big regional hospital system . . . same old story.

I receive an e-mail on Monday from our marketing department that the new organization would like the providers' assistance in performing a community service for two local high schools in performing sports physicals for approximately 600 athletes. Now, though I practice 100% interventional spine, I am fellowship trained in Sports Medicine - I COULD help out with the physicals, though it's a pro-bono gig. But, why would I take on the risk of identifying a potential murmur in a kid that I will likely never see again, a laxed shoulder, or any other problem that could eventually come back and bite me.

So I initially said "no", but then I got a personalized text from our marketing person, saying that I have an "obligation" since I'm the most qualified to conduct these physicals and the orthopods in our group have already turfed the responsibility to me. She says that the PCP's and mid-levels who are planning to help out do not have the sports experience that I do and that I should at least help inform them what should be covered during a sports physical.

So, do I help out?

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[SSdoc33]

This is creating a HUGE ripple in our practice, and I never thought this would be the hill we would have to die on . . . let me know your thoughts:

As of July 1st, our 40 physician, multi-disciplinary practice is getting acquired by a big regional hospital system . . . same old story.

I receive an e-mail on Monday from our marketing department that the new organization would like the providers' assistance in performing a community service for two local high schools in performing sports physicals for approximately 600 athletes. Now, though I practice 100% interventional spine, I am fellowship trained in Sports Medicine - I COULD help out with the physicals, though it's a pro-bono gig. But, why would I take on the risk of identifying a potential murmur in a kid that I will likely never see again, a laxed shoulder, or any other problem that could eventually come back and bite me.

So I initially said "no", but then I got a personalized text from our marketing person, saying that I have an "obligation" since I'm the most qualified to conduct these physicals and the orthopods in our group have already turfed the responsibility to me. She says that the PCP's and mid-levels who are planning to help out do not have the sports experience that I do and that I should at least help inform them what should be covered during a sports physical.

So, do I help out?

tell them to go pound sand. if the hospital wants to engender goodwill by going the physicals, THEY CAN PAY YOU FOR IT. dont let some clipboard nurse guilt you into anything

even though it is volunteer, you are assuming risk by doing the physicals. you may need to check with your malpractice carrier about this.

i can guarantee you are not the only doc who is having second thoughts.

if you want to volunteer your time, thats great, but it should be your decision, not the hospital

 

[au bon pain]

When I read the first paragraph, my initial thought was “yeah sure help out” if it’s your own local community and you’d feel good about it—it could be a nice thing to do and the malpractices risk, provided you’re not in a highly litigious area, is realistically likely low (especially since you’re not being compensated).

But then I read the bolded part in the next paragraph…

So I initially said "no", but then I got a personalized text from our marketing person, saying that I have an "obligation" since I'm the most qualified to conduct these physicals and the orthopods in our group have already turfed the responsibility to me. She says that the PCP's and mid-levels who are planning to help out do not have the sports experience that I do and that I should at least help inform them what should be covered during a sports physical.

So, do I help out?

Da f*ck!? I would not even reply to that person, I would go looking for their boss…

 

[cowboydoc]

In my best impression of the response you'd get if you posted this to the physicians' facebook page:

"No is a complete sentence." (Diva snark implied.)

 

[Fox800]

Absolutely not, and I'd be complaining to your marketing idiot's boss for trying to give you crap about it.

 

[Ducttape]

ask them how much they plan on paying for your time.

you are an employee. if you are required to do sports physicals for the system, then they are required to pay you for your time and effort.



or, alternately, tell them you volunteer already (market testing for CounterStrike or ridding the World of Warcraft of banshees for example)

 

[Asclepius186]

if it’s not in your contract you’re not obligated. Also you can’t let them set the precedent this early in your new relationship that they can boss you around into anything.

 

[Asclepius186]

This kind of stuff also pisses me off about big health systems. They claim to be doing a “service to the community” when really they are just trying to get free marketing. If there is an abnormality detected, where do you think those kids are gonna be referred for further expensive diagnostic workup? To that health system, who will then collect a pretty penny from those revenues. The health system is just after the dollar like everyone else. Don’t take their “service to the community” line…

 

[Medman2737]

Asclepius, thanks for mentioning setting a precedent, because that is my primary concern. I know I'm probably overthinking this, but what if this is essentially the litmus test for establishing loyalty? or worse, dominance in the relationship? What if the primary care doctors and mid-level's who DO volunteer, see that I'm not present and it affects relationships/referrals/etc.

Not sure if I want to appear "diva-like" before the overlords come in. Maybe this a one hand washes the other thing and they will be more responsive when I need a new ultrasound machine or other asks. Eight hours of doing sports physicals seems like small peanuts in the long run.

That said, I still have reservations about liability. If I do it, I will definitely make sure my policy covers me for outside volunteer work.

 

[PM&ARGHH]

Don’t overthink it - you don’t answer to a marketing department. If anything, they should answer to you.

 

[lobelsteve]

This is creating a HUGE ripple in our practice, and I never thought this would be the hill we would have to die on . . . let me know your thoughts:

As of July 1st, our 40 physician, multi-disciplinary practice is getting acquired by a big regional hospital system . . . same old story.

I receive an e-mail on Monday from our marketing department that the new organization would like the providers' assistance in performing a community service for two local high schools in performing sports physicals for approximately 600 athletes. Now, though I practice 100% interventional spine, I am fellowship trained in Sports Medicine - I COULD help out with the physicals, though it's a pro-bono gig. But, why would I take on the risk of identifying a potential murmur in a kid that I will likely never see again, a laxed shoulder, or any other problem that could eventually come back and bite me.

So I initially said "no", but then I got a personalized text from our marketing person, saying that I have an "obligation" since I'm the most qualified to conduct these physicals and the orthopods in our group have already turfed the responsibility to me. She says that the PCP's and mid-levels who are planning to help out do not have the sports experience that I do and that I should at least help inform them what should be covered during a sports physical.

So, do I help out?

They will never love you back.

 

[BobBarker]

I always declined to do it.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Tell them you are willing to go and check off names on the list, hand out water bottles, put on a clown costume and provider entertainment, etc.

If you are 1099 they are not treating you as an independent contractor and can get in trouble. If you are W2 then, depending on your pay structure and contract verbiage, you might have grounds for a complaint to your state's labor department.

 

[Ronin1]

Outside your scope of care. Present it as a disservice to the patients.

 

[RoloTomassi]

Doesn't your contract detail the type, days, times, locations of service you agree to provide?

Even if your contract has marketing obligations, this would not fall under that, but rather medical service obligations.

 

[mdo1738]

 

[Agast]

Does your malpractice cover you seeing teenagers in a high school setting if you get sued later?

 

[BoardingDoc]

I would ask for 2 things in this scenario if I was even remotely entertaining the idea of doing it.

1: They need to pay me.

2: The hospital needs to indemnify, hold harmless, and defend me from any and all loss, damage, and/or expense that I may incur that is related in any way to my performance or failure to perform the duties, services, and responsibilities associated with the sports medicine physical examinations being held on X date.

They likely won't agree to 1. They certainly won't agree to 2. F em.

 

[lobelsteve]

I would ask for 2 things in this scenario if I was even remotely entertaining the idea of doing it.

1: They need to pay me.

2: The hospital needs to indemnify, hold harmless, and defend me from any and all loss, damage, and/or expense that I may incur that is related in any way to my performance or failure to perform the duties, services, and responsibilities associated with the sports medicine physical examinations being held on X date.

They likely won't agree to 1. They certainly won't agree to 2. F em.

I used to do these. I still get asked.
They do pay. I was given 0.7 wrvu per physical. They also cover malpractice as part of the medmal policy for the hospital.

When I was a resident, I was putting in charge of our moonlighting. This included doing physicals for The county high schools of a small to midsize city. I was able to make $10,000 in cash in 6 weeks through this arrangement and insurance was still paid by the residency program/hospital. $10-15 per kid. Cash. Some money went to trainers at each middle/high school.

 

[Agast]

I did school physicals with my ortho group despite having no experience. At first we were paid $20/kid. Then the athletic trainers asked that we donate the money back to them for their school resources. I started asking each kid with an ortho injury who they ended up seeing for care and maybe 5% said they used our group. After that I told my partners it made zero sense to cancel clinic and help them with this when none of it was turning into extra business for our practice. That apparently was the push needed for us to stop.

 

[Ducttape]

yes good point Agast.

Medman, one of the issues you can discuss with marketing is that there are much more fruitful ways of marketing your services than volunteering.

 

[manowar rules]

It sounds like you don’t want to do it. The people who are telling you to do it are only motivated by their own interests.

If you had been voluteering regularly to do community sports physicals before y’all got bought out it would be one thing, but don’t start now just because a new employer wants unpaid work out of you. At least they should offer you something in exchange for your time.

Take a pass and don’t feel bad about it. Your free time is YOUR free time.

 

[camkiss]

Sports physicals are $25 a piece here when done at the school. That's $15,000 that could be split between you and the NP's/PA's doing the exams. The parents and students are getting a deal because they don't have to take time off work and pay the $30-100 copay to see you. I would absolutely not do it for free. As the good Lobelsteve says, "They'll never love you back".

 

[Agast]

As the good Lobelsteve says, "They'll never love you back".

— Wayne Gretzky
— Michael Scott
— Drusso

 

[lobelsteve]

— Wayne Gretzky
— Michael Scott
— Drusso

Twss