DO's.. aren't they like chiropractors?

[OSUdoc08]

---

Members don't see this ad.

but are chiropractors able to do a physical?

No, the physical must be done by a physician.

 

[LSU-Tech]

I used to go to a chiropractor to get my physical signed for high school sports. The school never questioned it. Now that I think back on it.. Was that legal?

Of course the signing of the physical without an exam is probably not ethical, but are chiropractors able to do a physical?

No, that was not legal. That’s exactly the kind of unethical crap I’ve been preaching. D@mn chiropractors need to stop deceiving the public into thinking they are legitimate physicians (MD/DO).

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

No, the physical must be done by a physician.

Actually, Kentucky passed a law allowing sports physicals to be performed by chiros. Unbelievable!! Those guys have been advertising alot for sports physicals as well. It's just sad.

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

I've been training for years for that

GLASS JOE ROCKS!!

 

[OSUdoc08]

Actually, Kentucky passed a law allowing sports physicals to be performed by chiros. Unbelievable!! Those guys have been advertising alot for sports physicals as well. It's just sad.

I wonder if they use an activator?

 

[place]

Yea, the chiropractors are in the news a lot in my town. One of them was recently arrested for abusing prescription drugs after years of legal trouble. I think he was somehow using his status as a chiro to prescribe painkillers and a pharmacy was filling them.. cant remember for sure. But hes in prison now.
--small town--

 

[place]

Oh yea, the guy who signed my physicals used an activator. Pretty much felt like the most worthless thing you can have done to your body. They press into your vertebra and "pull the trigger thing". It pops, and pretty much feels like a hammer being pounded on your backbone. Works great.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Oh yea, the guy who signed my physicals used an activator. Pretty much felt like the most worthless thing you can have done to your body. They press into your vertebra and "pull the trigger thing". It pops, and pretty much feels like a hammer being pounded on your backbone. Works great.

Why use your hands when you can get a pogo stick to do it for you?

 

[Fenrezz]

What the hell is an activator? Sounds like a hair care product.

 

[OSUdoc08]

What the hell is an activator? Sounds like a hair care product.

It might be.

Check out the website.

 

[place]

If i ever purchased one of those I would want the signature series so i could have my name engraved.

 

[skiiboy]

You guys really make some of the most ridiculous, ignorant and uneducated comments. Although I am not testifying as to the efficacy of the activator, there is one major benefit to using this device. Often times patients tense up and have physiological changes when doctors(DO,DC) lay there hands on them. The activator adjustment is extremely precise and quick enough so that the patient does not stiffen their muscles prior to the adjustment. Also, an activator can be set to have several different settings, so you may set it to have different strengths for different joints.

I don’t think that they couldn’t hack it. However, I do believe that they were uninformed about the politics regarding chiropractics. With the corruptness, high tuition, and total lack of respect, I don’t understand why any student would consider chiropractics. Especially, a med student with his/her entire life ahead of them. If indeed manipulative therapy has a place, it is with the Osteopaths. I believe that the Osteopathic profession allows the chiropractic profession o be totally dispensable. I wonder if anyone has ever been denied admissions by a chiropractic school.

Fast Company came out very recently with their top 25 jobs for 2005, Chiropractor was #4 !!! Sorry guys(MD/DO) your not even listed at all. Check it out

http://www.fastcompany.com/articles/2005/01/top-jobs-main.html#chiro

Also, in MANY states chiropractors are considered physicians. Chiropractors DO NOT need a referral to see patients like physical therapists do. Chiropractors ARE trained and must make medical differential diagnosis on every single patient for all conditions. And the states where chiropractors are not considered physicians, it is mostly due to there own efforts against it. Some very straight philosophical state organizations often fight the use of this term and as such some states still do not use it.

Also LSU-Tech you really just have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to chiropractic. And if your going to write critiques about the profession at least make them sound somewhat articulate. After all I am going to be an osteopath, and the way you speak does not reflect well on our profession. How dare you make the comment that most people going into chiropractic schools can not hack it in medical school? Osteopathic schools are FILLED, in fact there overflowing with students who wish they had gotten into allopathic institutions. I know this is not the case with all osteopathic students, it certainly is not with me, but how in the world could you make this criticism against chiropractic. Most chiropractic students chose chiropractic not because they wanted to be medical doctors and could not get in, but rather because chiropractic offers a truly distinct model of healthcare, with a very different foundation of health and disease. Although I can not prove it, I would make the bet that most chiropractic students are there because they truly want to be chiropractors, while most osteopathic students are there because they just want to be a medical doctor(MD,DO).

Chiropractors by the way, hands down, no questions asked... far and away,,, have way more training in manipulation then physical therapists, osteopaths and physiatrists combined! This is not opinion, that is simple fact. Its not even a close second. A simple review of their respective curriculums illustrates this undeniable fact. Also, although most are not aware of this fact, chiropractors are now being employed in hospital emergency rooms.

Having said this, I believe that ultimately osteopathic medical school offers it's students more tools with which to help patients than chiropractic school and is precisely why I am attending in the fall. However, this may only be the case with those few osteopaths who actually practice in someway that differentiates them from allopathic doctors, and unfortunately it's just not that many.


I am not a chiropractor guys, so please save your rants. This is not a bash against the osteopathic profession, its just an accurate assessment of the current situation.

 

[VentdependenT]

I wonder if they use an activator?

Well, at least they don't use these:

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/

Damn hollywood freaks.

Wait a minute, "E-meter was actually invented by a chiropractor named Volney Mathison." Although I don't believe they intended its use to measure "body thetans."

Never befriend a scientologist.

 

[BackTalk]

I don’t think that they couldn’t hack it. However, I do believe that they were uninformed about the politics regarding chiropractics. With the corruptness, high tuition, and total lack of respect, I don’t understand why any student would consider chiropractics. Especially, a med student with his/her entire life ahead of them. If indeed manipulative therapy has a place, it is with the Osteopaths. I believe that the Osteopathic profession allows the chiropractic profession o be totally dispensable. I wonder if anyone has ever been denied admissions by a chiropractic school.

However, I do believe that they were uninformed about the politics regarding chiropractics. With the corruptness, high tuition, and total lack of respect, I don’t understand why any student would consider chiropractics.

I agree. Again, you would have to be absolutely nuts to enter this profession. Why put yourself through it? As it stands now, I'm here for the long haul. Give me a few years, my opinion may change. Education has and will continue to improve. I think with time the philosophical crap will be slowly fazed out.

Especially, a med student with his/her entire life ahead of them.

The two in my class said they "don't want to be drug pushers". There words, not mine.

If indeed manipulative therapy has a place, it is with the Osteopaths.

I disagree. Chiropractic owns it now. Osteopaths gave it up to be to be medical doctors. You will have a hard time in the real world, finding a DO that practices manipulation. Now PT's think they are qualified to put manipulation under their scope of practice.

Wonder if anyone has ever been denied admissions by a chiropractic school.

Yes. If you do not meet the minimal standards or requirements (which are low) you will be turned away. I had students in my class that were booted for poor academic performance. You can only be put on probation so many times before you're asked or rather told to leave.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You guys really make some of the most ridiculous, ignorant and uneducated comments. Although I am not testifying as to the efficacy of the activator, there is one major benefit to using this device. Often times patients tense up and have physiological changes when doctors(DO,DC) lay there hands on them. The activator adjustment is extremely precise and quick enough so that the patient does not stiffen their muscles prior to the adjustment. Also, an activator can be set to have several different settings, so you may set it to have different strengths for different joints.



Fast Company came out very recently with their top 25 jobs for 2005, Chiropractor was #4 !!! Sorry guys(MD/DO) your not even listed at all. Check it out

http://www.fastcompany.com/articles/2005/01/top-jobs-main.html#chiro

Also, in MANY states chiropractors are considered physicians. Chiropractors DO NOT need a referral to see patients like physical therapists do. Chiropractors ARE trained and must make medical differential diagnosis on every single patient for all conditions. And the states where chiropractors are not considered physicians, it is mostly due to there own efforts against it. Some very straight philosophical state organizations often fight the use of this term and as such some states still do not use it.

Also LSU-Tech you really just have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to chiropractic. And if your going to write critiques about the profession at least make them sound somewhat articulate. After all I am going to be an osteopath, and the way you speak does not reflect well on our profession. How dare you make the comment that most people going into chiropractic schools can not hack it in medical school? Osteopathic schools are FILLED, in fact there overflowing with students who wish they had gotten into allopathic institutions. I know this is not the case with all osteopathic students, it certainly is not with me, but how in the world could you make this criticism against chiropractic. Most chiropractic students chose chiropractic not because they wanted to be medical doctors and could not get in, but rather because chiropractic offers a truly distinct model of healthcare, with a very different foundation of health and disease. Although I can not prove it, I would make the bet that most chiropractic students are there because they truly want to be chiropractors, while most osteopathic students are there because they just want to be a medical doctor(MD,DO).

Chiropractors by the way, hands down, no questions asked... far and away,,, have way more training in manipulation then physical therapists, osteopaths and physiatrists combined! This is not opinion, that is simple fact. Its not even a close second. A simple review of their respective curriculums illustrates this undeniable fact. Also, although most are not aware of this fact, chiropractors are now being employed in hospital emergency rooms.

Having said this, I believe that ultimately osteopathic medical school offers it's students more tools with which to help patients than chiropractic school and is precisely why I am attending in the fall. However, this may only be the case with those few osteopaths who actually practice in someway that differentiates them from allopathic doctors, and unfortunately it's just not that many.


I am not a chiropractor guys, so please save your rants. This is not a bash against the osteopathic profession, its just an accurate assessment of the current situation.

Ironically, the benefit of laying hands on patients is quite the opposite. It comforts the patient.

A pogo stick bouncing on your spine would not comfort me. I'd rather have hands that can feel the range of motion.

 

[LSU-Tech]

You guys really make some of the most ridiculous, ignorant and uneducated comments. Although I am not testifying as to the efficacy of the activator, there is one major benefit to using this device. Often times patients tense up and have physiological changes when doctors(DO,DC) lay there hands on them. The activator adjustment is extremely precise and quick enough so that the patient does not stiffen their muscles prior to the adjustment. Also, an activator can be set to have several different settings, so you may set it to have different strengths for different joints.



Fast Company came out very recently with their top 25 jobs for 2005, Chiropractor was #4 !!! Sorry guys(MD/DO) your not even listed at all. Check it out

http://www.fastcompany.com/articles/2005/01/top-jobs-main.html#chiro

Also, in MANY states chiropractors are considered physicians. Chiropractors DO NOT need a referral to see patients like physical therapists do. Chiropractors ARE trained and must make medical differential diagnosis on every single patient for all conditions. And the states where chiropractors are not considered physicians, it is mostly due to there own efforts against it. Some very straight philosophical state organizations often fight the use of this term and as such some states still do not use it.

Also LSU-Tech you really just have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to chiropractic. And if your going to write critiques about the profession at least make them sound somewhat articulate. After all I am going to be an osteopath, and the way you speak does not reflect well on our profession. How dare you make the comment that most people going into chiropractic schools can not hack it in medical school? Osteopathic schools are FILLED, in fact there overflowing with students who wish they had gotten into allopathic institutions. I know this is not the case with all osteopathic students, it certainly is not with me, but how in the world could you make this criticism against chiropractic. Most chiropractic students chose chiropractic not because they wanted to be medical doctors and could not get in, but rather because chiropractic offers a truly distinct model of healthcare, with a very different foundation of health and disease. Although I can not prove it, I would make the bet that most chiropractic students are there because they truly want to be chiropractors, while most osteopathic students are there because they just want to be a medical doctor(MD,DO).

Chiropractors by the way, hands down, no questions asked... far and away,,, have way more training in manipulation then physical therapists, osteopaths and physiatrists combined! This is not opinion, that is simple fact. Its not even a close second. A simple review of their respective curriculums illustrates this undeniable fact. Also, although most are not aware of this fact, chiropractors are now being employed in hospital emergency rooms.

Having said this, I believe that ultimately osteopathic medical school offers it's students more tools with which to help patients than chiropractic school and is precisely why I am attending in the fall. However, this may only be the case with those few osteopaths who actually practice in someway that differentiates them from allopathic doctors, and unfortunately it's just not that many.


I am not a chiropractor guys, so please save your rants. This is not a bash against the osteopathic profession, its just an accurate assessment of the current situation.

Chiropractors are not considered physicians in any state. That is, by far, the most idiotic thing I have ever heard!!!! Physicians are either a DO or an MD (Someone who is licensed practice full scope medicine/surgery) I hate the way you vehemently throw the word “physician” around as if any doctor, that practices some hocus pocus crap, can use it. I now feel less intelligent for hearing this. You should feel like a complete idiot. Do you mean the public is sometimes mislead to believe that chiropractors are physicians? I can assure you there is no law in any state that labels chiropractors as physicians. The only group out there that thinks they deserve this title are the chiropractors themselves.

As far as your website is concerned, if you look at 10 different websites, like the one you posted, you will see 10 different things. Those things are so inaccurate. If you can find another one that says everything the one you posted said, you might make a believer out of me. Furthermore, that study was probably conducted on the chiropractors that have been in practice for at least 3-5 years.

That being said, Chiropractic students learn conversational medicine. This enables them to speak as if they know about disease and healing processes and creates the illusion that they understand medical science. Chiropractic literature, however, indicates that many chiropractors don't even understand the most basic concepts of disease etiology. Some chiropractic authors still attack the germ theory as erroneous, and speak of it as if it were scientific medicine's only theory of causation.

Many new graduates are dumped into the cold, hard world where survival values often displace ethics. Many discover that they are not in a true profession, but a guild of survivors who must sink or swim. A large percentage ¬ half, according to chiropractic sources ¬ fail in practice. This is one reason that chiropractors have the unhappy distinction of having the highest default rate of all who obtain Health Education Assistance Loans from the federal government. (Figures released in January 1998 showed that 817 chiropractors owed a total of $59 million.) This is fact. I wonder if you still think it’s a noble profession?

My info came straight from this site:
http://www.chirobase.org/01General/career.html

 

[mx_599]

Why use your hands when you can get a pogo stick to do it for you?

 

[pushinepi2]

I used to go to a chiropractor to get my physical signed for high school sports. The school never questioned it. Now that I think back on it.. Was that legal?

Of course the signing of the physical without an exam is probably not ethical, but are chiropractors able to do a physical?

That's an interesting question. I posted on one of the other forums about this specific policy. It is most certainly unETHICAL, but I'd bet municipalities are free to make up their own regulations. The incident I mentioned in my previous post (in the EM forum occured) when a local s. Fla municipality employed chiropractors to complete pre-employment physicals. This policy no longer occurs.

A brief internet search further muddies our collective medical waters.... In Missouri, a chiropractor/podiatrist/optometrist/MD/DO can complete a form attesting to a person's disability.

From the Florida attorney general's office:

In opinions heretofore rendered by this office, chiropractors have been recognized as "registered," "licensed," or "qualified" physicians within the intent of various statutes of this state. For instance, it has been held that chiropractors are "qualified physicians or surgeons" within the meaning of the medical treatment provisions of the workmen's compensation act... and that they are "registered licensed physicians" within the meaning of s. 509.221(9), F. S., and thus authorized to issue health certificates to waiters, waitresses, and food handlers as required by that statute.

Florida also allows naturopaths to complete pre-marital physicals, but that's an altogether different issue. Though chiropractors aren't "complete" licensed physicians, they are without question permitted in some states to perform assessments and physical exams related to disability.

-Push

 

[OSUdoc08]

That's an interesting question. I posted on one of the other forums about this specific policy. It is most certainly unETHICAL, but I'd bet municipalities are free to make up their own regulations. The incident I mentioned in my previous post (in the EM forum occured) when a local s. Fla municipality employed chiropractors to complete pre-employment physicals. This policy no longer occurs.

A brief internet search further muddies our collective medical waters.... In Missouri, a chiropractor/podiatrist/optometrist/MD/DO can complete a form attesting to a person's disability.

From the Florida attorney general's office:

In opinions heretofore rendered by this office, chiropractors have been recognized as "registered," "licensed," or "qualified" physicians within the intent of various statutes of this state. For instance, it has been held that chiropractors are "qualified physicians or surgeons" within the meaning of the medical treatment provisions of the workmen's compensation act... and that they are "registered licensed physicians" within the meaning of s. 509.221(9), F. S., and thus authorized to issue health certificates to waiters, waitresses, and food handlers as required by that statute.

Florida also allows naturopaths to complete pre-marital physicals, but that's an altogether different issue. Though chiropractors aren't "complete" licensed physicians, they are without question permitted in some states to perform assessments and physical exams related to disability.

-Push

Florida also has a 3 strikes malpractice law. The only one in the U.S.

They also don't know how to vote properly.

Don't ever go to Florida.

 

[BackTalk]

Chiropractors are not considered physicians in any state. That is, by far, the most idiotic thing I have ever heard!!!! Physicians are either a DO or an MD (Someone who is licensed practice full scope medicine/surgery) I hate the way you vehemently throw the word “physician” around as if any doctor, that practices some hocus pocus crap, can use it. I now feel less intelligent for hearing this. You should feel like a complete idiot. Do you mean the public is sometimes mislead to believe that chiropractors are physicians? I can assure you there is no law in any state that labels chiropractors as physicians. The only group out there that thinks they deserve this title are the chiropractors themselves.

As far as your website is concerned, if you look at 10 different websites, like the one you posted, you will see 10 different things. Those things are so inaccurate. If you can find another one that says everything the one you posted said, you might make a believer out of me. Furthermore, that study was probably conducted on the chiropractors that have been in practice for at least 3-5 years.

That being said, Chiropractic students learn conversational medicine. This enables them to speak as if they know about disease and healing processes and creates the illusion that they understand medical science. Chiropractic literature, however, indicates that many chiropractors don't even understand the most basic concepts of disease etiology. Some chiropractic authors still attack the germ theory as erroneous, and speak of it as if it were scientific medicine's only theory of causation.

Many new graduates are dumped into the cold, hard world where survival values often displace ethics. Many discover that they are not in a true profession, but a guild of survivors who must sink or swim. A large percentage ¬ half, according to chiropractic sources ¬ fail in practice. This is one reason that chiropractors have the unhappy distinction of having the highest default rate of all who obtain Health Education Assistance Loans from the federal government. (Figures released in January 1998 showed that 817 chiropractors owed a total of $59 million.) This is fact. I wonder if you still think it’s a noble profession?

My info came straight from this site:
http://www.chirobase.org/01General/career.html

Chiropractors are not considered physicians in any state.

Like it or not, they are considered "physician" in most states.

That is, by far, the most idiotic thing I have ever heard!!!! Physicians are either a DO or an MD (Someone who is licensed practice full scope medicine/surgery)

In Illinois DC/DO/MD practice under the same practice act and are all considered equal. I use this state as an example because I practice here. The only difference is scope of practice where DC's "treat human ailments without the use of prescription medication or operative surgery" Oooooowwww.....I bet that hurts.

I now feel less intelligent for hearing this. You should feel like a complete idiot. Do you mean the public is sometimes mislead to believe that chiropractors are physicians?

I think you need to understand that chiropractic physician is not the same thing as medical physician. A dentist is considered a physician in many states too. Are dentists and medical doctors the same thing? We do not mislead the public into thinking we are medical doctors.

I can assure you there is no law in any state that labels chiropractors as physicians. The only group out there that thinks they deserve this title are the chiropractors themselves.

I can assure you there are many states that label chiropractors as physician. This statement just proves that half the time you have no idea what you are talking about. You have done no research other than on quackery. You have not studied the DC education or the process in which they become licensed. You have no idea as to their scope of practice and what titles they are allowed to use.

Many new graduates are dumped into the cold, hard world where survival values often displace ethics.

True

Many discover that they are not in a true profession, but a guild of survivors who must sink or swim. A large percentage half, according to chiropractic sources fail in practice.

Don't know the updated statistics on this one but that's probably accurate.

This is one reason that chiropractors have the unhappy distinction of having the highest default rate of all who obtain Health Education Assistance Loans from the federal government.

Again, true.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Chiropractors are not considered physicians in any state.

Like it or not, they are considered "physician" in most states.

That is, by far, the most idiotic thing I have ever heard!!!! Physicians are either a DO or an MD (Someone who is licensed practice full scope medicine/surgery)

In Illinois DC/DO/MD practice under the same practice act and are all considered equal. I use this state as an example because I practice here. The only difference is scope of practice where DC's "treat human ailments without the use of prescription medication or operative surgery" Oooooowwww.....I bet that hurts.

I now feel less intelligent for hearing this. You should feel like a complete idiot. Do you mean the public is sometimes mislead to believe that chiropractors are physicians?

I think you need to understand that chiropractic physician is not the same thing as medical physician. A dentist is considered a physician in many states too. Are dentists and medical doctors the same thing? We do not mislead the public into thinking we are medical doctors.

I can assure you there is no law in any state that labels chiropractors as physicians. The only group out there that thinks they deserve this title are the chiropractors themselves.

I can assure you there are many states that label chiropractors as physician. This statement just proves that half the time you have no idea what you are talking about. You have done no research other than on quackery. You have not studied the DC education or the process in which they become licensed. You have no idea as to their scope of practice and what titles they are allowed to use.

Many new graduates are dumped into the cold, hard world where survival values often displace ethics.

True

Many discover that they are not in a true profession, but a guild of survivors who must sink or swim. A large percentage half, according to chiropractic sources fail in practice.

Don't know the updated statistics on this one but that's probably accurate.

This is one reason that chiropractors have the unhappy distinction of having the highest default rate of all who obtain Health Education Assistance Loans from the federal government.

Again, true.

Nope, not physicians according to the U.S. government. I'm sorry, but they just don't have the training.

Go here: federal definition of physician

By the way, chiropractors don't have 2 years of clinicals followed by a 3 year residency to train. They are also not trained in all the areas of medicine, ESPECIALLY pharmacology, surgery, emergency medicine, intensive care, critical care, psychiatry, and pretty much anything that requires a complex medical procedure.

That's right. No surgery & no pharmacology. Aren't those the 2 most important courses for someone to prescribe medicine and perform surgery?

Check out the course catalog if you don't believe me:

http://www.life.edu/newlife/academics/catalog_2004_5/COC.pdf

This school provides pharmacology, but only as a 3 hour course combined with toxicology:

http://www.parkercc.edu/global/ParkerCourseCatalog.pdf

Still no surgery or critical care here.

 

[LSU-Tech]

Chiropractors are not considered physicians in any state.

Like it or not, they are considered "physician" in most states.

That is, by far, the most idiotic thing I have ever heard!!!! Physicians are either a DO or an MD (Someone who is licensed practice full scope medicine/surgery)

In Illinois DC/DO/MD practice under the same practice act and are all considered equal. I use this state as an example because I practice here. The only difference is scope of practice where DC's "treat human ailments without the use of prescription medication or operative surgery" Oooooowwww.....I bet that hurts.

I now feel less intelligent for hearing this. You should feel like a complete idiot. Do you mean the public is sometimes mislead to believe that chiropractors are physicians?

I think you need to understand that chiropractic physician is not the same thing as medical physician. A dentist is considered a physician in many states too. Are dentists and medical doctors the same thing? We do not mislead the public into thinking we are medical doctors.

I can assure you there is no law in any state that labels chiropractors as physicians. The only group out there that thinks they deserve this title are the chiropractors themselves.

I can assure you there are many states that label chiropractors as physician. This statement just proves that half the time you have no idea what you are talking about. You have done no research other than on quackery. You have not studied the DC education or the process in which they become licensed. You have no idea as to their scope of practice and what titles they are allowed to use.

Many new graduates are dumped into the cold, hard world where survival values often displace ethics.

True

Many discover that they are not in a true profession, but a guild of survivors who must sink or swim. A large percentage half, according to chiropractic sources fail in practice.

Don't know the updated statistics on this one but that's probably accurate.

This is one reason that chiropractors have the unhappy distinction of having the highest default rate of all who obtain Health Education Assistance Loans from the federal government.

Again, true.

Are you a chiropractor? At first you sounded like a DO. However, now I am beginning to question of rather or not you are indeed a DC. If so I can understand why you are upholding the chiropractic profession. The US government does not consider them physicians. I’m sure you are misreading the information you are speaking of regarding Illinois. If not, I assure you it is false info. Like OSUdoc08 said, they lack the training to be labeled “physicians”. I would probably go as far as to say a podiatrist, whose scope of medicine lies below the knee and nowhere else, has more medical terminology than a DC. Yet, DPMs are not considered physicians, so why would chiropractors be?

Dictionary.com labels a physician as one of the following:
1. A person licensed to practice medicine; a medical doctor.
2. A person who practices general medicine as distinct from surgery.

Sorry buddy, but chiropractics do not fit in either one of those categories.
I don’t understand why you go though my entire posts and point out everything, even what you (an obvious witch doctor) agree with. Do you want to debate your unproven medical perspectives or agree with me? I believe in what’s real. By this I mean methods of medicine that are PROVEN to work. You said yourself in a previous post that you do not by the whole subluxation bit. That’s primarily what the whole profession is based on. So are you believer or not? Make up your d@mn mind.

 

[OSUdoc08]

It looks like its time to pull out the old chart again.

http://www.osteohome.com/SubPages/compare.html

 

[Robz]

oy....another physician/chrio thread.....

 

[pushinepi2]

Florida also has a 3 strikes malpractice law. The only one in the U.S.

They also don't know how to vote properly.

Don't ever go to Florida.

Hey! That three strikes thing is under appeal. Also, we do know how to vote properly. It was those machines! It was the misleading instructions printed in plain English! By the way, I hope a blizzard of hanging chads makes it way across the midwestern united states into Oklahoma.

Now back to Chiro-wars....

 

[place]

why buy this when you can get an air compressor and a pneumatic nail gun for le$$?

 

[skiiboy]

Chiropractors are not considered physicians in any state. That is, by far, the most idiotic thing I have ever heard!!!! Physicians are either a DO or an MD (Someone who is licensed practice full scope medicine/surgery) I hate the way you vehemently throw the word “physician” around as if any doctor, that practices some hocus pocus crap, can use it. I now feel less intelligent for hearing this. You should feel like a complete idiot. Do you mean the public is sometimes mislead to believe that chiropractors are physicians? I can assure you there is no law in any state that labels chiropractors as physicians. The only group out there that thinks they deserve this title are the chiropractors themselves.

Do yourself a favor and just stop writing. You clearly have not a clue as to what you are talking about when it comes to any aspect of chiropractic practice or education. Check out any chiropractic school curriculum, you just might learn something. Btw, chiropractors are considered physicians in almost all states. That definition of a physician is outdated/inaccurate. Unlike podiatrists or dentists, chiropractors are not limited by a particular area of the body but are responsible for a medical differential diagnosis for all conditions. Just to give you an idea of how this plays out in the real world. If somebody goes to a podiatrist for surgery on their foot and it turns out later that this person had a metastatic tumor in his/her body and the podiatrist missed it, the podiatrist is not liable. If someone goes to a dentist because of bad tooth pain and it turns out he/she had lung cancer, and the dentist misses it, the dentist is not liable. HOWEVER, if a patient is examined by a chiropractor for back pain and the chiropractor does not do a proper full body examination (orthopedic, neurological, systematic and chiropractic exams) and the chiropractor even misses something like malignant colon cancer, that doctor is liable. Chiropractors are liable because they are trained to be primary care doctors and are not limited by any region of the body.

As far as your website is concerned, if you look at 10 different websites, like the one you posted, you will see 10 different things. Those things are so inaccurate. If you can find another one that says everything the one you posted said, you might make a believer out of me. Furthermore, that study was probably conducted on the chiropractors that have been in practice for at least 3-5 years.

Do you even bother to read the article or what you write. First of all Fast Company Magazine is a well respected periodical which many in the business world refer to. Secondly, the title of this article is TOP 25 JOBS FOR 2005. Meaning, hot jobs for you to START in 2005, not how good professions are in their third and fourth years.

That being said, Chiropractic students learn conversational medicine. This enables them to speak as if they know about disease and healing processes and creates the illusion that they understand medical science. Chiropractic literature, however, indicates that many chiropractors don't even understand the most basic concepts of disease etiology. Some chiropractic authors still attack the germ theory as erroneous, and speak of it as if it were scientific medicine's only theory of causation. Many new graduates are dumped into the cold, hard world where survival values often displace ethics. Many discover that they are not in a true profession, but a guild of survivors who must sink or swim. A large percentage half, according to chiropractic sources fail in practice. This is one reason that chiropractors have the unhappy distinction of having the highest default rate of all who obtain Health Education Assistance Loans from the federal government. (Figures released in January 1998 showed that 817 chiropractors owed a total of $59 million.) This is fact. I wonder if you still think it’s a noble profession?

This site is the absolute worse site for any factual data regarding chiropractic. The guy who wrote and maintains this site is a chiropractor who failed in private practice and realized he could make money by devoting his life to bashing the chiropractic profession. Are you also aware that on this same site he writes volumes about the "unscientific" principles of osteopaths and spends pages and pages criticizing cranio-sacral therapy along with a myriad of other osteopathic manipulative techniques.

Are you also aware that there are more practicing chiropractors in this country than osteopaths(in every medical specialty combined). In addition chiropractic has grown to be far and away the #1 alternative health treatment. It is also just below medicine and dentistry in popularity amongst the public.

Also most research done regarding manipulation IS DONE BY CHIROPRACTIC JOURNALS. JMPT (Journal of Manipulative and physiological therapeutics) is in fact a chiropractic journal. Osteopaths continue to reap the benefits of this research because every time a chiropractic study shows the efficacy of adjustments, osteopaths raise their proverbial hands and go "but we manipulate to ya know".

Obviously when it comes to medicine, osteopaths are better trained as medical doctors. Nobody is denying this fact, however one must give credit where credit is due. Chiropractors perform well over 99% of joint manipulation in this country. They are absolutely the most trained and qualified for this type of treatment. Chiropractors also receive tons of training in interpreting radiographs(x-rays). In fact a recent studied showed that chiropractors outperformed medical residents in the reading of spine films.

Ironically, the benefit of laying hands on patients is quite the opposite. It comforts the patient.A pogo stick bouncing on your spine would not comfort me. I'd rather have hands that can feel the range of motion.

OSUDOC, although most patients are comforted by the laying on of hands, there are those that become tense right before the adjustment actually takes place. Also on the joints of infants, children, elderly, arthritic and those with osteoperosis, sometimes a more gentle adjustment is called for. Activators may be set to deliver more gentle thrusts and can be even more precise than hands. The motion of the vertebral bodies and transverse processes are almost always examined by hand prior to using this device for the adjustment.

 

[LSU-Tech]

Do yourself a favor and just stop writing. You clearly have not a clue as to what you are talking about when it comes to any aspect of chiropractic practice or education. Check out any chiropractic school curriculum, you just might learn something. Btw, chiropractors are considered physicians in almost all states. That definition of a physician is outdated/inaccurate. Unlike podiatrists or dentists, chiropractors are not limited by a particular area of the body but are responsible for a medical differential diagnosis for all conditions. Just to give you an idea of how this plays out in the real world. If somebody goes to a podiatrist for surgery on their foot and it turns out later that this person had a metastatic tumor in his/her body and the podiatrist missed it, the podiatrist is not liable. If someone goes to a dentist because of bad tooth pain and it turns out he/she had lung cancer, and the dentist misses it, the dentist is not liable. HOWEVER, if a patient is examined by a chiropractor for back pain and the chiropractor does not do a proper full body examination (orthopedic, neurological, systematic and chiropractic exams) and the chiropractor even misses something like malignant colon cancer, that doctor is liable. Chiropractors are liable because they are trained to be primary care doctors and are not limited by any region of the body.



Do you even bother to read the article or what you write. First of all Fast Company Magazine is a well respected periodical which many in the business world refer to. Secondly, the title of this article is TOP 25 JOBS FOR 2005. Meaning, hot jobs for you to START in 2005, not how good professions are in their third and fourth years.




This site is the absolute worse site for any factual data regarding chiropractic. The guy who wrote and maintains this site is a chiropractor who failed in private practice and realized he could make money by devoting his life to bashing the chiropractic profession. Are you also aware that on this same site he writes volumes about the "unscientific" principles of osteopaths and spends pages and pages criticizing cranio-sacral therapy along with a myriad of other osteopathic manipulative techniques.

Are you also aware that there are more practicing chiropractors in this country than osteopaths(in every medical specialty combined). In addition chiropractic has grown to be far and away the #1 alternative health treatment. It is also just below medicine and dentistry in popularity amongst the public.

Also most research done regarding manipulation IS DONE BY CHIROPRACTIC JOURNALS. JMPT (Journal of Manipulative and physiological therapeutics) is in fact a chiropractic journal. Osteopaths continue to reap the benefits of this research because every time a chiropractic study shows the efficacy of adjustments, osteopaths raise their proverbial hands and go "but we manipulate to ya know".

Obviously when it comes to medicine, osteopaths are better trained as medical doctors. Nobody is denying this fact, however one must give credit where credit is due. Chiropractors perform well over 99% of joint manipulation in this country. They are absolutely the most trained and qualified for this type of treatment. Chiropractors also receive tons of training in interpreting radiographs(x-rays). In fact a recent studied showed that chiropractors outperformed medical residents in the reading of spine films.



OSUDOC, although most patients are comforted by the laying on of hands, there are those that become tense right before the adjustment actually takes place. Also on the joints of infants, children, elderly, arthritic and those with osteoperosis, sometimes a more gentle adjustment is called for. Activators may be set to deliver more gentle thrusts and can be even more precise than hands. The motion of the vertebral bodies and transverse processes are almost always examined by hand prior to using this device for the adjustment.

You clearly are posting nothing but wishful thinking. Chiropractors are not physicians!!!!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HARD A$$ DUNB FU**EN HEAD. People like you pi$$ me off the way you vehemently though the “physician title” around. People like you make me feel glad I got into allopathic med school. Why don’t you try to make your argument in the allopathic forum? Those guys would laugh you straight out of there. Oh yeah, the guy in the article I posted was never a chiropractor! He made that clear in the first paragraph. He was a gymnastics coach you dumba$$. Learn how to read before you try to tackle the MCAT. The 1st paragraph from my article is posted below:

“I have studied the activities of chiropractors for nearly thirty years. I became interested while teaching health and physical education at a boarding school. As a gymnastics coach, I had noted that manipulative therapy seemed to help certain athletic injuries. In time, a neighborhood chiropractor began indoctrinating me. Although I had a master's degree in health education, my coursework had never covered chiropractic. I began reading everything I could find on the subject. The health-education literature was highly critical of chiropractic, but my mentor attributed this to prejudice. So I explored chiropractic literature to see what chiropractors said about themselves. What I saw convinced me that chiropractic was a cult whose participants were often victimized by their own misguided philosophy and training.”

You will also be surprised at how many Osteopaths who do not buy the whole cranio-sacral therapy bit as well. There are so many Chiropractors in this country because almost everyone gets in the program. If everyone who wanted to be a MD/DO got in to med school, there would be too many of them as well.

I believe you said something about how

= “Chiropractors perform over 99% of joint manipulation in this country. They are absolutely the most trained and qualified for this type of treatment”.

Wow! They are the most qualified to perform a procedure that's not even medically or scientifically proven to work! Good job and congratulation on that. Neither the AMA nor the AOA classify chiropractors as physicians. Try telling any practicing MD/DO that a chiropractor is a physician and you can probably expect them to laugh in your face. Posts just one website that says the US government, the AMA or the AOA classifies chiropractors as physicians. You will not find one because there are none.

Once again, the guy in my article was not a DC. In the future, make sure you completely read though and comprehend material before you criticize a study that someone conducted over a 30 year period. You freakin idiot! Good look on the MCAT with your suck A$$ comprehension skills! Besides anything you say appears to be merely hypothetical.

I know I’m going to piss a lot of people off with this post, and I don’t care. I have completely lost a patience with this subject.

Yours

 

[tkim]

closing.