Navy DUINS FY22 ADVANCED DENTAL EDUCATION AVAILABILITY ANNOUNCEMENT

[chlrbwls]

FISCAL YEAR 2022 ADVANCED DENTAL EDUCATION AVAILABILITY ANNOUNCEMENT

Clinical Informatics5
Comprehensive Dentistry¹
Endodontics1
Maxillofacial Prosthetics Fellowship5
Operative and Preventive Dentistry3
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery4*
Orofacial Pain3 or 6
Orthodontics1
Pediatric Dentistry1
Periodontics3
Prosthodontics3
* Application for Match to a 6-year program is authorized.

As you can see, this is the first time in a while that they will allow 6yr applications if accepted for FTOS for OMFS for the dual degree program.

Good luck to everyone this cycle

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[FutureDent020]

Interesting that Perio is still at 3, but Endo dropped to 1. And does that say comp is 1?? They usually have at least 5-6.

 

[liquidblue123]

Pretty sure those are codes for duration of the training. Not slots for whoever is wondering.

 

[schmoob]

Pretty sure those are codes for duration of the training. Not slots for whoever is wondering.

Ortho and endo are not 1 year programs...

 

[FutureDent020]

Pretty sure those are codes for duration of the training. Not slots for whoever is wondering.

Definitely not duration of training. Most shocking are the comp slots available if it is only 1 and then Endo. Ortho and Pedo have always been low. But need for Endo is ABUNDANT in the service. Recruiting depots, larger ship ports, bigger Marine Duty Stations have huge needs. And majority of dentists are younger who don’t have the best endo training and need help. I know because I was one and was around many. I guess they are comfortable contracting out. Good for Endodontists in the areas I guess.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

Definitely not duration of training. Most shocking are the comp slots available if it is only 1 and then Endo. Ortho and Pedo have always been low. But need for Endo is ABUNDANT in the service. Recruiting depots, larger ship ports, bigger Marine Duty Stations have huge needs. And majority of dentists are younger who don’t have the best endo training and need help. I know because I was one and was around many. I guess they are comfortable contracting out. Good for Endodontists in the areas I guess.

 

[FutureDent020]

View attachment 331041

Ah, thank you. That makes sense

 

[Lankers]

If someone receives the dual degree, would they be eligible (after ADSO)for more incentive pay than just the DDS and OMFS? For example, would they get incentive pay for the MD as well? Also, from my understanding some dual degree also get certificates in general surgery. Would they get paid for that as well?

 

[SirBrotherJam]

If someone receives the dual degree, would they be eligible (after ADSO)for more incentive pay than just the DDS and OMFS? For example, would they get incentive pay for the MD as well. Also, from my understanding some dual degree also get certificates in general surgery. Would they get paid for that as well?

lol... no. This is the government bud. Work you to death and pay you the least.

 

[Lankers]

lol... no. This is the government bud. Work you to death and pay you the least.

Any speculation why they are authorizing the six year? Also, think this is a one-off, or maybe something they will offer more often?

 

[CarcinomaInSitu]

Any speculation why they are authorizing the six year? Also, think this is a one-off, or maybe something they will offer more often?

The thought is that the navy wants to match the # of Dual-Degrees in their force as the civilian sector. They said about 40% dual degree, 60% single is what they're going to be aiming for. They said the plan is to authorize more 6 years in the future from now on but obviously this is just what I've been told and all of this can change.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

The thought is that the navy wants to match the # of Dual-Degrees in their force as the civilian sector. They said about 40% dual degree, 60% single is what they're going to be aiming for. They said the plan is to authorize more 6 years in the future from now on but obviously this is just what I've been told and all of this can change.

I speculate that is to retain them longer compared to those that are trained for 4 years in service. Right now it is a stupidly good deal to go HPSP/OMFS and leave after 8 years.

 

[Lankers]

I speculate that is to retain them longer compared to those that are trained for 4 years in service. Right now it is a stupidly good deal to go HPSP/OMFS and leave after 8 years.

I was mathing it out and it seems in a lot of situations it is better or at least equal to civilian (for 8 years only). Really depends where you went to DSchool.

 

[averageasian]

How many years do you owe if you do the FTOS 6 year? 6 year NADSS?

 

[liquidblue123]

FTOS 6 years, you will owe 6 on top of 4 for HPSP after you finish residency. Nadds you will owe 4 for HPSP, you will serve after you do 6 years of civilian OMFS residency. From what I’ve read anyways. I’m just a second year dental student.

 

[liquidblue123]

I was mathing it out and it seems in a lot of situations it is better or at least equal to civilian (for 8 years only). Really depends where you went to DSchool.

Did you happen to include moonlighting as an OMFS on weekends after you finish residency? I’m curious as to how that turns out.

 

[Lankers]

Did you happen to include moonlighting as an OMFS on weekends after you finish residency? I’m curious as to how that turns out.

No I did not do that. Not sure how to account for it.

 

[merg97]

Anyone else see that 6 year OMS programs were authorized for FTOS? How does that work? Do you owe the Navy 6 years on top of the 4 from dental school if you're an HPSP student who goes that route?

 

[Tooth Ferry]

Did you happen to include moonlighting as an OMFS on weekends after you finish residency? I’m curious as to how that turns out.

Can also take leave during the week to moonlight.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Anyone else see that 6 year OMS programs were authorized for FTOS? How does that work? Do you owe the Navy 6 years on top of the 4 from dental school if you're an HPSP student who goes that route?

That’s my understanding. So by the time you’re done with residency and your payback you’d have been in the Navy 16 years. Might as well plan on a career at that point.

Big Hoss

 

[Lankers]

What would be the career goals / aim for someone taking the FTOS 6 year OMS spot? It seems like a 1-2 million dollar decision. Do you get better "perks(?)" in the Navy with the MD with all your other credentials?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What would be the career goals / aim for someone taking the FTOS 6 year OMS spot? It seems like a 1-2 million dollar decision. Do you get better "perks(?)" in the Navy with the MD with all your other credentials?

Unless you can do NADDS it’s not worth it, in my opinion. You won’t be eligible for any retention bonus until your payback is done. So, even if you make the military a career you’ll be missing out on 8 years of retention bonuses.

Big Hoss

 

[Lankers]

Unless you can do NADDS it’s not worth it, in my opinion. You won’t be eligible for any retention bonus until your payback is done. So, even if you make the military a career you’ll be missing out on 8 years of retention bonuses.

Big Hoss

I guess that is not a bad deal. No military pay, nor active duty benefits (such as health insurance). HPSP --> NADDS --> 4 year ADSO

Do you think after the four years in the Navy the MD portion would be harder to use back in civilian world? I wonder if you would have some trouble getting into academia.

 

[UNCafDDS]

"As you can see, this is the first time in a while that they will allow 6yr applications if accepted for FTOS for OMFS for the dual degree program."

I understand that this is for for Navy, but does anybody on here have any info/thoughts on whether AF might do the same (allow 6yr OMFS applications), esp. in the next application cycle?

 

[ShortShortsDad]

"As you can see, this is the first time in a while that they will allow 6yr applications if accepted for FTOS for OMFS for the dual degree program."

I understand that this is for for Navy, but does anybody on here have any info/thoughts on whether AF might do the same (allow 6yr OMFS applications), esp. in the next application cycle?

Not sure for AF but Army is going that way. There are a bunch of posts on this in the past but you’ve got to have a screw loose to sign that contact, the service obligation will be so long. Maybe it won’t suck in your branch but I can’t imagine anyone being happy in the Army as an OMS being obligated for 16 years and only getting a retention bonus for the last 4 if they’re shooting for retirement at 20

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Any idea when the selection results will come out?

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

Not sure for AF but Army is going that way. There are a bunch of posts on this in the past but you’ve got to have a screw loose to sign that contact, the service obligation will be so long. Maybe it won’t suck in your branch but I can’t imagine anyone being happy in the Army as an OMS being obligated for 16 years and only getting a retention bonus for the last 4 if they’re shooting for retirement at 20

I don't understand why the Army thought it was a good idea to make the 6 year OMS track consecutive and not concurrent payback. I understand they're probably trying to lock down bright people for long contracts, but the 9 year pay back after 6 years residency completely removed the desire to go for the 6 year program when the 4 year programs are already great. Heck, I could probably do a 4 year, then pay back my time, then do an accelerated MD. Not to mention as you said the pay is pretty garbage. They should bump the pay, make the payback concurrent, allow more moonlighting, something to entice Oral Surgeons to want to stay in. If you could make a more competitive salary and also do the Army thing I am sure more people would stay.

 

[schmoob]

I don't understand why the Army thought it was a good idea to make the 6 year OMS track consecutive and not concurrent payback. I understand they're probably trying to lock down bright people for long contracts, but the 9 year pay back after 6 years residency completely removed the desire to go for the 6 year program when the 4 year programs are already great. Heck, I could probably do a 4 year, then pay back my time, then do an accelerated MD. Not to mention as you said the pay is pretty garbage. They should bump the pay, make the payback consecutive, allow more moonlighting, something to entice Oral Surgeons to want to stay in. If you could make a more competitive salary and also do they Army thing I am sure more people would stay.

It’s consecutive because it is FTOS. In a FTIS 4 year residency, you are in a military facility treating military personnel and their dependents.
In a FTOS 6 year OMS residency you are essentially an Active Duty civilian in a civilian program collecting military pay and benefits and having medical school paid for. The military are going to want their time back.

 

[D1Bound]

It’s consecutive because it is FTOS. In a FTIS 4 year residency, you are in a military facility treating military personnel and their dependents.
In a FTOS 6 year OMS residency you are essentially an Active Duty civilian in a civilian program collecting military pay and benefits and having medical school paid for. The military are going to want their time back.

That’s a great response, and I was surprised to hear that they pay for the med school tuition when I first learned about this opportunity, and I’m glad the Army is making things available. I just think it’s still a hard sell to an applicant. Someone who steps into this is signing a contract that impacts a very long way into the future.

 

[schmoob]

That’s a great response, and I was surprised to hear that they pay for the med school tuition when I first learned about this opportunity, and I’m glad the Army is making things available. I just think it’s still a hard sell to an applicant. Someone who steps into this is signing a contract that impacts a very long way into the future.

I think it’s a great sell for people who choose this path. Think of the cost of:
-Dental School
-Your stipend in dental school
-Depending on your location, your 6 figure income for 6 years while in training. You will be paid way more than your co-residents
-Your medical school tuition on top of your income
-HEALTH INSURANCE. Do not underestimate this. I pay $1500 a month, and that’s without deductible or copay.
-Once you finish training you will basically start your Army career as a MAJ
-After your obligation is complete you have 5 years until retirement. There are large retention bonuses as well as increasing special pays. OMS also receives an extra $50K a year just for being OMS.
-Because of HPSP, you retire at 20 years but are calculated at 24 years for pay purposes. So at that point you are likely going to retire as a COL with 24 years of service, which equates to 60 percent of your base pay forever.

If the 6 year route is what you really want, consider all of these factors.

 

[D1Bound]

I think it’s a great sell for people who choose this path. Think of the cost of:
-Dental School
-Your stipend in dental school
-Depending on your location, your 6 figure income for 6 years while in training. You will be paid way more than your co-residents
-Your medical school tuition on top of your income
-HEALTH INSURANCE. Do not underestimate this. I pay $1500 a month, and that’s without deductible or copay.
-Once you finish training you will basically start your Army career as a MAJ
-After your obligation is complete you have 5 years until retirement. There are large retention bonuses as well as increasing special pays. OMS also receives an extra $50K a year just for being OMS.
-Because of HPSP, you retire at 20 years but are calculated at 24 years for pay purposes. So at that point you are likely going to retire as a COL with 24 years of service, which equates to 60 percent of your base pay forever.

If the 6 year route is what you really want, consider all of these factors.

What is a OMS colonel's salary? The way you put it that doesn't sound that bad and I would like to hear your answer. 60% pay in retirement would rival a self pay retirement in the stock market. That's the "problem" with the military. They know how to sell you on staying in. The path you described sounds enticing. On the other hand, someone could take the four year route, separate as soon as possible, and go and try to pull 500-700k or beyond for those 14 years they would have been in the military still, but I suppose that is the "riskier" option.

 

[Helpful Troll]

I think it’s a great sell for people who choose this path. Think of the cost of:
-Dental School
-Your stipend in dental school
-Depending on your location, your 6 figure income for 6 years while in training. You will be paid way more than your co-residents
-Your medical school tuition on top of your income
-HEALTH INSURANCE. Do not underestimate this. I pay $1500 a month, and that’s without deductible or copay.
-Once you finish training you will basically start your Army career as a MAJ
-After your obligation is complete you have 5 years until retirement. There are large retention bonuses as well as increasing special pays. OMS also receives an extra $50K a year just for being OMS.
-Because of HPSP, you retire at 20 years but are calculated at 24 years for pay purposes. So at that point you are likely going to retire as a COL with 24 years of service, which equates to 60 percent of your base pay forever.

If the 6 year route is what you really want, consider all of these factors.

@schmoob do you have a reference for this (bolded). I'm not sure it's true as your time in HPSP is not AD but reserves.

 

[schmoob]

What is a OMS colonel's salary? The way you put it that doesn't sound that bad and I would like to hear your answer. 60% pay in retirement would rival a self pay retirement in the stock market. That's the "problem" with the military. They know how to sell you on staying in. The path you described sounds enticing. On the other hand, someone could take the four year route, separate as soon as possible, and go and try to pull 500-700k or beyond for those 14 years they would have been in the military still, but I suppose that is the "riskier" option.

Look at the military pay chart. Base pay for O-6 at 24 years x 60%.

@schmoob do you have a reference for this (bolded). I'm not sure it's true as your time in HPSP is not AD but reserves.

Yes I’m well aware, that’s why you can’t retire 16 years after you finish school. You need to do 20 years AD but your 4 years in the program are added on at the end and calculated for retirement pay, not retirement time.
It’s the same thing if someone attends Naval Academy, West Point, and even USUHS.

 

[schmoob]

@schmoob do you have a reference for this (bolded). I'm not sure it's true as your time in HPSP is not AD but reserves.

DoDI 1215.07, July 30, 2019


HPSP/FAP. Credit members of the Selected Reserve who satisfy the HPSP/FAP requirements for active service pursuant to Section 2126 of Title 10, U.S.C., with 50 retirement points for each year of participation in a course of study. Pursuant to Section 2126(a) of Title 10, U.S.C., service performed while an HPSP/FAP member is not counted in determining eligibility for retirement unless a physical disability is incurred while on active duty as a program member.
(1) Credit the retirement points at the end of each year the Service member completed the requisite course of study while serving in the Selected Reserve.
(2) Record the retirement points as earned in the year the Service member participated in the course of study.
(3) The award of service credit is limited to 4 years of participation in a course of study under the HPSP/FAP.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

DoDI 1215.07, July 30, 2019


HPSP/FAP. Credit members of the Selected Reserve who satisfy the HPSP/FAP requirements for active service pursuant to Section 2126 of Title 10, U.S.C., with 50 retirement points for each year of participation in a course of study. Pursuant to Section 2126(a) of Title 10, U.S.C., service performed while an HPSP/FAP member is not counted in determining eligibility for retirement unless a physical disability is incurred while on active duty as a program member.
(1) Credit the retirement points at the end of each year the Service member completed the requisite course of study while serving in the Selected Reserve.
(2) Record the retirement points as earned in the year the Service member participated in the course of study.
(3) The award of service credit is limited to 4 years of participation in a course of study under the HPSP/FAP.

This must be new. It used to just apply to the HSCP, as far as I knew.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

Look at the military pay chart. Base pay for O-6 at 24 years x 60%.



Yes I’m well aware, that’s why you can’t retire 16 years after you finish school. You need to do 20 years AD but your 4 years in the program are added on at the end and calculated for retirement pay, not retirement time.
It’s the same thing if someone attends Naval Academy, West Point, and even USUHS.

Oh so the retirement is ONLY the base pay?

 

[schmoob]

This must be new. It used to just apply to the HSCP, as far as I knew.

Big Hoss

Nah. HSCP is AD. You can retire 16 years after graduating with 20 YOS.
With HPSP you still need to do 20 years, but retire with 24YOS.

Oh so the retirement is ONLY the base pay?

Always. The military isn’t going to pay you more because you were an OMS 30 years ago.
SEALs have an incredibly difficult training pipeline, but when they retire they don’t get anything additional other than their base pay.

 

[D1Bound]

Nah. HSCP is AD. You can retire 16 years after graduating with 20 YOS.
With HPSP you still need to do 20 years, but retire with 24YOS.



Always. The military isn’t going to pay you more because you were an OMS 30 years ago.
SEALs have an incredibly difficult training pipeline, but when they retire they don’t get anything additional other than their base pay.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong numbers but that doesn't seem that gravy then. Surely a surgeon could separate after a 4 year residency and pay back and pull enough to make the military retirement look small

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Nah. HSCP is AD. You can retire 16 years after graduating with 20 YOS.
With HPSP you still need to do 20 years, but retire with 24YOS.

This is why I hate trusting recruiters/detailers for “career advice.” No one has any idea what’s really going on. People should just come to you for that advice. I heard from multiple detailers that HPSP doesn’t count at all towards retirement and that the HSCP counts as 4 years of credit after you’ve hit the 20.

Big Hoss

 

[schmoob]

This is why I hate trusting recruiters/detailers for “career advice.” No one has any idea what’s really going on. People should just come to you for that advice. I heard from multiple detailers that HPSP doesn’t count at all towards retirement and that the HSCP counts as 4 years of credit after you’ve hit the 20.

Big Hoss

Yeah I didn’t trust anyone either. If I ever had a chit denied, I would look up the relevant instruction in BUPERS, OPNAV, NAVADMIN, ALNAV, DoDI, etc. I would find what I need, print it out and highlight the applicable portion. Then I would resubmit my chit but have the routing page go all the way up to the CO. It would get approved. The best part was the chain of command getting pissed that I have an approved chit that they previously denied.

I was that guy. I also submitted a lot of winning BJOQ, JSOQ, SOQ packages, wrote ALOT of evals, and submitted people for lots of awards. I got pretty good at the Navy admin stuff over the years.

 

[LFA20]

This is why I hate trusting recruiters/detailers for “career advice.” No one has any idea what’s really going on. People should just come to you for that advice. I heard from multiple detailers that HPSP doesn’t count at all towards retirement and that the HSCP counts as 4 years of credit after you’ve hit the 20.

Big Hoss

Im HSCP. On bupers online under military locator It’s shows what year you are eligible to retire. 16 years for me after I graduate from dental school

 

[chlrbwls]

Nah. HSCP is AD. You can retire 16 years after graduating with 20 YOS.
With HPSP you still need to do 20 years, but retire with 24YOS.



Always. The military isn’t going to pay you more because you were an OMS 30 years ago.
SEALs have an incredibly difficult training pipeline, but when they retire they don’t get anything additional other than their base pay.

I guess the benefit to this would be that when you retiree and on a high 3 you get 24 years x 2.5% (60%) of your base pay and if on BRS you get 24yrs x 2% (48%) as HPSP

 

[chlrbwls]

Also for whatever its worth, the DUINS results came out 2nd July last year

 

[Helpful Troll]

DoDI 1215.07, July 30, 2019


HPSP/FAP. Credit members of the Selected Reserve who satisfy the HPSP/FAP requirements for active service pursuant to Section 2126 of Title 10, U.S.C., with 50 retirement points for each year of participation in a course of study. Pursuant to Section 2126(a) of Title 10, U.S.C., service performed while an HPSP/FAP member is not counted in determining eligibility for retirement unless a physical disability is incurred while on active duty as a program member.
(1) Credit the retirement points at the end of each year the Service member completed the requisite course of study while serving in the Selected Reserve.
(2) Record the retirement points as earned in the year the Service member participated in the course of study.
(3) The award of service credit is limited to 4 years of participation in a course of study under the HPSP/FAP.

schmoob - Thanks for the reference DoDI 1215.07 I'll check it out - you could be correct. The quote above from the DoDI applies to members of the Selected Reserves... the age for collection of a Selected Reserve retirement is age 60 not when you hit 20 years of service. I thought you were referencing AD retirement.

 

[D1Bound]

I guess the benefit to this would be that when you retiree and on a high 3 you get 24 years x 2.5% (60%) of your base pay and if on BRS you get 24yrs x 2% (48%) as HPSP

If it's only 48% as HPSP that definitely doesn't look that great anymore

 

[Tooth Ferry]

What is a OMS colonel's salary? The way you put it that doesn't sound that bad and I would like to hear your answer. 60% pay in retirement would rival a self pay retirement in the stock market. That's the "problem" with the military. They know how to sell you on staying in. The path you described sounds enticing. On the other hand, someone could take the four year route, separate as soon as possible, and go and try to pull 500-700k or beyond for those 14 years they would have been in the military still, but I suppose that is the "riskier" option.

Your salary will be your base pay (rank/time in service) + BAH for your region + BAS + whatever the specialty pay is for OMS at the time (which I believe is currently $60,000) + whatever retention bonus you sign (can sign up to a 6 year contract with an extra $85k a year (I don't have the sheet in front of me so this may not be accurate).

You may want to wait and apply until you've been in a year or two - you'd be making a major commitment to the military and may want to make sure you fit in with the organization and the mission.

 

[distressstudent]

What is Clinical Informatics ?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What is Clinical Informatics ?

A made up specialty for those gunning for “executive medicine.” Same thing with the Joint Commission fellowship they offer every so often.

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

A made up specialty for those gunning for “executive medicine.” Same thing with the Joint Commission fellowship they offer every so often.

Big Hoss

What does the Joint Commission Fellowship do?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What does the Joint Commission Fellowship do?

Pretty much glorified infection control and patient safety.

Big Hoss