Doom and Gloom

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mrmandrake

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There has always been a bunch of doom and gloom talk in radiology and if you frequent Auntminnie, you know what I'm talking about. There are tons of trolls over there, but I also see posts from long time members (1000+ posts) and it seems like these radiologists are burning out. Around my department, it seems like some of the radiologists are tired all the time. The trend seems to be pushing for faster and faster reads and higher volumes.

Now I was never afraid of hard work (I worked a full time job in college as a full time student) and I'm still going to be applying to rads come fall, but it got me thinking. Are any of you guys worried about being pushed to become a reading robot? What have you seen in your department?

I'm hoping I can find a somewhat humane job when I'm done where I can take lunch breaks and get up every once in awhile to stretch. It seems like the VA would be a good gig. Maybe there are some awesome private practice jobs out there that pay less in exchange for more time off. I can't see myself in academics because I don't like to teach.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. I guess I just wanted to hear what you guys thought about burnout and how to keep sane in radiology when we're getting pushed to read more and faster. How are you going to ensure that you don't burnout in the future?
 
Its AM being AM. On one hand, they complain that these dinosaurs won't retire and give up their jobs, and on the other they complain that they are super burned out.

Its not peachy, but its not gloomy. The common denominator like with every field is that your work is titratable to your desired income.
 
Forget about what you see at your academic center during radiology rotation.

If you care about having a dedicated lunch time or some breaks radiology is not for you.
As I mentioned before, this is no way a life style specialty. The workload of radilogy is under-rated. It is not neurosurgery or cardiology, but it is also not Dermatology, radiation onc, many surgical sub-specialties or GI.
Even as a resident I have only time to grab lunch and eat during conference. The last time I had lunch with other residents in the hospital was my internship.
On the other hand, it is not only radiology people who are exhausted. Almost every doctor I see these days are tired.
Just know what you are doing to your life. I rank radiology below average to tough among medical specialties regarding lifestyle and hours. At least 60% of fields provide better hours and life-style. I know medical students do not believe me, because to them radiology is a 2 week rotation that they appear 10 am and disappear 2 pm.

Good Luck
 
I think medicine as a whole is the wrong specialty for you, not just radiology if those are your true feelings.
 
I think medicine as a whole is the wrong specialty for you, not just radiology if those are your true feelings.

I don't get this - the OP basically said he is willing to give up some income potential in order to be able to get out at reasonable time (be it 5 PM or 7 PM, depending on personal level), and take few minutes of lunch break at work. This is actually possible with almost all specialties of medicine, at least after residency. Why are you saying this?
 
I don't get this - the OP basically said he is willing to give up some income potential in order to be able to get out at reasonable time (be it 5 PM or 7 PM, depending on personal level), and take few minutes of lunch break at work. This is actually possible with almost all specialties of medicine, at least after residency. Why are you saying this?

Worrying about how much time off you will have before your first day of work is concerning.
 
DrBowtie: thanks for the feedback. I'm hoping I can titrate my work down to a reasonable level

shark2000: thanks for your insight. I do believe you because I've been hanging around the department and I do see how hard radiologists work.

PokerDoc: I disagree with your assessment of me and I'm not going to defend myself for wanting reasonable hours and a lunch break.
 
There has always been a bunch of doom and gloom talk in radiology and if you frequent Auntminnie, you know what I'm talking about. There are tons of trolls over there, but I also see posts from long time members (1000+ posts) and it seems like these radiologists are burning out. Around my department, it seems like some of the radiologists are tired all the time. The trend seems to be pushing for faster and faster reads and higher volumes.

Now I was never afraid of hard work (I worked a full time job in college as a full time student) and I'm still going to be applying to rads come fall, but it got me thinking. Are any of you guys worried about being pushed to become a reading robot? What have you seen in your department?

I'm hoping I can find a somewhat humane job when I'm done where I can take lunch breaks and get up every once in awhile to stretch. It seems like the VA would be a good gig. Maybe there are some awesome private practice jobs out there that pay less in exchange for more time off. I can't see myself in academics because I don't like to teach.

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is. I guess I just wanted to hear what you guys thought about burnout and how to keep sane in radiology when we're getting pushed to read more and faster. How are you going to ensure that you don't burnout in the future?

i'm a rads resident and have same feelings... and hopes for the future. don't let the others get you down. radiology is tough- tougher than i thought. but in a lot of ways, residency is as hard as you make it- and is hard as you let others make it for you. In other words, if you go to a program with a bunch of gunners (most of the people in radiology), you may feel like you have to work at least as hard as them just to skate by. Most of the people matched in rads because they work hard.... then there are those who never really had to work hard to match. Residency is where you start to get bogged down because you are no longer being judged solely on test-taking abilities- they are going to judge you on how "hard" you work or how "hard" you appear to work. I don't have any answers for you... but youre not alone! There are other non-gunnners out there.
 
It is a gross stretch to say medicine is not for you.

Basically every specialty that is covering ER and has common emergencies is not lifestyle. Because it needs 24/7 coverage, you can not leave the task for one hour later and you can not leave at 5 pm when there are 10 trauma CTs on the list.

If you want to have lifestyle and an 8-5 job with dedicated lunch time go for outpatient specialties or the ones with few emergencies. Family Medicine, Peds outpatient, Derm, Rad Onc, ophtho, ENT, Ortho, plastics, Urology and even GI. These are the specialties that do not have a whole lot emergencies and you will be able to find an 8-5 job with 1 hour lunch time.
Look at outpatient DERm or GI.
Radiology is a very hospital based specialty and need 24/7 coverage. It means you have to work lunch time, you have to work 11pm or 4 am.
In true pp you never ever find a DERM doc or Urologist or Ophtho in ER at 11pm. These , specialties have their own rare emergencies, but one hospital in the city is enough to cover most of them or the emergencies can be covered by others . For example steven johnson is managed by ER or even a knee dislocation are relocated in many places by ER doctors.

Your other option is working in a big academic center with fellows and residents. Then even as a trauma surgeon , you can go to the spa in the middle of the day and getting massage while your residents and fellows are stabilizing the most severe trauma case with BP of 50/p.
 
The problem with you is that you sound like you're assessing your options solely based on your lunch break and working hours. I just see you as being an unhappy physician if those are the things that you are weighing heavily.

You need to find the field you are most passionate about and do it regardless of the hours or 'lunch break' you get. Otherwise, you will not be happy, even if you do get to have a long lunch. Medicine is tough enough as it is, if you don't absolutely love the specialty you chose, you're really going to be miserable. If you are truly passionate about radiology, you will find a way to make it work for you individually, and maybe eating lunch in front of a computer doesn't bother you as much because damn, you just love waking up every morning because you love your job. That is why I said what I did. I don't think these things should be as important to you as you are making them sound. Now I know you are considering other factors as well, but I just want to be sure youre not going to pass up the job you enjoy the most because the lunch break is less.. i mean thats just stupid. That's all.. don't take what I said as an attack on your personality.
 
Wouldn't you be able to set boundary on shifts though? For instance, I know several private practice radiologists who basically read all films between 7 AM - 4 PM (or 8 - 5, etc). While it's true you won't have much of a break in between, I would think that you can still make a reasonable balance?
 
The problem with you is that you sound like you're assessing your options solely based on your lunch break and working hours. I just see you as being an unhappy physician if those are the things that you are weighing heavily.

You need to find the field you are most passionate about and do it regardless of the hours or 'lunch break' you get. Otherwise, you will not be happy, even if you do get to have a long lunch. Medicine is tough enough as it is, if you don't absolutely love the specialty you chose, you're really going to be miserable. If you are truly passionate about radiology, you will find a way to make it work for you individually, and maybe eating lunch in front of a computer doesn't bother you as much because damn, you just love waking up every morning because you love your job. That is why I said what I did. I don't think these things should be as important to you as you are making them sound. Now I know you are considering other factors as well, but I just want to be sure youre not going to pass up the job you enjoy the most because the lunch break is less.. i mean thats just stupid. That's all.. don't take what I said as an attack on your personality.

Could you please tell me how can an MS4 know he LOVES radiology or not?
These are some idealistic comments by your consultants in the medical school which do not have any relation to the truth.

There is nothing such as LOVE or PASSION for something. It is a job at the end of the day. You should not hate it.
Best challenging part of every specialty become mundane after a while. On the other hand the bad parts will become worse. As many times mentioned the good parts become routine and the bad parts become a pain in the neck.
My suggestion: Choose something that you do not hate. More important choose something that you can get along with the worst parts in the long run. It may seem ironic, but choose your specialty based on the bad/worse parts of it and not on the basis of the best parts.

I see surgeons with all their arrogance and all their great passion for surgery hating their job, not because they dislike surgery. Because after a while the Whipple procedure becomes a routine and nothing exciting, but getting paged at 2 a.m. to deal with crazy people becomes more and more pain in the neck esp when you get older.

Having priorities in life and trying to make the balance between them is very wise. The happiest people are not those who love their job or who are very successful in their job. The happiest people are those with a balance between many things in life including having enough time to spend with family and having time for a good lunch.
I do not say it is good or bad. But my impression is you will be happier in life-style specialties.
Medical students are extremely over-whelmed and are thinking about an ideal world. Don't listen to what people say.
There is nothing wrong with respecting your lifestyle. Just take a look at level of satisfaction of doctors. Those with best hours and less after-hours/nights have higher level of satisfaction (i.e. DERM) and not those with the most complicated procedures or super super hectic life (like neurosurgery).
 
The problem with you is that you sound like you're assessing your options solely based on your lunch break and working hours. I just see you as being an unhappy physician if those are the things that you are weighing heavily.

You need to find the field you are most passionate about and do it regardless of the hours or 'lunch break' you get. Otherwise, you will not be happy, even if you do get to have a long lunch. Medicine is tough enough as it is, if you don't absolutely love the specialty you chose, you're really going to be miserable. If you are truly passionate about radiology, you will find a way to make it work for you individually, and maybe eating lunch in front of a computer doesn't bother you as much because damn, you just love waking up every morning because you love your job. That is why I said what I did. I don't think these things should be as important to you as you are making them sound. Now I know you are considering other factors as well, but I just want to be sure youre not going to pass up the job you enjoy the most because the lunch break is less.. i mean thats just stupid. That's all.. don't take what I said as an attack on your personality.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to "work to live" rather than "living to work." No matter how much I loved general surgery, there was no way I was entering a field that was going to rob me of the ability to see my wife (and possibly future children) for the majority of 7 years. Some people need an ideal job to make them happy. Many more of us just want to spend time with our families and have a stable job to support it without getting in the way.

To the OP, worry not my friend. The doom and gloomers are all people who are used to making half a million for sitting on their ass all day; now they actually have to WORK for a living. The worst anecdotal "hours" you still hear are 60 hour weeks with call one weekend a month (for diagnostic--interventional can get longer).
 
The problem with you is that you sound like you're assessing your options solely based on your lunch break and working hours. I just see you as being an unhappy physician if those are the things that you are weighing heavily.

You need to find the field you are most passionate about and do it regardless of the hours or 'lunch break' you get. Otherwise, you will not be happy, even if you do get to have a long lunch. Medicine is tough enough as it is, if you don't absolutely love the specialty you chose, you're really going to be miserable. If you are truly passionate about radiology, you will find a way to make it work for you individually, and maybe eating lunch in front of a computer doesn't bother you as much because damn, you just love waking up every morning because you love your job. That is why I said what I did. I don't think these things should be as important to you as you are making them sound. Now I know you are considering other factors as well, but I just want to be sure youre not going to pass up the job you enjoy the most because the lunch break is less.. i mean thats just stupid. That's all.. don't take what I said as an attack on your personality.

There are some people in this world that love their jobs and "live to work." They might be extremely successful (in work, perhaps not family life--think Buffett). Maybe that is the type of person you aspire to be (but probably not since you're wasting your time on studentdoctor instead of learning medicine/radiology). They are definitely in the minority.

Most people, like others have posted, just want a reasonable job with reasonable hours which allows them to do the things they enjoy doing, like seeing their family, traveling, etc.

I think the OP wanted to hear from some practicing radiologists about their practices, not get a lecture on life from a non-radiologist.
 
One of my favorite phenomena of message boards is when someone takes a post or a handful of posts from a person and extrapolates ridiculous conclusions. To wit, if you innocuously inquire about free time during a radiology career, then not only are you unfit for radiology, but medicine as a whole. On a personal note, I'd like to add that you also shouldn't have kids, because you are clearly a selfish person. Propogating your genetic material could have a serious negative impact on the entire gene pool.
 
Doom and gloom expert interview!:

Planned Medicare Cuts in Imaging: An Expert Interview: Imaging Growth


Feds Seek $820M in Imaging Cuts: Will Access Suffer?

Editor's Note

The Obama Administration's proposed budget for Medicare contains 2 provisions that could dramatically restrict the provision of high-end imaging tests to Medicare patients. One would increase to 95% the assumed utilization rate for advanced diagnostic equipment, such as magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), computed tomography (CT), and nuclear medicine, which would cut payments for these advanced imaging procedures by an estimated $820 million over 10 years. The other would require physicians to obtain authorization before ordering advanced imaging tests. This program would be modeled after programs that private insurers have increasingly plugged into their plans in recent years.
We asked David Levin, MD, the Emeritus Professor and Chairman of the Department of Radiology at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital in Philadelphia, to comment on these proposals. Since his retirement as Chair at Jefferson, Dr. Levin has conducted extensive research into Medicare payments for imaging procedures. He also has experience working as a consultant for HealthHelp, one of the radiology business management (RBM) companies that could be involved in the prior authorization program.
Medscape: President Obama's budget proposes an $820 million cut over the next 10 years in Medicare spending for high-end imaging. These procedures are not identified in the budget document, but generally they're considered to be CT, MRI, and nuclear medicine. You've done a lot of research about radiology procedures and Medicare. Given what is being spent by Medicare on radiology, what effect do you believe this will have on the specialty?
Dr. Levin: It's certainly going to have an impact on radiologists' incomes, there's no doubt about that. Whether it's going to affect access to radiology or the availability of radiology facilities is a little harder to predict. An article was just published in the Journal of the American College of Radiology [JACR] showing that until now the 2005 Deficit Reduction Act [DRA], which everybody was concerned about, didn't really impact CT and MRI very much, but there has been a drop in the availability of nuclear medicine. The question is whether that is due to a decrease in access or to other factors.
759473-figure.jpg
David C. Levin, MD
In terms of access, I think we're on the edge of the cliff right now and nobody knows whether we're going to stay on top or fall over. My hunch is that radiologists are going to suck it up and keep fulfilling their professional obligations, but it's certainly going to dampen the whole milieu of the speciality. It's going to dampen research, it's going to dampen the job market, and it's going to dampen acquisition of new and updated equipment. And it could well dampen access.
I don't like the whole situation, but I think the vast majority of people in radiology are dedicated, want to do a good job, and want to take care of their patients and will continue to do that. They might have to work longer hours, and they will have to put up with lower incomes, but hopefully they're going to continue to fulfill these professional obligations.
Procedures in Jeopardy?

Medscape: Are there any procedures that you think are at particular risk right now?
Dr. Levin: I think PET [positron emission tomography] scanning is at risk, and I think CT is partially at risk. As of this year they're bundling CT of the abdomen and pelvis, and that's certainly going to push down reimbursements for CT. Another area that I think is at risk is coronary CT angiography [CTA], which, surprisingly, has not been growing at all. That was a procedure that a lot of people were very interested in 5-7 years ago, and there were a lot of predictions about how the use of this procedure was going to skyrocket and how it was going to improve the diagnosis of coronary artery disease. That has not happened at all. In fact, the use of coronary CTA has gone down.
It's a fairly labor-intensive procedure, and the reimbursements are low. Reimbursements are higher for a cardiac nuclear scan, and that's much less labor-intensive than coronary CTA. I think that shows how low reimbursements have affected the use of a very good procedure that should be much more widely used.
Nuclear Cardiology

Medscape: Let's look at nuclear scans in particular, because I know you mentioned them in the article that you referenced from JACR. They are more expensive. Could this push down the use of nuclear procedures, and could CTA become more attractive in that context?
Dr. Levin: I can't really answer that, but I do know that nuclear cardiology took a big hit in 2010 when Medicare bundled 3 scan codes into 1. There was a substantial drop-off in the number of cardiac nuclear scans, but because of the bundling it's not clear that patient volume actually fell.
There's certainly going to be a drop-off in private-office nuclear scans done by cardiologists and a corresponding increase in hospital-based cardiac nuclear scans, because a lot of cardiologists are moving their practices into hospitals. As for cardiac CTA, it's too early to tell. I think what's probably going to happen is that volumes will begin to rise. A study just coming out now in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology shows that it is substantially better than nuclear scans in detecting coronary artery disease.
Bundling of Codes

Medscape: Many specialties rely on imaging. Will there be corollary effects on cardiology, orthopaedics, neurology, oncology, emergency medicine, and others? Can you discuss any of these in any detail?
Dr. Levin: Like we were just saying, cardiology has been hit very hard. The cardiologists took a hit twice, actually. In 2009 they took a hit in echocardiography because there was a bundling of major codes. Then in 2010 there was bundling of the codes in cardiac nuclear scanning.
In radiology, we saw the first sign of it in 2010 with the bundling of the CT abdomen and pelvis codes. Now we're looking at an increase in the utilization factor, which will cut practice-expense reimbursement. I think it's inevitable that unless somebody changes their mind on this, radiology is going to be hit as well. The Feds went after cardiology first, and now they're going after radiology.
The question now is how this is going to impact these other specialties. I'm concerned that if access to MRI and CT done by radiologists is lost', it's going to prompt these other specialists to try to get into the field themselves and start putting in their own MRI and CT units. To a large extent, it's already happening. A lot of orthopaedic surgeons have put in their own MRI units. A lot of neurologists have put in their own MRI and CT units. Oncologists are putting in CT scanners. I'm concerned that if radiologists drop out of the picture and if there is a decrease in access to this high-end imaging through radiologists, it's going to encourage some of these other people to get into the field, even though they don't have proper training.
The cuts could reduce their profitability, but they can always increase their volume by self-referring. Radiologists can't do that.

Prior Authorization

Medscape: In another part of the budget there is a requirement for prior authorization of advanced imaging procedures. You've seen how prior authorization worked in the commercial market. What could it mean in the Medicare market? Should we expect to see a sharp drop in imaging volumes as a result of this?
Dr. Levin: If Medicare institutes prior authorization, you're going to see perhaps a small and somewhat progressive drop, but not a sharp drop in imaging volumes. The reason I say that is because the sharp drop has already occurred. Medicare reimbursements for imaging have dropped substantially since 2006 as a result of a number of factors. Figuring it out will be complicated because part of the declines will reflect code bundling.
Here I need to disclose that I'm a consultant for one of the RBM companies, HealthHelp.
Ideally, there would be a way to reduce the hassle that the ordering physicians have to go through. There's been a lot of talk about computerized decision support, and I think it has a real role to play. I could foresee the RBMs having good decision support systems on their front ends. For example, if an ordering physician wants to get an MRI or a CT or a PET scan, he or she would initially go through a computerized decision support system to seek approval. If the request didn't pass the decision support system criteria, it would get sent to a radiologist who would do a peer-to-peer phone call for consultation. I think a combination of decision support and prior authorization is probably the best way to go.
Also, if the Administration does implement prior authorization they ought to do a pilot first. I think it would be a mistake to try to bring all 45 million Medicare patients into prior authorization in 1 fell swoop. We ought to do a small pilot first and see how it works and what the effects of it are. It could be confined to a particular RBM or geographic area, but there should be a test.
What Are the Tradeoffs?

Medscape: Generally, when we're looking at cuts in imaging expenditures and enactment of prior authorization programs, we're looking at tradeoffs. What tradeoffs do you see if both of these elements are extended in Medicare?
Dr. Levin: The tradeoff is basically the availability of needed imaging. If you cut reimbursements for imaging by increasing the utilization factor and then you institute a prior authorization program, both of these things are most likely going to lead to some degree of reduction in the utilization of imaging. The tradeoff is going to be, well, how far do you go? If you go too far then you're depriving patients of necessary care. I think that's the big tradeoff -- you don't want to deprive patients of necessary care.
Here in our department, I do some cardiac imaging, and the major payer in Philadelphia uses one of the RBMs. Since I'm involved with coronary CTA, I can tell you that we see denials all the time. Patients are put on the schedule and then they drop off the schedule because the procedure has been denied. I think in a lot of instances those patients needed those coronary CTAs, but they're being denied so they don't get it. The same thing could happen in the Medicare program. It depends on how they institute prior authorization. I think if they institute it in a way that there is no actual denial of care and where you have knowledgeable people fielding the approval calls, then it could work. It could work in a way that would limit unnecessary imaging but wouldn't go over the line and start limiting the use of needed studies.


Imaging Growth

Medscape: Let's talk about tradeoffs in terms of the $820 million cutback in the imaging expenditures from the higher utilization rate.
Dr. Levin: That's when it gets back to what we were talking about before. It's hard to predict what's going to happen. You could have radiologists bailing out of their office practices or have independent diagnostic testing facilities closing down, and that would limit access.
''Like I said before, radiologists are for the most part hard-working, honorable people who I think want to provide good care to patients. I think that they may just say, "Look, we'll have to swallow this," but I don't know. I could be wrong.
Medscape: There was a big ramp-up in advanced imaging volume during the first half of the past decade, but there's some evidence to suggest that the growth in advanced imaging slowed and has perhaps leveled off. What does your research tell you?
Dr. Levin: There's absolutely no question that the growth in advanced imaging has leveled off and is even starting to go down. It reached a peak in 2006, and it's been going down ever since. If you look at the Medicare part B database, which is what we do in our research group here, there's no question that imaging utilization has gone down and continues to do so. Not only that, but the money that the Medicare program pays for imaging has also gone down and continues to go down.
Reimbursements took a big hit in 2007 following the DRA, and even since then they've continued to go on down. However you look at it -- whether you want to look at growth in volume or growth in spending -- they are both down. That's why I'm not so sure that the administration really needs to do what they're doing here in terms of increasing the equipment utilization factor. They've already achieved a major goal.
We're still researching this and I don't have the exact figures yet, but my hunch is that when we get to look at the details of the data, we're going to see that since 2006, Medicare Part B reimbursements for noninvasive diagnostic imaging have dropped somewhere in the vicinity of 15%-20%, maybe even a little more.
Other Cost-Control Strategies

Medscape: Finally, are there better imaging cost-control strategies than the ones the Obama Administration has put in its budget?
Dr. Levin: There are 2 things that they should do that they haven't done that trouble me. First, they have not done anything meaningful about malpractice concerns among physicians. I'm absolutely convinced that a significant amount of the utilization of imaging today is because of concerns about malpractice. I think the Democratic Party is too closely allied to the trial lawyers and that has prevented the Democrats and the Obama Administration from attempting any meaningful tort reform. If they put in strict limits on non-economic damages the way some states have already, I think you'd see a significant drop in imaging utilization.
The second issue is self-referral. What growth is still occurring in imaging is largely occurring among nonradiologists. You see cardiologists and urologists putting in CT scanners, orthopaedic surgeons putting in MRIs, and neurologists putting in both CTs and MRIs. If they did something with real teeth in it, like repealing the in-office ancillary services exception to the Stark law, you could see a real impact, a significant drop in utilization because self-referral would be greatly restricted. Those are the 2 things that the government needs to do. What little remaining fat there is in imaging is in those 2 major areas.
-Medscape Radiology
 
^ I just read that yesterday. The thing is this. $820 mil over 10 years is nothing when the federal budget needs to cut about a couple hundred billion per year from Medicare/Medicaid to become sustainable. This is why I'm ultimately bearish on all of medicine. When such a small cut would bring about such big pain for physicians of a certain specialty, what does it look like when massive cuts have to be enacted across the board? Specialties that are smug about their position now are really going to get a smack across the face.
 
I know it can be extremely hard work with ungodly amounts of studies to read and ever growing lists. I've seen it plenty and it is destined to increase in frequency, but there still are ebbs and flows to days/weeks depending on where you end up practicing. I've seen days where many radiologists grab a granola bar and head back to work, but also days where they go out and have lunch with their spouse and then go home early. Those days are sparse, but they occur.

I have always argued that radiology isn't the lifestyle specialty people claim it to be. That being said, if the group you join after residency decides to hire/pay for some kind of night coverage, a full night's sleep and moderately controlled hours are still within reason. Yes, it is a job at the end of the day but one can use words like "passion" and "love" to describe their jobs. After 40 years in his career and countless miserable days at work, my dad still says he loves what he does and doesn't regret it because, in his words, he "gets paid to find Waldo, do puzzles and play with fun toys."
 
^ I just read that yesterday. The thing is this. $820 mil over 10 years is nothing when the federal budget needs to cut about a couple hundred billion per year from Medicare/Medicaid to become sustainable. This is why I'm ultimately bearish on all of medicine.

Well almost everyone should be bearish on medicine; it only makes sense to be bullish for the innovative, well-differentiated fields. I agree about the $820 M figure being inconsequential, but feel that it is probably wrong. Assuming a near 100% utilization rate has profound consequences on the imaging market by completely changing the equipment amortization. This creates a huge barrier to entry for new radiologists...I guess they can still own stock of existing imaging equipment, but buying your own equipment will have a ridiculously long amortization...too long to justify the decision. I.e., for all practical purposes, new radiologists will no longer be able to buy their own imaging equipment.

The only "game-changer" would be a new or hybrid modality where you can restart the whole process...meaning start at very low utilization rates, which would dramatically increase reimbursements and incentivize the purchase of imaging equipment.
 
Why do we assume that prices will fall in order to treat more people?

What if less people were able to be treated because prices continued to rise and compensation maintained?

IMO - it's okay if alot of people cannot afford the latest and greatest health care. That's the realality that most the world faces. Just because you are born in a 1st world country doesnt entitle you to health care @ pennies on the dollar.

If someone is older and sick and is sitting on a home or savings why shouldnt those things be used to pay for their medical bills? They had their whole life to save up for this event. Sure medicare can help supplement the cost but that doesnt cover the whole bill. If it is not worth it to them they can forego getting care. Likewise, If someone is of working age and doesnt get insurance they took that risk. Now they will have to work long and hard to pay off their medical bills or they can also not get the care. I think the entitlement is the thing that needs to be addressed.
 
Entitlement is being addressed. It's just easier to address the doctors who feel entitled to more money than the millions of americans who feel entitled to health care.
 
My main objection is not budget cut.
But there are two main problems:

1- Is the money saved by cutting the budget, going to be used in something useful? Or is it going to the CEOs and managers?
2- According to numbers only 7% of health care costs are MD salaries. Half of them are specialists. If you cut the specialists salaries by half at most you can save 2%. It mean you will decrease the costs for 2 %.
3- Do not compare US to other countries. Here, we spend more on healthcare. BUT we also spend more on many other things. If you want to make a balanced society, you have to also cut many other expenses.
Just FYI, the expenditure of fuel in US is near 3-4 times of any other developed country per capita. Why nobody wants to save money by cutting the energy expenditure?
 
Why do we assume that prices will fall in order to treat more people?

You seem to be asking a broader question here, but as far as imaging is concerned, prices fall because the assumed utilization rate (AUR) goes up. It's basically supply and demand economics applied to medicare reimburesements for imaging. This is not a problem if the AUR is appropriate. The problem is that a 95% AUR is, in many cases, too high, particularly in the rural areas. This will create a forest fire kind of effect and all but the most used equipment will get burned. Paradoxically, in an effort to decrease spending to provide more coverage, there will be a lack of access to imaging in certain areas as a result.

What if less people were able to be treated because prices continued to rise and compensation maintained?

IMO - it's okay if alot of people cannot afford the latest and greatest health care. That's the realality that most the world faces. Just because you are born in a 1st world country doesnt entitle you to health care @ pennies on the dollar.

The problem is that this is not a morally or politically defensible position. You also have to understand that, because of poor planning, medicare has inadvertently become a giant ponzi scheme in that those currently making payments are bankrolling the healthcare of the current medicare subscribers. Medicare really was supposed to provide healthcare for the elderly so it is arguable that there is not really a false sense of entitlement...just very poor financial planning.
 
My main objection is not budget cut.
But there are two main problems:

1- Is the money saved by cutting the budget, going to be used in something useful? Or is it going to the CEOs and managers?
2- According to numbers only 7% of health care costs are MD salaries. Half of them are specialists. If you cut the specialists salaries by half at most you can save 2%. It mean you will decrease the costs for 2 %.
3- Do not compare US to other countries. Here, we spend more on healthcare. BUT we also spend more on many other things. If you want to make a balanced society, you have to also cut many other expenses.
Just FYI, the expenditure of fuel in US is near 3-4 times of any other developed country per capita. Why nobody wants to save money by cutting the energy expenditure?

1. The purpose of cutting the budget is to reduce debt load for the US. The money "saved" would simply be money not being spent. There aren't bucket loads of money sitting in the vault to be spent on either health care or financial markets. The US currently has to issue massive amounts of bonds to pay for their expenditures. Spending less means less debt issuance to compromise the integrity of the financial system.

2. The problem isn't just physician salaries, which, according to figures I've seen is around 9%. The problem is fee for service. Even though the actual amount of money going into physicians' pockets is small within the context of the health care sector, massive amounts of resources is expended with every service provided. Therefore, the incentives are misaligned in that doing more (regardless of need) would lead to higher compensation for physicians, but the resource expenditure on the system is orders of magnitude greater.

3. People aren't just talking about absolute expenditure. They're talking about proportional expenditure. The US is currently spending 17% of GDP on health care, which is double the next highest spender. You can't have almost 20% of your GDP on health care, which is ultimately a resource sink. You're not investing in infrastructure or capital goods - you can't export health care for oil. You have to produce tangible goods or at least specialized services. Health care, as a whole, is dragging down the American economy for this very reason. Keep in mind that increasing health care costs make it more difficult for employers to increase their number of employees.

How the hell do you decrease energy expenditure? Use less energy and cripple the economy? What do you think makes the world go 'round?
Cut the cost of energy? I guess if supply and demand didn't apply, it would be possible.
 
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Well almost everyone should be bearish on medicine; it only makes sense to be bullish for the innovative, well-differentiated fields. I agree about the $820 M figure being inconsequential, but feel that it is probably wrong. Assuming a near 100% utilization rate has profound consequences on the imaging market by completely changing the equipment amortization. This creates a huge barrier to entry for new radiologists...I guess they can still own stock of existing imaging equipment, but buying your own equipment will have a ridiculously long amortization...too long to justify the decision. I.e., for all practical purposes, new radiologists will no longer be able to buy their own imaging equipment.

The only "game-changer" would be a new or hybrid modality where you can restart the whole process...meaning start at very low utilization rates, which would dramatically increase reimbursements and incentivize the purchase of imaging equipment.

You're assuming the rules of the game won't be changed. Right now, reimbursement for imaging is heavily dependent on utilization rates - a largely arbitrary quantification. But, there's no reason this system will be or has to be kept in place. The government can \assume near 100% utilization rates and simply subsidize however much of the equipment isn't paid off in a given amount of time. They can even throw in a small profit for the hospital system to create incentive for initial acquisition of new technology. This won't quell R&D either, since designers and manufacturers of said technology will still get their end of the deal. Keep in mind that there's a difference between people who use this technology to provide a service (radiologists) and makers of said technology.
 
You're assuming the rules of the game won't be changed. Right now, reimbursement for imaging is heavily dependent on utilization rates - a largely arbitrary quantification. But, there's no reason this system will be or has to be kept in place.

I like the roguish nature of your post and agree that there is no reason why the system must be what it is, but completely disagree that AUR is arbitrary. It's just supply and demand econ. The problem is that the government is trying to make AUR arbitrary by simply mandating a universal increase in the AUR regardless of the actual utilization (which is quantifiable). This is basically a desperate attempt at government regulation of a market already relatively well-controlled by free market economics in order to decrease healthcare costs.

The government can \assume near 100% utilization rates and simply subsidize however much of the equipment isn't paid off in a given amount of time.

Perhaps... but this would incentivize irrational purchase of equipment in that very expensive equipment with low actual utilization will be subsidized in an effort to maintain an irrationally high universal AUR. That is, a radiologist who knows that there is no significant demand in a given area will buy equipment anyway because the government will subsidize the amortization regardless. Why not "buy" equipment if there is little risk and you can start collecting your own equipment fees?

They can even throw in a small profit for the hospital system to create incentive for initial acquisition of new technology. This won't quell R&D either, since designers and manufacturers of said technology will still get their end of the deal. Keep in mind that there's a difference between people who use this technology to provide a service (radiologists) and makers of said technology.

They can but that's not consistent with their proposal. As it stands, the proposed budget cuts will NOT incentivize acquisition of new tech or updates to existing tech. If you don't believe me on this, re-read that expert interview. This will definitely quell R&D since those who developed the updates will not meet the ROI expectations they were initially projecting, will not be able to reinvest sufficiently, and will therefore have to cut back on their R&D budget.
 
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