DO's & Residencies

[jenniferhan1987]

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Hey all. I am intrigued by osteopathy, and wish schools emphasized this field more! Anyway, about residencies after you graduate, my understanding is that you can take the USMLE, as well as the COM-PLEX, right? So, DO's CAN apply to both allopathic and osteopathic residencies. I'm sure MD's are given more of an advantage for allopathic residencies, but DOs can apply, too...Right?

 

[da Vincis World]

Hey all. I am intrigued by osteopathy, and wish schools emphasized this field more! Anyway, about residencies after you graduate, my understanding is that you can take the USMLE, as well as the COM-PLEX, right? So, DO's CAN apply to both allopathic and osteopathic residencies. I'm sure MD's are given more of an advantage for allopathic residencies, but DOs can apply, too...Right?

It's COMLEX and yes you can apply to both DO and MD residencies however some allopathic residencies are not DO friendly (ie do not take many/any DOs).

 

[Ibn Rushd]

DO students are required to take the COMLEX, but they also have the option to take the USMLE. DOs can also apply to both allopathic and osteopathic residencies, yes.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Hey all. I am intrigued by osteopathy, and wish schools emphasized this field more! Anyway, about residencies after you graduate, my understanding is that you can take the USMLE, as well as the COM-PLEX, right? So, DO's CAN apply to both allopathic and osteopathic residencies. I'm sure MD's are given more of an advantage for allopathic residencies, but DOs can apply, too...Right?

There is hardly a difference between most DOs and MDs in the real world. In academia, the curriculum is slightly different since you need to learn OMM. I know both, and there is hardly a difference between the two except for the letters after the Doctor's name. In some hospitals, DOs are referred to as MDs.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I would venture to say, that there is no difference between MDs and DOs in the real world. At least the real world that I work in.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

There is really no difference between MDs and DOs, there used to be in the past, but these days the playing field is now even. I would rank it this way MD then DO then foreign MD.

 

[ShinyDome19]

Hey so, I interviewed at an allopathic school this last week where I was told by an admissions person that the USMLE step 1 exam is being replaced in the next year or two by a new Gateway exam...which isnt going to be available to residencies anymore..so in other words, residency programs will not be able to use USMLE 1 scores as a factor in selecting students. Anyone know how this will affect DO students since they would have COMLEX scores on their record..or has anyone else heard of this?

 

[Gabby]

Hey so, I interviewed at an allopathic school this last week where I was told by an admissions person that the USMLE step 1 exam is being replaced in the next year or two by a new Gateway exam...which isnt going to be available to residencies anymore..so in other words, residency programs will not be able to use USMLE 1 scores as a factor in selecting students. Anyone know how this will affect DO students since they would have COMLEX scores on their record..or has anyone else heard of this?

I wasn't aware it was going to happen that quickly. I thought they were thinking of making the USMLE pass/fail in the next five years or something. Next year or the year after, huh?

So what will residencies use then? Class rank and third year grades?

No idea how this will affect COMLEX.

 

[ChiDO]

COMLEX is going to be combined as well.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

COMLEX is going to be combined as well.

Any idea when?

 

[skybliss]

If COMLEX and USMLE are going to be either combined, or made into pass fail, how are med schools going to rank applicants?

Seems that class rank and med school grades wouldn't be a dependable standardized way of doing this.

 

[ShyRem]

From what I've heard from PDs, they aren't happy about the combined exam, but have no idea yet how they will handle applications at that point nor how to choose who to interview.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Wait ... what is going on?

-Are they combining the USMLE and COMLEX into one exam for all MD/DO?
-Are they making both the USMLE and COMLEX just pass/fail?
-Are they making a new exam for everyone to take?

I'm confused.

 

[Gabby]

From what I've heard from PDs, they aren't happy about the combined exam, but have no idea yet how they will handle applications at that point nor how to choose who to interview.

PDs on the allo side or osteo side or both? Are you interviewing this year?

 

[cliquesh]

Wait ... what is going on?

-Are they combining the USMLE and COMLEX into one exam for all MD/DO?
-Are they making both the USMLE and COMLEX just pass/fail?
-Are they making a new exam for everyone to take?

I'm confused.

This isn't completely accurate, but I think they are merging step 1 and 2 of the USMLE into a new exam because so many residents are forgetting the basic science. Eventually, the COMLEX will be restructured, but the USMLE will be first.

 

[ChiDO]

This isn't completely accurate, but I think they are merging step 1 and 2 of the USMLE into a new exam because so many residents are forgetting the basic science. Eventually, the COMLEX will be restructured, but the USMLE will be first.

I think the exam will be less of step 1 and more of step 2 when they are going to be combined.

 

[ShyRem]

I have not heard about the COMLEX merging level 1 and 2.

USMLE is merging step 1 and 2 and allo (last date I heard was 2010, but that is not announced to be set in stone) and dual-accreditation PDs are not happy about this. AOA PDs are thinking the COMLEX will be next to merge level 1 and 2 and are also not pleased at this prospect, but it is just supposition that the COMLEX will now eventually merge into one exam even though that has not been discussed by anyone other than those thinking COMLEX will follow USMLE to my knowledge.

There is no talk to merge COMLEX and USMLE into one exam that I know of.

I have heard rumors of making USMLE pass/fail, but no confirmatory statements.

I am interviewing this year. It's nerve-wracking, exhilarating, and financially exhausting. No clue as to how you do until match day so you spend lots of time waiting, time traveling, time asking/telling your rotation coordinators/physicians that you won't be at the rotation for yet another interview and hope it won't affect your grade too much, or even worse look bad if you're doing an away rotation somewhere you want to get an interview at.

Oh - and USMLE is considering getting rid of the clinical skills portion of step 2. COMLEX will probably never get rid of the clinical skills portion. Fortunately I've passed both my level 2 exams and am home free until level 3 and trying to get a good residency position.

You should all realize that all of these are rumors at this point and no dates have been finalized for any changes to the step exams. Until such time as a date for change is announced, you should consider all changes as rumors until proven (i.e. announced by NBME or NBOME) confirmed.

 

[ShyRem]

Oh, and I need obviously need coffee and/or sleep after reading the above word-vomit I just finished typing.

 

[Gabby]

Thanks Shyrem. I always count on your posts when I want to probe beyond the SDN rumor mill. Mind if I ask if you're applying allo and osteo or just one or the other and what specialty?

I'm curious how you've been greeted in allo interviews just because of other posts on this forum regarding DOs in allo residencies so I'd love a perspective from someone who's actually there.

 

[ShyRem]

I am applying to AOA and dually-accredited programs. I have no desire to bite my nails over more than one match; in addition, I am applying IM/EM and also IM. IM/EM doesn't have many programs, so my chances are better in an AOA program. I have been interviewed by MDs and DOs, and have worked with many MDs throughout my education. There is no bias from the majority of physicians. All they care about is whether you are competent, know your stuff, are interested in learning, and whether they can trust you and teach you.

I think whether you run into problems depends on what you want to do. Is it hard to do a ROAD specialty as a DO in the ACGME match? Sure. It's also hard to do a ROAD specialty as an MD student in the ACGME match. But if you're a great applicant no one will care with a few notable exceptions which may change by the time you are ready for match. To my knowledge, everyone in my class who applied to both types of programs is having no problems getting interviews at a wide variety of places they applied.

More than stressing about DO in an ACGME match I would take more time to figure out which residency programs are malignant and avoid them like the plague. Yes, there are residencies out there that are worse than not matching at all. Do your research.

 

[Gabby]

Thanks for the info! Where would one find out about these malignant programs?

 

[Dissected]

More than stressing about DO in an ACGME match I would take more time to figure out which residency programs are malignant and avoid them like the plague. Yes, there are residencies out there that are worse than not matching at all. Do your research.

How do you research something like that 😕

 

[wook]

I am applying to AOA and dually-accredited programs. I have no desire to bite my nails over more than one match; in addition, I am applying IM/EM and also IM. IM/EM doesn't have many programs, so my chances are better in an AOA program. I have been interviewed by MDs and DOs, and have worked with many MDs throughout my education. There is no bias from the majority of physicians. All they care about is whether you are competent, know your stuff, are interested in learning, and whether they can trust you and teach you.

I think whether you run into problems depends on what you want to do. Is it hard to do a ROAD specialty as a DO in the ACGME match? Sure. It's also hard to do a ROAD specialty as an MD student in the ACGME match. But if you're a great applicant no one will care with a few notable exceptions which may change by the time you are ready for match. To my knowledge, everyone in my class who applied to both types of programs is having no problems getting interviews at a wide variety of places they applied.

More than stressing about DO in an ACGME match I would take more time to figure out which residency programs are malignant and avoid them like the plague. Yes, there are residencies out there that are worse than not matching at all. Do your research.

Good luck with the match Shy...Please, send me a PM and let me know where you end up.

Wook

 

[ArsenalEPL4Life]

Quick question ShyRem....or anyone else who is a med student applying for residency. What is a ROAD specialty? Also, how difficult is it to get a General Surgery Residency, or go into Nephrology. Those are two fields I am pretty interested in at the moment, I know that is subject to change.

 

[ShyRem]

ROAD residency: Radiology, Orthopedic surgery, Anesthesiology, Dermatology. These are typically the toughest residencies to get into and the competition is tough. Emergency medicine is climbing the ranks these days as well.

Gen Surg isn't tough to get into - but the hours are absolute killer and people drop out first year due to inability to handle the stress, being yelled at (surgery is famous for this but there are programs where they are a little nicer), and hours.

Nephrology is an IM subspecialty. You have to do internal medicine first.

 

[Dissected]

ShyRem, how do you pick out 'malignant' residencies? I'm just a 1st year, but it will be nice to know what to look for once I start getting into the hospital.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

ShyRem, how do you pick out 'malignant' residencies? I'm just a 1st year, but it will be nice to know what to look for once I start getting into the hospital.

This site has some updated info on programs that are malignant. I think scutwork.com has some info to but the ones that I have seen were a little dated.
www.malignantresidency.com

 

[JanikeyDoc]

This site has some updated info on programs that are malignant. I think scutwork.com has some info to but the ones that I have seen were a little dated.
www.malignantresidency.com

Most of the residencies listed are Allopathic, are there any DO residencies that are considered malignant? Some really big name programs are listed, that is pretty alarming.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Most of the residencies listed are Allopathic, are there any DO residencies that are considered malignant? Some really big name programs are listed, that is pretty alarming.

I'm still looking for some. If you are interested in ortho then you can check out orthogate for reviews on DO programs, but other than that I haven't seen any real reviews about DO residency programs.

 

[ShyRem]

I would do a search for fired residents. Do a search for the residency at all and see what comes up. Any of their residents leave before training is over? Why? When you visit are they happy? And I'm not talking about the ones that they schedule you to see... I'm talking look around when you tour the hospital. Look around and keep your eyes open. You can tell unhappy people from a mile away. Do a search for the hospital. What is their reputation? Ask people in the area when you book your hotel; go out for breakfast and ask the waitress/waiter/counter staff. poke around. If it's malignant, you'll find out.

Any program that goes unmatched or poorly matched for years is a red flag. Find out why.

If you want to know what to look for, do a search for Kingman Arizona. You will understand if you poke around enough.

 

[ArsenalEPL4Life]

ShyRem, so is the fellowship for Nephrology difficult to obtain after completeing a Internal Medicine residency? Also, is this the same process for cardiology, urology, and GI?

 

[ShyRem]

arsenal, it seems you need to do some research regarding your desired specialt(ies). Cards, uro, GI, nephro... all are subspecialties off of IM. Start with Freida for some well laid out information (I find it much easier to read than the opportunities AOA residency site). The AOA residencies are laid out about how the ACGME ones are.

As for fellowship opportunities, I would consider this when you are applying for residency. Get into med school first, pass your classes, do your core rotations and figure out what you want to do. (yes, I can hear it now - "but I just know for sure I want to do nephrology!" Yeah, that's what everyone in first year says. They're "sure". Most change their minds.) Then when it's time to apply for residency look at your options.