Duke vs. UNC

[Big XII Fanatic]

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Duke: better research reputation, more opportunities for dual degrees
UNC: better location; Chapel Hill is sick (as in good)

what are your thoughts?

 

[CaramelDlite]

Duke: better research reputation, more opportunities for dual degrees
UNC: better location; Chapel Hill is sick (as in good)

what are your thoughts?

better location? they're fifteen minutes from each other. you could live in chapel hill and go to duke if need be

 

[voirlesetoiles]

why compare them? I would jump with joy with an acceptance from either one. haha

UNC - excellent clinical program, nice campus
Duke - good for clinical, probably even better for research, its an Ivy league school (I dunno how much names matter but it's a plus)

 

[thesauce]

why compare them? I would jump with joy with an acceptance from either one. haha

UNC - excellent clinical program, nice campus
Duke - good for clinical, probably even better for research, its an Ivy league school (I dunno how much names matter but it's a plus)

Duke isn't an Ivy League school

 

[m26]

better location? they're fifteen minutes from each other. you could live in chapel hill and go to duke if need be

Duke is in a nice area. It's not like it's "in" downtown Durham. Pick a basketball team and go with it....

I will say the Duke hospital system seemed to be "the" hospital in the triangle area. Great rep. Other than that, I know little about the two.

 

[braluk]

Im surprised, no one has mentioned anything about their respective basketball teams. Here ill toss a bone out, UNC lost today to unranked Virginia Tech. WOOT! I think im going to lose my advisorship for this

 

[raginasian1]

actually, UNC has more dual degree programs....the MD/MPH program is one of the best in the country (UNC Public Health is "tied for second" in US News rankings), and many duke medical students wishing to pursue additional degrees such as public health or library science go to UNC
besides, there is a lot of cooperation between the two universities, both at the graduate and undergraduate level.



financially, UNC is much cheaper, at least for in-state students, tuition is around $6,000 (in-state) for UNC and $32,000 for duke

Duke is def. more research oriented and is a great option for someone with career interests in academia and surpasses UNC in a number of areas, but UNC shouldn't be excluded and they also have a decent research program as well...however, UNC also has a great reputation in primary care

some people say that chapel hill would not exist without UNC...in fact, that is the case...at least 40% of the jobs in the city are due to UNC and UNC Hospitals and during school breaks the town seems empty...durham, however, has an atmosphere beyond just Duke university and includes the American Dance Festival in the summer, Centerfest in the fall, and the Durham Bulls (greatest baseball team ever)...but, as CaramelDlite said it, they're so close that you can enjoy both cities and raleigh at the same time.

i hope this helps

 

[raginasian1]

http://media.www.dailytarheel.com/media/storage/paper885/news/2006/11/06/University/New-DukeUnc.Medical.Program.Accepts.Sole.Applicant-2440453.shtml?sourcedomain=www.dailytarheel.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com

an article discussing a new program that allows duke medical students to get a masters of library science degree

 

[Funky]

i'm waiting for panda bear to chime in about duke

 

[Dookter]

I'll have to add to what others have said about location: they are right down the road from each other. Duke med students frequently go to Chapel Hill, or we can just stay in Durham. They both have things to do.

 

[nbandy13]

shelden williams is ugly.

 

[soydelish]

Im surprised, no one has mentioned anything about their respective basketball teams. Here ill toss a bone out, UNC lost today to unranked Virginia Tech. WOOT! I think im going to lose my advisorship for this

didn't duke also lose to va tech last week?

 

[Funky]

didn't duke also lose to va tech last week?

va tech is a giant killer.

 

[yobynaes]

i thought duke's in a tough neighborhood.
please correct me if im wrong. i remember duke has a condensed medical program, where the normal first two years were shortened into one. their third year is open for research purpose.

 

[Dookter]

i thought duke's in a tough neighborhood.
please correct me if im wrong. i remember duke has a condensed medical program, where the normal first two years were shortened into one. their third year is open for research purpose.

No, Duke is not in a tough neighborhood....at all.

You're right about the first and third years, but remember that the first year is really long, so it's not quite like having two years in one.

 

[MrBurns10]

Well I go to Duke and my boyfriend goes to UNC (he actually chose UNC over Duke), so I'll chime in. They are very different schools. You first have to ask yourself what you want out of a curriculum...I love the idea of getting all our basic sciences over in one year and getting 3rd year to do research/dual degree/go abroad, which would (hopefully) help in getting a residency. Another huge advantage is that Duke not only puts you on the wards sooner, they give 3 elective periods and an elective within surgery. A lot of places don't even give elective time during their 3rd year, so this is tremendously helpful in gaining exposure to specialties early on so you'll have an easier time deciding before 4th year. On the other hand, I have to study A LOT more than my boyfriend does and I've definitely been plenty jealous of their curriculum when things get particularly stressful. So that's the first question you have to ask you yourself.

Second is the study body. Duke is smaller (102 vs. 160) and the student body tends to be a bit more intense. I love my classmates and we all do tons of stuff together, but they're a little on the intense side, which has been difficult for me to adjust to. My boyfriend's friends seem much more chill, which I tend to get along with better as far as "in the classroom" goes.

And lastly is price. Duke is $35,000 a year in tuition, UNC is $11,000 per year (although cost of living is higher in CH, but not $25,000 worth). Big difference. However, price is the last thing you should take into consideration, in my opinion. I have a classmate who turned down a full scholarship at UNC to go to Duke, whereas my boyfriend and others went the UNC route. If you like everything about the schools equally, then by all means go to UNC. But that's almost impossible to do given how different the schools are.

They're both great schools and you won't be prevented from going anywhere by going to either one of them. However, I should add that there is absolutely nothing like being in Cameron for a Duke basketball game. UNC SUCKS!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

whats the cost of unc if youre out-of-state?

im guessing its close to the same cost as duke in-state or out-of-state?

 

[MrBurns10]

whats the cost of unc if youre out-of-state?

im guessing its close to the same cost as duke in-state or out-of-state?

It might even be a little more expensive ($38,000, if i remember correctly) to go to UNC out-of-state. However, you can switch your residency to North Carolina and pay 11,000/yr for 2nd-4th years.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

shelden williams is ugly.

Shelden's not on the team anymore, silly.

I'm disappointed we haven't gone into the Duke-UNC women's basketball rivalry, since Duke just beat Maryland (who was #1) yesterday too. UNC will likely assume #1 with Duke coming up at #2 next poll.

 

[byong_soo]

Shelden's not on the team anymore, silly.

this is very true. but this doesn't negate the fact that he's fugly 😀

 

[topdogg82]

duke > unc. i mean i thought everyone knew that...haha j/k. i'd love to get into either, but unc def has better looking girls, if that's a factor

 

[byong_soo]

that should be included in when making US New Ranking. j/k
they had playboy ranking for undergraduate institutions. it would be awesome to have one for med schools =)

 

[topdogg82]

yea i just assume there's a decent correlation b/w the undergrad population and med school in terms of the girls, but w/ the class sizes so small for med school i doubt there are many out there that are just stacked with hotties

 

[TPROrgoTutor2]

I'd prefer UNC.

 

[MrBurns10]

duke > unc. i mean i thought everyone knew that...haha j/k. i'd love to get into either, but unc def has better looking girls, if that's a factor

haha you'd actually be surprised. I was a Duke undergrad so I'll admit that UNC has a greater number of hot guys and girls. But I gotta say...having seen a lot of the UNC class and my class, I would actually give the edge to my class as far as overall attractiveness goes.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

I've worked with and taught both Duke and UNC undergrads. To me it's just a matter of numbers. UNC's undergraduate population is a lot larger than Duke's so numerically chances I would think would favor UNC's "attractiveness" given there are more variables that one would find someone attractive there. That and the Southern charm thing.

 

[husky0684]

From what I have seen, both schools have their fair share of attractive coeds, it is just UNC has so many more of them( like 3 to 1 girl to guy ratio). On another topic, I was hoping someone could elaborate on the whole "intense" factor at Duke because that word is used a lot to describe them. The program seemed incredible and the students and faculty on interview day all seemed nice and semi-laid back, but it would be a major turn off it is an uber-competitive, all work no play atmosphere so i was hoping someone would have some more insight into the typical duke med student as compared to other schools with more traditional curriculum.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

Among my friends who went to Duke med, I think "work hard play hard" describes a good number of people at Duke.

 

[byong_soo]

no way!! 3 to 1 girl to guy ration?!!?!?! I should've applied there! haha

 

[husky0684]

no way!! 3 to 1 girl to guy ration?!!?!?! I should've applied there! haha

Just to clarify, the three to one ratio is for UNC undergrad but surely you could woo some unsuspecting freshmen by telling them you are a future doctor.

 

[MrBurns10]

From what I have seen, both schools have their fair share of attractive coeds, it is just UNC has so many more of them( like 3 to 1 girl to guy ratio). On another topic, I was hoping someone could elaborate on the whole "intense" factor at Duke because that word is used a lot to describe them. The program seemed incredible and the students and faculty on interview day all seemed nice and semi-laid back, but it would be a major turn off it is an uber-competitive, all work no play atmosphere so i was hoping someone would have some more insight into the typical duke med student as compared to other schools with more traditional curriculum.

Oh, there's plenty of play going on, don't worry about that. We go out quite a bit to bars and clubs as a class. In fact, the culture seems to be far more "work hard, play hard" than even undergrad was because you have to study so much most weeks that people go out any chance they get.

When I used the word "intense", it wasn't in reference to the competitiveness of our class. One of the reasons I love my classmates is that everyone is so helpful. People send out study guides they've made, helpful resources, etc. to the entire class all the time. What I meant was that, having an honors/pass/fail system (although it's impt to note that your grade is NOT based on those of your classmates...everyone could get honors if that turned out to be the case) for most of our 1st year blocks, people are much more focused on getting honors than I honestly expected. I'd always heard that 1st year grades don't matter that much, which I still hear from our advisory deans and such, but people are still very focused on having to get honors. There are plenty of people who have made the conscious decision to not go for honors, but I personally wasn't immune to the effects of having brilliant classmates that had an easier time getting honors and got hard on myself whenever I didn't make an honors-worthy grade on a test. But that's MY problem, not there's. If you come in with the attitude that you're going to do your best but not kill yourself and you're okay with passing, then you'll be more than happy. I promise.

There are bad apples and good apples (is that even a phrase?) in every med school class and Duke's is no different. But I like most of my classmates, and I think most people are happy they came to Duke.

 

[diosa428]

Yeah I'd mostly agree with what Mr. Burns said. I'd say there are a handful of people in our class who are gung-ho on getting honors and will study 24/7 to get it, if that's what they have to do, and there are another handful that are happy with a 71, cuz P=MD, and then the rest of us are just trying to do our best. It does help that anyone with a certain grade (depending upon the block) will get honors, so that we're not competing WITH each other, because I imagine that would be unnecessarily stressful. But yeah, we go out to bars and dinner and movies and all that, although I think the general consensus is that we do have a lot more work than most of us had in undergrad.

As for Duke vs. UNC, go for Duke if you really love the curriculum (1 year of basic sciences, a year off for research), but if that doesn't really interest you, go to UNC and save yourself some money. Also, for whoever posted about the MD/MPH program, Duke's MD/MPH program is actually in conjunction with UNC (you do your MPH at UNC during third year), so their great program is also used to our advantage. And for those of you who may be interested in an MD/PhD, if you didn't get in the first time around, or change your mind in the first couple of years, they're now allowing MSIIs to apply to the program and start their PhD in third year.

As far as attractiveness, eh. There are more people in UNCs class, so that probably gives you a better advantage. I think that Duke's class is also considerably younger than UNC's class - our class is mostly 05 and 06 graduates, with probably a handful of "older" students (ie - students in their upper 20s).

 

[bubbachuck]

pretty sure its not 3:1, but 3:2. As in 60:40 girls to guys.

 

[Big XII Fanatic]

actually, UNC has more dual degree programs....the MD/MPH program is one of the best in the country (UNC Public Health is "tied for second" in US News rankings), and many duke medical students wishing to pursue additional degrees such as public health or library science go to UNC
besides, there is a lot of cooperation between the two universities, both at the graduate and undergraduate level.

To me, the strength of the UNC Public Health School is a moot point, since both UNC and Duke med students go to Chapel Hill to get their MPH.

And as far as I know, UNC does not offer a JD/MD or MD/MBA, but Duke does. Is my information incorrect?

Well I go to Duke and my boyfriend goes to UNC (he actually chose UNC over Duke), so I'll chime in. They are very different schools. You first have to ask yourself what you want out of a curriculum...I love the idea of getting all our basic sciences over in one year and getting 3rd year to do research/dual degree/go abroad, which would (hopefully) help in getting a residency. Another huge advantage is that Duke not only puts you on the wards sooner, they give 3 elective periods and an elective within surgery. A lot of places don't even give elective time during their 3rd year, so this is tremendously helpful in gaining exposure to specialties early on so you'll have an easier time deciding before 4th year. On the other hand, I have to study A LOT more than my boyfriend does and I've definitely been plenty jealous of their curriculum when things get particularly stressful. So that's the first question you have to ask you yourself.

Second is the study body. Duke is smaller (102 vs. 160) and the student body tends to be a bit more intense. I love my classmates and we all do tons of stuff together, but they're a little on the intense side, which has been difficult for me to adjust to. My boyfriend's friends seem much more chill, which I tend to get along with better as far as "in the classroom" goes.

And lastly is price. Duke is $35,000 a year in tuition, UNC is $11,000 per year (although cost of living is higher in CH, but not $25,000 worth). Big difference. However, price is the last thing you should take into consideration, in my opinion. I have a classmate who turned down a full scholarship at UNC to go to Duke, whereas my boyfriend and others went the UNC route. If you like everything about the schools equally, then by all means go to UNC. But that's almost impossible to do given how different the schools are.

They're both great schools and you won't be prevented from going anywhere by going to either one of them. However, I should add that there is absolutely nothing like being in Cameron for a Duke basketball game. UNC SUCKS!

Thanks Mr. Burns. It's really great to hear some commentary on the different personalities of the two student bodies.

Can you tell me anything about the differences between the two hospitals, as well as the patient populations?

 

[MrBurns10]

Can you tell me anything about the differences between the two hospitals, as well as the patient populations?

The hospital systems at both is very solid. I honestly don't know enough about them to get into particulars, but Duke does tend to treat a more widespread population. I've met plenty of patients who have come in from all over the country to be treated for something at Duke. This may happen at UNC also, but I doubt it's as common. I think both Duke and UNC seem to cater to the middle to upper class patients, Duke probably moreso. I say this because in Durham there's another hospital (also part of the Duke Health System) called Durham Regional, and they tend to see more of the patients that can't afford healthcare than Duke does. However, Duke has the biggest trauma ER in the area (DR doesn't even have one), so Duke gets most of the good cases. UNC is the only hospital in Chapel Hill so they get pretty much everyone from that area, but on the other hand, Chapel Hill's population is generally richer than Durham's. Also, UNC has a burn center whereas Duke does not, so all burn patients go there.

Also, a note about the MD/JD and MD/MBA at Duke...they do offer both and a few students tend to do that per year, but the problem is you have to pay tuition to both the med school as well as the law/business school, so that option can be pretty pricey.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Just to elaborate on MrBurns' points on the hospitals...

I'd say that Duke Hospital proper caters (in general) to more upper-end patients. However, they do have Durham Regional which (in general) has a little bit lower-income population base, and they are also associated with the VA hospital which obviously has its' own population base.

Both hospitals are tertiary care hospitals that receive referrals from all over eastern NC and parts of VA/SC, they both have Level 1 trauma centers, children's hospitals (not as renowned as some), and cancer centers. As far as EDs go, I haven't really noticed that much of a difference. UNC used to be much nicer (more capacity, better organized), but Duke just finished building a new ED that I haven't seen, so I can't comment.

In addition, UNC gets all the burn patients at their burn center, and they are building a brand-new, big-ass cancer hospital due open in 2010.

As far as locations go, Duke is in an OK part of Durham, though Durham in general is not as nice as Chapel Hill is. However, there is a lot of nice new development in South Durham (along I-40) that is convenient to both Chapel Hill and Durham where many people of both schools stay, though the prices are more along the line of Chapel Hill's. Of course, you get what you pay for.

As far as medical schools go, I'd say go to UNC unless you have a special hankering to do a year of research or are a glutton for a year of basic science punishment. As far as class dynamics go, I'd agree with MrBurns assessment, sans the attractiveness factor. She's clearly delusional. UNC's class is a bit older and therefore probably has a bit more diversity as far as job experience, other degrees, families, etc. I'd say that this results in what I'd say in my experience is a bit more maturity, but I wouldn't want the Duke students throwing a temper tantrum 😉

 

[MrBurns10]

I'd say that this results in what I'd say in my experience is a bit more maturity, but I wouldn't want the Duke students throwing a temper tantrum 😉

Touche, salesman. I have had some issues with immaturity to a certain degree with a few Duke students because they seem kind of full of themselves. But this isn't really the norm, just the bad apples that I mentioned before (and these exist at every school), and I don't know as many UNC students to comment on them.

 

[husky0684]

I posed the question of Duke vs. UNC in the context of a more general debate of public versus private (there are many other examples, eg LSU versus Tulane, Emory vs. Medical College of Georgia, JHU versus UMaryland etc..) to a few different advisors and active physicians and always received the same sort of reply: if you know you want to do more investigative, specialized medicine that has a research component then hands down go to the bigger named private school which will allow you better access to perform your own research/publications to set you up to attain those residencies and fellowships that are required for more specialized research-based, possibly academic medicine whereas if you know you want to do a more traditional path in medicine such as private practice or primary care then choose the state school because the name of school/research behind you really is not going to get you anything additional for these residencies so you might as well save yourself from paying the steep private tuition....so basically a candidate for medical school should really evaluate what type of medicine they see themselves in and choose the public vs private based on that...i know a lot of this is obvious and said in MANY other posts but those in UNC/Duke med now, what are your thoughts on this?

 

[MrBurns10]

i know a lot of this is obvious and said in MANY other posts but those in UNC/Duke med now, what are your thoughts on this?

I agree, although I would say that if said private school and state schools are VERY different in terms of reputation, then there could be a difference worth the price. I was more than ready to go to my state school (which was ranked about 50 or 55) than a couple top 20 schools that I got into, at least until I got into Duke. That was also because I liked my state school just as much AND was cheaper. But you really can go anywhere from any med school provided you do well, but there is a bit less pressure to separate yourself from the crowd at a higher ranked school. But in terms of Duke vs UNC both schools have great reps that I wouldn't let that enter the equation.

Having said that, I really do think price should be the last of your considerations if you really like the private school better than the cheaper school. If you're going into private practice, as long as you don't go into general IM or FM, paying back loans shouldn't be much of a problem. Besides, many private schools have great financial aid packages that it can cost about as much to go there as it would to go to the state school.

 

[Chulito]

...if you know you want to do more investigative, specialized medicine that has a research component then hands down go to the bigger named private school which will allow you better access to perform your own research/publications to set you up to attain those residencies and fellowships that are required for more specialized research-based, possibly academic medicine whereas if you know you want to do a more traditional path in medicine such as private practice or primary care then choose the state school because the name of school/research behind you really is not going to get you anything additional for these residencies so you might as well save yourself from paying the steep private tuition...

Hmmmm, but UNC is certainly no slouch in research--#20 in US News, and amazing to see in person. And what of schools like UCSF, U of Washington, UCLA and U of Michigan (ranked #4, #7, and tied for #11 respectively by US News in research, and thus slightly ahead, basically tied and only slightly behind Duke)? These schools are consistently highly ranked, not just one-year flukes. U of Washington is second in the country only to Harvard in the amount of NIH funding it receives. And UCSF and UW are the *only* schools to consistently rank in the top ten in both primary care and research year after year (if that matters to you). Yet national-calibre public schools are routinely regarded as inferior to their private counterparts. I'm not going to ask whether people think that this is right or wrong, but I am curious to know whether people think that it makes a difference when the time comes to apply for super competitive residencies. Sure, the guy on the street will always think of Harvard as far superior to UCSF and UW (even on the streets of SF and Seattle) because of the historical name value; but is a candidate from either of those schools really at a disadvantage relative to a Duke graduate in the eyes of better informed residency directors? I have no idea, but i'm curious. Even at UNC, would the enterprising student really suffer from a lack of opportunities to engage in top-notch research and publish articles? I can't imagine.

 

[TommyGunn04]

I'm a recent graduate of Duke Med. I used to give tours and was on the admissions committee, so I've thought about and talked about these sorts of comparisions quite a bit. There have been several great points raised here, but I'd like to raise another important consideration.

Namely, the difference between schools like Duke and UNC is arguably more significant for students who end up applying to very competitive fields (radiology, ophthalmology, dermatology, surgery, ENT, neurosurgery, etc.). These fields have become so difficult to match into that going to a "tip-top school" like Duke can carry some serious weight in the interview and application process. From what I've seen from match lists, the "average" Duke Med student can more easily match into a competitive field than the "average" UNC student. To put it differently, if you know you're likely headed into an uber-competitive field, it may be more difficult to match coming out of UNC unless you're right up at the top of your class, in AOA, etc. This is VERY difficult to achieve! On the other hand, it's probably not as tough to be an average Duke student once you're admitted. A few years ago Duke matched 16 people into radiology, out of a class of 90 or so. These sorts of match statistics are pretty unheard of at schools outside the top 10 or so but are the trend at Duke. You also probably won't have the same opportunities to get exposure to these more specialized fields at UNC, where the focus is much more on primary care. On the other hand, if you're more interested in community-based, general, and/or primary care medicine, UNC is VERY reputable in this regard and would provide perhaps even better training for fugure generalists.

With regards to the hospitals, it's also important to recognize that Duke is an entirely public hospital (I'm not sure how it works at UNC). We see anyone and everyone regardless of their ability to pay, and there are no "private patients" as with other institutions. Residents and students pretty much take care of everyone, aside from some of the PA-run or hospitalist services that just help with overflow when it's really busy. As a result, Duke very actively serves the poor population of Durham as well as the elite, and the degree of autonomy that residents and students have is among the best. There's a good number of Spanish speaking patients here as well, which helps round out the experience. Everyone gets private rooms and great care no matter what. And being a major tertiary care center, there are probably a lot more unusual "zebras" that come through Duke. It's definitely been a great place to train.

I chose Duke because I loved the curriculum. It's perhaps most important to think about how you learn best, as the curricular styles of Duke and UNC are VERY different. If you're more of a hands-on learner, Duke is probably the place for you . If you're interested in doing lots of PBL, you won't find that at Duke. But don't make the mistake of thinking that Duke somehow crams 2 years of material into 1 year. I hear that a lot, and it's frankly just not true. Do a search for some of my prior posts for a more detailed explanation. Basically, Duke streamlines the material and omits many topics that simply aren't necessary to do well on the boards or in residency. Having been through it now, I'm really glad to have gotten onto the wards a year sooner, and don't feel that I missed out on anything by not having a 2nd pre-clinical year.

Ultimately, it works out either way, but each institution has its strengths. In order to make an informed and good decision, you need to consider your particular interests, learning style, and career aspirations. I hope that helps! Feel free to PM me or post any follow-up questions here.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

i know a lot of this is obvious and said in MANY other posts but those in UNC/Duke med now, what are your thoughts on this?

First of all, breathe. Everybody loves sentences, regardless of where you go to school.

Who knows how much factor name plays into residencies. Probably about the same as undergraduate schools for medical school. It's more about the people you know in whatever field you want to go into that can vouch for you.

Part of the reason I went to UNC is that I (and many others) felt that I could get a similar quality of education and opportunities as I could at Duke. Michigan is another extraordinary public school. Not to belittle anyone at those schools, but I think if I had to choose between Duke and somewhere slightly less well-known such as ECU, for instance, I would have chosen Duke.

I definitely don't feel like I'm at a loss for opportunities being at UNC. It has a lot of resources and has its' hand in a lot of research, and while I don't know that I necessarily want to do research long-term, I like having that option available to me, as I would at Duke.