Don't like medical school

[Student212121]

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Hey guys, so I'm currently an M1 and I am not liking medical school so far. Don't get me wrong though, I like what I'm learning and stuff but I just don't really like the environment. There's just a lot of restrictions and everyone seems to be more mature than me. Is this wrong? Does anyone else feel like this? Does anyone else feel like undergrad was a better experience from them? And can anyone much more experienced tell me if the future career is a lot better than what I'm facing as an M1 student?

 

[HomeSkool]

It gets worse before it gets better, but if you see it through the payoff is totally worth the sacrifice. The career is much better than the training. Like, infinitely better.

Undergrad is almost always more fun than med school. You had fewer responsibilities, the classes and pace were lighter, etc. That's because you were working toward a bachelor's degree. Now you're working toward a doctorate. The level of suck has increased, but so has the reward.

If everyone else is less mature than you, there's not much you can do. If they're all more mature, well, the solution to that is in your hands.

 

[ciestar]

Med school is brutal. It isn’t “fun” like undergrad. Slacking used to be an option, now it isn’t.
I am an MS2 and still struggle with the “I can’t just drop everything and go do this before an exam”.

It is what it is. If you want to be a doctor, you make the sacrifice. Still make time for yourself and some fun, but just realize it can’t be as often as you’d like.

 

[W19]

It gets worse before it gets better, but if you see it through the payoff is totally worth the sacrifice. The career is much better than the training. Like, infinitely better.

Undergrad is almost always more fun than med school. You had fewer responsibilities, the classes and pace were lighter, etc. That's because you were working toward a bachelor's degree. Now you're working toward a doctorate. The level of suck has increased, but so has the reward.

If everyone else is less mature than you, there's not much you can do. If they're all more mature, well, the solution to that is in your hands.

I hope this is true because many docs are discouraging people (even their children) from pursuing a career in medicine.

 

[Gorne]

Perfect example of one of the many issues wrong with the medical education process. Children that have no idea what they are getting into will be making medical decisions in 4 short years. This is without getting into the damage it can have on the child.

 

[libertyyne]

I hope this is true because many docs are discouraging people (even their children) from pursuing a career in medicine.

Most doctors have never worked in other careers.

 

[DBV]

Perfect example of one of the many issues wrong with the medical education process. Children that have no idea what they are getting into will be making medical decisions in 4 short years. This is without getting into the damage it can have on the child.

Yeah they should make the minimum age 35 to enter medical school! Then we can all start our careers as mature salt and peppered 45!

 

[Gorne]

Yeah they should make the minimum age 35 to enter medical school! Then we can all start our careers as mature salt and peppered 45!

Not at all what I said. Changes need to be made, it's not about having medical students be physically older. But something like at least 1-2 years real-world experience before a 3 year curriculum would be a HUGE positive change.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Most doctors have never worked in other careers.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

It gets worse before it gets better, but if you see it through the payoff is totally worth the sacrifice. The career is much better than the training. Like, infinitely better.

first, thank you for your post. Next I would like to ask if you could substantiate that the payoff is worth the sacrifice? I have worked in a hospital for over 7 years and I see a lot of burned out docs. Going through medschool, it does not seem to be worth it, which I agree with the first part of sentence 1. Being a physician, can you speak to what ways the rewards far supersede the misery of medschool and doc burnout? Thank you.

 

[kb1900]

Not at all what I said. Changes need to be made, it's not about having medical students be physically older. But something like at least 1-2 years real-world experience before a 3 year curriculum would be a HUGE positive change.

Or maybe undergrad shouldn’t be a catastrophic waste of time...just sayin’


take all the premed requirements in 2 years (potentially even faster if we can count ap credits for psych, chem, bio), skip the liberal arts requirements, Get some real world experience + travel and finish the mcat and apply to schools in 1-2 years.

 

[W19]

Most doctors have never worked in other careers.

I completely agree. As someone who worked as a dishwasher---->busboy----> stock clerk----> staff RN and volunteering in construction for Habitat for Humanity (HfH) sometimes before going to med school, I always say to myself when I hear these docs complaining: Can medicine be harder than working in construction 5days/wk?

 

[libertyyne]

Or maybe undergrad shouldn’t be a catastrophic waste of time...just sayin’


take all the premed requirements in 2 years (potentially even faster if we can count ap credits for psych, chem, bio), skip the liberal arts requirements, Get some real world experience + travel and finish the mcat and apply to schools in 1-2 years.

If you are motivated and take a full load in summers you can get out of college in 2.5-3 years.

 

[jcorpsmanMD]

I completely agree. As some from who worked as a dishwasher---->busboy----> stock clerk----> staff RN and volunteering in construction for Habitat for Humanity (HfH) sometimes before going to med school, I always say to myself when I hear these docs complaining: Can medicine be harder than working in construction 5days/wk?

Yup.. exactly what I think when I hear others complain or even when i start feeling sorry for myself. Would I rather be on the roof of a house putting down shingles in the scorching heat, moving people from sun up to sun down, or mindlessly inserting buttons into car panels for 12 hour shifts until my thumbs begin to blister and bleed.. nope. That’s the problem with medical school though, the kids who make it here are very intelligent but don’t have a lot of “grit” because they’ve never had to endure tough times. Grit will get you to places. We need more GRIT in our generation.

 

[Goro]

Most doctors have never worked in other careers.

Indeed, for many med students nowadays, their first employment ever will be residency. This is why we like non-trad students so much.

 

[ciestar]

Most doctors have never worked in other careers.

Or, well, at all.

Indeed, for many med students nowadays, their first employment ever will be residency. This is why we like non-trad students so much.

This stuns me, honestly. I couldn’t imagine my first job being “doctor”. I was a retail slave for 3.5 years and I think it bettered me.

 

[theonlytycrane]

This stuns me, honestly. I couldn’t imagine my first job being “doctor”. I was a retail slave for 3.5 years and I think it bettered me.

this ^ x 1000. I've worked in the worst jobs so grinding to be a doctor is nothing.

 

[ciestar]

this ^ x 1000. I've worked in the worst jobs so grinding to be a doctor is nothing.

I worked at CVS and I am already used to be yelled at all day by angry/frustrated people. Taught me so much patience because you cannot yell back when they say something nasty.

 

[Goro]

Or, well, at all.



This stuns me, honestly. I couldn’t imagine my first job being “doctor”. I was a retail slave for 3.5 years and I think it bettered me.

The phenomenon is having negative consequences for both preceptors and PDs. Their students and residents are showing poor employment ethics, like wanting to take vacation the day after they show up, wanting to leave early or come in late, etc. This is not merely seen with my own students, it's nationwide, MD and DO.

At my school a couple of students have landed in hot water professionalism-wise due to this.

 

[Scrubs101]

Med school sucks and every single resident/upper classman/physician i have ever talked to says it just gets worse and worse each year throughout training (exception of 4th year)

While some attendings ive talked with do complain frequently and some even try and talk pre-meds out of medicine, they all also say attending-hood >>>>any part of training. Especially the fresh out of residency attendings (thought admittedly it has been said this can be stressful due to everything falling on your back/not having a safety net anymore)

But what i do know is med school is a hell of a lot more tolerable long term than bussing double shifts, working landscaping, etc. I think it’s important to work a few sh**** jobs in life early on so you can appreciate what you have later on/motivate yourself to not want to do those jobs for the rest of your life

 

[ciestar]

The phenomenon is having negative consequences for both preceptors and PDs. Their students and residents are showing poor employment ethics, like wanting to take vacation the day after they show up, wanting to leave early or come in late, etc. This is not merely seen with my own students, it's nationwide, MD and DO.

At my school a couple of students have landed in hot water professionalism-wise due to this.

Wow, entitlement at its best.

 

[TRPMinus]

The phenomenon is having negative consequences for both preceptors and PDs. Their students and residents are showing poor employment ethics, like wanting to take vacation the day after they show up, wanting to leave early or come in late, etc. This is not merely seen with my own students, it's nationwide, MD and DO.

At my school a couple of students have landed in hot water professionalism-wise due to this.

This type of stuff never ceases to amaze me. You really don't have to be an "all star" to be an "all star", even at this level. If you show up and be a decent human being and try the results will probably follow.

 

[Goro]

This type of stuff never ceases to amaze me. You really don't have to be an "all star" to be an "all star", even at this level. If you show up and be a decent human being and try the results will probably follow.

Remember, for a lot of people, the goal was to get INTO medical school. Becoming a doctor was secondary.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I completely agree. As some from who worked as a dishwasher---->busboy----> stock clerk----> staff RN and volunteering in construction for Habitat for Humanity (HfH) sometimes before going to med school, I always say to myself when I hear these docs complaining: Can medicine be harder than working in construction 5days/wk?

I volunteered at a homeless shelter and would help people like those find jobs. Construction and similar fields is back breaking labor. Some of these people could do the job any more after 10 years of it. The few I met could barely lift 50 pounds after all those years. I would have to find them either an office job or something that isn't labor oriented. I felt so damn awful for these people. I find medical school a far better situation to be in than these people, even though I still have to study on the weekends.

 

[HomeSkool]

first, thank you for your post. Next I would like to ask if you could substantiate that the payoff is worth the sacrifice? I have worked in a hospital for over 7 years and I see a lot of burned out docs. Going through medschool, it does not seem to be worth it, which I agree with the first part of sentence 1. Being a physician, can you speak to what ways the rewards far supersede the misery of medschool and doc burnout? Thank you.

I'm not sure that's something that can be definitively substantiated since the perception of the value of intangibles is subjective. My job is hard and frequently demanding, but I also find it very life-affirming and exhilarating. As an example, I'm on nights right now and last night was a real doozy with several major trauma cases requiring massive resuscitation. At the end of the night, I was completely exhausted, but I went home knowing I'd been the leader of a team that saved three lives in one night. How many people can go home from work and say that? The crap I had to go through to get here was challenging and sometimes demoralizing, but now I get to spend the rest of my career doing something I absolutely love and that makes a life-changing difference for others. To me, experiences like last night are worth far more than the price I had to pay to get here.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I'm not sure that's something that can be definitively substantiated since the perception of the value of intangibles is subjective. My job is hard and frequently demanding, but I also find it very life-affirming and exhilarating. As an example, I'm on nights right now and last night was a real doozy with several major trauma cases requiring massive resuscitation. At the end of the night, I was completely exhausted, but I went home knowing I'd been the leader of a team that saved three lives in one night. How many people can go home from work and say that? The crap I had to go through to get here was challenging and sometimes demoralizing, but now I get to spend the rest of my career doing something I absolutely love and that makes a life-changing difference for others. To me, experiences like last night are worth far more than the price I had to pay to get here.

Thank you. You are correct on the subjective nature, but your expirence and passion canote a conviction. It sounds that you truly care about helping others.

 

[Pepe18]

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[jcorpsmanMD]

I get what you are saying, but most doctors weren't debating medicine vs manual labor.

Working for 2 years full-time before med school actually contributes to the reasons I dislike medicine. I don't mind hard work and I love the material and I love working with patients. I can't stand jumping through hoops and being made to dance like a monkey and I absolutely hate how people treat each other. Grown adult attendings play manipulative games, say what they want, and administrators screw us over to teach us "life lessons" (the actual words they used). I know that the kind of stuff pulled here would not be tolerated in other jobs. I know in other jobs I wouldn't stand silent when someone made fun of gay people in front of me, etc. Yeah, all jobs have their problems and some degree of hoop jumping, but there is more power to do something about your complaints. And having worked outside of medicine has let me see how immature and nasty so many people in this field can be. I'm still optimistic that it will get better though

Not sure what you mean. Everything you just stated i have witnessed in almost every job I’ve ever had, and if anything it was worse. At least in medicine people attempt the whole professionalism thing from time to time. Manual labor or not, everything you stated is not unique to medicine what so ever. Welcome to society in 2018.

 

[Pepe18]

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[njtrimed]

I hope this is true because many docs are discouraging people (even their children) from pursuing a career in medicine.

I think another component to this that nobody has mentioned so far is that medicine has changed, and a lot of physicians were used to working more autonomously and (in many cases) making more money. I can understand why they are frustrated given their experience, but what was a huge change to them is just the norm for those of us entering the field, and has been for some time.

Not sure what you mean. Everything you just stated i have witnessed in almost every job I’ve ever had, and if anything it was worse. At least in medicine people attempt the whole professionalism thing from time to time. Manual labor or not, everything you stated is not unique to medicine what so ever. Welcome to society in 2018.

This has been my experience as well, and it's true for pretty much anyone who is an employee. I'm sure there are perks to going into other industries, but there are perks to medicine as well. Pursue what you really want to, and you can sort out the details down the road. If you know early on that you don't love medicine, quit before you're $300,000 in debt. Otherwise, trust that you'll figure out how to make it work for you as you get established.

 

[libertyyne]

I get what you are saying, but most doctors weren't debating medicine vs manual labor.

Working for 2 years full-time before med school actually contributes to the reasons I dislike medicine. I don't mind hard work and I love the material and I love working with patients. I can't stand jumping through hoops and being made to dance like a monkey and I absolutely hate how people treat each other. Grown adult attendings play manipulative games, say what they want, and administrators screw us over to teach us "life lessons" (the actual words they used). I know that the kind of stuff pulled here would not be tolerated in other jobs. I know in other jobs I wouldn't stand silent when someone made fun of gay people in front of me, etc. Yeah, all jobs have their problems and some degree of hoop jumping, but there is more power to do something about your complaints. And having worked outside of medicine has let me see how immature and nasty so many people in this field can be. I'm still optimistic that it will get better though

You clearly didn't work at the organizations I worked at prior to medicine. Office politics, sucking up to the boss, getting screwed by admin, jumping through hoops. Human nature, and organizational culture are not something that that is unique to medicine.

 

[Pepe18]

.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I completely agree. As someone who worked as a dishwasher---->busboy----> stock clerk----> staff RN and volunteering in construction for Habitat for Humanity (HfH) sometimes before going to med school, I always say to myself when I hear these docs complaining: Can medicine be harder than working in construction 5days/wk?

I always ask, can it be harder than being in a 140 degree desert for a year straight, getting shot at while having a chain of command that is more worried about offending the enemy than his own troops lives? And RN school was extremely easy. I don't know what everyone was complaining about.

 

[NickNaylor]

Medical school is a pretty huge beat down - I think that’s a fairly typical part of the experience. Your complaints about the experience are vague and I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to. Your classmates are “more mature” than you? What do you mean by that? Congratulations, you’re getting older: people start to settle down, get married, and have kids, and having a totally sweet kegger, dude on Friday night is no longer the paramount of fun. This is how life works.

I hated most of the actual work of medical school but have absolutely loved my residency experience. I think I will love independent practice even more. Granted, I’m in a relatively “cush” field so I don’t know if your experience would be the same in, say, medicine or surgery, but I have no regrets now about my decision. Again, this evolution seems to be fairly typical when you talk to enough folks.

 

[longhaul3]

I think you will be fine, if only because everyone makes it eventually. The attrition rate is consistently around 1 in 20 (using my med school's historical data for reference although I think it is fairly comparable across the MD world), which is pretty remarkable when you think about it.

Frankly I am impressed that you are even aware that others seem to be more mature than you are. That means you are self-aware, which, besides academically capable, is all you need to be to get through med school. When the clinical year comes, you will be able to tell when to speak and when not to. You'll be able to tell how to respond to angry, sad, confused patients. And by the way, the fact that you sense your immaturity means to me that you are more mature than you think you are.

 

[sab3156]

You clearly didn't work at the organizations I worked at prior to medicine. Office politics, sucking up to the boss, getting screwed by admin, jumping through hoops. Human nature, and organizational culture are not something that that is unique to medicine.

I was literally typing this exact same post... man, working in finance was so depressing...

 

[Mcar11]

I get what you are saying, but most doctors weren't debating medicine vs manual labor.

Working for 2 years full-time before med school actually contributes to the reasons I dislike medicine. I don't mind hard work and I love the material and I love working with patients. I can't stand jumping through hoops and being made to dance like a monkey and I absolutely hate how people treat each other. Grown adult attendings play manipulative games, say what they want, and administrators screw us over to teach us "life lessons" (the actual words they used). I know that the kind of stuff pulled here would not be tolerated in other jobs. I know in other jobs I wouldn't stand silent when someone made fun of gay people in front of me, etc. Yeah, all jobs have their problems and some degree of hoop jumping, but there is more power to do something about your complaints. And having worked outside of medicine has let me see how immature and nasty so many people in this field can be. I'm still optimistic that it will get better though

All of this.
As a non-trad in my 30’s, I often feel this way. The level of immaturity, unprofessionalism, and bigotry that is tolerated in medicine is unlike anything I have ever experienced in a corporate setting. I have heard doctors, classmates, and professors say and do absolutely abhorrent things and I am consistently stunned. Hell, even the fact that kids drink after am exams and go on to the next class weirds me out lol.

I suppose that when you do have professional experience, you approach school the way that you approach work, so anything to the contrary feels inappropriate. And, well, it is.

Regarding the mean-spiritedness of it all, I do think the average age of students entering medical school in concert with the fact that these are kids with highly limited work/ life experience, feeds into this—well into residency and beyond. It actually reminds me of the hazing students do in college within the Greek system—one progresses and treats the new batch of pledges like crap. Not to mention the fact that many students carry with them the notion that “MD = financially and intellectually superior.” I think this contributes a great deal to the disrespect I see towards nurses, techs, PAs, etc.

Long story short, many young students have understandably, never had the benefit of truly having their a$$ handed to them by work or life. I think this makes disappointment and consequence much harder to handle and the practice of medicine becomes even more daunting than it already can be. I dont necessarily believe all students should wait until they were almost 40 to begin a career in medicine, but pre-school to doctor simply doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[RNtoMD87]

All of this.
As a non-trad in my 30’s, I often feel this way. The level of immaturity, unprofessionalism, and bigotry that is tolerated in medicine is unlike anything I have ever experienced in a corporate setting. I have heard doctors, classmates, and professors say and do absolutely abhorrent things and I am consistently stunned. Hell, even the fact that kids drink after am exams and go on to the next class weirds me out lol.

I suppose that when you do have professional experience, you approach school the way that you approach work, so anything to the contrary feels inappropriate. And, well, it is.

Regarding the mean-spiritedness of it all, I do think the average age of students entering medical school in concert with the fact that these are kids with highly limited work/ life experience, feeds into this—well into residency and beyond. It actually reminds me of the hazing students do in college within the Greek system—one progresses and treats the new batch of pledges like crap. Not to mention the fact that many students carry with them the notion that “MD = financially and intellectually superior.” I think this contributes a great deal to the disrespect I see towards nurses, techs, PAs, etc.

Long story short, many young students have understandably, never had the benefit of truly having their a$$ handed to them by work or life. I think this makes disappointment and consequence much harder to handle and the practice of medicine becomes even more daunting than it already can be. I dont necessarily believe all students should wait until they were almost 40 to begin a career in medicine, but pre-school to doctor simply doesn’t make sense to me.

I guess I'm just used to that. In the Army we were always drunk on our days off by 10AM when we worked nights. Hell after deployment, we were drunk every day for 2 months straight because we couldn't do police work, drive, or possess weapons. But I chock that up to being 20. By the time I was 22, I had it out of my system.

 

[newbie04]

OP, it gets better. Just put your head and study.

Medical school was like high school for a bunch of Type As. Just realize that you will graduate, move on and everyone else will too.

I made some good friends in Residency, not in medical school; medical school is a means to an end.

Keep in touch with people that truly care about you: your family and other friends along the way.

Hang in there!


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

 

[RNtoMD87]

To be honest it doesnt really get better. First two years were the best because you determined your schedule. For me it meant never going to lecture, waking up at 9 everyday, and never having to interact with my class. third year absolutely sucks because im having to get up at around 4 am everyday, i have to work with other med students who are absolute gunners, i get ****ed over by residents and attendings, and basically im starting to regret medicine more and more. i cant believe how superficial people are too. i got a scalp infection recently and had to shave my head and even though my hair will be back fine, people treat me so much differently. people are not as nice and get annoyed more easily, especially nurses who are less willing to do things for you. a couple months ago i could get away with so much, now people get annoyed if i make the slightest mistake. im 100% sure im not imagining it.

I just can't understand how it can be so bad. Our residents where I work will let a patient be on deaths door, all the while we tell them "CALL THE ATTENDING" and for some reason they absolutely refuse. I told one last week he needed to send a declining vent dependent lady to the unit, and he drug his feet for a whole shift, had us keep drawing repeat abgs etc, and finally the CCMS attending came up, ripped him a new one in front of everyone, and sent the lady to the unit like we had been asking all night. The resident had the nerve to call me his "bad luck charm". I was like the only bad luck around here is this guy. Thankfully our CCMS attending is a real cool guy. If you need something done you just call him.

 

[RNtoMD87]

To be honest it doesnt really get better. First two years were the best because you determined your schedule. For me it meant never going to lecture, waking up at 9 everyday, and never having to interact with my class. third year absolutely sucks because im having to get up at around 4 am everyday, i have to work with other med students who are absolute gunners, i get ****ed over by residents and attendings, and basically im starting to regret medicine more and more. i cant believe how superficial people are too. i got a scalp infection recently and had to shave my head and even though my hair will be back fine, people treat me so much differently. people are not as nice and get annoyed more easily, especially nurses who are less willing to do things for you. a couple months ago i could get away with so much, now people get annoyed if i make the slightest mistake. im 100% sure im not imagining it.

Why would you not want to go to class? I'm excited about what all I will learn in med school. I miss being in a physical classroom, I hate online college.

 

[libertyyne]

I just can't understand how it can be so bad. Our residents where I work will let a patient be on deaths door, all the while we tell them "CALL THE ATTENDING" and for some reason they absolutely refuse. I told one last week he needed to send a declining vent dependent lady to the unit, and he drug his feet for a whole shift, had us keep drawing repeat abgs etc, and finally the CCMS attending came up, ripped him a new one in front of everyone, and sent the lady to the unit like we had been asking all night. The resident had the nerve to call me his "bad luck charm". I was like the only bad luck around here is this guy. Thankfully our CCMS attending is a real cool guy. If you need something done you just call him.

its easy to look at tough decisions from the outside when you dont have the same depth of knowledge and see a bad decision. How many of the resident's good decisions did you fail to notice? Maybe you will be in that persons shoes someday and will realize its never as simple as you make it sound and probably should give the resident the benefit of the doubt. in one breath you say cant be that bad and in the other you describe him getting ripped apart infront of everyone by the attending.

 

[RNtoMD87]

its easy to look at tough decisions from the outside when you dont have the same depth of knowledge and see a bad decision. How many of the resident's good decisions did you fail to notice? Maybe you will be in that persons shoes someday and will realize its never as simple as you make it sound and probably should give the resident the benefit of the doubt. in one breath you say cant be that bad and in the other you describe him getting ripped apart infront of everyone by the attending.

No I'm saying how bad can it be. Most residents I see, especially ENT are on point, this HMS resident was special, and his peers told us so. They voted him "most likely to get someone killed" according to my cousins wife who is also an HMS resident.

I just don't understand why when in over your head, why not ask for help? This attending is a very nice guy. He just gets fed up when patients are about to die. He got called to a code once and the residents said they didn't plan on intubating even though the man wasn't breathing. He said "I don't know why I'm here. I don't want to speak to another f'ing resident tonight." But I mean cmon it's a code where the guy isn't responding, of course he needed to be intubated. You don't need to be a doctor to know that.

The main thing that gets me, is when you have several 20+ year experience Critical care RNs strongly expressing a like opinion, it may be wise to consider it, I learned early on as an RN, when that 20+ year CNA tells you something, it may be a good idea to listen. People don't usually spend 20 years doing something and not pick up some knowledge, it doesn't matter what level they are. That's all.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Why would you not want to go to class? I'm excited about what all I will learn in med school. I miss being in a physical classroom, I hate online college.

You only have time to do it once. Try to keep up in a crazy dense lecture or be able to pause and write down important stuff and double speed past the filler?

 

[RNtoMD87]

You only have time to do it once. Try to keep up in a crazy dense lecture or be able to pause and write down important stuff and double speed past the filler?

I've always been a big fan of recording and using shorthand

 

[operaman]

No I'm saying how bad can it be. Most residents I see, especially ENT are on point, this HMS resident was special, and his peers told us so. They voted him "most likely to get someone killed" according to my cousins wife who is also an HMS resident.

I just don't understand why when in over your head, why not ask for help? This attending is a very nice guy. He just gets fed up when patients are about to die. He got called to a code once and the residents said they didn't plan on intubating even though the man wasn't breathing. He said "I don't know why I'm here. I don't want to speak to another f'ing resident tonight." But I mean cmon it's a code where the guy isn't responding, of course he needed to be intubated. You don't need to be a doctor to know that.

Much of this can be culture dependent within a given program; you don’t know how that given attending speaks to residents behind closed doors. Every program has its own culture and part of what residents have to learn is how to navigate these nuances.

Not sure what happened in your story. Seems like there should have been a more senior resident involved as well. Understanding which patients need to go to the unit and being able to clearly articulate their critical care need to the icu fellow or attending is not always an easy task, especially for a chronic vent patient with a poor baseline. You need some icu time and some seasoning as a resident to get comfortable doing that. Nowadays if I’m intervening or checking on a floor patient q1-2h, i very quickly start looking for a unit bed.

All that said, I’m a big believer that when others are suggesting you call a senior or attending, you should probably heed their advice. It’s not something that’s said frequently and easily, and usually means you’re missing something.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Much of this can be culture dependent within a given program; you don’t know how that given attending speaks to residents behind closed doors. Every program has its own culture and part of what residents have to learn is how to navigate these nuances.

Not sure what happened in your story. Seems like there should have been a more senior resident involved as well. Understanding which patients need to go to the unit and being able to clearly articulate their critical care need to the icu fellow or attending is not always an easy task, especially for a chronic vent patient with a poor baseline. You need some icu time and some seasoning as a resident to get comfortable doing that. Nowadays if I’m intervening or checking on a floor patient q1-2h, i very quickly start looking for a unit bed.

All that said, I’m a big believer that when others are suggesting you call a senior or attending, you should probably heed their advice. It’s not something that’s said frequently and easily, and usually means you’re missing something.

Yeah this woman was desatting down to the 70s on 100 fi02 on AC. He was like "I'm not sure I trust that sensor reading for her sp02. Let's get a blood gas. And he did this at least 3 times, while the lady was exhibiting major respiratory failure signs. Hard to arouse, heavy secretions possibly plugged, just looked like a mess, I was a little shocked. But I think this was an isolated case with this certain resident. His name precedes him around the unit among nurses and residents alike.

 

[operaman]

Yeah this woman was desatting down to the 70s on 100 fi02 on AC. He was like "I'm not sure I trust that sensor reading for her sp02. Let's get a blood gas. And he did this at least 3 times, while the lady was exhibiting major respiratory failure signs. Hard to arouse, heavy secretions possibly plugged, just looked like a mess, I was a little shocked. But I think this was an isolated case with this certain resident. His name precedes him around the unit among nurses and residents alike.

Hmmm yeah hopefully people in his program are addressing this with him. There's certainly some pressure as a resident to be able to handle things well, and people that close off and stop communicating tend to do so as a poor coping mechanism for their own shortcomings. If he didn't understand what was happening or what needed to happen therapeutically, he may have been scared to call his senior/attending and be found out. Obviously this coping mechanism backfires brutally on most everyone who uses it.

Ironically, it seems like some of the worst offenders are the most highly pedigreed and look highly accomplished on paper. They could probably get this question right on a test, but struggle in real life. They also seem to derive their identity from appearing like the smartest person in the room, so making a call because they're stuck is especially difficult for them.

 

[TheIllusionist]

Honestly, most of my friends in comp sci, engineering, law, finance, and consulting from decent schools will end up with a higher net worth and seem to be happier than most medicine people I know. I think the comparison is to high levels of other white collar jobs. But people just aren't appreciative of what they have nor are they brave/hardworking enough to quit and make the leap and try the other stuff that would probably make them happier. This and many docs grossly overestimate their abilities. I've met enough firecracker and UFAPed to 255 students, who couldn't solve: if one person can wash a car in 4 hours and the other in 6 hours, how fast could they both wash it together, assuming that their individual efforts would not interfere with each other's. Then the same group would became glassy eyed if you told them that the above is a parallel circuit. They are also the same crowd that says they love politics and a the only issue they know about is gay rights and stay stuff like "it's human rights bro" or maybe they say stuff like "let's just make minimum wage $20." Basically no one has the right to complain as much as some med students do, but it's even funnier, when the ones complaining, are actually in the perfect job for their inborn skillet, one where their robotic work ethic and memory alone can get them decently far, even with a dearth of general problem solving ability.

 

[W19]

Honestly, most of my friends in comp sci, engineering, law, finance, and consulting from decent schools will end up with a higher net worth and seem to be happier than most medicine people I know. I think the comparison is to high levels of other white collar jobs. But people just aren't appreciative of what they have nor are they brave/hardworking enough to quit and make the leap and try the other stuff that would probably make them happier. This and many docs grossly overestimate their abilities. I've met enough firecracker and UFAPed to 255 students, who couldn't solve: if one person can wash a car in 4 hours and the other in 6 hours, how fast could they both wash it together, assuming that their individual efforts would not interfere with each other's. Then the same group would became glassy eyed if you told them that the above is a parallel circuit. They are also the same crowd that says they love politics and a the only issue they know about is gay rights and stay stuff like "it's human rights bro" or maybe they say stuff like "let's just make minimum wage $20." Basically no one has the right to complain as much as some med students do, but it's even funnier, when the ones complaining, are actually in the perfect job for their inborn skillet, one where their robotic work ethic and memory alone can get them decently far, even with a dearth of general problem solving ability.

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?