Drama in Research Lab

[GlobalDomination]

So for the past month my PI gave me the task to learn synthesis and make a small molecule compound. I have failed many times but I've made progress with every failure. Then, I had experienced a family issue recent and my PI told me to hold off working on this project for a week or two until I feel better. It turns out that my fellow undergrad lab mate (we started at the same time but he rarely cared/showed up until recently) found out that I was on a break on this project and decided to try to steal this project away from me. Of course my PI told me about this. How should I confront him on this? or should I just ignore this for now?

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[GrapesofRath]

IT's all between you and your PI to sort this out. Confrontation with that student does nothing but harm. I have no idea what it meant your PI told you about this; did he say this is unacceptable I will end this or did he say it in the manner and tone of "someone has decided to take your spot on this project". If its the former the PI will sort this out. If its the latter find another project/lab.

 

[CaliforniaDreamer]

So you had one project for a month that you consistently couldn't do, and then stopped work on it entirely. Seems like about the time someone else should try to get it done??

 

[chemist16]

Why would your PI tell you about this? Did he assign the project to the other person? In my experience, people don't just take up someone else's project without their PI's blessing. Also, collaboration isn't a bad thing. If the two of you can figure it out, it'll be for the better. And when you do, you'll get the project done at twice the speed and get it to publication that much faster.

 

[gyrfalcon]

The cold truth: the primary purpose of a research lab is to research. That is how the lab gets the grants it needs to continue. Teaching you something or providing you with a research experience is secondary, even when the lab is at a university.

It is completely normal for PIs to switch people between projects if progress is not being made. Don't take it personally - everyone has their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to lab techniques. Talk to your PI and see what he wants you to do now. You could offer to work with the other student. As chemist16 said, collaboration in the lab is a good skill to learn. There is also no real harm in checking out a different lab if this one isn't working for you for whatever reason. Undergraduates at my university often try working in a few labs before they find one that clicks with them. Good luck.

 

[mathnerd88]

Not to be mean, but I've been in research for a long time (about 6 years.) I've noticed that most college students who do research don't have really good lab skills anyways, so this is expected. My PI always brings college students to gain experience in her lab each summer and every time I have to fix their experiments or clean up the messes they make. They're all inexperienced and the risk is too high for the PI to trust a major experiment using them.

Don't worry, your PI probably didn't give you an important project to do, and is most likely secondary to their research. Most of the important work goes to the graduate and/or PhD or postdoctorate students.

 

[chemist16]

Not to be mean, but I've been in research for a long time (about 6 years.) I've noticed that most college students who do research don't have really good lab skills anyways, so this is expected. My PI always brings college students to gain experience in her lab each summer and every time I have to fix their experiments or clean up the messes they make. They're all inexperienced and the risk is too high for the PI to trust a major experiment using them.

Don't worry, your PI probably didn't give you an important project to do, and is most likely secondary to their research. Most of the important work goes to the graduate and/or PhD or postdoctorate students.

It really depends on the PI and how long OP has been in that lab. Also on the PI's opinion of the student. My PI expects me to work at a grad student level so I have my own projects. But summer people in my lab have smaller, insignificant projects that are designed to help them learn the techniques.

 

[GrapesofRath]

IF you are getting moved off a project due to your own performance and your PI isn't throwing you onto another project of somewhat comparable nature I would give consideration to moving on to a new lab. Because once you have the reputation in your lab as someone who has struggled to do things effectively, it is hard to change that and for you to be given the opportunity to produce anything meaningful. At the very least it will take alot longer as you have to prove yourself again then it would if you didn't have that reputation(which won't be thrown onto you at the start in a new place).

 

[enchantediris]

Is this small molecule compound something that is often made in the lab (so you could gain experience), or something that is new (that would be useful to your PI)? If it's the former, it could just be that the other undergraduate in the lab also wants experience in wet lab techniques, which is nothing against you. In any case, you should probably clarify with your PI!

 

[mathnerd88]

It really depends on the PI and how long OP has been in that lab. Also on the PI's opinion of the student. My PI expects me to work at a grad student level so I have my own projects. But summer people in my lab have smaller, insignificant projects that are designed to help them learn the techniques.

The OP only just finished his freshman year at college. My PI expected me to work at a graduate student level because I was in lab for already a couple months in the summer and continued to do research for the next year while I was a senior.

What was your research on?

 

[chemist16]

IF you are getting moved off a project due to your own performance and your PI isn't throwing you onto another project of somewhat comparable nature I would give consideration to moving on to a new lab. Because once you have the reputation in your lab as someone who has struggled to do things effectively, it is hard to change that and for you to be given the opportunity to produce anything meaningful. At the very least it will take alot longer as you have to prove yourself again then it would if you didn't have that reputation(which won't be thrown onto you at the start in a new place).

Just a little nuance about synthesis - the greatest synthetic chemists fail many times before achieving their synthesis. It doesn't necessarily have to do with technique and it's very different from biology where positive and negative results tell you something significant if you have a good hypothesis. In synthesis, stuff goes wrong and you have troubleshoot it multiple times (and a single month is hardly enough time to achieve any decent synthesis that hasn't been done before) before you get it right. In fact, once you achieve your synthesis, you're 50% of the way to publication.

The OP only just finished his freshman year at college. My PI expected me to work at a graduate student level because I was in lab for already a couple months in the summer and continued to do research for the next year while I was a senior.

What was your research on?

Hmmm might just be the school I'm at then. I started research with a professor during my freshman summer and now I'm in a different lab, but both expected grad student-quality work from me (after I'd spent a couple weeks learning the techniques, of course). My research right now is in organometallic chemistry.

 

[mathnerd88]

Just a little nuance about synthesis - the greatest synthetic chemists fail many times before achieving their synthesis. It doesn't necessarily have to do with technique and it's very different from biology where positive and negative results tell you something significant if you have a good hypothesis. In synthesis, stuff goes wrong and you have troubleshoot it multiple times (and a single month is hardly enough time to achieve any decent synthesis that hasn't been done before) before you get it right. In fact, once you achieve your synthesis, you're 50% of the way to publication.



Hmmm might just be the school I'm at then. I started research with a professor during my freshman summer and now I'm in a different lab, but both expected grad student-quality work from me (after I'd spent a couple weeks learning the techniques, of course). My research right now is in organometallic chemistry.

Ahh that's pretty cool. My research is more on the biology side of things and mechanisms of drug interaction.

 

[lumpyduster]

I agree with @chemist16. It depends on the reaction, but we have a particular protocol in our lab that's very person dependent. It's a well-established protocol, but everyone has to figure out what works for them. If it's a finicky reaction, getting the same outcome to repeat twice, even with the same set of hands, is not always possible because you can't perfectly control all the variables.

The small experience I have with molecular bio is that, especially with kits, these techniques have been so well-established that you just need to follow the directions to get results.

 

[Dreamstoo]

So you had one project for a month that you consistently couldn't do, and then stopped work on it entirely. Seems like about the time someone else should try to get it done??

Agreed OP, this is what I think as well.

 

[chemist16]

Agreed OP, this is what I think as well.

Keep in mind this is organic synthesis, not molecular biology. If you can achieve a synthesis in a month, you'd be one of the best organic chem researchers in the world.

 

[Affiche]

This thread made me painfully aware of how not seriously I take my research.

If I was failing at something for a month and it was reassigned to someone else, my response to that person would be "cool, thanks for taking one for the team".