Dropping like flies

[InfiniVet]

So far, our class has had 4 drop outs, 2 deferrals, and its not even 2nd year yet.
One of em sent out a class wide email today, saying she won't return for the 2nd year because she found herself not wanting to go to school anymore, period.

Hey, I certainly don't feel like going to school anymore either (especially after first year, lol...) but I'm not just gonna drop out like that.

How is it that people work so hard to get in, and then just drop out? Has anyone else's class had drop outs yet?

I totally understand deferring. One of the girls in our class is 48 years old single mom with an adopted 8 year old schizophrenic son, and is the sole caretaker of her mom who had a massive stroke halfway through the 1st semester. I'd defer in a heartbeat too!
But, "I dont feel like going to school anymore, I think I just won't"? That kinda sucks because she took someone else's seat.

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[clawsbeatskin]

Hmmmm....maybe this situation is a product of TAMU's narrow-minded, numbers-focused, unholistic admission process. It doesn't surprise me.

 

[chris03333]

Hmmmm....maybe this situation is a product of TAMU's narrow-minded, numbers-focused, unholistic admission process. It doesn't surprise me.

No it is reality hitting. Happens at many schools.

That was a really harsh statement

 

[VAgirl]

I also think it's misguided to say they "took someone else's seat" just because they didn't make it through the program. They earned that seat. They deserved it. Then life changed and they realized they needed to/wanted to make a different choice. No one should begrudge them that right, given that if anyone else had gotten that seat and gone through a similar change of heart, they should also have the right to make whatever changes are needed. Sans guilt trip. Life throws curves. Or sometimes people realize things they didn't know before. Or realize things they knew before but couldn't bring themselves to face. It happens, we're all real humans.

 

[Bill59]

It's not uncommon for a class to have 2-4 drop outs, usually during the first year. You usually figure out pretty quick if this something you really don't want to do. And TAMU has what, 130 students? So on a percentage basis, that's not that far out of line.

Admission committees try really hard to admit students that know what they're getting into, really want it, and can handle the load. But they're not 100%.

 

[theunraveler]

So far, our class has had 4 drop outs, 2 deferrals, and its not even 2nd year yet.
One of em sent out a class wide email today, saying she won't return for the 2nd year because she found herself not wanting to go to school anymore, period.

Hey, I certainly don't feel like going to school anymore either (especially after first year, lol...) but I'm not just gonna drop out like that.

How is it that people work so hard to get in, and then just drop out? Has anyone else's class had drop outs yet?

I totally understand deferring. One of the girls in our class is 48 years old single mom with an adopted 8 year old schizophrenic son, and is the sole caretaker of her mom who had a massive stroke halfway through the 1st semester. I'd defer in a heartbeat too!
But, "I dont feel like going to school anymore, I think I just won't"? That kinda sucks because she took someone else's seat.

thats nothing...my class started off with 127 students at year 1 by end of year 1 only 118 remained...by end of year 2 i'm predicting at least 3 more will drop out

 

[Hollycozza]

yeah, we probably have about 80 of the original 120 that started with us, now that we're in final year! Quite a lot of the ones we lost are in the year below though now, and we gained some from the year above.

But maybe we have more dropping back in Australia because our degree is an undergrad one.....

We lost one of our American students after about 2 weeks because she had never not looked after her three year old full time before and he wasn't coping with her being at uni. It must have been a hard decision after moving to Australia to study. But unexpected things happen I guess.

 

[Electrophile]

We started with like 75ish and are now around 66/67 or so, I think, after just finishing first block of second year. Some because of grades (I've heard Mizzou is one of the few schools that actually fails or "Ds" people out, is this true?), one because of cheating, others because of either personal health/stress problems or health in the family problems. I feel personally like I'm on a big tall roller coaster and it's already made it over the crest of the first hill and just started accelerating down. Can't stop now!!

Although I swear, I still have people ask me and my husband, "so when are you guys going to have kids?" Yeah, cause right now would be a FABULOUS time for us to have kids! I've worked at a local church doing childcare twice a week for nearly 6 years. I get my kid fix in there, thanks!

 

[alliecat44]

In my class, I think we started wth 106. After first semester, one person failed out and one person had to leave and come back next fall due to personal reasons. This semester, I don't think we've lost anyone.

However, we had three transfer students join our class second semester. Rumor is that 9 of the people a year ahead of us failed pharmacology. Most are going to start second year again with my class in the fall. Rumor is that five people were also thrown out for cheating in pharmacology. They've already accepted a few more transfer students into our class, though. Again, RUMOR is that our class now has 117 (!!!) people, which means we've actually GROWN. Weird.

And KSU definitely fails people out/ D's people out. Not on purpose--there's no "quota" of people they have to fail--but if you earn a D or an F, then that's it. Repeating is an option for some students.

 

[ri23]

Ohio fails people out. I believe that we started the year with 142 and I think we now have 139/140. One was for personal reasons - and they are coming next year and I believe one person failed a class this past quarter.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

And KSU definitely fails people out/ D's people out. Not on purpose--there's no "quota" of people they have to fail--but if you earn a D or an F, then that's it. Repeating is an option for some students.

Yep, same here. An F in a core course and you're out. An F in a elective or track and you're on very tight probation. Three Ds in one semester and you're out. Losing a few people every year, whether they return with the next class, defer, or just plan don't come back, is pretty common, if not the norm.

Hmmmm....maybe this situation is a product of TAMU's narrow-minded, numbers-focused, unholistic admission process. It doesn't surprise me.

Damn, I agree with chris03333...what's with the harshness here?

 

[tastrophe]

(I've heard Mizzou is one of the few schools that actually fails or "Ds" people out, is this true?)

you mean there *are* vet schools that won't fail people out? Everyone gets a C or D regardless how poorly they do? I mean, I think that throwing someone out for a single F or D is a bit much, but to keep passing people that don't make the grade is a whole lot worse. And I know that it happens in a lot of professional/grad schools, but I guess I just didn't think it would be like that in vet school too

Can anyone shed some light on this? please PM me if you'd rather not post publicly...

 

[InfiniVet]

At TAMU you are allowed to get a maximum of 2 'D''s and 1 'F' the entire 4 years. NO other combination is accepted. 3 D's? You're out.

Having been through the admissions process with 6 schools around the nation, I can comfortably say TAMU cannot be singled out as a "narrowed minded unholistic school". Ragging on my school only makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. I get that pre-vets get frustrated with the admissions process, but don't act like you know my school well enough to criticize it for people dropping out. Unfounded and way harsh.

Yeah, I get that people bail out for various reasons, and admissions cannot perfectly predict who will be able to stick it out, but MAN...10% failing rate over 4 years??? Thats uh...scary. I hope I don't become one of those statistics!

Reading the student's email of "I dont think I wanna go to class anymore, I think I just won't?" What a cop out. What a ***** thing to do. That's just laziness. And if you weren't gonna put in the full effort, if you weren't truly committed, how is that not stealing someone else's seat? Sure that person qualified to get in, but took away an equally qualified but dedicated person's seat. And what a way to say goodbye. Its almost like inviting other students to do the same...like suggesting we're all suckers for bothering to go to class everyday? It's certainly not very encouraging to say the least.

I don't know. It just bothered me.

 

[CookieBear]

Regardless of the student's email to her class regarding her reasons for leaving the school...

I think a little understanding and reserve from judgement is warranted. Who knows the personal facts, and the feelings, or any other reasons involved. If she has realized that vet school isn't for her - for whatever reasons - at least she may have the opportunity to pursue something else now, and not later on, after more hardship, loans, time, etc.

There are so many factors in someone's life, and I wouldn't expect to see an entire story or reason(s) emailed to a class. You never know what the future may bring for yourself, or anyone else. A little humanity, a little understanding, whether or not you agree or disagree with someone's publicized reasons, would be appropriate and/or considerate, IMHO. No one is perfect, and we all make mistakes.

 

[alliecat44]

Right on, Cookie. Couldn't agree more.

(P.S. My mom's in town, but I'm dying to hear about your externship! Can I call you Wednesday?)

 

[PiddlingFish]

Regardless of the student's email to her class regarding her reasons for leaving the school...

I think a little understanding and reserve from judgement is warranted. Who knows the personal facts, and the feelings, or any other reasons involved. If she has realized that vet school isn't for her - for whatever reasons - at least she may have the opportunity to pursue something else now, and not later on, after more hardship, loans, time, etc.

There are so many factors in someone's life, and I wouldn't expect to see an entire story or reason(s) emailed to a class. You never know what the future may bring for yourself, or anyone else. A little humanity, a little understanding, whether or not you agree or disagree with someone's publicized reasons, would be appropriate and/or considerate, IMHO. No one is perfect, and we all make mistakes.

Exactly.

I was the fourth person to leave Penn's V'11 class. Why? I had solely wanted to be a vet my entire life, but during that first year, I realized that it actually wasn't for me. There was a different aspect of wildlife that I wanted to go into and it wouldn't cost me $40k in loans each year to get there. It was in my best interest to leave after one year and get into a more specialized program that wouldn't leave me homeless.

 

[cyrille104]

Exactly.

I was the fourth person to leave Penn's V'11 class. Why? I had solely wanted to be a vet my entire life, but during that first year, I realized that it actually wasn't for me. There was a different aspect of wildlife that I wanted to go into and it wouldn't cost me $40k in loans each year to get there. It was in my best interest to leave after one year and get into a more specialized program that wouldn't leave me homeless.

I didn't realize you had left for good. Sorry to hear that you had to suffer through all of that and then decide not to do it. Good luck in the future, though.

 

[PiddlingFish]

I didn't realize you had left for good. Sorry to hear that you had to suffer through all of that and then decide not to do it. Good luck in the future, though.

Everyone at Penn was great. I'll definitely miss everyone.

 

[CookieBear]

Exactly.

I was the fourth person to leave Penn's V'11 class. Why? I had solely wanted to be a vet my entire life, but during that first year, I realized that it actually wasn't for me. There was a different aspect of wildlife that I wanted to go into and it wouldn't cost me $40k in loans each year to get there. It was in my best interest to leave after one year and get into a more specialized program that wouldn't leave me homeless.

I wish you the very best, Piddling.

 

[InfiniVet]

Ok Cookie, I can see that you're right, and I'm feeling the compassion towards her now

 

[clawsbeatskin]

Having been through the admissions process with 6 schools around the nation, I can comfortably say TAMU cannot be singled out as a "narrowed minded unholistic school". Ragging on my school only makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. I get that pre-vets get frustrated with the admissions process, but don't act like you know my school well enough to criticize it for people dropping out. Unfounded and way harsh.

For the record, I, too, have been through the admissions process with a variety of schools. I am quite comfortable with my opinion, and feel that it is warranted given my personal experiences. I'm not "ragging" on "your" school. I do know your school well enough. Class of '04. And before you say I cannot possibly know enough about the CVM, let's just say I have oodles of friends in your class and those above you. I know just as much about the dropout situation as you, and possibly more. I have worked closely with your faculty. Faculty who share my opinion and are working very hard to change admission policies.

Totally founded, maybe a little harsh, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Oh, and I'm not pre-vet. I'm a vet student.

 

[InfiniVet]

Oh, but not one at TAMU. Got it.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

zzzing...Jeez, as soon as Colorado catches a break with the "delete thread" button, we start going after TAMU

Clawsbeatskin, how does their application process relate to the number of dropouts/deferrals (which is pretty average for all schools) in your opinion? Do you think that by accepting or not accepting certain people, a school will increase it's dropout rates? With the exception of a school that accepted everyone who vaguely wanted to go - which isn't the case anywhere; that would certainly have a greater weed-out ratio.

 

[alliecat44]

Oh, but not one at TAMU. Got it.

What does that have to do with anything besides just being snotty?

Everybody has different experiences, after all. Sounds like clawsbeatskin's opinions are well-informed, at the very least. First comment did sound unduly harsh and judgemental (and perhaps still is), but sounds like she's got the inside scoop (albeit correct? incorrect? who of us can say?).

Guys, please be nicer to each other! We're all going to be colleagues.

I second Whtsthefrequency's questions and am curious to know! I know there's supposedly a big move by the AVMA to revamp the admissions process nationwide--however slow that may be. I think it's an interesting topic.

 

[VAgirl]

In the spirit of discussion rather than argument, I would think that a more narrow-minded, GPA/GRE focused admissions process might, if anything, slightly lower drop-out rates during the earlier, academic-heavy years of vet school, but possibly increase them during later years of school. Or in the first years of practice.

 

[chris03333]

I think one should not speak about drop out rates as a "vet student" until they have actually started vet school. You REALLY do not know what vet school is like until you are there.

That is all I will say on this matter.

 

[hoodle]

In the spirit of discussion rather than argument, I would think that a more narrow-minded, GPA/GRE focused admissions process might, if anything, slightly lower drop-out rates during the earlier, academic-heavy years of vet school, but possibly increase them during later years of school. Or in the first years of practice.

This makes sense to me - you're selecting for academically-minded people who can succeed in exams, which should help with the classwork in the earlier years, but does not account for the more hands-on experiences of the latter years, which some academic superstars might find insufferable. This would be interesting to examine - there must be data on this!

 

[chibry]

Infinitivet, I can tell your maturity is lacking, you dont know the situation so don't make judgements. 'It's a p*ssy thing to do' shows the kind of person you really are, I wish the world were more understanding and less judgemental. She had her reasons to drop out, it could be for any reason - stress, depression, private issues, who knows - but stuff maybe she did not want to broadcast. Think for a minute unless you know this person and you know her exact reasons.

 

[StealthDog]

I admire those who have the courage to realize that vet med is not for them before they've gone through school and started their career. I'd argue that it's easier for many people to stick it out for four years hoping things will click, rather than facing the difficult truth that it's just not the right path.

 

[JerseyLynn]

In my class, I think we started wth 106. After first semester, one person failed out and one person had to leave and come back next fall due to personal reasons. This semester, I don't think we've lost anyone.

However, we had three transfer students join our class second semester. Rumor is that 9 of the people a year ahead of us failed pharmacology. Most are going to start second year again with my class in the fall. Rumor is that five people were also thrown out for cheating in pharmacology. They've already accepted a few more transfer students into our class, though. Again, RUMOR is that our class now has 117 (!!!) people, which means we've actually GROWN. Weird.

Can you tell me where the transfer students came from? I didn't get into Kansas, and it doesn't look like I'll be getting off the waitlist elsewhere. I'm wondering if I don't get into school next cycle, and went to Ross or SGU, did great, could I transfer? I have a feeling it's not to well known how to transfer once you're down there.

 

[WannaFixFounder]

Can you tell me where the transfer students came from? I didn't get into Kansas, and it doesn't look like I'll be getting off the waitlist elsewhere. I'm wondering if I don't get into school next cycle, and went to Ross or SGU, did great, could I transfer? I have a feeling it's not to well known how to transfer once you're down there.

You can transfer from the Caribbean. Each US school has different policies. I came down here with the intent of transferring, but now, unless I get a good oppurtunity (won't have to repeat classes, etc), I'm happy to stay in the Caribbean. It is *only* 2 years, and it's going quick.

 

[rexosaurus]

Wait, What? It is only 2 years? How does that work? First year in class, second year in a hospital? Do you still get all the information that is usually crammed into 4 years? I'm confused....

 

[JerseyLynn]

Wait, What? It is only 2 years? How does that work? First year in class, second year in a hospital? Do you still get all the information that is usually crammed into 4 years? I'm confused....

Ross students go year round, with 2-3week breaks inbetween semesters, which makes it close to 2 & 1/2 years and then they do their clinical in the states for another year.
SGU takes the same amount of time as students that go to US schools.
WFF: I'm glad to hear that you're having a good experience at Ross. I bet a lot of other people go down there with the same intention and end up staying because they are having such a good experience.

 

[twelvetigers]

You don't get summers off, just a week here and there - so it's like a trimester system. There are 10 total semesters with three a year. The last 2-3 semesters are spent doing clinical rotations. This section is not done at Ross because, for one, there isn't a sufficient amount of people seeking vet care for their pets on the island to have a normal setup. Instead, Ross students will choose/be accepted to attend (not sure the logistics) one of the 28 U.S. schools for their final year of study. Not all schools will take Ross students (OKSU does and that's all I know) and I'm not sure about foreign schools either.

So, it's more than 2 years overall, but only 2 years (ish) on the island.

 

[alliecat44]

Can you tell me where the transfer students came from? I didn't get into Kansas, and it doesn't look like I'll be getting off the waitlist elsewhere. I'm wondering if I don't get into school next cycle, and went to Ross or SGU, did great, could I transfer? I have a feeling it's not to well known how to transfer once you're down there.

Most of our transfer students come from SGU. My understanding is that the SGU curriculum is closely modeled after the KSU curriculum, which means minimal repeating of courses for those students who transfer here. (At least, that's what my roommate--doing his clinical year here after three years at SGU--says.) I know Ross students have also transferred in, but I'm not sure how many semesters they end up having to repeat.

I know the three folks who transferred into my class this year kept it a secret from their friends that they were even applying to transfer so as to keep the competition down. (They REALLY wanted to transfer.) I get the feeling the whole thing is kinda hush-hush, too.

 

[JerseyLynn]

Ross students will choose/be accepted to attend (not sure the logistics) one of the 28 U.S. schools for their final year of study. Not all schools will take Ross students (OKSU does and that's all I know) and I'm not sure about foreign schools either.

quote]
23 Vet schools now take Ross students, but I hear it's based on your GPA where you get to go.

 

[twelvetigers]

Well that's a pretty good number of schools. Improves your chances of getting to choose one you'd like, if you have the GPA to back it up. I know some of our 4th years from Ross are lost lost lost all the time, but most of them seem to really know what they're doing. It could always just be a personality thing with the confused ones, but there's usually at least one a year that never loses the face.

 

[rexosaurus]

Huh, that's interesting. So, I wonder if it is easier to get into you "top choice" school (for clinical years) if you go to Ross or SGU first, then transfer, assuming the "top choice" is on the list that takes transfers.

For those applicants that have less than stellar stats, that may be something to really think about!