Dual Degrees and Residency Placement

[Maryslittlelamb]

Does anyone have any insight on how a dual degree (specifically MD/MPH) could be beneficial for matching into a residency program?

Do you think it would go into consideration that the student got 2 degrees in 4/5 years, while getting good grades, getting good step 1 score etc... and that this might help to get a good residency over someone who had the same stats but didn't complete a dual degree?

I've also read that a MPH can cut down on the number of years one would spend in some residencies (like FM, Peds). any comments?

Thank you!

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[mmmcdowe]

Certain degrees could potentially hurt you (MBA-phobia in a few academic programs) and may be of aid to you during residency (MPH in a research heavy residency), but ultimately those second degrees are much more useful in terms of your career goals than your residency goals. Also note that you can sometimes get a MPH or other degree during residency/fellowship, and it is often much cheaper and less time consuming to do so.

 

[sotto voce]

Certain degrees could potentially hurt you (MBA-phobia in a few academic programs) and may be of aid to you during residency (MPH in a research heavy residency), but ultimately those second degrees are much more useful in terms of your career goals than your residency goals. Also note that you can sometimes get a MPH or other degree during residency/fellowship, and it is often much cheaper and less time consuming to do so.

How is this normally accomplished? Residency sounds like it will be busy enough as is. And I despise any online coursework, so I wouldn't be interested in an online MPH. I don't see getting a full graduate degree during residency would be possible/human/sane.

Also, my top choice school offers an MPH between the two clinical years, is that a good time to get it? Or will I lose a lot of knowlege between M3 and M4 if I'm away from it for a year? Or possibly, will I go crazy with the relatively light courseload of an MPH program, compared to medical school? Thanks.

 

[Nymphicus]

How is this normally accomplished? Residency sounds like it will be busy enough as is. And I despise any online coursework, so I wouldn't be interested in an online MPH. I don't see getting a full graduate degree during residency would be possible/human/sane.

Also, my top choice school offers an MPH between the two clinical years, is that a good time to get it? Or will I lose a lot of knowlege between M3 and M4 if I'm away from it for a year? Or possibly, will I go crazy with the relatively light courseload of an MPH program, compared to medical school? Thanks.

 

[sotto voce]

Did I miss something? I'm not saying an MPH will be easy, but think about going through the first two years of med school, and then the first clinical year which I've heard is very hard. Go from that, to a traditional master's program. It won't be easy (I have 48 hours of graduate work, I should know) but the point is it might be a big difference from med school. Maybe not, though.

 

[Nymphicus]

Did I miss something? I'm not saying an MPH will be easy, but think about going through the first two years of med school, and then the first clinical year which I've heard is very hard. Go from that, to a traditional master's program. It won't be easy (I have 48 hours of graduate work, I should know) but the point is it might be a big difference from med school. Maybe not, though.

Well, the MPH that you'd be doing in medical school is most likely the accelerated professional track (1yr instead of regular 2). So it's not quite traditional. Also, assuming that you are completing an MPH for your career, this is the time to get good at stats, network, find mentors in the field in what you want to research in, publish publish publish, and also finish or continue research that you started earlier in medical school.

So yeah, it might be "lighter" or "easier", or at least more regularly scheduled than third year rotations, but if you're doing what you should be doing, I don't see how you could "go crazy from easiness."

Cue the

 

[Guero]

How is this normally accomplished? Residency sounds like it will be busy enough as is. And I despise any online coursework, so I wouldn't be interested in an online MPH. I don't see getting a full graduate degree during residency would be possible/human/sane.

Also, my top choice school offers an MPH between the two clinical years, is that a good time to get it? Or will I lose a lot of knowlege between M3 and M4 if I'm away from it for a year? Or possibly, will I go crazy with the relatively light courseload of an MPH program, compared to medical school? Thanks.

The Executive Director of our Institute of Internal Medicine and Public Health, himself holding an MPH, (emphatically) advised me against pursuing an MD/MPH dual program as part of medical school, as it most often comes with heavy tuition, requires loans for living expenses, and consumes time often before you know whether or not that career path is genuinely a good fit for you. He added that the residency programs offering MPHs will pay your tuition, provide you with a PGY stipend, and are often designed to foster the career plans you've developed throughout residency. (Meaning the MPH comes after residency, like Vandy's: https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/mph/about-program.)

 

[Perrotfish]

Does anyone have any insight on how a dual degree (specifically MD/MPH) could be beneficial for matching into a residency program?

Do you think it would go into consideration that the student got 2 degrees in 4/5 years, while getting good grades, getting good step 1 score etc... and that this might help to get a good residency over someone who had the same stats but didn't complete a dual degree?

I've also read that a MPH can cut down on the number of years one would spend in some residencies (like FM, Peds). any comments?

Thank you!

The only way an MPH would cut down on the length of time you spend in a residency or fellowship would be if they required you to get an MPH. To the best of my knowledge that only applies for an adult Infectious diseases fellowship.

I have been told that getting an MPH helps you in the match, but I have never been able to confirm it in any kind of statistical, quantificable way.

If you decide to do an MPH program, particularly a 4 year MD/MPH program, I stronly recommend you start the summer before med school starts and plan on taking classes the summer between first and second year. You want to take as few additional classes during your second year of medical school as possible.

 

[drizzt3117]

Certain degrees could potentially hurt you (MBA-phobia in a few academic programs) and may be of aid to you during residency (MPH in a research heavy residency), but ultimately those second degrees are much more useful in terms of your career goals than your residency goals. Also note that you can sometimes get a MPH or other degree during residency/fellowship, and it is often much cheaper and less time consuming to do so.

I don't think having a MBA will hurt you at any program, especially at academic programs considering the increased emphasis on reimbursements and coding and amounts of administrative duties in academic faculty positions.

I think the only degree that really makes a substantiative impact on your residency applications is a phd, though.

 

[drizzt3117]

Mph can shorten the length of a preventative medicine residency.

The only way an MPH would cut down on the length of time you spend in a residency or fellowship would be if they required you to get an MPH. To the best of my knowledge that only applies for an adult Infectious diseases fellowship.

I have been told that getting an MPH helps you in the match, but I have never been able to confirm it in any kind of statistical, quantificable way.

If you decide to do an MPH program, particularly a 4 year MD/MPH program, I stronly recommend you start the summer before med school starts and plan on taking classes the summer between first and second year. You want to take as few additional classes during your second year of medical school as possible.

 

[Perrotfish]

Mph can shorten the length of a preventative medicine residency.

Good info, I did not know that. I do know it definitely doesn't do anything for Peds, Internal Medicine, Surgery, Ob/GYN, or EM.

 

[DocMom1]

Actually, pursuing a second degree may very well hurt your chances of matching into a residency of your choice.

AAMC match data (https://www.aamc.org/students/downlo...ngoutcomes.pdf), suggest that for most specialties, the percentage of unmatched seniors who have another graduate degree is higher than the percentage of unmatched seniors who do not have another graduate degree. This seems counterintuitive, and I have yet to figure out why this is, but it's what the data say (take a look for yourself).

 

[doctoroftha313]

Actually, pursuing a second degree may very well hurt your chances of matching into a residency of your choice.

AAMC match data (https://www.aamc.org/students/downlo...ngoutcomes.pdf), suggest that for most specialties, the percentage of unmatched seniors who have another graduate degree is higher than the percentage of unmatched seniors who do not have another graduate degree. This seems counterintuitive, and I have yet to figure out why this is, but it's what the data say (take a look for yourself).

I doubt that a second degree actually HURTS your chances of matching. If I were to take a guess, I would say the reason for this discrepancy is because people who have other graduate degrees tend to have those degrees to remediate a less-than-stellar GPA from college to get accepted to medical school (ie. BMS Programs/Other Masters Programs). I'm sure there are others who are getting MPH/MBA/PhDs during med school, but the vast majority of people with another graduate degree probably fall into this GPA remediation category. And this doesn't apply to anyone on an individual basis, but I would guess that, as a whole, people who needed to pursue a Masters Program to remediate their GPA probably have a harder time in med school than others.

 

[DocMom1]

I doubt that a second degree actually HURTS your chances of matching. If I were to take a guess, I would say the reason for this discrepancy is because people who have other graduate degrees tend to have those degrees to remediate a less-than-stellar GPA from college to get accepted to medical school (ie. BMS Programs/Other Masters Programs). I'm sure there are others who are getting MPH/MBA/PhDs during med school, but the vast majority of people with another graduate degree probably fall into this GPA remediation category. And this doesn't apply to anyone on an individual basis, but I would guess that, as a whole, people who needed to pursue a Masters Program to remediate their GPA probably have a harder time in med school than others.

This hypothesis would be plausible, but it doesn't account for the fact that even MD/PhD's, when looked in an entirely separate data category, seem to follow this trend.

 

[doctoroftha313]

This hypothesis would be plausible, but it doesn't account for the fact that even MD/PhD's, when looked in an entirely separate data category, seem to follow this trend.

I may be mistaken, but MD/PhD's don't actually follow the trend according to that link. I guess for some of the specialties they do follow the trend, but overall the % PhD degree is less for unmatched (3.4%) than matched (4.4%) (not less by much though). I think the data with PhD degree just further show that having a dual degree really doesn't have any effect (whether it is positive or negative) on matching