Downloading copyrighted material... be afraid

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LargeFarva said:
This. Ninety percent of the junk I download won't get watched or listened to more than once. If it's something I'll use regularly then I buy it but if I couldn't download then I'd still be broke.

The way I see it, they're making money because I wouldn't be throwing down twenties for movies I might like.
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GOAT avatar

GOAT tv show
 
MSU2009 said:
This.

Stop downloading movies that were just released to theaters or DVD. They only have so many resources, so most gets thrown at people pirating current media.
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In addition, there are sites where you can stream movies directly. So technically they can't get you because you are not downloading, I think.
 
Flamen04 said:
You should go out and see Horrible Bosses. Fantastic movie! 😀
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Hello... why go out and see it if we can download it for free? Wait a sec... based on the prevailing logic in this thread, if it's a good movie, does that mean we can't pirate it? 😕😕😕😕😕😕
 
NickNaylor said:
Cool story, bro. Pointing out logical fallacies but not addressing the fundamental points I raised. I like your style.
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Okay... I'll try again then.

Basically, the key difference is that the owner does not loose the thing you obtain illegitimately. If you steal a painting, or shoplift a CD, the rightful owner no longer has it to use, sell, or otherwise profit by.

Theft is not defined by its putative market consequences. (I.e. people not buying copies because they have illicit copies.)

That said, I do not think copyright infringement is a moral thing to do in most circumstances, but it's not theft or stealing. There are lots of immoral acts, why do you insist on calling copyright infringement "stealing"?
 
dbeast said:
Hello... why go out and see it if we can download it for free? Wait a sec... based on the prevailing logic in this thread, if it's a good movie, does that mean we can't pirate it? 😕😕😕😕😕😕
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You can choose to pirate whatever you want. I am not your mother.
 
Gnomes said:
Okay... I'll try again then.

Basically, the key difference is that the owner does not loose the thing you obtain illegitimately. If you steal a painting, or shoplift a CD, the rightful owner no longer has it to use, sell, or otherwise profit by.

Theft is not defined by its putative market consequences. (I.e. people not buying copies because they have illicit copies.)

That said, I do not think copyright infringement is a moral thing to do in most circumstances, but it's not theft or stealing. There are lots of immoral acts, why do you insist on calling copyright infringement "stealing"?
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Not sure what the bolded has to do with anything, but alright.

So your problem is a problem with semantics? Fine, then call it copyright infringement. Problem solved.
 
pirating a movie is like copying your friend's problem set, giving it back to him, and then both of you turning it in and getting credit.

real theft is like copying your friend's problem set, not giving it back to him, and only you turning it in and getting credit.

are they both immoral? yes. are the immorally equivalent? hell no.
 
NickNaylor said:
I'm not sure I understand: how is taking away the source of income - movie/music sales - for entire industries which employ MANY people, the majority of whom aren't the super rich artists, not theft?
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I understand this and this is the morally gray zone that I was referring to. But I ask myself, would I rather give 40 cents (or w/e percentage goes to actually paying those ppl's incomes you mention idk) or an entire dollar to charity. what I'm saying is if I'm gonna be altruistic, I'd rather have it all go to a deserving cause rather than some fraction.
 
You should just do it cause it

4chan-1306002454441.jpg
 
daymann said:
I understand this and this is the morally gray zone that I was referring to. But I ask myself, would I rather give 40 cents (or w/e percentage goes to actually paying those ppl's incomes you mention idk) or an entire dollar to charity. what I'm saying is if I'm gonna be altruistic, I'd rather have it all go to a deserving cause rather than some fraction.
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😕
 
NickNaylor said:
Horrible argument. You're implying that you wouldn't buy stuff you DID like because you would spend it on stuff you DIDN'T like. What would they care? They got your money anyway and would make the same money regardless.
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That's not what I said. I'm broke regardless of pirating. I wouldn't pay for a movie I've never seen because there's a good chance it sucks. That means I wouldn't buy any movies which is less than I buy now.

Trying to say that a movie downloaded a thousand times equals a thousand lost sales is a horrible argument.
 
NickNaylor said:
😕
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Okay phrasing was confusing. What I meant to say was would you rather spend a dollar on a song, have some of it go toward company profit, some go to ppl that don't need more money (overpaid artists), and some go to ppl who actually depend on the income, or donate the dollar to charity where the entire dollar is going to be put to good use?
 
but but but what if I just HAVE TO SEE that episode of Gilmore Girls?
JK

I know torrenting is wrong...but the truth is that I would not buy the material in any case. I also have no intention to distribute the material. And I'm the kind of guy who never seeds...I have limited my upload speeds to 0.0 kbs.



I'm not using this argument to say that torrenting isn't stealing - it is, but perhaps it's partially justifiable. There's an extremely low chance of getting warned by your ISP - and the benefits are that you can download pretty much anything, from university books to songs to movies to Rosetta Stone.
 
Call it what you want. Won't stop me from using Bittorrent.
 
daymann said:
Okay phrasing was confusing. What I meant to say was would you rather spend a dollar on a song, have some of it go toward company profit, some go to ppl that don't need more money (overpaid artists), and some go to ppl who actually depend on the income, or donate the dollar to charity where the entire dollar is going to be put to good use?
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Oh good, just because we think that the person is "overpaid," they shouldn't be compensated for their work?

I like where this is going.
 
NickNaylor don't you something to do? You're the most obnoxiously sarcastic person on sdn and you make it pretty obvious how huge your ego is (even though you think you hide it by so altruistically "helping" everyone one sdn by belittling them).
 
Whatyousay said:
Oh good, just because we think that the person is "overpaid," they shouldn't be compensated for their work?

I like where this is going.
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I said musical artists are overcompensated. NickNaylor didn't even argue with that. I never said they shouldn't be paid at all...
 
Neuroguy887 said:
NickNaylor don't you something to do? You're the most obnoxiously sarcastic person on sdn and you make it pretty obvious how huge your ego is (even though you think you hide it by so altruistically "helping" everyone one sdn by belittling them).
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jelly4.jpg
 
Oh, what if you just stop stealing and start buying? That may be crazy enough to work.
 
Neuroguy887 said:
NickNaylor don't you something to do? You're the most obnoxiously sarcastic person on sdn and you make it pretty obvious how huge your ego is (even though you think you hide it by so altruistically "helping" everyone one sdn by belittling them).
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oh-he-mad.jpg


You clearly can't see the ridiculous amount of PMs that I get and respond to in addition to the numerous threads where I do actually post real responses. You're just focusing on the threads I post in started by people too lazy to spend 3 minutes to find the information themselves.
 
MeowMeowCAT said:
I think nicknaylor is trying to out-troll flatearth.
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I know, I really think so... I'm disappointed a little. I wanted to respect him for having the courage to disagree with the majority opinion even when that means aligning himself with the forces of all that is uncool (RIAA et al), though.
 
Venom5 said:
but but but what if I just HAVE TO SEE that episode of Gilmore Girls?
JK

I know torrenting is wrong...but the truth is that I would not buy the material in any case. I also have no intention to distribute the material. And I'm the kind of guy who never seeds...I have limited my upload speeds to 0.0 kbs.
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What kinda guy watches the Gilmore Girls? And you don't seed your torrents...

🙁
 
Gnomes said:
I know, I really think so... I'm disappointed a little. I wanted to respect him for having the courage to disagree with the majority opinion even when that means aligning himself with the forces of all that is uncool (RIAA et al), though.
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Just so we're clear, the views on pirating that I expressed here are my own real opinions (i.e., I'm not trolling, though normally I wouldn't bother with this kind of thread). I still have yet to hear a convincing argument why it shouldn't be prosecuted.

So far I've heard:

-it's copyright infringement, not theft
-I download stuff to try it out first and then pay for it later (please)
-It's copying, not stealing
-No one loses anything by copying digital property
-Something about money going to charity
 
Venom5 said:
but but but what if I just HAVE TO SEE that episode of Gilmore Girls?
JK

I know torrenting is wrong...but the truth is that I would not buy the material in any case. I also have no intention to distribute the material. And I'm the kind of guy who never seeds...I have limited my upload speeds to 0.0 kbs.

I'm not using this argument to say that torrenting isn't stealing - it is, but perhaps it's partially justifiable. There's an extremely low chance of getting warned by your ISP - and the benefits are that you can download pretty much anything, from university books to songs to movies to Rosetta Stone.
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Goddamn leechers....
NickNaylor said:
Just so we're clear, the views on pirating that I expressed here are my own real opinions (i.e., I'm not trolling, though normally I wouldn't bother with this kind of thread). I still have yet to hear a convincing argument why it shouldn't be prosecuted.

So far I've heard:

-it's copyright infringement, not theft
-I download stuff to try it out first and then pay for it later (please)
-It's copying, not stealing
-No one loses anything by copying digital property
-Something about money going to charity
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Add one more to the list: Sharing is caring.
 
Pirating movies is a essentially a gray area in my opinion.

If it's a new film currently in theaters, it's theft.

If the film is already out on DVD,then it's a little more complicated. If I purchase a DVD and let my friend borrow it, watch it, and return it back to me, is that considered theft? After all, I paid for and therefore I own that specific copy. I think that's essentially what pirating movies is, just in a larger scale. Whether or not that's still theft is up to you.

Of course if they're burning their copy and selling it, that's theft because that person is robbing the production companies of potential profit from their own product.
 
I'll provide two devils advocate situations.

What happens if you buy a DVD of a movie but proceed to lose it? Are you then justified in downloading it from bittorrent sources? Suppose the quality you download is DVD quality.

Also, what if you buy the DVD but want to download the Bluray version? Say you have a DVD player but your computer can play HD stuff. Would your support of the actors/studio by purchasing the DVD suffice in that situation, or do they deserve an additional cut by you purchasing the Bluray too?
 
sector9 said:
I'll provide two devils advocate situations.

What happens if you buy a DVD of a movie but proceed to lose it? Are you then justified in downloading it from bittorrent sources? Suppose the quality you download is DVD quality.

Also, what if you buy the DVD but want to download the Bluray version? Say you have a DVD player but your computer can play HD stuff. Would your support of the actors/studio by purchasing the DVD suffice in that situation, or do they deserve an additional cut by you purchasing the Bluray too?
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Speaking for myself only and morally not legally, I think it would be justified the the first case, and not justified in the second - the Bluray is a different product. But it's pretty fuzzy.
 
I will just keep my Netflix account and say good day to you sir...
 
sector9 said:
I'll provide two devils advocate situations.

(1) What happens if you buy a DVD of a movie but proceed to lose it? Are you then justified in downloading it from bittorrent sources? Suppose the quality you download is DVD quality.

(2) Also, what if you buy the DVD but want to download the Bluray version? Say you have a DVD player but your computer can play HD stuff. Would your support of the actors/studio by purchasing the DVD suffice in that situation, or do they deserve an additional cut by you purchasing the Bluray too?
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(1) For number 1, I suppose you might have a moral (but not legal) justification for torrenting, since you've technically already purchased the product, but at the same time, it's not the studio's fault that you lost the DVD. By the same logic, if we go to McDonald's and drop our food on the ground after we receive it, is the restaurant obligated to provide us with a replacement meal? Anyways, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that most people who rip things off the Internet haven't gone and purchased the items that they're torrenting.

(2) The Blu-Ray and DVD versions of the movie should be considered separate entities. Unfortunately, you'll essentially be paying for the content twice, but since there's no way to upgrade DVD-quality to Blu-Ray quality, it is what it is.
 
NickNaylor said:
I'm not sure I understand: how is taking away the source of income - movie/music sales - for entire industries which employ MANY people, the majority of whom aren't the super rich artists, not theft?

Gnomes: no you're not physically stealing anything via pirating, but you're depriving people of their incomes via sales of a product or providing a service, which is the end result of traditional theft. The two aren't distinguishable to the people that work in the industry. Why is it wrong to steal from a shop owner that makes his living from selling physical objects while it's acceptable to steal from an industry that thrives off of selling digital products? Even more, I'm assuming you would think stealing a physical painting from an artist's workshop would be wrong. What's the difference other than the format of the stolen good?
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I neither participate in nor condone pirating, but both sides have rational arguments. However Nick, what you're saying is the same illogical BS being put out by media companies. They have been assuming that torrenting = lost sales even though most surveys have revealed that 90% of people wouldn't have bought the product anyways even if they had the money.
 
sector9 said:
I'll provide two devils advocate situations.

What happens if you buy a DVD of a movie but proceed to lose it? Are you then justified in downloading it from bittorrent sources? Suppose the quality you download is DVD quality.

Also, what if you buy the DVD but want to download the Bluray version? Say you have a DVD player but your computer can play HD stuff. Would your support of the actors/studio by purchasing the DVD suffice in that situation, or do they deserve an additional cut by you purchasing the Bluray too?
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1. I would say tough luck. I mean just because I lose something I purchased doesn't mean I'm entitled to get a new one for free. It's my own fault for losing it.

2. Well blu-rays cost more than the regular DVD and so the quality is something you generally pay more for. Just because I already paid for the lower quality product doesn't mean I should get the upgrade for free.
 
ElCapone said:
I neither participate in nor condone pirating, but both sides have rational arguments. However Nick, what you're saying is the same illogical BS being put out by media companies. They have been assuming that torrenting = lost sales even though most surveys have revealed that 90% of people wouldn't have bought the product anyways even if they had the money.
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Prove to me how a company doesn't lose sales if someone who must normally PURCHASE something instead pays NOTHING for it. What people would or wouldn't do even if they had the money isn't relevant. Even by your own statistic (which is probably made up) the media companies are still losing a significant amount of money.
 
ElCapone said:
I neither participate in nor condone pirating, but both sides have rational arguments. However Nick, what you're saying is the same illogical BS being put out by media companies. They have been assuming that torrenting = lost sales even though most surveys have revealed that 90% of people wouldn't have bought the product anyways even if they had the money.
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I like the part where we don't care about intellectual property rights.
 
NickNaylor said:
Prove to me how a company doesn't lose sales if someone who must normally PURCHASE something instead pays NOTHING for it. What people would or wouldn't do even if they had the money isn't relevant. Even by your own statistic (which is probably made up) the media companies are still losing a significant amount of money.
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Yeah, explain that one to me, too. The "I wouldn't of bought it in the first place" argument is a stupid argument that shouldn't have any weight in this argument.:laugh: 99% of people wouldn't buy a ****ing hyndai accent, but of course they'd take it if it was free. Does that mean you'd steal cars for a living if it were as easy to do? I mean, you weren't going to buy that car in the first place...so it's cool, right? You're just trying it out... 🙄 I agree with NickNaylor. If you're gonna do it, fine, but don't try to say that what you're doing is justified or not illegal. 👎
 
Are these your actual views people? Or are you just siding with the pro-piracy stance to spite NickNaylor?
 
Kaustikos said:
99% of people wouldn't buy a ****ing hyndai accent, but of course they'd take it if it was free. Does that mean you'd steal cars for a living if it were as easy to do? I mean, you weren't going to buy that car in the first place...so it's cool, right? You're just trying it out... 🙄
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It's not analogous... scarcity in intellectual property is artificial, not natural.

It's like you had some kind of science-fiction duplicating gun. You see a car you like, press "scan", then go home and reconstitute a duplicate of the car.

It's still pretty unethical under most circumstances, but is it theft? No.

How "easy" it is doesn't enter into it at all, nor does how the enforcement works.
 
Gnomes said:
It's not analogous... scarcity in intellectual property is artificial, not natural.

It's like you had some kind of science-fiction duplicating gun. You see a car you like, press "scan", then go home and reconstitute a duplicate of the car.

It's still pretty unethical under most circumstances, but is it theft? No.

How "easy" it is doesn't enter into it at all, nor does how the enforcement works.
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It is theft... and it's just utterly mind-boggling how many people on here don't believe it is.👎
 
Just to throw some info out there,

NPR did a segment a couple weeks back on how much it cost to roll out a song


http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-hit-song?print=1


its interesting to see were a lot of the money goes.


My view on things as a musician whose had his experience with small tours and albums:

If a band sets it up so you can download their stuff, great. If not, buy the CD. If you want to share the band to someone, send the way of the website or let them listen to a sample.

/musician's bias
 
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