Dropped out of post-bac...do I still have a chance?

[noleknight16]

Right, I don't want to be awful here. But you won't get any looks with a 2.6 from PhD programs in psych.

Truth is that id say you're locked into DO atm.

I can honestly say that the best for you would be to take some time.
Claim to mature and have some experiences through some volunteering and maybe work. retake biochem somewhere and ace it.

And then apply after doing well on your Mcat.

I think that is how you'll win this race.

Just realize it's not a sprint.

This guy right here has the correct answer. You need time and lots of it to reconcile the GPA and buff extracurriculars. You must show you've turned things around and squash the inevitable red flags on your app. Then after you turn things around you must knock that MCAT out of the park. There's no room for error anymore.

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[danielbryanheel]

Hi guys,

Minor update:

Re-taking 15 hrs (G.chem 1, phys. 1, orgo. 1, psychology, and english) at a local CC this Spring semester and looks like I will earn somewhere between a 3.8-4.0 pending finals, mainly.

My overall cgpa and sgpa should be around 3.15 and 3.10 as a result.

Where should I re-take Biochem as I am still not sure whether the one I took at LECOM post-bac is considered undergraduate or graduate? I was thinking about re-taking it at a local university during the summer since the CC does not offer the course as it is higher-level. Is this a good idea?

Am also planning on re-taking the MCAT in August or September.

Thanks!

 

[NontradCA]

Hi guys,

Minor update:

Re-taking 15 hrs (G.chem 1, phys. 1, orgo. 1, psychology, and english) at a local CC this Spring semester and looks like I will earn somewhere between a 3.8-4.0 pending finals, mainly.

My overall cgpa and sgpa should be around 3.15 and 3.10 as a result.

Where should I re-take Biochem as I am still not sure whether the one I took at LECOM post-bac is considered undergraduate or graduate? I was thinking about re-taking it at a local university during the summer since the CC does not offer the course as it is higher-level. Is this a good idea?

Am also planning on re-taking the MCAT in August or September.

Thanks!

I don't think you can replace a graduate level course with an undergraduate one, but I could be wrong. What is your MCAT score now? I'd say apply this round with an updated MCAT and if you don't get in, do something else and forget medicine. Dropping out of that postbacc program hurt you a lot.

 

[danielbryanheel]

So, the Biochem taken at LECOM was a graduate level course?

Current MCAT score is a 20 (7,6,7). So, I would still have a below average gpa and MCAT.

Also, which MCAT prep course is better: Princeton or Kaplan?

 

[GypsyHummus]

So, the Biochem taken at LECOM was a graduate level course?

Current MCAT score is a 20 (7,6,7). So, I would still have a below average gpa and MCAT.

Also, which MCAT prep course is better: Princeton or Kaplan?

I thought for LECOM program u needed a 23 mcat to get interview

 

[danielbryanheel]

Yes you do (or the equivalent on the new exam) as far as I know.

At the time, I was planning on studying for it this past winter break for the January administration had I gotten through the first semester at LECOM.

 

[Abraxas65]

So, the Biochem taken at LECOM was a graduate level course?

Current MCAT score is a 20 (7,6,7). So, I would still have a below average gpa and MCAT.

Also, which MCAT prep course is better: Princeton or Kaplan?

I dont think there really is a "better" one especially given the new test this year. I personally like Kaplan and it has worked for me in the past. I would spend a little bit of time looking at what each one offers, the cost and local availability and go with which ever you feel better with. IMO any of the top MCAT programs can help you get a better score if you put the time and effort in.

 

[diesel2101]

If you're retaking your basic science gen eds, there's probably no reason for a review course. I took my MCAT while taking gen chem and orgo and that along with Berkeley Review was plenty.

 

[IslandStyle808]

There is no room for error now OP as other people have mentioned. However, I know of a couple cases that withdrew from formal post-baccs and actually got into medical school ( both MD! ). They had to go through at least 2-3 years of reinvention to do this.

 

[danielbryanheel]

Thanks for sharing that, IslandStyle...that's really good to hear!

 

[danielbryanheel]

Just received my grades for the Spring 2015 semester: 4.0 GPA

The courses that I took/retook were Phys. 1, G. Chem 1, Orgo. 1, English 1, and Intro to Psychology.

Current cgpa and sgpa including the "WF" in Biochem: 3.08 and 3.02.

Any ideas on what I should do during the summer and then Fall?

Thanks guys.

 

[Dreamstoo]

That's quite an improvement. OP I wish you the best of luck

 

[danielbryanheel]

Thanks, Dreamstoo!

Any opinion on what I should do now?

 

[danielbryanheel]

Leaning towards taking the MCAT in September. Gonna take a MCAT prep course from late-Mayish to Augustish...

Is this a good idea?

Any and all input/advice is very much appreciated!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Leaning towards taking the MCAT in September. Gonna take a MCAT prep course from late-Mayish to Augustish...

Is this a good idea?

Any and all input/advice is very much appreciated!

Congrats on the grade improvement! Are you applying for the 2016-2017 cycle? If so, I think that would be a good idea to take it in September 2015 and then submit in May 2016. If your grade improvements stay at the same standard as this semester, then you should be good for the following cycle (with a good MCAT of course).

 

[danielbryanheel]

Update:

Summer 2015:

2 courses @ C.C. (6 semester hours)=4.0

Fall 2015:

5 courses @ Uni. (15 semester hours)=3.4 (2 A's (1 science and 1 non-science)), 3 B's (all upper-level science))

cgpa~3.3
sgpa~3.2

MCAT 20.
-haven't had time to re-take since creating this thread
-will re-take in April

Am I looking up? Please be honest

Thanks!

 

[adrian710]

Hello all,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this...if not, then I apologize.

I dropped out of LECOM's post-bac program earlier this fall due to family problems which were affecting me bigtime, and received a grade of "WF" in biochem as a result. My cgpa and sgpa are 2.97 and 2.93, respectively. Will dropping out or the "WF" be considered a "red flag?"

Also, since I dropped out of this program, do I still have a shot at getting into an osteopathic medical school next cycle or the cycle after? Or am i doomed?

My plan was to re-take 15-18 hours worth of classes this spring at a local CC to raise my gpa. Then, re-take the MCAT in early summer 2015. Then, to go from there..

My dream is to become a physician, and I will do whatever it takes...so please give me some good advice

Edit: I did complete a SMP in 2012-2013 and received a gpa of 3.6.

Thanks all!

Kinda off topic... how was LECOM's program? What stats got you in there?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Update:

Summer 2015:

2 courses @ C.C. (6 semester hours)=4.0

Fall 2015:

5 courses @ Uni. (15 semester hours)=3.4 (2 A's (1 science and 1 non-science)), 3 B's (all upper-level science))

cgpa~3.3
sgpa~3.2

MCAT 20.
-haven't had time to re-take since creating this thread
-will re-take in April

Am I looking up? Please be honest

Thanks!

3 Bs in upper level sciences does not bode well, but its not a death sentence, and a 3.3-3.2 GPAs is right around where you want the minimum GPA to be for DO school.

OP, I don't know if this was mentioned to you but, deff look into podiatry schools.

 

[mathnerd88]

The 20 MCAT score is not a good sign...Given that the new MCAT is much harder than the old one, and there's a lot of biochem emphasis on it, you would at least need a 505 (preferably 509) or higher to solidify your chances into medical school.

 

[j4pac]

Thanks for the advice.

I took the post-bacc to avoid re-taking the MCAT. LECOM has a deal in which if one achieves a 3.0 or higher in the program, then one is guaranteed acceptance into the DO program, basically. The SMP I was in did not have such a linkage agreement.

I am not ready to give up on my dream of becoming a pathologist just yet, but I guess I will have to at least consider other options

I still think you are toast...OP. But since you have invested so much time, all you have at this point to lose is more money and time. But if you don't match next cycle...move on.

 

[darkeon]

another career I've heard of is the pathologist assistant programs which are Master's level. More or less same pre-reqs as premed and GRE/MCAT accepted. 1-2 year program but very less than 10 programs in the country.
Whatever you do, good luck.

 

[Goro]

Not with that MCAT score. You're at a major risk for failing out of med school or failing boards. You also need to be acing coursework now, not B'cing it.

I strongly suggest a different career.

Update:

Summer 2015:

2 courses @ C.C. (6 semester hours)=4.0

Fall 2015:

5 courses @ Uni. (15 semester hours)=3.4 (2 A's (1 science and 1 non-science)), 3 B's (all upper-level science))

cgpa~3.3
sgpa~3.2

MCAT 20.
-haven't had time to re-take since creating this thread
-will re-take in April

Am I looking up? Please be honest

Thanks!

 

[IslandStyle808]

Update:

Summer 2015:

2 courses @ C.C. (6 semester hours)=4.0

Fall 2015:

5 courses @ Uni. (15 semester hours)=3.4 (2 A's (1 science and 1 non-science)), 3 B's (all upper-level science))

cgpa~3.3
sgpa~3.2

MCAT 20.
-haven't had time to re-take since creating this thread
-will re-take in April

Am I looking up? Please be honest

Thanks!

The trend needs to be stronger. It is good that your GPA is higher, but you need to do more to show you are a changed person. Get those GPAs above 3.4 in one go and retake the MCAT (shoot for at least 504). Then you should be ready.

 

[danielbryanheel]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Based on the responses:

I'm just going to plan on doing EVERYTHING I can to be ready for the 2016-2017 app cycle (especially the new MCAT (504-505) and GPAs 3.4 by June hopefully)...then apply early and see what happens.

IF next cycle doesn't turn out well, then I'll probably go into podiatry or Path. assistant b/c I'm 27 and need to find something soon if medicine (D.O.) is not for me.

I plan on studying a good deal for ~4 months for the April 23rd MCAT, while significantly altering what I think I did "incorrectly" the first couple of times.

 

[mathnerd88]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Based on the responses:

I'm just going to plan on doing EVERYTHING I can to be ready for the 2016-2017 app cycle (especially the new MCAT (504-505) and GPAs 3.4 by June hopefully)...then apply early and see what happens.

IF next cycle doesn't turn out well, then I'll probably go into podiatry or Path. assistant b/c I'm 27 and need to find something soon if medicine (D.O.) is not for me.

I plan on studying a good deal for ~4 months for the April 23rd MCAT, while significantly altering what I think I did "incorrectly" the first couple of times.

Do you have any clinical experience? How about shadowing or DO letter?

Also, know that doing a lot of retakes may look bad to an adcom. As someone said before, these retakes aren't used as a 'keep trying again and again without any repurcussions.' Maybe it'll be fine with 2 or 3 classes but anything past that, adcoms will doubt your ability to succeed in medical school. You don't get to take extra years off while in med school to 'retake classes.'

Also, I believe you would need a much higher score than a 504 on your MCAT to convince adcoms you're ready. Dropping out of a postbacc program is a HUGE red flag. With all those retakes and extra classes you should be able to ace that MCAT and get at least a 510.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Based on the responses:

I'm just going to plan on doing EVERYTHING I can to be ready for the 2016-2017 app cycle (especially the new MCAT (504-505) and GPAs 3.4 by June hopefully)...then apply early and see what happens.

IF next cycle doesn't turn out well, then I'll probably go into podiatry or Path. assistant b/c I'm 27 and need to find something soon if medicine (D.O.) is not for me.

I plan on studying a good deal for ~4 months for the April 23rd MCAT, while significantly altering what I think I did "incorrectly" the first couple of times.

I would not do path assistant, as you will always be wondering and salty about not being able to do real path.

Also, look into the other healthcare fields. Are you a people person? Optometry or physical therapy might be a good avenue to explore. Hate people but want to make a lot of money while still helping said people? Look in pharmacy. Heck, most pharm programs don't even require the PCAT anymore, and many places (if you can get a job) pay 110K+. Just be careful bout the student loans, and for goodness sakes, do everything you can to get into a state school.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. One thing is for certain, get them As! a 3.4 will sit you pretty at any professional school, with the exception of MD.

 

[danielbryanheel]

Do you have any clinical experience? How about shadowing or DO letter?

Also, know that doing a lot of retakes may look bad to an adcom. As someone said before, these retakes aren't used as a 'keep trying again and again without any repurcussions.' Maybe it'll be fine with 2 or 3 classes but anything past that, adcoms will doubt your ability to succeed in medical school. You don't get to take extra years off while in med school to 'retake classes.'

Also, I believe you would need a much higher score than a 504 on your MCAT to convince adcoms you're ready. Dropping out of a postbacc program is a HUGE red flag. With all those retakes and extra classes you should be able to ace that MCAT and get at least a 510.

I have some hours volunteering in a hospital and a couple of clinics (~150) and have some research experience (3 months during summer of 2010).
I also shadowed a family doc in 2014 for around 6 hours who I was able to obtain a LOR from.

This may sound cliche, but I will try my best on the MCAT and see what happens. Hopefully, as you said, I ace it because of my past shortcomings.

However, if I end up lower, then I will gauge from there obviously based on how much lower.

Also, next semester, the plan is to take mostly new upper-level science (4/5 of 6 classes, for example) because I am almost "out" of F/D/C science coursework I can retake. Therefore, I have no other choice to raise the GPA still further it seems.

I would not do path assistant, as you will always be wondering and salty about not being able to do real path.

Also, look into the other healthcare fields. Are you a people person? Optometry or physical therapy might be a good avenue to explore. Hate people but want to make a lot of money while still helping said people? Look in pharmacy. Heck, most pharm programs don't even require the PCAT anymore, and many places (if you can get a job) pay 110K+. Just be careful bout the student loans, and for goodness sakes,

Also, look into the other healthcare fields. Are you a people person? Optometry or physical therapy might be a good avenue to explore. Hate people but want to make a lot of money while still helping said people? Look in pharmacy. Heck, most pharm programs don't even require the PCAT anymore, and many places (if you can get a job) pay 110K+. Just be careful bout the student loans, and for goodness sakes, do everything you can to get into a state school.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. One thing is for certain, get them As! a 3.4 will sit you pretty at any professional school, with the exception of MD.

Please elaborate on the bolded above? Is it the low tuition? Or inability to find a job afterwards?

And good point about the path assistant bit.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Please elaborate on the bolded above? Is it the low tuition? Or ability to find a job afterwards?

And good point about the path assistant bit.

Both! tuition for pharmacy school is becoming super dangerous, and many of the private schools have poorer job placement rates.

I know a lady in a lab I worked in who is finishing up her last year of pharmacy school. she took out 240k in student loans and is trying to find a job! Assuming she gets a job that pay around 110K (the average) and once uncle sam has his cut, she will prolly be bringing home round 70K. 70K vs 240K w/intrest is a mathematical uphill battle. I mean, if you live off of 20K a year for 6 years, you might be able to pay it off.

 

[danielbryanheel]

So, which plan of attack sounds "better" for Spring 2016 (for those who think I can get in for D.O. c/o 2021):
Goal is to apply during the 2016-2017 cycle to many D.O. schools and maybe I.S. M.D. schools.

1). Take 15-18 units of upper-level science (retakes and new courses) and ace them all. Take MCAT in August/September. Apply late September/early October.

or

2). Retake ~6 units of science and study for MCAT in April/May? Apply June/July.

Any input is of course very much appreciated!

 

[tunicaexterna]

@danielbryanheel

I was verified by mid October for DO and I'm really sweating right now. I have 1 II, 2 rejections and 7 silences. I know everyone says the DO cycle runs later but it really behooves you to apply earlier. Seriously.

What would be your new gpa if you only retook 6 credits and took the mcat in april/may?

 

[xstetsonx]

Apply late September/early October.

Apply as early as possible. AACOMAS will take a while to verify your primary. Then you also have to wait a week or so for adcom to send you secondary. Even if you pre-write your secondary, your application is not gonna be in the early cycle.

 

[IslandStyle808]

@danielbryanheel

I was verified by mid October for DO and I'm really sweating right now. I have 1 II, 2 rejections and 7 silences. I know everyone says the DO cycle runs later but it really behooves you to apply earlier. Seriously.

What would be your new gpa if you only retook 6 credits and took the mcat in april/may?

Unfortunately they are basing this off of previous cycles. This cycle has, by far, been the most brutal. My responses back have been a whole month longer than last cycle.

The new early next cycle will be before early July (sending primary). The new late will be mid November (completion of secondary). This is if applications increase next cycle.

 

[danielbryanheel]

What would be your new gpa if you only retook 6 credits and took the mcat in april/may?

cgpa~3.4
sgpa~3.3

 

[danielbryanheel]

but it really behooves you to apply earlier.

Apply as early as possible

The new early next cycle will be before early July (sending primary). The new late will be mid November (completion of secondary). This is if applications increase next cycle.

Thanks for the replies. Will do my best to send the primary before July next cycle, assuming 'decent' stats.

 

[danielbryanheel]

OP, I don't know if this was mentioned to you but, deff look into podiatry schools.

I have been looking into podiatry. However, ALL 9 of the programs are not even remotely close to where I live (central gulf coast region). This could potentially pose an issue because I would like to stay as close to home as possible due to family, friends, etc.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I have been looking into podiatry. However, ALL 9 of the programs are not even remotely close to where I live (central gulf coast region). This could potentially pose an issue because I would like to stay as close to home as possible due to family, friends, etc.

Meh, you'll be fine.

 

[yanks26dmb]

I have been looking into podiatry. However, ALL 9 of the programs are not even remotely close to where I live (central gulf coast region). This could potentially pose an issue because I would like to stay as close to home as possible due to family, friends, etc.

I wish you the best of luck, but honestly, you're fighting an impossible fight in applying to MD; completely forget about that 100%. As far as DO goes, I think it's a 1 in 10,000 shot..and thats assuming you raise your MCAT ~+8 points. Not an easy feat.

If you want to be a doctor, and don't mind feet, go to pod school. I have a friend there now and he really likes it a lot. Again, I wish you the best of luck and I don't mean to be a dick, but you've got to grow up and decide if you want to be a doctor or if you want to stay close your family and friends forever. You're not exactly in a position to be picky.

 

[darkeon]

As far as DO goes, I think it's a 1 in 10,000 shot..and thats assuming you raise your MCAT ~+8 points.

By his current gpa alone, I wouldn't say 1/10000 (unless I'm a naive premed) but agreed that the mcat has to go up to a much more acceptable range. OP should also not lack on the ECs.

OP, consider podiatry only after having shadowed a podiatrist. The career is a good back up only if you find yourself content In the field (filled with feet)!

 

[adrian710]

You need a 26+ MCAT and you have a shot I think. Hope you have great EC's and a DO LoR as well.

 

[yanks26dmb]

By his current gpa alone, I wouldn't say 1/10000 (unless I'm a naive premed) but agreed that the mcat has to go up to a much more acceptable range. OP should also not lack on the ECs.

OP, consider podiatry only after having shadowed a podiatrist. The career is a good back up only if you find yourself content In the field (filled with feet)!

current GPA is just barely average and below average (at some schools). With his 20 MCAT, he has 0%....maybe I was a bit harsh saying 1/10000, but given everything that's been said in this thread, I just don't see him raising his GPA to a point that will make up for the failed post-bacc. In all honesty, he probably needs a solid 30 something to do that..and even then, it may not work.

 

[adrian710]

By his current gpa alone, I wouldn't say 1/10000 (unless I'm a naive premed) but agreed that the mcat has to go up to a much more acceptable range. OP should also not lack on the ECs.

OP, consider podiatry only after having shadowed a podiatrist. The career is a good back up only if you find yourself content In the field (filled with feet)!

Agreed. OP GPA is fine (3.2 right?) but MCAT is horrid. Needs a 26-28 min. Especially with his post-bacc mess.

 

[darkeon]

current GPA is just barely average and below average (at some schools). With his 20 MCAT, he has 0%....maybe I was a bit harsh saying 1/10000, but given everything that's been said in this thread, I just don't see him raising his GPA to a point that will make up for the failed post-bacc. In all honesty, he probably needs a solid 30 something to do that..and even then, it may not work.

I did forget about the post Bach mess up from the first post. Yeah... Mcat score is going to have to go much higher and a way to eloquently recognize the poor decision making when asked in interviews.

 

[darkeon]

Agreed. OP GPA is fine (3.2 right?) but MCAT is horrid. Needs a 26-28 min. Especially with his post-bacc mess.

Higher I'd dare say with that post Bach/ SmP-like? Hiccup. Your proposed Mcat numbers would be adequate for anyone just doing grade replacement recovering from undergrad grades but this isn't the case.

 

[adrian710]

Higher I'd dare say with that post Bach/ SmP-like? Hiccup. Your proposed Mcat numbers would be adequate for anyone just doing grade replacement recovering from undergrad grades but this isn't the case.

Understood but he did perform in SMP well so he shows that he is capable

 

[darkeon]

Understood but he did perform in SMP well so he shows that he is capable

But the accomplishment got belitttled when he failed out of the post bacc afterward. I think you and I are being the more optimistic ones here but even if someone like Goro says no chance then well...

Time off and working in the medical field might be something good to do. I always feel that "time served" is a good thing (except in cases like getting 50 years for a 5oz marijuana bust) growth and maturity reflects well over time and more positively. This recent meshap is just too out there and scandalous like Steve Harvey and Miss Universe. Take it far back in your past as you possibly can. (Fyi..harvey supposedly will host miss uni again next year)

 

[samac]

I would call you done when you went from CC work to university work and a 4.0 to a 3.4, B's in upper level science courses are not a help.
I'm not going to say you're up the creek without a paddle but you only have 1 and it's broken and there's a surprise waterfall at the end of the creek.

I do wish you the best though.

 

[mathnerd88]

Understood but he did perform in SMP well so he shows that he is capable

But the accomplishment got belitttled when he failed out of the post bacc afterward. I think you and I are being the more optimistic ones here but even if someone like Goro says no chance then well...

Time off and working in the medical field might be something good to do. I always feel that "time served" is a good thing (except in cases like getting 50 years for a 5oz marijuana bust) growth and maturity reflects well over time and more positively. This recent meshap is just too out there and scandalous like Steve Harvey and Miss Universe. Take it far back in your past as you possibly can. (Fyi..harvey supposedly will host miss uni again next year)

The problem isn't his "stats." The problem is that there are many more applicants than medical schools have spots for who don't have OP's mess and are safer to accept than the OP, which is risky.

A low MCAT score, and a dropped out postbac? That's a recipe for disaster for medical students.

Unless OP has something significant to offer over other applicants, I would say his chances are less than 1% of an acceptance.

 

[j4pac]

The problem isn't his "stats." The problem is that there are many more applicants than medical schools have spots for who don't have OP's mess and are safer to accept than the OP, which is risky.

A low MCAT score, and a dropped out postbac? That's a recipe for disaster for medical students.

Unless OP has something significant to offer over other applicants, I would say his chances are less than 1% of an acceptance.

And I think that you would be right. If he/she failed out of a post-bachelors program designed to demonstrated medical competence...if I was a ADCOM, no chance that I would accept him/her. I would rather go with unknown versus someone who has already demonstrated that they can't handle medical school curriculum. I'm pretty sure his/her chance are a heck of a lot closer to 0% than 1%. I would move on.

 

[IslandStyle808]

In OPs case, he did well in his first SMP and withdrew the second (this is not a classic failure). I don't believe his chances are 0%. However, he really is facing an uphill battle. He will need to radically increase his GPA and increase that MCAT score. Otherwise, his chances will really be zero.

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

I have a tendency to worry about things more than I should which interferes which my academics.

OP, wherever you end up devoting your time and energy and whichever career path you end up choosing (medicine or alternative) please please work on life skills the same time you try to improve your resume. MCAT, GPA bump, school apps, while all important are all temporary; The ability to manage life and seek fulfillment will stay with you forever. I imagine it is already stressful enough to come to terms with poor decisions and a bleak road ahead should you choose to continue with your medical dream. So start slow, don't try to do everything all at once. Work hard, and be patient. Wish you all the best.