Dont do pharmacy school. It’s a scam

[deleted727644]

If I could give myself advice back when I was choosing a career, I would not go to pharmacy school. If you do have to go then choose a non-private school. It’s more fair and you’ll have more options. you’ll be stuck with $200k loans and doing IPPEs AND APPEs. Schools don’t pay for those rotations and you’re spending extra money on gas and rent/hotels. It’s also free labor for these sites. Then you’re stuck working retail afterwards or worse, not even finding a job in this saturated job market. With COVID-19 now, you’re gonna be stuck doing more work than ever. Is education in pharmacy for $200k debt worth it? No. It’s too much. It’s a scam. Medical students pay around $200k for their education and they get respected more and earn 2 times more. If you do have to take the similar pre-reqs and spend 4 years somewhere, I’d say do medical school and work hard to get in. I’m not sure why all these new pharmacy schools are even being allowed to open but it’s truly sad that these schools are run like a business and scamming innocent students and jeopardizing their future.

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[blueangel12]

If I could give myself advice back when I was choosing a career, I would not go to pharmacy school. If you do have to go then choose a non-private school. It’s more fair and you’ll have more options. you’ll be stuck with $200k loans and doing IPPEs AND APPEs. Schools don’t pay for those rotations and you’re spending extra money on gas and rent/hotels. It’s also free labor for these sites. Then you’re stuck working retail afterwards or worse, not even finding a job in this saturated job market. With COVID-19 now, you’re gonna be stuck doing more work than ever. Is education in pharmacy for $200k debt worth it? No. It’s too much. It’s a scam. Medical students pay around $200k for their education and they get respected more and earn 2 times more. If you do have to take the similar pre-reqs and spend 4 years somewhere, I’d say do medical school and work hard to get in. I’m not sure why all these new pharmacy schools are even being allowed to open but it’s truly sad that these schools are run like a business and scamming innocent students and jeopardizing their future.

I totally agree with your sentiment. A good chunk of pharmacy school students are medical/dental rejects especially ones who did their master's program with that medical/dental school in hopes of improving their chances of getting in shelling out ~30K, got rejected, and were forwarded to the pharmacy school to take on even more debt for a saturated field. Talk about the ultimate insult to injury. No question it is a revenue-generating scheme. To pay for the staff for them to have jobs and support their families, etc. Of course, not everyone can be providers or everyone being rich CEOs. It is just when someone has been heartbroken after being rejected, they are desperate for anything and being preyed upon to settle. First applying, getting rejected, suggested to do a master's program, upon finishing the master's program, still rejected and offered pharmacy. A lot of the rejected hopefuls spent so much time shadowing or working for providers they have no experience in pharmacy and not knowing the job market/environment situation. They jump into it when presented with the offer of a so-called "last-minute" pharmacy admission to fill seats with little time to do proper research to avoid taking a/another gap year to try again for their original plans and have no idea what to expect or hope to expect something similar as a provider in their experiences.
A lot of the rejected medical/dental hopefuls might be shy to admit settling for pharmacy, that they are happy and found their true calling.

 

[deleted727644]

I totally agree with your sentiment. A good chunk of pharmacy school students are medical/dental rejects especially ones who did their master's program with that medical/dental school in hopes of improving their chances of getting in shelling out ~30K, got rejected, and were forwarded to the pharmacy school to take on even more debt for a saturated field. Talk about the ultimate insult to injury. No question it is a revenue-generating scheme. To pay for the staff for them to have jobs and support their families, etc. Of course, not everyone can be providers or everyone being rich CEOs. It is just when someone has been heartbroken after being rejected, they are desperate for anything and being preyed upon to settle. First applying, getting rejected, suggested to do a master's program, upon finishing the master's program, still rejected and offered pharmacy. A lot of the rejected hopefuls spent so much time shadowing or working for providers they have no experience in pharmacy and not knowing the job market/environment situation. They jump into it when presented with the offer of a so-called "last-minute" pharmacy admission to fill seats with little time to do proper research to avoid taking a/another gap year to try again for their original plans and have no idea what to expect or hope to expect something similar as a provider in their experiences.
A lot of the rejected medical/dental hopefuls might be shy to admit settling for pharmacy, that they are happy and found their true calling.

Even with lack of pharmacy experience, these pharmacy schools don’t care who they admit. as long as you have the prerequisites, youre in and you can even get it at a community college. Alot of schools don’t even need a PCAT score. They really should stop making new pharmacy schools and approving new ones. They know how bad the market is yet they’re trying to deceive our youth.

I’m also guilty of not wanting to waste time and “settle” for pharmacy school because it was easiest to get in. I wish I waited the extra year to boost my application and apply to medical school. I regret not doing so.

 

[PharmtoCS]

To Pre-pharmacy students: it’s all true. Please heed the warnings. Don’t go in thinking “oh it won’t happen to me, I am more hard working, smarter, better than networking than most others, and my aunt works as a pharmacist so being unemployed or stuck in retail won’t happen to me.” Truth is that it will happen to most students minus a few that land their dream gigs by either sheer luck.

 

[APN-59 rph]

Had a short chat with a manager....10 hour days plus..in early, out late...swamped with shots....He's been in it quite a while but still has school expenses from the kiddies....those who can pull the pin..are....Pay for this one is very good right now..but not for new hires. The opinion is that pay cuts are coming (as they have precipitously for the newbees)........Unless you have a VERY unusual prospect concerning the pharmacist career...STAY OUT......meanwhile, COSTCO is deep discounting all of the profit out of the business...

 

[BelowTheMean]

To Pre-pharmacy students: it’s all true. Please heed the warnings. Don’t go in thinking “oh it won’t happen to me, I am more hard working, smarter, better than networking than most others, and my aunt works as a pharmacist so being unemployed or stuck in retail won’t happen to me.” Truth is that it will happen to most students minus a few that land their dream gigs by either sheer luck.

Cant be any more true. I was ultra hardworking, graduated undergrad with near perfect gpa went into pharmacy thinking i can do anything and 15 yrs later im working crap jobs. First 5 yrs was just jumping from job to job to get more clinical until laid off. Now it's just random hours and graveyard for retail and part time hospital. Biggest regret of my life knowing all my group of friends who all did worse in college but went MD/DO or even carribean med school route and now making 3x as much and enjoying this past thanksgiving weekend off with their families while i had to work while getting yelled at by vocational nurses, not even RNs. I guess if you had no choice it's bad enough, but knowing you couldve been one of those doctors just makes it that much worse.

 

[letsquitpharm]

Cant be any more true. I was ultra hardworking, graduated undergrad with near perfect gpa went into pharmacy thinking i can do anything and 15 yrs later im working crap jobs. First 5 yrs was just jumping from job to job to get more clinical until laid off. Now it's just random hours and graveyard for retail and part time hospital. Biggest regret of my life knowing all my group of friends who all did worse in college but went MD/DO or even carribean med school route and now making 3x as much and enjoying this past thanksgiving weekend off with their families while i had to work while getting yelled at by vocational nurses, not even RNs. I guess if you had no choice it's bad enough, but knowing you couldve been one of those doctors just makes it that much worse.

I am not sure if I am considered "ultra hardworking" by any means, but I was nowhere near perfect GPA in my undergrad and barely graduated pharmacy school like ~3.1 gpa not long ago (still a recent grad to some hiring managers). However, I did pull off some crazy hours coding while I was still in pharmacy school and continue to study towards a cs masters while working in biotech industry full-time. TBH, I don't really regret my pharmacy school experience, and I used that 4 years to self-reflect and learned so many things. My unique combination of skills and experience have always landed me interviews & opportunities with some of the biggest and promising names in the pharma/biotech industry.

It really depends on how you envision yourself and how you want to shape yourself to fit in your dream job. I admit a traditional pharmacy career is boring and hardly rewarding, but since you self-identified as "ultra hardworking", so may I ask you one question: what have you done over the last 15 years to upskill and evolve yourself? I have seen so many people from various industries going back to school to study cs, medicine and law, and now very happy with where they are at.

 

[JustFillIt]

Yea - I was thinking the same thing.

 

[RXDOC1986]

If I could give myself advice back when I was choosing a career, I would not go to pharmacy school. If you do have to go then choose a non-private school. It’s more fair and you’ll have more options. you’ll be stuck with $200k loans and doing IPPEs AND APPEs. Schools don’t pay for those rotations and you’re spending extra money on gas and rent/hotels. It’s also free labor for these sites. Then you’re stuck working retail afterwards or worse, not even finding a job in this saturated job market. With COVID-19 now, you’re gonna be stuck doing more work than ever. Is education in pharmacy for $200k debt worth it? No. It’s too much. It’s a scam. Medical students pay around $200k for their education and they get respected more and earn 2 times more. If you do have to take the similar pre-reqs and spend 4 years somewhere, I’d say do medical school and work hard to get in. I’m not sure why all these new pharmacy schools are even being allowed to open but it’s truly sad that these schools are run like a business and scamming innocent students and jeopardizing their future.

I agree 110%.
Background - GA Pharmacist for 33+ years - Pharm.D. with Residency (yes they had them in the Stone Age)-Home Infusion, Oncology, Hospital clinical/staffing background - kinda aged-out of a horrible metro-Atlanta job market(or maybe it's me!). My last hospital job, I was the oldest staff pharmacist by at least 10 years. They could hire 2 new grads, and they did, for what they were paying me. Been a travel pharmacist (in-state) for over a year now. Working @COVID only Hospital.
Pharmacy did provide for a good living for me and my family. Now it's a struggle to get jobs. The wages have plummeted and in a freefall. The last time I saw $40-$45 was in 1998. I am just so thankful I only have 5-7 years before retirement. I used to be envious of the students, residents and new graduates for what they had to look forward to. Now I am happy to be old and close to retirement.
I hate being the cranky old guy, but get out and do something else while you are young.

 

[Pharmacy_lover]

If I could give myself advice back when I was choosing a career, I would not go to pharmacy school. If you do have to go then choose a non-private school. It’s more fair and you’ll have more options. you’ll be stuck with $200k loans and doing IPPEs AND APPEs. Schools don’t pay for those rotations and you’re spending extra money on gas and rent/hotels. It’s also free labor for these sites. Then you’re stuck working retail afterwards or worse, not even finding a job in this saturated job market. With COVID-19 now, you’re gonna be stuck doing more work than ever. Is education in pharmacy for $200k debt worth it? No. It’s too much. It’s a scam. Medical students pay around $200k for their education and they get respected more and earn 2 times more. If you do have to take the similar pre-reqs and spend 4 years somewhere, I’d say do medical school and work hard to get in. I’m not sure why all these new pharmacy schools are even being allowed to open but it’s truly sad that these schools are run like a business and scamming innocent students and jeopardizing their future.

Any non traditional area you would pivot to based on your pharmacy experience?

Maybe in pharma or biotech? Or sales.

 

[DagS132]

Some of you guys really need to make videos and post them on youtube. The majority of videos on youtube talking about job saturation are from current pharmacy students talking about how everything is going to be okay. Ive even seen one where they say you just need to have faith in God and you will find a job easy. I have only seen 1 video from an actual pharmacist warning students to avoid pharmacy. Your words mean nothing here, youtube is a larger platform

 

[projektreverb]

Some of you guys really need to make videos and post them on youtube. The majority of videos on youtube talking about job saturation are from current pharmacy students talking about how everything is going to be okay. Ive even seen one where they say you just need to have faith in God and you will find a job easy. I have only seen 1 video from an actual pharmacist warning students to avoid pharmacy. Your words mean nothing here, youtube is a larger platform

Problem with that is you put your face on the problem. And future employers will be able to find you.

 

[owlegrad]

I mean YouTube is a huge platform but how many views is some random pharmacist going to get putting out a video warning about saturation?

Now if Mr Beast warned kids to stay out of pharmacy school…

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

Some of you guys really need to make videos and post them on youtube. The majority of videos on youtube talking about job saturation are from current pharmacy students talking about how everything is going to be okay. Ive even seen one where they say you just need to have faith in God and you will find a job easy. I have only seen 1 video from an actual pharmacist warning students to avoid pharmacy. Your words mean nothing here, youtube is a larger platform

There's already youtubers who are practicing pharmacists talking about the saturation problem. These videos have been out for over
a year

 

[deleted727644]

There's already youtubers who are practicing pharmacists talking about the saturation problem. These videos have been out for over
a year

I dont think saturation is the main problem here. Alot of people have trouble finding jobs already and with the economy now due to COVID, its worse.

The main problems are these pharmacy schools opening and if they open they treat students very unfairly because the law doesn't tell educators how to run schools. Med students on their rotations get help from their school for living expenses yet pharmacy students have to pay out of their own pocket for hotels/airnb if they were stationed like 2+
Hours away for their rotations. We pay the same tuition…where is our money going? To feed pharmacy faculty who couldnt get jobs in the real world themselves?

 

[deleted727644]

Problem with that is you put your face on the problem. And future employers will be able to find you.

That is if future employers even get to my resume with the 100000+ applicants

But in all seriousness no one should be keeping quiet about realities of any situation. Thats how corrupt people get away. So speak up and youtube away or tik tok away since its a tik tok generation

 

[gyngyn]

Null posts have been deleted.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

That is if future employers even get to my resume with the 100000+ applicants

But in all seriousness no one should be keeping quiet about realities of any situation. Thats how corrupt people get away. So speak up and youtube away or tik tok away since its a tik tok generation

anyone in 2021 wishing to attend pharmacy school despite seeing all the current data or without doing any DD deserve to be broke and work retail to pay off their student loans...

 

[deleted727644]

anyone in 2021 wishing to attend pharmacy school despite seeing all the current data or without doing any DD deserve to be broke and work retail to pay off their student loans...

Even with a bachelors these days, youll end up working retail or receptionist somewhere. What other options do these people have? Alot of people just get higher education without even looking at the statistics because its easier to stay in school than apply to jobs in this economy in the hopes that maybe 4 years later the economy would be better.

Its better to take years off, live life, in between boost your application for med school than waste your 4 years with $200k debt in pharmacy school where you cant even help people as much as you can like you would with a medical degree or where you go to a school where Faculty doesnt even respect pharmacy students neither do the patients coming in to the pharmacy

 

[DagS132]

Problem with that is you put your face on the problem. And future employers will be able to find you.

Would employers care if you talked about job saturation? I'm not telling you guys to talk crap about your employers here.

There's already youtubers who are practicing pharmacists talking about the saturation problem. These videos have been out for over
a year

I just looked on youtube. It does look like there are more videos out there now that talk more realistically about job saturation.

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

Even with a bachelors these days, youll end up working retail or receptionist somewhere. What other options do these people have? Alot of people just get higher education without even looking at the statistics because its easier to stay in school than apply to jobs in this economy in the hopes that maybe 4 years later the economy would be better.

Its better to take years off, live life, in between boost your application for med school than waste your 4 years with $200k debt in pharmacy school where you cant even help people as much as you can like you would with a medical degree or where you go to a school where Faculty doesnt even respect pharmacy students neither do the patients coming in to the pharmacy

when I say retail I mean retail pharmacy. Bachelor degree grads just work retail retail until they find something better (and can always quit since retail pay is low), pharmDs with 200k debt don't have any choice but to work retail pharmacy until their debts are paid off

 

[sfachine]

Even with a bachelors these days, youll end up working retail or receptionist somewhere. What other options do these people have? Alot of people just get higher education without even looking at the statistics because its easier to stay in school than apply to jobs in this economy in the hopes that maybe 4 years later the economy would be better.

Its better to take years off, live life, in between boost your application for med school than waste your 4 years with $200k debt in pharmacy school where you cant even help people as much as you can like you would with a medical degree or where you go to a school where Faculty doesnt even respect pharmacy students neither do the patients coming in to the pharmacy

 

[sfachine]

Forget it.Go to a cheap school for only 4 years and get a nursing degree.You can make about 85K and considering the trend of retail salaries might end up making more.Great job security, flexibility, and can travel because their reciprocity requirements are fast and cheap.Ive always wondered why nursing does not have a section in this forum.Just because they are not "doctors"?

 

[sfachine]

Forget it.Go to a cheap school for only 4 years and get a nursing degree.You can make about 85K and considering the trend of retail salaries might end up making more than a pharmacist.Great job security, flexibility, and can travel because their reciprocity requirements are fast and cheap.Ive always wondered why nursing does not have a section in this forum.Just because they are not "doctors"?

 

[deleted727644]

Forget it.Go to a cheap school for only 4 years and get a nursing degree.You can make about 85K and considering the trend of retail salaries might end up making more.Great job security, flexibility, and can travel because their reciprocity requirements are fast and cheap.Ive always wondered why nursing does not have a section in this forum.Just because they are not "doctors"?

Right on on the flexibility. You could end up advance to doing nurse anesthesiology or nurse practitioner. I know nurses that be working long shifts but get so many off days after that

 

[projektreverb]

Would employers care if you talked about job saturation? I'm not telling you guys to talk crap about your employers here.


I just looked on youtube. It does look like there are more videos out there now that talk more realistically about job saturation.

Paul the pharmacist talks about. I don’t remember his channel name but he has a decent subscriber base. I don’t remember the name of the channel but there’s another one with similar subscriber base that talks about it.

In terms of putting your face to it, I think some employers may perceive it as a lack of commitment to the job and or profession.

 

[DagS132]

Paul the pharmacist talks about. I don’t remember his channel name but he has a decent subscriber base. I don’t remember the name of the channel but there’s another one with similar subscriber base that talks about it.

In terms of putting your face to it, I think some employers may perceive it as a lack of commitment to the job and or profession.

Yeah I remember him talking about how job saturation hasn't hit his area while he was still in school. Then like maybe a year or two after landing a job he talks about how bad job saturation is and how much worse its going to get.

 

[VA77]

Paul Tran does an excellent job of breaking down the saturation

 

[projektreverb]

Yeah I remember him talking about how job saturation hasn't hit his area while he was still in school. Then like maybe a year or two after landing a job he talks about how bad job saturation is and how much worse its going to get.

Paul Tran does an excellent job of breaking down the saturation

Agreed. I really wish his videos got more traction.

 

[Goro]

Even with lack of pharmacy experience, these pharmacy schools don’t care who they admit. as long as you have the prerequisites, youre in and you can even get it at a community college. Alot of schools don’t even need a PCAT score. They really should stop making new pharmacy schools and approving new ones. They know how bad the market is yet they’re trying to deceive our youth.

I’m also guilty of not wanting to waste time and “settle” for pharmacy school because it was easiest to get in. I wish I waited the extra year to boost my application and apply to medical school. I regret not doing so.

I have a very close friend who is on Faculty at a Pharmacy school. He tells me that some schools have closed, and others are in deep trouble. From the stories he tells me about his own school, it's a sinking ship. They'll admit pretty much any warm body these days.

 

[owlegrad]

I have a very close friend who is on Faculty at a Pharmacy school. He tells me that some schools have closed, and others are in deep trouble. From the stories he tells me about his own school, it's a sinking ship. They'll admit pretty much any warm body these days.

I have heard very similar stories from my friends in academia. I suspect it’s an open secret.

 

[VA77]

I have heard very similar stories from my friends in academia. I suspect it’s an open secret.

I work with 6 schools that all started in past 20 years and 2 have a preliminary teach out plan in place if enrollment doesn't improve.

 

[sfachine]

I work with 6 schools that all started in past 20 years and 2 have a preliminary teach out plan in place if enrollment doesn't improve.

This not an issue unique to pharmacy schools.Simple demographics indicate a dearth of high school graduates.Higher ed is in trouble and I say good.

 

[deleted727644]

I work with 6 schools that all started in past 20 years and 2 have a preliminary teach out plan in place if enrollment doesn't improve.

And if it doesnt improve, faculty starts being harsher with currently enrolled students and holding them back for any little reason just so the school can get more money through remediation or repeats

 

[Gombrich12]

This not an issue unique to pharmacy schools.Simple demographics indicate a dearth of high school graduates.Higher ed is in trouble and I say good.

Colleges ate their seed corn in some respects. I have no doubt that overburdening students with debt the past 20 years played some role in dropping birth rates and now 18 years later those effects are being seen. Also, covid is killing first year undergrad enrollment with more than a 6% decline the past two years. Those pharmacy schools with preliminary teach out plans will be using them in short order.

 

[VA77]

And if it doesnt improve, faculty starts being harsher with currently enrolled students and holding them back for any little reason just so the school can get more money through remediation or repeats

I have seen students that were supposed to repeat a year transfer to other schools without losing a day in the process. Just amazing! The schools have become Darwinian in grading students where ever they can. But I know a particular program that has instituted pass/fail grades to try to keep students from transferring because most schools won't accept them without knowing a definite GPA thus trapping them. The caveat to this is the on-time graduation rate that accreditating bodies look at to see how their admission process results in quality students but I from what I see is schools are taking this as an acceptable risk because they have to survive now and think about the future later. It really is a day-to-day operation and students are the pawns in this sick game.

 

[PharmtoCS]

So the efforts to discourage students from going into pharmacy are more important than ever.

Every single student who does not enroll in pharmacy school is $30-50k/year less for the pharmacy schools and a step closer toward closure.

 

[DH1987]

Ive even seen one where they say you just need to have faith in God and you will find a job easy.

To this, I say: "God helps those who help themselves."

 

[CarpetTable45]

Some of you guys really need to make videos and post them on youtube. The majority of videos on youtube talking about job saturation are from current pharmacy students talking about how everything is going to be okay. Ive even seen one where they say you just need to have faith in God and you will find a job easy. I have only seen 1 video from an actual pharmacist warning students to avoid pharmacy. Your words mean nothing here, youtube is a larger platform

Sidebar, but I feel old. When I learned to use the internet, when you wanted information, the quickest and easiest way to get information was to search for it, usually leading to websites or forums where you can read about things.

The idea of having to sit through videos to get information seems slow as ****. And less effective. On forums you can read a back and forth with people correcting each other within a couple minutes and have links for more information.

 

[DagS132]

Sidebar, but I feel old. When I learned to use the internet, when you wanted information, the quickest and easiest way to get information was to search for it, usually leading to websites or forums where you can read about things.

The idea of having to sit through videos to get information seems slow as ****. And less effective. On forums you can read a back and forth with people correcting each other within a couple minutes and have links for more information.

Thats what you should usually do, look up stats. But a lot of people like to see a face talking about the subject, especially someone who is in the field or at the very least in school for it. Otherwise there wouldn't be videos up already talking about job saturation nor would there be real life discussions/meetings about the subject. Of course if you just want forum style info, you will go there too.

 

[deleted727644]

So the efforts to discourage students from going into pharmacy are more important than ever.

Every single student who does not enroll in pharmacy school is $30-50k/year less for the pharmacy schools and a step closer toward closure.

Tell that to students ready to go to a low tier private school with no PCAT or barely any pre-reqs requirement. I havent heard these school say no to these students because these students take loans out for a whole year and if they fail the first year, who cares right? If that student drops out, who cares right? The school just got $50k from that person anyways. These low tier schools just make the students’ life miserable for the next 4 years.

If students do well in a low tier school, the faculty thinks they're cheating. With that kind of suspicion and treating students like criminals, why admit them? I cant stand seeing cases where a student goes from a F to an A on an exam and the unsupportive faculty questions the student “how are you doing so well” in a snarky tone. Umm maybe that student got an F because they didnt get TIME to study or had PERSONAL issues going on or the school is unorganized with the schedule and cram the students.

 

[deleted727644]

As a med student, I couldn't agree more. I see pharmacy school filled mostly with young eager kids who didn't want to feel "left behind" and when all their other friends got to wear white coats (med, PA, dentistry) OR some older folk (30s) who think it's a good field. I personally a couple in their 30s who amassed a combined ~680k debt from the same pharmacy school. One works retail 1 hr from home in the middle of nowhere and the other can't find a permanent job yet.

We have so many non-trads in my med school class and even if you just coast by you can still make $250-$350k in FM/IM/PM&R. I can splurge $300 on steak/sushi each month without worry, knowing that an extra $15k is a drop in the bucket as a future MD. If you're even a tad bit motivated, live in a non-coastal city you can easily clear 4-600k in semi-competitive specialties.

Many of the pre-pharm students I knew in college chose the field to please their parents ("my son is a doctor") or just were too afraid to try pursuing a different field

I think the one issue im seeing is that these students arent really aware of different fields because they grew up only hearing doctor and colleges or college advisors dont really guide you to other healthcare options. For example theres sonography.
Or these students have this fear that if they wait around a few years to boost their application for med school and don't get in then what? Thats a fear parents put in their child’s mind. Parents are not patient at all. They want immediate results.Well their child gonna get immediate debt thats for sure….