DOs what Total debt are you graduating in 2013 with?

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Total Education Debt (undergrad + med school + interest)

  • <50k

    Votes: 10 10.8%

  • <150k

    Votes: 5 5.4%

  • 150-200k

    Votes: 7 7.5%

  • 200-250k

    Votes: 12 12.9%

  • 250-300k

    Votes: 18 19.4%

  • 300-350k

    Votes: 19 20.4%

  • 350-400k

    Votes: 11 11.8%

  • >400k

    Votes: 11 11.8%
  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .
Maybe you should make a distinction between public or private schools?
 
A scary thread to venture into, thus far. As an incoming ms-1 getting ready to take out $65k, it hurts to think about the giant amount I'm going to find myself looking at in four years.
 
I am starting school in fall and I took out 35000 for OMS 1. I calculated that by the time I graduate, I would have to pay around175,000 dollar in loan (both grad, undergrad)
 
Scary number so far is that 50% have >300k. In 2012 that number was 19%.
 
I don't know if it's more concerning that students are graduating with such high debt or that a high number are graduating with so little (meaning they had extra resources to pay for school that most of us don't).
 
I'm graduating with $336,000. I had no undergrad debt. Went to AZCOM with tuition starting at 43k but ended at 54k.

I have kids so I borrowed the maximum amount allowed.

Thus another reason why I went Ortho.

My plan- I'm on IBR right now paying $10 a month. I have applied for public service loan forgiveness. Residency knocks 5 years of that and most likely ill take a hospital job for 5 years after residency to qualify for loan forgiveness. I'll pay as much interest as possible during residency.
 
During our exit counseling/tips on how to deal with debt meeting before graduation, the cumulative debt for my class was quoted as $54 million.
 
Orthojoe said:
I'm graduating with $336,000. I had no undergrad debt. Went to AZCOM with tuition starting at 43k but ended at 54k.

I have kids so I borrowed the maximum amount allowed.

Thus another reason why I went Ortho.

My plan- I'm on IBR right now paying $10 a month. I have applied for public service loan forgiveness. Residency knocks 5 years of that and most likely ill take a hospital job for 5 years after residency to qualify for loan forgiveness. I'll pay as much interest as possible during residency.
Click to expand...


[1] The next thing to look at is how much your loan will grow during residency.
Example of above with 336k graduating in 2013 & 5yr residency.
calculator: http://www.calculator.net/interest-calculator.html
You have a family, doing IBR with a very small payment.

Loan of $336k at 6.8% will generate interest of: $22,848/yr
-The small monthly payments you can afford towards interest will be negligible.
Just to pay 30% of that interest you will need to pay $571/mo (that is a lot of money with a family).
After 5yr residency total interest: $114,240.00

Total Loan balance at end of residency: $450,240.00

Going for PSLF is good, but you never know what job options will be at graduation time.


[2] This brings me to next point. Current osteopathic students are graduating with the largest debt. This poll shows about 43% graduating with >300k.
Yet osteopathic schools keep pushing for students to go into primary care, the lowest paid field. There is a growing disconnect (as always in academia vs marketplace) of what is told to students and what the reality is.
Current numbers (and tuition increase trends) suggest that the point where going into primary care is not a financially sound decision is very close or already here.

Of course, this information is not relayed to medical students. Counseling on minimizing and repaying student loans is done during last week of medical school. This is something that should be done during first year of medical school, not when the train has left the station.

The reality of high loan amounts and 6.8% interest debt has to be looked at by students with a rational mind. Decide how you want your next 20yrs out of medical school to be.

[3] Another example:
Case-1: student graduating with 300k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Residency 3yrs: Loan balance at end of residency: $365k
10YR repayment schedule: $4,096.00/mo
*lets say you are choosing to stay in a larger city (for many reasons e.g. family, friends, more fun), and can't find a PSLF job as there are many docs in these areas.
-Starting salary $160k ->monthly pay with 30% tax rate is $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $5,237/mo = ~85k/yr salary

Case-2: student graduating with 400k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Balance at end of residency: $487k
10YR repayment schedule: $5,604.00/mo
-Staring salary $160k ->monthly pay $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $3,729.00 = ~60k/yr salary

Most residents make more than in Case-1 & Case-2 with moonlighting.
 
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Igor4sugry said:
[1] The next thing to look at is how much your loan will grow during residency.
Example of above with 336k graduating in 2013 & 5yr residency.
calculator: http://www.calculator.net/interest-calculator.html
You have a family, doing IBR with a very small payment.

Loan of $336k at 6.8% will generate interest of: $22,848/yr
-The small monthly payments you can afford towards interest will be negligible.
Just to pay 30% of that interest you will need to pay $571/mo (that is a lot of money with a family).
After 5yr residency total interest: $114,240.00

Total Loan balance at end of residency: $450,240.00

Going for PSLF is good, but you never know what job options will be at graduation time.


[2] This brings me to next point. Current osteopathic students are graduating with the largest debt. This poll shows about 43% graduating with >300k.
Yet osteopathic schools keep pushing for students to go into primary care, the lowest paid field. There is a growing disconnect (as always in academia vs marketplace) of what is told to students and what the reality is.
Current numbers (and tuition increase trends) suggest that the point where going into primary care is not a financially sound decision is very close or already here.

Of course, this information is not relayed to medical students. Counseling on minimizing and repaying student loans is done during last week of medical school. This is something that should be done during first year of medical school, not when the train has left the station.

The reality of high loan amounts and 6.8% interest debt has to be looked at by students with a rational mind. Decide how you want your next 20yrs out of medical school to be.

[3] Another example:
Case-1: student graduating with 300k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Residency 3yrs: Loan balance at end of residency: $365k
10YR repayment schedule: $4,096.00/mo
*lets say you are choosing to stay in a larger city (for many reasons e.g. family, friends, more fun), and can't find a PSLF job as there are many docs in these areas.
-Starting salary $160k ->monthly pay with 30% tax rate is $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $5,237/mo = ~85k/yr salary

Case-2: student graduating with 400k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Balance at end of residency: $487k
10YR repayment schedule: $5,604.00/mo
-Staring salary $160k ->monthly pay $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $3,729.00 = ~60k/yr salary

Most residents make more than in Case-1 & Case-2 with moonlighting.
Click to expand...

Pretty demoralizing. Only benefit seems to be that we are at least consciously making these decisions and assuming that for our sacrifices we'll get a very secure and rewarding career.
 
I'm not sure its worth going to school for 8-10yrs to be making $5-6k/mo (after all expenses).
 
Igor4sugry said:
I'm not sure its worth going to school for 8-10yrs to be making $5-6k/mo (after all expenses).
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but with IBR and PAYE the debt becomes much more manageable. Under PAYE, a person making 160K will pay no more than 14K/year toward loans. Toss another 6K/year into a savings account for the next 17 years and you will have saved 150K+ to cover for your forgiveness taxes. Not too bad if you ask me.
 
ya know, even though the air force HPSP kinda threw a monkey wrench in my career plans that i worked my ass off to get myself in the mix for, looking at those numbers make me feel like it isn't too bad. still owe 150k~ from undergrad + grad school, and gotta deal with military life, but with the astronomical costs of education nowadays, it could be worse.
 
You should compare private MD vs private DO debt.
 
Igor4sugry said:
[1] The next thing to look at is how much your loan will grow during residency.
Example of above with 336k graduating in 2013 & 5yr residency.
calculator: http://www.calculator.net/interest-calculator.html
You have a family, doing IBR with a very small payment.

Loan of $336k at 6.8% will generate interest of: $22,848/yr
-The small monthly payments you can afford towards interest will be negligible.
Just to pay 30% of that interest you will need to pay $571/mo (that is a lot of money with a family).
After 5yr residency total interest: $114,240.00

Total Loan balance at end of residency: $450,240.00

Going for PSLF is good, but you never know what job options will be at graduation time.


[2] This brings me to next point. Current osteopathic students are graduating with the largest debt. This poll shows about 43% graduating with >300k.
Yet osteopathic schools keep pushing for students to go into primary care, the lowest paid field. There is a growing disconnect (as always in academia vs marketplace) of what is told to students and what the reality is.
Current numbers (and tuition increase trends) suggest that the point where going into primary care is not a financially sound decision is very close or already here.

Of course, this information is not relayed to medical students. Counseling on minimizing and repaying student loans is done during last week of medical school. This is something that should be done during first year of medical school, not when the train has left the station.

The reality of high loan amounts and 6.8% interest debt has to be looked at by students with a rational mind. Decide how you want your next 20yrs out of medical school to be.

[3] Another example:
Case-1: student graduating with 300k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Residency 3yrs: Loan balance at end of residency: $365k
10YR repayment schedule: $4,096.00/mo
*lets say you are choosing to stay in a larger city (for many reasons e.g. family, friends, more fun), and can't find a PSLF job as there are many docs in these areas.
-Starting salary $160k ->monthly pay with 30% tax rate is $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $5,237/mo = ~85k/yr salary

Case-2: student graduating with 400k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Balance at end of residency: $487k
10YR repayment schedule: $5,604.00/mo
-Staring salary $160k ->monthly pay $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $3,729.00 = ~60k/yr salary

Most residents make more than in Case-1 & Case-2 with moonlighting.
Click to expand...


The hypocrisy of the osteopathic profession and the naïveté of academia.
 
It's good to get a range I suppose, but why not look at the CIB which lists average debt of 2013ers in all the DO schools? Also, if you take out 336k worth of loans that's your own fault. Don't act like people are bamboozled.
 
NontradCA said:
It's good to get a range I suppose, but why not look at the CIB which lists average debt of 2013ers in all the DO schools? Also, if you take out 336k worth of loans that's your own fault. Don't act like people are bamboozled.
Click to expand...

Not sure who you're referencing with this post, but 336k and up is not unheard of for many DO students. What other option is there if your school has sky high tuition other than not attend? I don't think it's wrong to act concerned or discontent with the prices these schools are asking for.
 
JeetKuneDo said:
Not sure who you're referencing with this post, but 336k and up is not unheard of for many DO students. What other option is there if your school has sky high tuition other than not attend? I don't think it's wrong to act concerned or discontent with the prices these schools are asking for.
Click to expand...

It's not wrong no, but with budgeting it's certainly not difficult to manage most DO schools without going over 300k in debt. The people with over 300k are the ones who are going into med school with debt already- I'm guessing over 50k. This can be avoided by going to a state school for undergrad, or working during it. Also, having roommates or a SO to mitigate costs also works. The tuition of DO programs are comparable with MD private schools.
 
NontradCA said:
It's not wrong no, but with budgeting it's certainly not difficult to manage most DO schools without going over 300k in debt. The people with over 300k are the ones who are going into med school with debt already- I'm guessing over 50k. This can be avoided by going to a state school for undergrad, or working during it. Also, having roommates or a SO to mitigate costs also works. The tuition of DO programs are comparable with MD private schools.
Click to expand...

What??? Not difficult to go over 300k? Are you nuts? Most places (MD and DO) are in the 30-50k range for tuition, then you add on 25k for living expenses... pretty soon we are talking real money. You don't just borrow the money at zero percent interest either. There are origination fees (4%) and the loan money starts accruing interest at 6-7% from day one. That new bill signed into law lowers it to like 5% or w/e but that's still high.

Any school not heavily subsidized is going to end up with a loan balance >300k by the end of school. That's not even up for debate. The average indebtedness for US MD students is like 180k, and that figure is dated. That figure WAY UNDERSTATES the economic reality because it includes 1) ethnic communities where parents pay for school (very prevalent in medicine) 2) rich people (lots of rich kids in medicine) who don't take out loans 3) weird states like texas.

You are engaging in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
 
Textbookversion said:
What??? Not difficult to go over 300k? Are you nuts? Most places (MD and DO) are in the 30-50k range for tuition, then you add on 25k for living expenses... pretty soon we are talking real money. You don't just borrow the money at zero percent interest either. There are origination fees (4%) and the loan money starts accruing interest at 6-7% from day one. That new bill signed into law lowers it to like 5% or w/e but that's still high.

Any school not heavily subsidized is going to end up with a loan balance >300k by the end of school. That's not even up for debate. The average indebtedness for US MD students is like 180k, and that figure is dated. Average WAY UNDERSTATES it though because it includes 1) ethnic communities where parents pay for school 2) rich people (lots of rich kids in medicine) who don't take out loans 3) weird states like texas.

You are engaging in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
Click to expand...

You can just go on any schools website and look up the budget per year, and most, which include everything you just said will add up to less than 300k. Also, if you look at the CIB the average debt for DO students is something like 200k, with 90+% receiving financial aid. I think there are a lot less rich students in DO schools than MD schools btw.
 
Coming out of the Navy and going to premed I have been calculating how much debt I will have from undergraduate and medical school (D.O) (Nova), and😱 I will be one of those people with over 300k in debt. Private schools are super expensive!
 
The financial planning department at my hospital said the average resident at my hospital, which is mostly us-MDs, has an average debt of 210k.
 
NontradCA said:
It's not wrong no, but with budgeting it's certainly not difficult to manage most DO schools without going over 300k in debt. The people with over 300k are the ones who are going into med school with debt already- I'm guessing over 50k. This can be avoided by going to a state school for undergrad, or working during it. Also, having roommates or a SO to mitigate costs also works. The tuition of DO programs are comparable with MD private schools.
Click to expand...

This simply isn't true anymore. As previously pointed out, exceeding 300k is not difficult at all if you're coming in with no debt. There was an interview posted on here many months ago about a MD student who came out with >300k at graduation even though he started debt-free (you're right it's not just DO students with these numbers). Even if you live frugally, it's not difficult at all with current tuition prices.
 
CityLights said:
This simply isn't true anymore. As previously pointed out, exceeding 300k is not difficult at all if you're coming in with no debt. There was an interview posted on here many months ago about a MD student who came out with >300k at graduation even though he started debt-free (you're right it's not just DO students with these numbers). Even if you live frugally, it's not difficult at all with current tuition prices.
Click to expand...

You have data to backup your argument??
 
NontradCA said:
You have data to backup your argument??
Click to expand...

Look at tuition for different schools. For example, CCOM is currently at 57k/year for tuition alone, and projects annual increases of 4-7%. With numbers like that, it would be difficult NOT to exceed 300k at the end of fourth year if you are financing everything with loans.
 
CityLights said:
Look at tuition for different schools. For example, CCOM is currently at 57k/year for tuition alone, and projects annual increases of 4-7%. With numbers like that, it would be difficult NOT to exceed 300k at the end of fourth year if you are financing everything with loans.
Click to expand...

🙄
 
If you think you could graduate with less than 300k with tuition at that level, with interests rates what they are... that means you would be living on less than 10k/year for living expenses. Probably not realistic for most people.
 
CityLights said:
If you think you could graduate with less than 300k with tuition at that level, with interests rates what they are... that means you would be living on less than 10k/year for living expenses. Probably not realistic for most people.
Click to expand...

You picked the most expensive school as an example, and told me to look stuff up after I had mentioned doing so and point out that MOST schools aren't like that. It comes down to what Jeet says- don't go there if you can't afford it. I mean realistically a person could get into one of the LECOMs if they could CCOM.
 
NontradCA said:
You picked the most expensive school as an example, and told me to look stuff up after I had mentioned doing so and point out that MOST schools aren't like that. It comes down to what Jeet says- don't go there if you can't afford it. I mean realistically a person could get into one of the LECOMs if they could CCOM.
Click to expand...

You just don't get it. Even at the cheapest schools, once you add in living expenses and start compounding interest it adds up fast. You can't just take cost of attendance and multiply by 4.

If you only borrow 50k in tuition and living expenses the first year (very very cheap school) that turns into 67k by the end of your 4 years. Compound interest adds up quickly.

I'd be willing to bet 300k is actually below average for MD c/o 2016 (let alone DO c/o 2016), for those taking out loans to fund their education and not using savings or outside sources of funding.

Also, all of this is pointless, because medicine is still a great gig. For example, that guy going into ortho. Not unusual to pull 400-600k a couple years out of fellowship... I think he'll be able to make his loan payments.
 
I understand that, the interest is the issue. That's even more reason to go to a cheaper school as 20k more per year over the life of the loan is going to turn into a lot.
 
Igor4sugry said:
[1] The next thing to look at is how much your loan will grow during residency.
Example of above with 336k graduating in 2013 & 5yr residency.
calculator: http://www.calculator.net/interest-calculator.html
You have a family, doing IBR with a very small payment.

Loan of $336k at 6.8% will generate interest of: $22,848/yr
-The small monthly payments you can afford towards interest will be negligible.
Just to pay 30% of that interest you will need to pay $571/mo (that is a lot of money with a family).
After 5yr residency total interest: $114,240.00

Total Loan balance at end of residency: $450,240.00

Going for PSLF is good, but you never know what job options will be at graduation time.


[2] This brings me to next point. Current osteopathic students are graduating with the largest debt. This poll shows about 43% graduating with >300k.
Yet osteopathic schools keep pushing for students to go into primary care, the lowest paid field. There is a growing disconnect (as always in academia vs marketplace) of what is told to students and what the reality is.
Current numbers (and tuition increase trends) suggest that the point where going into primary care is not a financially sound decision is very close or already here.

Of course, this information is not relayed to medical students. Counseling on minimizing and repaying student loans is done during last week of medical school. This is something that should be done during first year of medical school, not when the train has left the station.

The reality of high loan amounts and 6.8% interest debt has to be looked at by students with a rational mind. Decide how you want your next 20yrs out of medical school to be.

[3] Another example:
Case-1: student graduating with 300k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Residency 3yrs: Loan balance at end of residency: $365k
10YR repayment schedule: $4,096.00/mo
*lets say you are choosing to stay in a larger city (for many reasons e.g. family, friends, more fun), and can't find a PSLF job as there are many docs in these areas.
-Starting salary $160k ->monthly pay with 30% tax rate is $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $5,237/mo = ~85k/yr salary

Case-2: student graduating with 400k (6.8%) (43% of this poll is >300k)
Balance at end of residency: $487k
10YR repayment schedule: $5,604.00/mo
-Staring salary $160k ->monthly pay $9,333/mo
Monthly Salary - monthly loan payment = $3,729.00 = ~60k/yr salary

Most residents make more than in Case-1 & Case-2 with moonlighting.
Click to expand...

This is why HPSP should be a serious consideration.
 
To add fuel (and more concrete facts) to the fire

Here's USNews Ranking of Medical School, based on "Average indebtedness of 2011 graduates who incurred medical school debt"

There's a lot of private DO schools towards the top of the ranking, along with a handful of private MD schools. Something to consider for applicants when picking med schools (yes, private schools dominate the top, public schools are on the bottom, and some schools with large endowment can offer more scholarships than poorer schools, plus it doesn't take into account the number of kids who don't borrow for med school (ie parents, independently wealthy before going switching fields, MSTP/NIH scholarships, military scholarships, etc)

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ate-schools/top-medical-schools/debt-rankings
 
NontradCA said:
You can just go on any schools website and look up the budget per year, and most, which include everything you just said will add up to less than 300k. Also, if you look at the CIB the average debt for DO students is something like 200k, with 90+% receiving financial aid. I think there are a lot less rich students in DO schools than MD schools btw.
Click to expand...


Dude, tuition alone at many schools is ~50K. That means at graduation the debt from tuition alone would be ~240k with interest based on 7.35% interest. Then factor in taking out 20K+ for living. That's 336K at graduation. Some people will end up taking more than that, like 30K if they have unexpected expenses or live in places like NYC, etc.. That would be 383K at graduation. Then consider they end up in primary care, like family medicine: The interest over the next three years puts someone at 473K.
 
The reality is that even if you try to live cheap (roommates, eat crap food, don't get anything new) you may be able to reduce living expenses by say $5000/yr. But its not going to do anything significant to total debt load because the main driver of debt is tuition rather than living expenses.

Also, I feel that DO students have more debt because they are less likely to have parental financial support for med school; many are non-trads, etc.

The sad part is many of these DO schools charge crazy high tuition and yet provide sub-par education. For example they do all PBL or have ISP (independent pathway) basically no need to higher faculty and just let students learn on their own. These same DO schools, despite charging exorbitant tuition, provide sub-par rotations and don't pay their rotation sites anything and expect docs at small private hospitals to educate DO students. This does not exist in MD programs where they are all university affiliated and have very well planned and educational rotations. How many of you DOs have done a rotation at some tiny middle-of-no-where the only place to go is Walmart type of hospital, and there you just shadow the doc who is overworked and doesn't have much time for you anyway.
 
Igor4sugry said:
The reality is that even if you try to live cheap (roommates, eat crap food, don't get anything new) you may be able to reduce living expenses by say $5000/yr. But its not going to do anything significant to total debt load because the main driver of debt is tuition rather than living expenses.

Also, I feel that DO students have more debt because they are less likely to have parental financial support for med school; many are non-trads, etc.

The sad part is many of these DO schools charge crazy high tuition and yet provide sub-par education. For example they do all PBL or have ISP (independent pathway) basically no need to higher faculty and just let students learn on their own. These same DO schools, despite charging exorbitant tuition, provide sub-par rotations and don't pay their rotation sites anything and expect docs at small private hospitals to educate DO students. This does not exist in MD programs where they are all university affiliated and have very well planned and educational rotations. How many of you DOs have done a rotation at some tiny middle-of-no-where the only place to go is Walmart type of hospital, and there you just shadow the doc who is overworked and doesn't have much time for you anyway.
Click to expand...

Igor,

Your entire post hits the nail on the head, my friend. Thank you for posting.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: many of these DO schools should not exist. They are in large part a money-making scam, and they provide sub-par training in many cases.

As for the hyperinflated tuition that many of today's grads are dealing with, check this out:

http://www.archives.upenn.edu/histy/features/tuition/1960.html

It's an archive of tuition costs at UPENN (an Ivy League school--not some podunk DO school in the middle of nowhere). Check out 1965. According to this calculator:

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

The inflation-adjusted tuition at PENN today should be: ~11K.
Instead, it is ~47K.

I'd feel a lot better paying ~50K per year for an Ivy League school--and all of the associated benefits that come from attending a top institution--than I would for the "privilege" of being an AOA-trained family doc from DO-school-of-the-month.

Educational costs have become a total racket, and are driven-up (read: hyperinflated) because the fed gov't is handing out money like candy to educational institutions. This not only hyperinflates costs, but it allows schools to open at a rate that the market may not be able to sustain (see: Pharmacy, Law, Business school expansion). Many of the new schools offering these "degrees" (if you can call them that), are IMO nearly fly-by-night operations that are non-profit in name but functionally for-profit.

So what is the solution to all of this?

End the federal student loan program. That will cause tuition to drop through the floor and stop the rapid expansion of sub-par DO institutions.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...efends-eventual-end-to-federal-student-loans/
 
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I'm just a lowly premed in the early stages of my application cycle,

but holy ****. Every pre-med should read this. Total wakeup call. As someone interested in primary care and applying to schools mostly in the $40k+/year range, the HPSP emails getting shoved down my throat are looking better and better.
 
Mehd School said:
I'm just a lowly premed in the early stages of my application cycle,

but holy ****. Every pre-med should read this. Total wakeup call. As someone interested in primary care and applying to schools mostly in the $40k+/year range, the HPSP emails getting shoved down my throat are looking better and better.
Click to expand...

HPSP isn't worth it monetarily is what I hear. Basically you take up money on the front end while losing flexibility and private practice pay later on. May limit specialty options if you happen to be qualified later.
 
To you current DO students would you recommend this path? I was an imbecile at 18 which has resulted in a lot of academic remediation on my part. With DO grade replacement it makes medical school a feasible option for someone like me, attending my states allopathic school is out of the question. We have no DO schools.

I'm competitive for the in-state PA school which is cheap. It's about $34k for the degree without cost of living, I think I could minimize that since I have family all over this area. Is that a better move financially? I would prefer to be a physician, but to up-root my life only to be crushed with debt afterwards makes me really wonder if it's worth it. I would take the longer route if it paid off in the end, but this graph makes me not so sure. My undergrad debt is will be under $30k if that matters.
 
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Cmaj7th said:
To you current DO students would you recommend this path? I was an imbecile at 18 which has resulted in a lot of academic remediation on my part. With DO grade replacement it makes medical school a feasible option for someone like me, attending my states allopathic school is out of the question. We have no DO schools.

I'm competitive for the in-state PA school which is cheap. It's about $34k for the degree without cost of living, I think I could minimize that since I have family all over this area. Is that a better move financially? I would prefer to be a physician, but to up-root my life only to be crushed with debt afterwards makes me really wonder if it's worth it. I would take the longer route if it paid off in the end, but this graph makes me not so sure. My undergrad debt is will be under $30k if that matters.
Click to expand...

I know it sounds dumb, but you should be a doctor if you want to be a doctor. You shouldn't do it for financial reasons. The time commitment is insane and you'll be wasting the best years of your life if it's not something you really want to do. Med school + residency + fellowship is like 10 years of your life. All I do is go to work, eat, study a little bit and then fall asleep. I sleep on my days off. I have zero friends. I do have an amazing girlfriend, though. It kind sucks and it does feel like I'm wasting my life at times. I'll probably get a relatively high paying job, like 350k+, when I'm done with my training, but what am I going to do with that? Buy a nice bed to sleep in when I'm not working? I don't think being a doctor is worth it unless its something you really want to do.
 
cliquesh said:
I know it sounds dumb, but you should be a doctor if you want to be a doctor. You shouldn't do it for financial reasons. The time commitment is insane and you'll be wasting the best years of your life if it's not something you really want to do. Med school + residency + fellowship is like 10 years of your life. All I do is go to work, eat, study a little bit and then fall asleep. I sleep on my days off. I have zero friends. I do have an amazing girlfriend, though. It kind sucks and it does feel like I'm wasting my life at times. I'll probably get a relatively high paying job, like 350k+, when I'm done with my training, but what am I going to do with that? Buy a nice bed to sleep in when I'm not working? I don't think being a doctor is worth it unless its something you really want to do.
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What specialty are you training for?
 
Cmaj7th said:
To you current DO students would you recommend this path? I was an imbecile at 18 which has resulted in a lot of academic remediation on my part. With DO grade replacement it makes medical school a feasible option for someone like me, attending my states allopathic school is out of the question. We have no DO schools.

I'm competitive for the in-state PA school which is cheap. It's about $34k for the degree without cost of living, I think I could minimize that since I have family all over this area. Is that a better move financially? I would prefer to be a physician, but to up-root my life only to be crushed with debt afterwards makes me really wonder if it's worth it. I would take the longer route if it paid off in the end, but this graph makes me not so sure. My undergrad debt is will be under $30k if that matters.
Click to expand...

Go to the cheapest school you can get into.
 
JeetKuneDo said:
Not sure who you're referencing with this post, but 336k and up is not unheard of for many DO students. What other option is there if your school has sky high tuition other than not attend? I don't think it's wrong to act concerned or discontent with the prices these schools are asking for.
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One of the hospitalists who posts on SDN a lot....I think his name is BostonRedSox or something....he owed I believe ~450K at the end of residency training. He went to NYCOM.
 
Dr Dazzle said:
That's one year salary lost with no guarantee of any spot later. Think that over. Take what you get and move on. Bigger things to worry about.
Click to expand...

I've thought about it (many times) and factoring in:

that many schools cost 50K plus very high living expenses,
the capitalizing interest that begins on day one of med school and,
the psychological burden of very high debt

I maintain my advice.

Paying ~28K per year to attend LECOM Bradenton (and to LIVE in dirt cheap Bradenton)

is a great deal. You will end up paying twice as much to attend CCOM, George Washington, Albany, Western, etc....

Defer your acceptance and re-apply to LECOM.
 
If you enter a DO school with more than a $45,000/year tuition you are insane because that tuition will be much higher when you finish after 4 years (5 years for some poor bastards). It makes me wonder how a school like LECOM keeps costs down.

I do enjoy being called Dr. Poopy at work, however given the choice again I'd travel back in time and slap myself silly for even thinking about doing this. It takes utter commitment and there is no waxing and waning with this.

My loans generate about $2,000 in interest a month off $370,000 total. Even though I am supposedly on my way to making the big bucks there's no certainty with any of it. People drop like flies all the way through.
 
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