don't go to USC

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IdahoDoc said:
That is crazy to hear all this about USC does anyone know how true it is. IF it is looks like I might have to take it off my list. Anyone please tell what you know about USC.
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This whole thread is a conversation about how true it is, and there are other threads as well. Looking at your predents though, I'd say you don't have the luxury of removing less appealing schools from your list.
 
Yea I'm having a hard time putting USC down because of these threads. It seems that the majority thinks: USC Bad > USC Good. How is the status now?
 
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There are a lot of bitter people towards USC, but I've talked to enough people there who love it and couldn't imagine being at another school. That, in addition to other things, is the reason I chose USC over other acceptances. They have had their problems, but with the old dean leaving, and the new dean arriving this fall, there has been a lot of positive changes. I'm very confident that it will only continue to move in that direction. I have several friends who also turned down other offers to go to USC. There are always people who have negative attitudes towards their respective dental school, and after talking with them, you quickly realize that they wouldn't be content anywhere. Don't discount USC until you've tried it out for yourself!
 
^ I'm gonna give USC a try and see how it is when I visit there. Thanks
 
i went to usc for my master's degree. i saw some of the dental students in the library, they all seemed very happy. it must be the nice weather :D
 
anyone else know about the USC PBl program?
 
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Well...maybe if your question was more specific. What did you want to know? All I know is that you gather in groups of 8 students with one faculty facilitator (groups and facilitators rotate at regularly scheduled times each year) and do a set series of PBL steps in order to learn about a particular topic related to medicine or dentistry.

I didn't like it much when I "interviewed" there. That's a large part of why I didn't choose to attend that school and went to the one I am at right now. Even when I interviewed there in 2006, they were talking about adding lectures into the curriculum because they felt the supplemental lectures would assist in the PBL process. However, they didn't call them "lectures," they had some other name for them because they didn't want them to seem like lectures. I took that to mean their style of PBL wasn't working the way it was supposed to but the school refused to admit it so they kept trying to deny it while starting to move away from it. Having the dean who pushed for PBL harder than anyone else eventually step down was another sign of this I suppose.

I also believe, but don't know, that using faculty in small groups like that is probably not the best use of faculty. Small group discussion and seminars are great at my school...wish we had more...but with dental faculty at most universities stretched thin to begin with, I think the faculty could probably be used in a more judicious way. Just an opinion.
 
Thanks for your thoughts about the PBL. Anyone who has gone through or going through the PBL program want to share their advice, likes and dislikes and over all view?
 
I've also known a lot of people who chose USC over other schools, primarily other big private schools like NYU, Tufts, etc.

PBL wise, you're probably not going to get as much bang for the buck so to say from tradtional lectures simply because you don't need/required to study as much. There aren't that many full blow mid-terms and exams. Instead, you get a lot of your final grade from a comprehensive set of quizzes, participation, final exam, and finals presentation in the step series. In the past, the real final exam ( multiple choice) was only worth 15% of the final grade and failing it would still get you a pretty good grade in the course if you did well in other areas. 80%+ was an A in most classes but I've heard they are now all straight scale (might be due to grade inflation). Usc also used to attract very high caliber students, this might not be the case anymore actually.

Clinically wise, USC offers a lot of different outside rotations which helps with finishing requirements and getting more experience. I wouldn't go out and say that their system of having certain blocks of seats reserved for perio, operative, etc is the most efficient so hopefully the new dean will help fix that in the next years.
 
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Another update on the USC graduation rate:

"This year, over 90 percent of our senior class will graduate on-time, excelled on the National board Examinations, and did exceptionally well in their licensure examinations. How did this happen? It happened not because the standards of our fine school were lowered. This happened because of the dedication and caring of 9 dedicated Group Practice Directors and their staff, the exceptional faculty, both didactic and clinical, that provided these students an exceptional education, and because of the dedication and the spirit of the students."

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/update/june09/DEANSREPORT.html
 
Hysteria24 said:
Another update on the USC graduation rate:

"This year, over 90 percent of our senior class will graduate on-time, excelled on the National board Examinations, and did exceptionally well in their licensure examinations. How did this happen? It happened not because the standards of our fine school were lowered. This happened because of the dedication and caring of 9 dedicated Group Practice Directors and their staff, the exceptional faculty, both didactic and clinical, that provided these students an exceptional education, and because of the dedication and the spirit of the students."

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/update/june09/DEANSREPORT.html
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I graduated from USC this past year and I have to say that the interim Dean Abelson did make some very positive changes on the clinic floor. Scheduling chairs was much easier and there were many more available competency exam chairs than during my first clinical year. It appears to me that the 2010 class is even further ahead then we were a year ago so hopefully their graduation rate will be even higher.

I recently passed my WREB exam (taken at USC....even with the transformer / compressor failure during the first day of the exam). After taking the exam, I feel that the criteria for restorations / preps / endo at USC are much more stringent than the WREB criteria.
 
rumor has it USC will be changing into a hybrid pbl/lecture format for the 2014 class. Roughly 50% lectures.
 
Hysteria24 said:
Another update on the USC graduation rate:

"This year, over 90 percent of our senior class will graduate on-time, excelled on the National board Examinations, and did exceptionally well in their licensure examinations. How did this happen? It happened not because the standards of our fine school were lowered. This happened because of the dedication and caring of 9 dedicated Group Practice Directors and their staff, the exceptional faculty, both didactic and clinical, that provided these students an exceptional education, and because of the dedication and the spirit of the students."

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/dental/update/june09/DEANSREPORT.html
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Bullshiz!

The graduation rate dramatically increased because the administration changed the rules. The above statement is simply not true.
 
ArmyDDS2013 said:
rumor has it USC will be changing into a hybrid pbl/lecture format for the 2014 class. Roughly 50% lectures.
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one of my friends is currently attending usc dental and he has also stated this. basically, they got a new dean and this is what he is proposing. it doesnt mean it'll be 50/50 but it'll forsure be changed from the curriculum they have now (the dean wants to make a radical change).
 
anyone heard anything like this still going on at USC for this year? I applied but am not sure that I should have after reading this.
 
Rumor is a rumor and it comes from students asking faculty/admin etc. Don't bother asking admissions because no one knows for sure. What's certain is that the new dean is meeting with deans of each program discussing ideas and ways to improve PBL or maybe get rid of it all together.

It's going to take a transition year to put everything into place. I'm thinking 2014' will be the year that students get into a more 50/50 pbl/lecture format and the class after that benefiting the most with what works best.
 
Jdogs said:
anyone heard anything like this still going on at USC for this year? I applied but am not sure that I should have after reading this.
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I know a lot of people going to USC turning down offers from pitts, NYU, penn, nova, florida, UOP, etc. Location and name of the school is sometimes more important than reading too deep into the few people who hate usc...lol
 
Sorry to hear this Seansk,


I can remember how this prosthodontist came into the dental lab where I worked last summer and was just completely hyping up USC and bashing on Loma Linda. I'm sure USC was good when he went through, but this thread confirms what I have heard from my 3 family member dentists practicing within an hr. from LA.

Cheer up and just get through it!

ANZ
 
I'm a D1 at USC and I love it. There have been so many changes that the next four years should breeze by. Don't get me wrong we are already working our butts off. We were in the SIM lab the second day or orientation playing with our high speed pieces. We also have started tooth morphology and have been working on wax build ups and wax tooth carvings in the SIM lab. How many other first years are already in the SIM lab? Few to none as far as I know.

All the upperclassmen are super friendly and PBL is fun and EFFECTIVE. I learned way more my first week than I would have in a lecture. Sure it requires some research and will power but hey it's how the real world functions. No one will be there to spoon feed us when we are on our own.

And we do have lectures too. They supplement our PBL sessions and we also have a tooth morphology lecture. All in all I'm very happy with my decision to come here. SDN will soon hear about how great SC is and that sure it's not perfect but all the major problems are in the past. I feel fortunate to be part of this university at this point in time.
 
it is true that the price of the school is very high, but after talking with several dentist in LA, it seems like they make enough money to pay off their debt in less than 2 years!!!! which is not the case for graduates in other cities...
regarding the problem of chairs and patients, when I was there, from what I've seen there were more patients than students... and the new dean has spent big $$ into renewing all the clinics.
i cannot really comment on PBL and NBDE stats as I am not myself a student at USC.

otherwise good aspects of this school are:

-gorgeous campus
-best weather
-if you like blond girls USC is def for you....LOOOOL
-Location is Downtown LA
-and state of the art clinic (for the 2010 entering students)
 
littlefrenchman said:
it is true that the price of the school is very high, but after talking with several dentist in LA, it seems like they make enough money to pay off their debt in less than 2 years!!!! which is not the case for graduates in other cities...
regarding the problem of chairs and patients, when I was there, from what I've seen there were more patients than students... and the new dean has spent big $$ into renewing all the clinics.
i cannot really comment on PBL and NBDE stats as I am not myself a student at USC.

otherwise good aspects of this school are:

-gorgeous campus
-best weather
-if you like blond girls USC is def for you....LOOOOL
-Location is Downtown LA
-and state of the art clinic (for the 2010 entering students)
Click to expand...

I can guarantee you that graduates of USC do not pay off their ~400k of debt in less than two years.
 
Trust me, even faculties of USC are complaining about the system. My ex-advisor gradutaed from USC dental school in late 90s.He said those were the worst years in his life. Faculties were trying every way to give him a hard time. Fortunately now he is the associatre dean there. And he told us he really wanna change these.
 
bigheadfish said:
Trust me, even faculties of USC are complaining about the system. My ex-advisor gradutaed from USC dental school in late 90s.He said those were the worst years in his life. Faculties were trying every way to give him a hard time. Fortunately now he is the associatre dean there. And he told us he really wanna change these.
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I am glad to hear that. I've heard that USC used to be one of the best dental schools in the country, but after switching to PBL educational system, everything started going south. I hope they start changing stuff in time for the class entering in 2010. However, making changes to the curriculum takes time and is quite difficult.
 
littlefrenchman said:
it is true that the price of the school is very high, but after talking with several dentist in LA, it seems like they make enough money to pay off their debt in less than 2 years!!!! which is not the case for graduates in other cities...
regarding the problem of chairs and patients, when I was there, from what I've seen there were more patients than students... and the new dean has spent big $$ into renewing all the clinics.
i cannot really comment on PBL and NBDE stats as I am not myself a student at USC.

otherwise good aspects of this school are:

-gorgeous campus
-best weather
-if you like blond girls USC is def for you....LOOOOL
-Location is Downtown LA
-and state of the art clinic (for the 2010 entering students)
Click to expand...

This is a joke, right? You dont honestly want people to believe that do you? Even the head of financial aid there said when you get out and practice, LA is saturated and he said if you stay in southern Cal you can only expect to make $100-150K your first year. Do you know how much money you would have to make a year right out of school to pay off a $400K debt in 2 years?! Thats absolutely false and semi-crazy. I hope you're joking but Im afraid you're not.
 
jol2008 said:
I am glad to hear that. I've heard that USC used to be one of the best dental schools in the country, but after switching to PBL educational system, everything started going south. I hope they start changing stuff in time for the class entering in 2010. However, making changes to the curriculum takes time and is quite difficult.
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The truth is USC is still a very good school. In the late 1990's, board scores were decreasing and many people were not passing. This caused the initiative of new curriculum (PBL) as a pilot program for those interested in pbl and those selected off the waitlist. This "test" year had both pbl and traditional programs going on simultaneously. The end result was that the students in the PBL program scored very well on their board exams while those in the traditional program performed lower. This small sample size of students became the evidence that USC needed to improve their school and their reputation as it was slowly declining due to poor pass rates. However the story is deeper than that. The initial creators of the PBL program at USC were former heads or very prominent researchers over at the health campus Center of cranial facial surgery. Due to budget cuts, many were about to lose their jobs and labs until they "helped" to create PBL and save their jobs. A new program was established but it did not evolve and was never perfected. I can go on with more the details but despite everything you hear on SDN, USC is still a very good school with a great public (not pre-dent) reputation. All graduates still somehow have a D.D.S. attached to their name and even ADA accredited the school :D

There are some changes going on but on the whole, "PBL" is still pretty BS and people complain about paying so much for getting so little in return. It works sometimes, other times its deadly. So much "buyer remorse" going on that its sickening. BTW, not everyone takes out 400k in loans. In fact, very few people take out the MAX 400k. Most people are in the 300-350k range. :laugh:
 
seansk said:
just don't go here, You know, you can read all my old posts, I used to Love USC, PBL etc. I even fought for USC I have completely changed my mind. I was wrong, and I admit it. here we have to FIGHT FOR PATIENTS, FIGHT FOR OPEN CHAIRS, FIGHT WITH FACULTY. PBL DOES NOT PREPARE YOU FOR BOARDS. THERE ARE NO LECTURES. FACULTY ALWAYS THINK YOUR A DELINQUENT. THEY GET MAD AT YOU FOR NOW REASON. half the clinic chairs are open but no one can use them because they are in the wrong section...WASTED CLINIC SPACE... YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR OWN PATIENT. SCHOOL GIVES YOU NON maybe like 2 patients or 3 your entire time your there. This is just the tip of the iceberg. In that sense there are a few and I do mean just a few wonderful people there that are trying their best to help out... and they know the system is messed up too.

The entire system is flawed, no wonder 2 years ago there was a 17 percent graduation rate. And from what I hear they are changing the entire system to the traditional system...but don't count on it!!! if you get into anywhere else GO THERE..
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I am a 4th year student here too. Last years graduation rate was 93% or so. We had a bad dean for a while but things are looking good now. People still complain but I have had a great experience at USC. I am done with requirements 6 months early. We need 20 fixed units (crowns) to graduate and I think I will have around 40 by graduation. I have had the opportunity to do veneer cases, restore implants, I have finished all my competency exams. We have great faculty (not all of them) but once you find who you like to work with you get the opportunity to work with them consistently and learn the same style. We have numerous opportunities which other schools do not offer: IV sedation team, perio selective, esthetic selective, oral surgery selective, and so on. These selective programs go above and beyond any experience other students get at other schools. I do not know of any other school that gives you a chance to graduate with a license in IV sedation. Im not saying you will get to participate in all or any of these programs. But people do, I did. If you consider yourself a go-getter, then this school is for you. Fact of life is that no program will spoon feed you everything you want while you sit back and whine. Same as undergrad, going to office hours, spend extra hours studying, etc.

The motivation to come on a forum and bad mouth your school comes from being extremely frustrated. No one comes on here to tell you how much they love USC because they are busy with school and getting **** done. I came on here after I heard that classmates are bad-mouthing my school and I just wanted to share with you all that many of us are having great experiences. Good luck, contact me if you need any more help/advice. Id be glad to talk to anyone, as I have lots of free time since I am done now =)
 
jamezli said:
jw.. did anyone changed their minds about USC after reading this thread?
I personally like the school..
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Personally, I really like USC. Unless my state school accepts me, it's my numero uno choice.
 
I really liked USC as well. I read this thread prior to interviewing, but I'm the type of person that makes my own informed decisions--so I just put all the bashing aside and tried to learn more about the school.

Personally, I like the idea of PBL. I tend to thrive in small groups, but aside from that I think you would learn more by doing your own research. Lectures are easy to just zone out and show up, whereas in PBL, you're forced to be prepared and interact. As an engineer, I participated in PBL type classes and I retained much information by learning and discussing what I learned. In a lecture, I tend to learn, rock the exam, then forget a lot of it.

I did find it odd that during my interview session there were only D1's during our lunch...and they were all obviously excited and happy to be there. That made me a little uneasy, because I would have to ask them questions phrased "Do your D3/D4 friends ever...?"

Yea, the school's expensive, but if you're happy and getting good education, the financial side will work itself out.

The school isn't for everyone, I personally really liked it and wished I was offered a 1st round acceptance.
 
So to the USC dental students. I got in to both USC and Howard. I really liked my Howard interview and thought the dean and faculty were really nice and helpful and the labs were nice but I figured I should go to USC just for the name and because Howard's rank is low even though many students there are saying you come out really knowing your stuff. What do you guys think I should do?
 
So to the USC dental students. I got in to both USC and Howard. I really liked my Howard interview and thought the dean and faculty were really nice and helpful and the labs were nice but I figured I should go to USC just for the name and because Howard's rank is low even though many students there are saying you come out really knowing your stuff. What do you guys think I should do?
 
So to the USC dental students. I got in to both USC and Howard. I really liked my Howard interview and thought the dean and faculty were really nice and helpful and the labs were nice but I figured I should go to USC just for the name and because Howard's rank is low even though many students there are saying you come out really knowing your stuff. What do you guys think I should do?
 
So to the USC dental students. I got in to both USC and Howard. I really liked my Howard interview and thought the dean and faculty were really nice and helpful and the labs were nice but I figured I should go to USC just for the name and because Howard's rank is low even though many students there are saying you come out really knowing your stuff. What do you guys think I should do?
 
So to the USC dental students. I got in to both USC and Howard. I really liked my Howard interview and thought the dean and faculty were really nice and helpful and the labs were nice but I figured I should go to USC just for the name and because Howard's rank is low even though many students there are saying you come out really knowing your stuff. What do you guys think I should do?
 
Nati911 said:
So to the USC dental students. I got in to both USC and Howard. I really liked my Howard interview and thought the dean and faculty were really nice and helpful and the labs were nice but I figured I should go to USC just for the name and because Howard's rank is low even though many students there are saying you come out really knowing your stuff. What do you guys think I should do?
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What do you mean by rank? Dental schools are unranked. Howard (IIRC) is about 1/2 the cost of USC. You'd be insane to go to USC just because of what some imaginary people might possibly think. The DDS you'll get from Howard is of the same quality and nature as the DDS you'll get from anywhere else.
 
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Hey guys,
I am first year at USC just finished my trimester so I here to talk about this thread. The PBL program is ok. I mean its not the best in that you always feel like you are learning soooo much and overwhelmed. My friend goes to UCLA and has lectures all day, I am glad I dont have that. The thing with PBL is, it depends on the people in your group and the facilitator u have. But honestly I learn what I want to learn, if there was a lecture I would be bored everyday because I have to sit there. Probably means I would skip on some cuz its boring. At least with PBL you kinda have to do your work, I mean there is only 8 people in your group and it doesn't take a genius to find out u didnt turn in your learning need. So at least every other day you learn something in depth for yourself and because u have to explain it to your group, your recall of the information improves.

All that said, the midterms and finals are like WTF... Some of the questions are so random that I have no idea if anyone did learning needs on them in the whole class of 144. Most of my friends feel like they are lost when the midterms and finals comes around. But i dont know my grades yet so I'll let you guys know how I did when I get them.

The overall impression I got from my first trimester at USC was this. USC has its own workings, and you just have to follow it. For example, in sim lab, its hard getting TAs to come to the corner especially when all the girls are sitting on the other side. :( Soooo I made a friend with one of the TAs and he pretty much checks off all my preps and wax up. At x-ray rotation, the faculty was like do this this and that and left, my partner and I was use to the system enough to talk to one of the TAs to go through step by step the whole process while we were taking X-rays. MAKE FRIENDS + KNOWING YOUR STUFF = GETTING THINGS DONE. This is what I learned, the USC way.
 
wilson,

have you guys had any formal lectures yet? do you know if there has been any changes to the PBL curriculum compared to what the D2's experienced?

thanks
 
Mr Hands said:
wilson,

have you guys had any formal lectures yet? do you know if there has been any changes to the PBL curriculum compared to what the D2's experienced?

thanks
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can any other usc student answer these?
 
Mr Hands said:
can any other usc student answer these?
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We have formal lectures for dental tooth morphology, the pre-clinical course that is every other week. The off weeks is a PBL follow up resource session. Both these last 1 hour and are the only required "lectures" for the first semester. This changes later in the 3rd semester where there is anatomy lab etc. at the medical campus and other lectures in amalgam etc.

There are other lectures given in small groups when you are rotation about doing stuff like sealants etc. but that is basically the scope of lectures at USC. They are rare. Basically from what I understand, there will be no signficant changes to the curriculum in the short term. What it seems like they are doing is actually trying to tweak the existing PBL system and make it better but not eliminate it.
 
xhamburgersamx said:
We have formal lectures for dental tooth morphology, the pre-clinical course that is every other week. The off weeks is a PBL follow up resource session. Both these last 1 hour and are the only required "lectures" for the first semester. This changes later in the 3rd semester where there is anatomy lab etc. at the medical campus and other lectures in amalgam etc.

There are other lectures given in small groups when you are rotation about doing stuff like sealants etc. but that is basically the scope of lectures at USC. They are rare. Basically from what I understand, there will be no signficant changes to the curriculum in the short term. What it seems like they are doing is actually trying to tweak the existing PBL system and make it better but not eliminate it.
Click to expand...

This is identical to my D1. The new dean sent out a letter to all the alumni to "announce" that he was making an announcement in January. Maybe it'll have something to do with updating the curriculum or renovating the clinic floor.
 
xhamburgersamx said:
We have formal lectures for dental tooth morphology, the pre-clinical course that is every other week. The off weeks is a PBL follow up resource session. Both these last 1 hour and are the only required "lectures" for the first semester. This changes later in the 3rd semester where there is anatomy lab etc. at the medical campus and other lectures in amalgam etc.

There are other lectures given in small groups when you are rotation about doing stuff like sealants etc. but that is basically the scope of lectures at USC. They are rare. Basically from what I understand, there will be no signficant changes to the curriculum in the short term. What it seems like they are doing is actually trying to tweak the existing PBL system and make it better but not eliminate it.
Click to expand...
blumnday99 said:
This is identical to my D1. The new dean sent out a letter to all the alumni to "announce" that he was making an announcement in January. Maybe it'll have something to do with updating the curriculum or renovating the clinic floor.
Click to expand...


thanks for the reply. would you mind posting when the announcement is revealed?
 
Mr Hands said:
thanks for the reply. would you mind posting when the announcement is revealed?
Click to expand...

Definitely...off the top of my head I believe it's scheduled for the 2nd or 3rd week of January. I'm not sure if they're going to mail another letter to the alumni or make the announcement at school though.
 
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