Dual Major

[hlab27pair]

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[eteshoe]

Hey there,

I'll give my thoughts since I was a chemical engineering/biochemistry double major during UG. I will say that it was only possible since I came into college with a ton of credits (~65-70) much like yourself due to the way my high school partnered with a local university. IMO, the training was tough but with discipline it is possible to do well enough at both to get into med school. Now in my case I did actually want to do engineering after school (and I did - working in industry for 2 yrs after UG) but I enjoyed biochem too much to just take courses towards a minor. That is really the key here: you have to really enjoy the engineering courses or it will really be quite a difficult path. It is a good major that teaches one solid analytical skills and how to keep a strong work ethic if properly executed.

If you don't enjoy/or have little interest in engineering, I cannot in good faith recommend you go down this path. If you enjoy science and math as subjects, get minors along with your main science degree (I was able to pick up a math minor w/ little effort with the double major electives). From what you you wrote, majoring in bio, and getting math + science minors may serve your goals a bit better. Ignore family members who are trying to persuade you to go down a path you won't enjoy and more importantly wouldn't be able to put all your effort into to come out on the other side with a med school competitive GPA. Remember the way the system is set up, GPA tends to trump subject matter - so you might as well not set yourself up for failure. Good luck!

 

[tskbdmnd]

I'm personally choosing a double major in Chemical Engineering and Microbiology with a math minor. Here are 2 things that inspired me to choose engineering as my undergraduate major.

Engineering defined by ABET:
"Engineering is the profession in which a knowledge of the mathematical and natural sciences, gained by study, experience, and practice, is applied with judgment to develop ways to utilize, economically, the materials and forces of nature for the benefit of mankind"

I'd say a physician is an engineer then right? You apply medical knowledge with judgment in order to benefit your patient in the best way possible.

Also I'm not paying this much money for a biology degree lol.

EDIT: Seriously though, unless it's a program with a lot of good labs offered, it's not going to be worth it imo. But enriching yourself is always a great thing! If you have a passion for biology why not? Just make As.

 

[JustAPhD]

You said it yourself you have little interest in engineering. There are plenty of ways to gain critical thinking skills besides obtaining an engineering degree. If you like math and science consider a BME degree or perhaps a compBio one?

 

[Dro133]

There are plenty of ways to gain critical thinking stills besides obtaining an engineering degree.

This.

An engineering degree is certainly not useless, but it is in your case.

Do a Sudoku puzzle or something.

 

[hlab27pair]

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[Link2]

It sounds like you're only interested in majoring in biology because you have to take the prerequisite courses. I would suggest just majoring in engineering unless you are genuinely interested in biology. Even if you don't like engineering as a career, it still gives you a much better backup plan if medical school doesn't work out. Having an engineering degree doesn't mean you have to work in the same field. I majored in math and physics, and while it does teach many problem solving skills, I don't think it is directly applicable to medicine. If that's your only motivation for studying engineering, then you should reconsider it. Which field of engineering are you looking at majoring in? Usually you do not have to declare your major immediately, so you might be able to take some courses and see if it actually interests you.

I did not find the introductory biology and chemistry courses interesting, so it might be best to take the AP credits. I've searched though lots of schools and many accept AP credit (especially if you take some higher level courses in those areas).

 

[tskbdmnd]

Let me clarify. I don't like engineering as a CAREER as in working on a day to day basis. However, I still enjoy the engineering content and would thus still retain interest in the classes. I will most likely do a degree in engineering, but I am wondering whether or not I should just do the premed requirements or do an additional biology major

I'd look into all of your options instead of just biology. Look at course lists and see if the courses interest you. Look at the department's websites and faculty. Check if it's an environment with things to offer you. You might even be able to read student opinions about the faculty on ratemyprofessor. Email the adviser and ask her about it as well.

 

[tskbdmnd]

BTW:

The schools that don't accept AP credit from bio, chem, physics, and/or calc. (This parenthetical statement was for a different thread)
Loma Linda: Does not accept any.
UC-Irvine: Does not accept Bio.
UC-LA: Does not accept any.
UC-SF: Does not accept Bio.
University of Kentucky: Does not accept Physics.
University of Minnesota: Does not accept Bio or Chem
Saint Louis: Does not accept any.
University of Nebraska: Does not accept any.
University of Rochester: Does not accept Bio.
Puerto Rico: Only Ponce accepts any. Ponce accepts all.
University of Utah: Does not accept Bio or physics.

Everywhere else depends. Most just accept them. Sometimes it doesn't reduce your course load or only by half (if they only take 1 semester AP credit).

http://oaa.rice.edu/files/2014/01/AP-Credit-Allopathic-Medicine-Summer-2015-27wt667.pdf <-- The data

 

[hlab27pair]

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[hlab27pair]

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[Link2]

I will be majoring in computer science primarily because programming is one of the most applicable instances of critical thinking that I can imagine. This is my main reason for engineering

So you want to major in engineering because you want to major in computer science? And you are asking if you should major in biology along with those two?

 

[hlab27pair]

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[tskbdmnd]

Thanks. It seems like most schools would accept the credit. However, will skipping intro classes make the MCAT and upper level classes more difficult?

Nah intro classes are a waste of time and often end up ****ting on peoples GPAs. Idk how this is for pre-meds, but for my engineering major friends who often don't care about grades as much.... They get wrecked haha.

You might find that they are similar to college orientation courses (weed-out courses). It might be prudent to take... one, but I probably wouldn't take more. They're huge time sinks and they have labs so they're like 4-5 hour classes. It sucks dude.

EDIT:
This is just my opinion. Others have good opinions on this too. Often people say that intro classes should be taken for the easy As. I think that a class is a class is a class. Some take less to study for, but 2 hours of studying per hour of class a week and you're almost guaranteed an A anyways. It's your choice.

So you want to major in engineering because you want to major in computer science? And you are asking if you should major in biology along with those two?

He probably means electrical engineering with a computer science option. Or Comp sci engineering, that's a thing in certain places apparently.

 

[Link2]

Thanks. It seems like most schools would accept the credit. However, will skipping intro classes make the MCAT and upper level classes more difficult?

Taking those courses would help reinforce what you learned in the AP courses, but you will have to review it while preparing for the MCAT anyway.

computer science engineering (CSE) is engineering

Oh, I was confused since computer science is usually a separate major.

 

[hlab27pair]

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[Frog Kid]

Ayyyooo Go Green!
First, if you have no interest in a career in engineering, I don't think there is any point in choosing it as a major. If there's a chance you may decide otherwise down the line, I think ChemE or BME would be worth looking into as they provide better overlap than some of the other engineering degrees. Otherwise I'd recommend a major that aligns with medical school requirements, but is still marketable if things don't work out. Also, many majors will require you to do critical thinking, so I don't think you should worry about that aspect too much.
With regards to doing an additional biology major, IMO that would be a waste of time as you'd have additional capstone courses to complete and other requirements of the sort (as opposed to doing a single major + just the requirements for medical school).
Also, unless you feel weak in either subject, definitely use the AP Bio and AP Chem to opt out of the introductory courses. At my university, the AP Bio & Chem credit bypasses both sets of introductory courses as well as the labs. The extra time & money that you save by not taking them, greatly outweighs potentially spending more time studying gen chem or bio for the MCAT. However if time and money aren't an issue, than you may just want to disregard that.
What it really boils down to is if you are trying to learn as much as possible and get the most out of your undergraduate courses, or if you are trying to graduate and finish your medical school requirements as quickly and efficiently as possible. If it's the former, pick the major that interests you most, take your pre-med requirements, and possibly take the intro level bio's and chem's for the easy 4.0's (If you did well enough to get AP credit, the courses WILL be easy). If it's more the latter, then I'd recommend to do just a human bio degree, use the AP credit and graduate in 3 years (Your AP credit is worth around 20 credits at my uni).

 

[tskbdmnd]

It seems that most intro classes are weed-out classes with a harsh grading curve. If this is the case, why do some say that those with AP credit should retake these classes for an "easy A" if such a grade is hard to achieve?

umm, don't expect grade curves too much in college. They often expect you to know the information .

It's like... the material is usually easier in the intro classes. The class is usually just run in a brutal way. Good help is often difficult to get too. Also your schedule really won't be flexible. Engineering degrees often require a lot more classes. You could end up screwing yourself over due to schedule conflicts in the future and not being able to take a class. And you'll have to take 5 extra hours for like 4 semesters. I personally think the AP route is the way to go. Even if you get the easy As. It won't even allow 1 more B before dropping below 3.7. And the work load could tip you over to a B. I got a B while I took 18 hours last semester (granted I was taking classes well above my level).

On the other hand, I have no idea what adcoms think about them.

EDIT: The guy above me said you could graduate in 3 years but I wouldn't get my hopes up unless you can plan a 3 year degree on paper. It's a often little close to impossible to do in engineering. If you do though, good job.

 

[Frog Kid]

umm, don't expect grade curves too much in college. They often expect you to know the information .

It's like... the material is usually easier in the intro classes. The class is usually just run in a brutal way. Good help is often difficult to get too. Also your schedule really won't be flexible. Engineering degrees often require a lot more classes. You could end up screwing yourself over due to schedule conflicts in the future and not being able to take a class. And you'll have to take 5 extra hours for like 4 semesters. I personally think the AP route is the way to go. Even if you get the easy As. It won't even allow 1 more B before dropping below 3.7. And the work load could tip you over to a B. I got a B while I took 18 hours last semester (granted I was taking classes well above my level).

On the other hand, I have no idea what adcoms think about them.

EDIT: The guy above me said you could graduate in 3 years but I wouldn't get my hopes up unless you can plan a 3 year degree on paper. It's a often little close to impossible to do in engineering. If you do though, good job.

I only meant he could graduate in 3 years doing a biology degree. Engineering would be nearly impossible.

 

[tskbdmnd]

I only meant he could graduate in 3 years doing a biology degree. Engineering would be nearly impossible.

Ah sorry, I guess my eyes just skipped that haha.

 

[Link2]

I only meant he could graduate in 3 years doing a biology degree. Engineering would be nearly impossible.

It is possible. I know several people who have done it in 3 years and I finished my school's computer engineering requirements in 2 years except for 2 courses (without AP credit). You might have to take some courses in the summer but it is possible if you plan it out well. I don't think graduating early is a good idea for medical school though, since it would give less time for extracurricular activities (which is why I delayed my graduation too).

 

[tskbdmnd]

It is possible. I know several people who have done it in 3 years and I finished my school's computer engineering requirements in 2 years except for 2 courses (without AP credit). You might have to take some courses in the summer but it is possible if you plan it out well. I don't think graduating early is a good idea for medical school though, since it would give less time for extracurricular activities (which is why I delayed my graduation too).

How? You still need 120+ hours don't you? I could see comp sci engineering not having the pre-req chains that other majors have I guess. But how'd you get all 120 hours done in 2 years?

 

[Link2]

How? You still need 120+ hours don't you? I could see comp sci engineering not having the pre-req chains that other majors have I guess. But how'd you get all 120 hours done in 2 years?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, since I'm in Canada. But I took 6 courses first semester and 7 the other 3 semesters, and 3 courses each summer. I ignored the prerequisites and skipped the first year courses, but still had to take fourth year courses to compensate for that, so it didn't make any difference. In 2 years it was very difficult, but I imagine that it can be done with relative ease in 3 years.

 

[tskbdmnd]

I'm not sure how it works in the US, since I'm in Canada. But I took 6 courses first semester and 7 the other 3 semesters, and 3 courses each summer. I ignored the prerequisites and skipped the first year courses, but still had to take fourth year courses to compensate for that, so it didn't make any difference. In 2 years it was very difficult, but I imagine that it can be done with relative ease in 3 years.

Pre-reqs are required for me x.x but yeah I see how you did it. I would never recommend that to someone though haha.

 

[Link2]

Pre-reqs are required for me x.x but yeah I see how you did it. I would never recommend that to someone though haha.

They were required for me too (since engineering is a regulated program), but I wasn't majoring in it so it was okay.

 

[tskbdmnd]

They were required for me too (since engineering is a regulated program), but I wasn't majoring in it so it was okay.

At my school, you have to finish around 50 specified hours (Not including gen eds you'll be taking) before you can apply to professional school. You can't take any of the upper division engineering courses until you're admitted into the professional school.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

If your interest in engineering is purely academic and you have no desire to be an engineer there are plenty of resources available to you.
Don't major in something that's a noted GPA killer without a real passion for it.

 

[eteshoe]

Let me clarify. I don't like engineering as a career as in working on a day to day basis. However, I still enjoy the engineering content and would thus still retain interest in the classes. I will most likely do a degree in engineering, but I am wondering whether or not I should just do the premed requirements or do an additional biology major

I'm not sure that will be enough to keep you taking hard courses w/ tons of hw, projects, etc - the people who tend to do well in engineering tend to have some significant interest in the field. Engineering is quite applied and you're rarely learning things just for the sake of having the knowledge.

I will be majoring in computer science engineering primarily because programming is one of the most applicable instances of critical thinking that I can imagine. This is my main reason for engineering

I'm a bit confused here - CS tends to be heavy in programming, while CE tends to deal with comp architecture or things like robotics (both are cool, but I'm not sure what that degree will entail). I do like your thinking though since programming teaches you to think in a way that few others subjects will.

Thanks. It seems like most schools would accept the credit. However, will skipping intro classes make the MCAT and upper level classes more difficult?

Not really - I skipped a ton of intro classes and didn't run into too much trouble. I did read the TB regularly and googled concepts I was rusty on.

It seems that most intro classes are weed-out classes with a harsh grading curve. If this is the case, why do some say that those with AP credit should retake these classes for an "easy A" if such a grade is hard to achieve?

I never really got this concept, why would I waste time re-learning things I already knew. I always thought it's best to expand your knowledge base as efficiently as possible.

umm, don't expect grade curves too much in college. They often expect you to know the information .

It's like... the material is usually easier in the intro classes. The class is usually just run in a brutal way. Good help is often difficult to get too. Also your schedule really won't be flexible. Engineering degrees often require a lot more classes. You could end up screwing yourself over due to schedule conflicts in the future and not being able to take a class. And you'll have to take 5 extra hours for like 4 semesters. I personally think the AP route is the way to go. Even if you get the easy As. It won't even allow 1 more B before dropping below 3.7. And the work load could tip you over to a B. I got a B while I took 18 hours last semester (granted I was taking classes well above my level).

On the other hand, I have no idea what adcoms think about them.

EDIT: The guy above me said you could graduate in 3 years but I wouldn't get my hopes up unless you can plan a 3 year degree on paper. It's a often little close to impossible to do in engineering. If you do though, good job.

True.

I did graduate in 3 yrs but I had a few things going for me:
No need to take intro classes or humanities, a double major combo that worked synergistically, quarter system (took 24 credits/quarter for all 3 yrs), I was a glutton for pain and I didn't need a lot of sleep to operate (I think I averaged ~ 4 hrs/night all of UG) - though putting myself through that kind of hell probably took a few yrs of the back end of my life lol. In retrospect, I was one crazy ****** back then - I would not recommend that course of action to anyone.

 

[jih]

I was a biomedical engineering major back in undergrad. I did not plan to go to medical school until about halfway through, and my original career goal was in industry. The advice I give on these forums is to only pursue engineering as a premed if you have a genuine interest in engineering. Do not use it to boost your resume, because it will not help. If you do not have a drive for it, you are not likely to do well in the advanced math/engineering courses, and this will kill your GPA.

In your case, however, you want to study engineering in order to improve your critical thinking and problem solving. I agree that it will really teach you these skills, but they can also be learned in other ways in any other science major, usually outside of class. Think about getting a research job early in school and focus on your critical thinking/problem solving there. You could also take an engineering elective or two alongside your other major if your university allows it. I will, once again, recommend that you stay away from engineering if you do not have an interest in it.

As for AP credits, do not use them to skip college courses. Many schools do not like that, and you are giving up what should be free As. At the end of the day, your goal is to get into medical school. A biology major will give you plenty of opportunities to study advanced bio/chem if you desire.

 

[tskbdmnd]

Guys guys, he hasn't even started freshman year... How is he supposed to know if he enjoys engineering? Let him take a semester or two and figure it out.