Doogie Howser--for real?

At my UIC interview, the dean of admissions mentioned during his talk with us that they had an 18 year old med student - so yeah, it's real.

 

There was a guy in my interview group at UAB who was 19. Not quite Doogie Howser, but close. He had done some accelerated high school/college dual credit deal.

Speaking of Doogie Howser, I wish they would rerun that show somewhere. That, and MacGyver. I'd be in middle-school-flashback heaven.

 

MacGuyver's my hero... Not Patty/Selma like obsession, but damn that guy was cool...

We get it once a week (sattelite dish - 300 channels) on reruns.

 

i once met a 19 year old law student at columbia, and she was far and away, the most immature, stupid, obnoxious person i ever met at any school in my life.
i wont get into the details of it, but her visit ended with her being kicked out of my dorm.

-these accelerated programs are the worst things for kids; the people grow up socially very awkward and very very messed up. as if fitting in weren't hard enough, these kids' peers have nothing in common with them. they may get to start life a little earlier, but they lose their youth.

 

What's even worse than the fact that a 17 y.o. doctor has lost his youth, is that there is no way that a 17 y.o. doctor has the mental maturity to interact with seriously ill patients in a comforting and appropriate way. I see mid-20s residents ALL THE TIME who are acting like schmucks . I can't even imagine what a 17-18 y.o. resident would be like. Those poor patients!

 

I've heard that to be licensed to practice medicine in the US, you have to be at least 21 years old.

 

But back to MacGyver...

I went skiing last winter at Big Sky, Montana. The highlight of my trip (aside from awesome skiing and running in to a tree once) was finding a channel that reran MacGyver every night.

Oh man, I need a life.

Kudos on the Patty/Selma reference. I had forgotten about their obsession with Richard Dean Anderson.

 

There are mature and immature people at EVERY age...the kid in the article sounded more mature than many in their mid-20s. A lot of times age has nothing to do with it!

 

My friend's mom dated MacGuyver (Richard Dean Anderson) in highschool.

 

Doogie Howser - I tend to agree with anacapa - age isn't a determining factor in immaturity. I mean, suppose a kid had to deal with a sick sibling all his/her life? Then I could see a 17 year old approaching a situation with far more maturity than your average resident...

MacGuyver - Damn, now my life isn't complete without that channel... Seriously, tho, looking back at some of those shows that I thought were soo cool as a kid now just look stupid. Has anybody watched Alf lately? That's one BAD show...

 

The 19 year old at UAB I mentioned previously seemed pretty mature. I wouldn't have guessed he was 19, anyway. He did seem to be excited by nearly anything, unlike me, the jaded 25 year old.

 

Yeah, I apparently lived for Alf when it was....but I don't really remember. My mom still has my prized Alf shirt. But the show it too much to handle now, kind of like Family Matters and Full House...loved those shows then, can't stand them now.

 

The difference was that Doogie Howser was done with Med school at 16. He was a resident, wasn't he? Can't speed that one up.

 

Hi,

anyone who says young accelerated people shouldn't start med school young, or they won't be mature enough, or lost their youth, or whatever
is being extremely biased and judgemental.
you really can't say one thing about a person because of their age, and making those statement is rather shallow.

I'm not saying people who are younger are fully well developed, but i just think people who make flat out judgements knowing nothing about a person, are well, only applying their (and the societies) steryotypes and making all-encompasing judgemental remarks that are very often untrue, without any solid basis.

I've known well grown adults who can act stupid and immature. I've known young kids who can act professional and proper. How do you know these kids "missed their childhood", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Why is there their the pervasive assumption that this kids are being pushed to meet someone else's expectation?

In the 50's, if a black man was found driving a mercede's, the police may ask for his liscense/registration to prove he owned the car, while a white man wouldn't be questioned. They operated under the assumption assumption that a black man couldn't possibly own a nice car, he must have stolen it. There was a lot of such discrimation 50 yrs ago. but, back then no one would call it discrimination (except the black). Now, we call it discrimination, but then, it was considered fine and natural.

Maybe the socio economic status of african americans have improved since then, but i don't think so. We, as a society have become more aware of the fact that they are african american they can still be succesful nice people.

We have pretty much dispelled the fact that majority of the blacks are poor and usually criminals. you guys haven't dispelled your myths about younger people who are advanced.

the difference between this african american discrimination vs. the steryotypes that people set on younger individual, is that the typical seventeen year old is NOT mature enough to be facing patients. But, very often the ones who are accelerated are usually more mature than their peers.

I'm 17 (well, 18 in a few weeks). and i'm a senior in university. I took my first college class when i was 9. from 9 to 17 i've finished most of my college and high school level work at a junior college and Washington Univ. unlike this boy in the article, i never felt a push from anyone to accelerate. neither my parents nor I had a desire for me to do it quick. Actually, I could take it easier than most college students, because i was several years ahead. but for some reason .... A LOT, and I MEAN ALOT of people assume i must have really pushed hard to finish young.


Choker,
i agree some of them can be very immature, and sorry you had a bad experience with your dorm mate. But, not all young ones are like that.

I feel socially more comfortable with my peers at college than others my age. I took driver's ed at a local high school last summer, and it was strange being around those who were my age, but mostly high school juniors, while i was starting my senior year at univ. Honestly, i felt most of them were really immature compared to what I was used to.
Nowadays, no one can tell I'm young compared to the rest of my peers. About half my friends know i'm younger, and only a couple professors know. but I don't hide it from anyone (spare when you need to sneak yourself into a job you're not allowed to be in until you're 18 )

When i first started college, people could tell, and it was socially sort of strange. But, by my first or second semester of college, people got used to my brother and I (and a few other young kids) around the campus. I did hang out with other kids my age in little league and such.

Interact with people older just trains us to deal with people of different background, and makes us socially STRONGER, not outcasts. I was at a community college, and there were a lot of adults (like beyond college age, in their 30's and 40's) taking classes there. And, I was often a tutour for these guys. Sometimes they knew I was younger, sometimes they didn't, but it didn't bug them at all.

I don't think i've lost my youth in any significant ways. I go out with my friends to parties or for dinner on ski trips, or canoeing or whatever. We tease each other about who has a crush on who (and who has a crush on the supposedly hot EE professor ). I go out to movies and play computer games (kindof outgrown those RPGs now though), and mess around. Granted I've never walked been to a senior prom but, so?
What does it matter if people think i've missed out on stuff if I don't feel i have.
One of my friends (she was a budhist monk, and a pre-med student, and about 30) said it's probably good that I skipped through junior high and high because of all the social pressure their.

I think we probably grow up socially stronger than most of those people.

I agree patients will probably be comfortable with older doctors.

Maturity,
I had a friend, she started at the junior college when she was 14. I guess she's anti thesis to most of the steryotypes out their. Her parents totally wanted her to just stay in high school, didn't get why she wanted to do college early and such (she was in this joint program with HS/college). Her parents were unsupportive of her in many ways, not just schooling, but she had a LOT of determination. Despite the fact that half the time she didn't have a place to stay (she kept getting kicked out of her house...but that's a whole different story), and worked 20 hrs a week along with school, usually taking the bus or train b/c she didn't yet have a lisecne(and missed a final for her job interview). In some ways, I first see here as immature because she skipped class so much and wasn't focused and such, but knowing her, i'm pretty damn amazed, and doubt me or any you else at 20 could do as she did. She was pre med for a while, but is now a graduate english lit student (I think...).

YBee,
Maturity depends on how much life experience you've had. My cousin, all her life, has been mentally ******ed. November last year I was in the hospital for a week, and didn't recover fully for about 6 to 8 mos after. and believe me, it's was the brutualist dose of what medicine is about. but, don't tell me I haven't seen how people suffer because of disease and such. And it affected how i'd talk to the patients in ER and such.

I think i've lectured you all enough. anyway, my point is, there are much more steryotypes than truth out there, and ALOT of people viewpoint is biased, based only on their imagination, and not at all on the stories or facts of younger students. and, most of your reaction have been judgemental and extremly biased (and considered a little rude to me, which provoked me into this LONG post.

I'm not totally like my peers in that i still live with my parents, and still talk to dad for advice more than someone who is 20 or 22 does.
The only think i can say I missed out on was dorm life. but, i think it's been overall a good descision for my parent to come with me to university (i started at a 4 yr univ when i was 15).

Yeah, I will take MCAT. I never seen doogie howsier, but heard about. wish I had seen it. there is "smary guy", but it's kindof a kiddish show though i like it(okay, i think my TV tastes also need to grow to match a 17 yr old, which means give up wonder years and boy meets world and disney channel). yeah, i got several extracurriculars.

 

sh!t that was a long post. and in an attempt to avoid crashing my computer.. i didn't finish it and am going to waste a little more time at SDN

now i'm really going to blow your mind off... read these

<a href="http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/100798/met_2A1geniu.html" target="_blank">http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/100798/met_2A1geniu.html</a>

<a href="http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpid=311&show=archivedetails&ArchiveID=112203&om=1" target="_blank">http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?pnpid=311&show=archivedetails&ArchiveID=112203&om=1</a>

<a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,254786-412,00.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,254786-412,00.shtml</a>

<a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/20000221jessica2.asp" target="_blank">http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/20000221jessica2.asp</a>

<a href="http://server-mac.pas.rochester.edu/yigal/sixyear1.html" target="_blank">http://server-mac.pas.rochester.edu/yigal/sixyear1.html</a>

<a href="http://www.dailyillini.com/oct00/oct18/news/news08.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.dailyillini.com/oct00/oct18/news/news08.shtml</a>

I guess this is proof of how else i waste my time... going online and finding interesting stuff to read.

 

Wow, that was a long post indeed... Anyway, you sound like the kind of responsible person that I would want treating me if I were a patient, so I fully support you! I think this bias towards older applicants is disappointing. There are a lot of young people who are just as capable of becoming great doctors!

Anyway, best of luck!

 

Hi Sonya

I reread my post and I guess I was a bit harsh - didn't leave room for any gray areas at all. I should have said "It's been my experience..." etc.

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings.

 

I apologize to all if this post proves to be an exercise in rhetoric.

Sonya,

While I wish you great luck in your pursuit of medicine, there is a significant flaw in your analogy between prejudice towards African-Americans and the young. For those who are not, can never know what it is to be black, whereas we all know what it is to have been young. Therefore, there is some basis for bias against those who are still young.

While my experience is not too far different from your own, I moved away from home at the age of 16 and, well, all I can say is that I know a whole lot less now than I did then.

Though I don't think age is the single best predictor of medical competence, there are certain areas in which I firmly believe extremely young (I'll even go up to the age of 24 or 25) physicians are not the best/nor qualified for the job. Don't care what anyone says, I don't want to have a conversation about birth control with an 18 yo.

Though I could go on, I won't, and just wish you luck with your MCATs and medical school.

 

The guy who played Doogie Howser? Neil Patrick Harris? Total dingus. I worked with him on a really lousy movie called The Proposition in '97. He's incredibly concieted and a lousy actor to boot! Totally ruined my love for that 80's sitcom!

Hope his "people" don't get wind of this. I'll probably end up getting sued...which, I guess, is good practice for being a doctor...

 

Sonya, while I too am happy to see such academic focus, you still have alot to learn. First, you cannot compare the struggles of accelerated students with the 400+ year struggle of african americans.These two plights are very different in both scope and scale.
In addition, your knowledge of classroom material is in no way an accurate indicator of maturity. While you may have tutored older students, believe me, they know much more about life than you do.
Being an effective physician requires much more than book knowledge. What is most important is an ability to interact with your patients in order to 1)make them feel comfortable and 2)properly assess the problem. That is an art that cannot be taught by any textbook.
Maturity is defined by the extent of one's life experiences, not credit hours. And that you will not gain by the time you are 20 years old. I am not being condensending, because believe me, you sound alot like I used to. However, what you will find as you get older is that at this age, you were not as mature as you thought.

 

Note: You shouldn't start med school before you sprout a couple of pubes, ok?

 

-these accelerated programs are the worst things for kids; the people grow up socially very awkward and very very messed up. as if fitting in weren't hard enough, these kids' peers have nothing in common with them. they may get to start life a little earlier, but they lose their youth.

Well let us not forget that for people on a mission there is no such thing as getting started too early. Plus look at the fact that in our parents day (mine at least) you were no longer a kid at 18 you were expected to be out in the world doing "your thing" It's only our generaion (Gen X, I'm 32) and younger that prolongs youth. In some cultures you're an adult at much younger ages right?


So it just depends on how you look at it, just because this young lady didn't adjust well doesn't mean it is a bad thing overall.

 

Next semester at UMDNJ-SOM (osteopathic) there are two 14 year old twins starting as freshman. I have no clue how they pulled that one off!!

 

A couple years ago in the Seattle Times, I read about a ten year old at UC Davis. Towards the end of the article they talked about how precocious secondary and post-secondary education ran in the family b/c his sister was twelve and was starting med school. I can try and find something about it if I can finish my X-mas shopping. I should really get something for my parents. They showed a pic of the ten year old and he looked no younger than any other undergrad. In fact, he looked more stressed out than his classmates, whom none of them knew he was any younger than they were. Why rob a child of the freedom of adolescence?

 

I'm not sure if they were fourteen year old twins at UMDNJ-SOM, but...

Back in October, I got into school a bit early to do a bit of cramming before our 3 exams that day. I noticed three fairly young-looking people in suits and went over to say hello. They said that they were here to interview for the med school, and I wished them luck and wandered off to study.

A bit later, we were told that the interviewees were all between the ages of 14 and 16, that none of them had a GPA of less than 3.8 or an MCAT until 34, and that the administration was Very Excited about interviewing them. (The numbers may be slightly off, but I'm moderately sure of them.) I suppose that two of them might have been twins... I don't know. They _did_ all wear the same tie, though- red, white, and blue stripes. Very snazzy.

They seemed quite serious and mature... but I only spent about two minutes with them, so take that for what it's worth.

Bests,
Paige (who started med school at 21, but turned 22 a few months after... fairly standard, I'm afraid )

Cornell University, Class of 2000
UMDNJ-SOM, Class of 2004

 

I apologize for all caps. It's not meant to be flaming, just emphasis. This is supposed to be a lively debate.
Also, none of my questions are sarcastic or for driving points... if anyone wants to philosiphise (bad spelling, i know) or discuss answers, i am very curious!

Lizard king....

I'm not going to continue to debate and argue with you if you are simply going to be extremely closed minded, stating your point, and not bothering to read what I write. You only seem read enough to find points to knock it down, and don't concede to the fact that there is any credibility to what I'm saying.

Instead, you are going to find any half baked excuses to support your view. your points have little basis. provide me statistics, stories, or any reason to believe your viewpoints have any credibility.

I've seen my story, and those of many of my friends. I've guided many other homeschooling families and others at the youth/high school programs at my old community college.

I'm only saying people should be open minded. THAT'S ALL. I'm saying, people should not throw tons of steryotypes on someone just because they are young and smart WHEN THEY NO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT THE PERSON.

granted, in medschool admissions/jobs/etc, they have a limit to what they can ask in the personal essay, etc and they need to judge you as a person. Thus, everything counts, and there are always going to be steryotypes.

But I am much more talking about PERSONAL interaction with people you meet on campus, internet, wherever. In personal interaction, there shouldn't be this a large set of steroytypes.

My brother (maybe around 12 or 13 then) met and becomes aquantinces with this guy and a social indian community dance. A few days later, he meets him on the college campus. The guy is totally shocked my brother is in college when he's barely a teenager and is like "what are you doing here?? you're gonna go brain-damaged!!" yeah, he used words to those effect.

Yes, age brings maturity. But, it is not pure age that brings the maturity as much as what I'd call "life experiences" (you know what i mean, tough situations, unusual experiences, poverty, etc, etc). But if people based maturity more on that than age, they would be making a more valid judgement. I told you some example of my friends story... and the point of that was that sometimes people can be quite young yet faced a lot of "experiences" in life than older people (if you don't get what I'm talking about read "Small Victories" or "And Still We Rise").

Whether you realize it or not, lizard king (and some others), you guys are making a lot of assumptions about me or people in my situation w.r.t. to age and academic achiements.

THIS IS WHAT REALLY GETS TO ME. PEOPLE DO NOT EVEN REALIZE THEY ARE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS AND THINK IT IS ABSOLUTELY NATURAL THAT SOME STUFF COME AS A CONSEQUENCE OF BEING YOUNG AND SMART. IN FACT THE REALITY FOR MANY OF US IS QUITE THE OPPOSITE!

Okay... at few things that have come up here (and they are very typical).


* Being young means and academically advanced means our parents pushed us through it. That it wasn't our choice. Would someone tell me why this is a pervasive assumption?

* Being young means we were deprived our our "childhood" or "adolesence". What exactly were we deprived of? Is it exactly something totally good? I have on the whole enjoyed my life and education, just as do others my age. granted academically were at a different level, and most of my friends are older than me. But what was I deprived of? and why does being deprived of this have a negative connotation in the society?


* Being young means that we rushed through it.
This is a STERYOTYPE! Steryotype as in NOT true!
There was never any rush for me to finish my schooling. To the contrary, my dad all told me to take it easy. I could take whatever classes interested me and didn't have to overload myself above what i could handle. I just started early.
None the less, this "steryotype" does hold true for many others. I don't see why they want to push themselves or what the rush is. But for me, there was quite the opposite of a rush.


For the rest of you,

I know that analogy with african americans isn't very strong. It wasn't really well thought out our anything, and probably there are many flaws. It just came to my head at the time I wrote that post.

 

ussdfiant,
My frined is gonna be starting at UMDNJ-SOM next year and Dean Wallace told her about the 14 year old twins--weird, huh?

 

I'm almost scared to agree with many of the folks on here for fear of having a novel written again that analyzed every micro-point of mine. How about you just cool out? As you say, people should read each other's opinions, NOT cram them down each other's throats. Chill....--Trek


"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" --Twain

 

wow. I think Trek's right. But let me say this, I am a current applicant at 19, and though one interviewer raised doubts over my maturity, others (4 so far) didn't seem to be bothered by it. There's no one way to determine how mature one is to behave as a physician etc.....i guess committees have to rely on their instincts and that of the interviewer(s).
I didn't read 90% of the thesis Sonya wrote, so this post may seem a bit awkward. Anyway, my $0.01.

 

When I was 16 I was mature. When I turned 25 I was definitely mature. When I was 30 I had no doubt I was mature. When I became 35 I was even more mature! Now I am 40 and I think I finally have this mature thing down pat!

Sonya, I have no doubt that you are probably more mature then others your age. Just for a kick though......keep a copy of your responses to these posts....put it away somewhere. Twenty years from now take it out and read it. I have a feeling you might get a little chuckle out of reading them.

Best of luck to you.

 

I'm with you marleybfour. One of the great things about being older is that although we missed the hip 60's, we remember the 70's and lived through the big 80's - as adults. Not a particularly envious feat, however, the 80's nostalgia is worth it!

 

Sonya, you have TOO much time on your hands. Your posts are RIDICULOUSLY longwinded. chillzit out!!

I think we get the picture by now. but those of us who don't, just never will..or will, but after 100 pages of writing. ...just my advice and friendly prediction .

 

Ok, so to add to this whole mess...i got something to say. I **believe** that students in India (plus some countries in the middle east) actually get to apply and get into med school at 18...become docs at 22...etc etc. I think this age is an approximate, I want to say 16 but I have a feel that 18 is the right age. Somebody could look into this for me.

I have tons of friends in India, of my age, who are already doctors now. Just wanted to mention that perhaps, age is/is not a relevant thing depending on the society you are living in, and the social responsibilities inherent to it. I know boys in India that take care of their families at 19...yes, they are the main bread winner, with "executive level" jobs etc. Does that mean that **all** of them are like baby geniuses? I think not! If I was brought up there, I would be having the same responsibilities as them and doing what they do, and I consider myself only average. Hence, age/maturity is something dependant on the society you are living in. And in America, where so many opportunities galore, we shouldn't be surprised to see others taking advantage of it.

Anyway, just wanted to mentioned that.
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