duke

[CTtarheel]

He shouldnt have been in the game. If Carolina had any class at all they wouldn't try to run up the score after a solid win. They would take their goldenboy out.

are you f'ing kidding me! Who's the team who's still fouling when you're down by 12 with 30 seconds left. So you're saying that by leaving the starters in they deserve to get cheaply fouled for no reason whatsoever?

The fact that coach k even mentioned this demonstrates his lack of class. Truly great coaches like Roy Williams or Dean Smith would never have put their player in the position of delivering a hard foul when a game is obviously lost, let alone try to defend the action based on a star player simply being in the game. You'd have to look for a Bobby Knight protege to do something like that . . .

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[Eric Lindros]

To keep this medical school-related, I would say that since the majority of students didn't let the lacrosse scandal keep them from coming to Duke Med, I would seriously doubt that a hard foul in a basketball game would keep students away from the school. And regardless of personal biases, Duke Med graduates score well on the boards, match well, and are generally well-regarded. You don't get to be #6 for nothing.

You are right, Duke is a good medical school but if you know your history it has nothing to do with the students making it that way.

Ages ago, a little podunk school named Duke decided to use a tactic used by many ivy league schools: attract wealthy families and admit their kids (regardless of talent) and get them to donate money. The med school is relatively new compared to most and used that money and reputation (from the undergrad) to build itself to what it is.

All that aside, I agree that chosing or not chosing Duke Med based on sports is stupid

 

[MrBurns10]

Ages ago, a little podunk school named Duke decided to use a tactic used by many ivy league schools: attract wealthy families and admit their kids (regardless of talent) and get them to donate money. The med school is relatively new compared to most and used that money and reputation to build itself to what it is.

What's your point? So Duke did what most private schools do to build its reputation. Duke is younger than the ivies. It doesn't change the fact that Duke provides an excellent education and that the vast vast majority of its students are on financial aid.

I absolutely detest the notion that Duke is so "elitist" because it costs $40K to go there and is located in a relatively poor town. Duke is NO different than every other private school. Most students who go there go there with financial help. Duke has absolutely no need to defend its honor to people who have no idea what they're talking about or to people who think Duke is SO different from the other thousands of private schools in this country, yet that's exactly what its students and administration find themselves always having to do. It's ridiculous and annoying.

 

[Dookter]

Ages ago, a little podunk school named Duke decided to use a tactic used by many ivy league schools: attract wealthy families and admit their kids (regardless of talent) and get them to donate money. The med school is relatively new compared to most and used that money and reputation to build itself to what it is.

That's where you're wrong. Duke as a university did in fact use shady admissions practices to raise $$. It's the same thing that basically all other elite schools do. I don't like it, and I think admissions should be strictly merit based....but whatever. The truth about DukeMed is that it became a great program through money first donated by Mr. Duke himself and through the recruitment of the best people they could find to set up a medical center. The man in charge was Dr. Davison, a protege of Osler himself. From what I have read about it, everything just sort of snow-balled from that point until where Duke is today. The story is truly inspiring, and I'd encourage you to read about it. DukeMed absolutely did not become great through the shady admissions standards. Before you start talking crap, at least get the history right....oh, and I should mention that those shady admissions practices are for undergrads.....

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

are you f'ing kidding me! Who's the team who's still fouling when you're down by 12 with 30 seconds left. So you're saying that by leaving the starters in they deserve to get cheaply fouled for no reason whatsoever?

The fact that coach k even mentioned this demonstrates his lack of class. Truly great coaches like Roy Williams or Dean Smith would never have put their player in the position of delivering a hard foul when a game is obviously lost, let alone try to defend the action based on a star player simply being in the game. You'd have to look for a Bobby Knight protege to do something like that . . .

I wondered how long it would take for a UNC fan to show up here The blame argument is going to be circular here: Why was Hansbrough in? Why was Henderson in? What happened, happened. If you look at Coach K's quote, he said something like "It's a shame that those players were in," not "It's a shame Hansbrough was still in." I think he probably regretted the fact that both teams still had their starters in at that point (though Henderson didn't actually start).

Also, people give Coach K crap for working the refs during games, but even my dad (die-hard UNC fan for 50 years) admitted that Coach K learned everything he knew in that department from Dean Smith

 

[Eric Lindros]

That's where you're wrong. Duke as a university did in fact use shady admissions practices to raise $$. It's the same thing that basically all other elite schools do. I don't like it, and I think admissions should be strictly merit based....but whatever. The truth about DukeMed is that it became a great program through money first donated by Mr. Duke himself and through the recruitment of the best people they could find to set up a medical center. The man in charge was Dr. Davison, a protege of Osler himself. From what I have read about it, everything just sort of snow-balled from that point until where Duke is today. The story is truly inspiring, and I'd encourage you to read about it. DukeMed absolutely did not become great through the shady admissions standards. Before you start talking crap, at least get the history right....oh, and I should mention that those shady admissions practices are for undergrads.....

I am sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like the med school used the same admission standards as the undergrad did - not true at all (thank God) That is an undergrad phenomenon

The reputation and wealth of the undergraduate school did, however, play a huge part in founding the building the medical school. After all, you can't recruit the best people without a little bit of cash to help you out...

 

[Dookter]

I am sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like the med school used the same admission standards as the undergrad did - not true at all (thank God) That is an undergrad phenomenon

The reputation and wealth of the undergraduate school did, however, play a huge part in founding the building the medical school. After all, you can't recruit the best people without a little bit of cash to help you out...

The problem with your argument [from what I heard from a long NPR story about Duke's admissions stuff one day] is that you're talking about two completely different time periods. From what I understand, Duke wanted to launch themselves from being a top school of the South to being one of the top schools in the world. The craziest admissions stories seem to come from no earlier than the 1970's [really 1980's from what I have heard]. DukeMed was already founded, built, and on its way by that point. I definitely agree with you that it's crappy how Duke raised $$. And it's not like it doesn't still go on today. It goes on at all schools. Duke just seems to have done its fair share of "catching up." And sure, DukeMed probably was helped by money rolling into the university. I'm just pointing out that the medical center was certainly not built around money from these shady practices. Thankfully, it was built around the right people doing the right things at the right times.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

He shouldnt have been in the game. If Carolina had any class at all they wouldn't try to run up the score after a solid win. They would take their goldenboy out.

are you f'ing kidding me! Who's the team who's still fouling when you're down by 12 with 30 seconds left. So you're saying that by leaving the starters in they deserve to get cheaply fouled for no reason whatsoever?

The fact that coach k even mentioned this demonstrates his lack of class. Truly great coaches like Roy Williams or Dean Smith would never have put their player in the position of delivering a hard foul when a game is obviously lost, let alone try to defend the action based on a star player simply being in the game. You'd have to look for a Bobby Knight protege to do something like that . . .

no dude. im not implying that at all. if you look at the foul carefully... watch henderson's eyes... he wasn't trying to elbow tyler in the face at all... it was purely accidental.

im just saying that he shouldnt have been in the game at that point. no one deserves a hard foul like that. of course no one does. you have to realize it was accidental. if you dont want to realize that, then dont. even roy admitted that the foul was accidental. you need to realize that everyone that bleeds blue is not inherently evil. i respect UNC and their program, is that so hard for you to reciprocate?

 

[MrBurns10]

the medical center was certainly not built around money from these shady practices.

Haha you make it sound like the Duke administration for the undergrad stood on street corners selling crack to middle schoolers in order to raise money. I'm guessing that was plan B.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Duke fans have made fun of DJ.

man, ive been to at least a handful of duke-maryland games in cameron (in the crazie section) and not once.. NOT ONCE has there every been a cheer making fun of DJ referencing his dad. We may make fun of an airball or something like that but thats harmless.

If there are some dumba$$ dukies that would want to make such terrible hateful remarks then they'd be silenced. duke line monitors hand out creative cheers before games AS WELL AS reminders to not make hateful remarks. there is a strict STRICT code not to make fun of personal issues such as things related to drugs, family issues, and whatnot.

 

[Dookter]

Haha you make it sound like the Duke administration for the undergrad stood on street corners selling crack to middle schoolers in order to raise money. I'm guessing that was plan B.

Have you heard how they did things? It was pretty crappy. It happens everywhere, but it still sucks. I forgot who the one guy was, but he would basically force admit people based on how much money they had....pretty ridiculous. But hell, the Kennedy clan all went to Harvard with C's, so I think Duke is just late to play hardball like the other schools....

 

[Stolenspatulas]

May I also remind all of the "classy" Duke fans out there of your student section chanting "Crackhead parents" at Juan Dixon? I'll fill the rest of you in. Juan Dixon grew up with two heroin addicts for parents. Both were dead from AIDS by the time he was 17. REAL CLASSY. Get over yourselves. I'm not saying anyone is perfect, but I'm tired of hearing how Duke fans are just better fans than everyone else b/c they are inherently "classy".

Oh my. those cheers dont happen. crazies dont claim to be anything. we're fans just like everyone else. i do know for certain that cheers such as those are not tolerated in cameron.

no one is inherently classy. coach K forces it upon the student section to not ever cross the line {and im not kidding}

 

[topdogg82]

on the notion of duke admitting "undeserving" rich kids whose parents would donate money- yea, it is an unfortunate part of the admissions system, but guess what, if you're gonna criticize us for it, might as well go ahead and criticize the ivies and similar top schools. duke certainly cannot be singled out as 'elitist.' for example, harvard for one actually has a "z-list" for rich kids they want to accept, which basically is a one-year waitlist where they tell the kids they can come after one year of deferral. you don't think all these schools got these big endowments b/c of luck? and part of this money goes to financial aid to help kids who can't put up 45k- it's not like the school is using the money to buy crack or something

 

[gujuDoc]

on the notion of duke admitting "undeserving" rich kids whose parents would donate money- yea, it is an unfortunate part of the admissions system, but guess what, if you're gonna criticize us for it, might as well go ahead and criticize the ivies and similar top schools. duke certainly cannot be singled out as 'elitist.' for example, harvard for one actually has a "z-list" for rich kids they want to accept, which basically is a one-year waitlist where they tell the kids they can come after one year of deferral. you don't think all these schools got these big endowments b/c of luck? and part of this money goes to financial aid to help kids who can't put up 45k- it's not like the school is using the money to buy crack or something

Not just the IVies, but a lot of other schools to have had cases at several points in their years of existence where name and money of relatives have carried applicants far.

 

[thebeatblitz]

This thread is hilarious. Hansbrough shouldn't have even been in the game let alone running up the score. Hard foul? Yes. Intentional foul? Maybe. That's the point of taking out your best players at the end of deadtime play.

If you think Coach K isn't going to defend his players, then you're on something. He's also one of the nicest pseudo-celebrities i've ever met. Roy wasn't bad either.

Duke has rivalries with all the ACC teams, but UNC is the tobacco road rivalry and thus gets the most press.

Yes, Maryland got us with their planted misinformation on the cheer sheet. The cheer sheet was a stupid idea anyways, and I never liked it when they really started pushing it.

There will always be haters, but i've never had any problem with the tons of kids I know at UNC and Maryland. Most of you are third parties looking in on a dynamic you'll never really understand.

 

[crash2500]

This thread is hilarious. Hansbrough shouldn't have even been in the game let alone running up the score. Hard foul? Yes. Intentional foul? Maybe. That's the point of taking out your best players at the end of deadtime play.

so cuz he is in the game it is OK to break his nose?
why shouldnt he have been in the game? cuz the game was over as K suggested? then why was duke full court pressing, shooting threes, and fouling with 17 seconds left, not to mention that nelson, scheyer, and hendeson were still in the game and McRoberts fouled out on that play.

lets look at duke's players iin at the end of games

At the end of a 71-56 victory over Air Force
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Nelson, Scheyer, McClure

At the end of a 57-45 win over Holy Cross
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, Zoubek,
Pocious, McClure, Nelson

At the end of a 69-53 win over George Mason
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Scheyer, Thomas, Pocious

At the end of a 86-63 win over Miami
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McClure,
Henderson, Pocious, Davidson

At the end of 62-40 win over Wake Forest
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Henderson, Nelson, Scheyer

At the end of a 75-61 win over Boston College
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Nelson, Henderson, Scheyer


Duke subs in real blowouts


In the Wake Forest game this year (Duke 62, Wake 40), McRoberts had a dunk
with 51 seconds to play ahead by 19, and Paulus made a three-point field goal with eight seconds to play.

so it woulda been ok if this happend to a duke player in one of these games. also how else do u think redick got the acc scoring record? cuz k-rat left him in till the final buzzer in 40 point blowouts.

 

[thebeatblitz]

When did I say it was OK to break his nose? This is a contact sport with contact injuries. A decision was made to play Hansbrough, whose game is inside, and you live with your decisions despite hindsight being 20/20.

Also comparing the playtime of a 1/2 guard perimeter player to a dominant middle man is ludicrous. What are the chances of injury on a 3 vs. going up for a putback? I think the proof is in front of you.

 

[CTtarheel]

The thing is that the game was lost period. Dook shouldn't have been fouling in the first place, and they had no business carelessly delivering hard fouls. There's a time and a place for hard fouls, and it's certainly not when the game you're playing is obviously lost. Coach K's attempt to blame this on Tyler is simply typical of his total lack of class.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

The thing is that the game was lost period. Dook shouldn't have been fouling in the first place, and they had no business carelessly delivering hard fouls. There's a time and a place for hard fouls, and it's certainly not when the game you're playing is obviously lost. Coach K's attempt to blame this on Tyler is simply typical of his total lack of class.

wow. just wow. nobody is blaming it on tyler. the foul was not intentional. period. please find me a direct quote stating that coach K believes the foul was tyler's fault. exactly.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

so cuz he is in the game it is OK to break his nose?
why shouldnt he have been in the game? cuz the game was over as K suggested? then why was duke full court pressing, shooting threes, and fouling with 17 seconds left, not to mention that nelson, scheyer, and hendeson were still in the game and McRoberts fouled out on that play.

lets look at duke's players iin at the end of games

At the end of a 71-56 victory over Air Force
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Nelson, Scheyer, McClure

At the end of a 57-45 win over Holy Cross
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, Zoubek,
Pocious, McClure, Nelson

At the end of a 69-53 win over George Mason
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Scheyer, Thomas, Pocious

At the end of a 86-63 win over Miami
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McClure,
Henderson, Pocious, Davidson

At the end of 62-40 win over Wake Forest
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Henderson, Nelson, Scheyer

At the end of a 75-61 win over Boston College
On the floor for Duke when the final buzzer sounded: Paulus, McRoberts,
Nelson, Henderson, Scheyer


Duke subs in real blowouts


In the Wake Forest game this year (Duke 62, Wake 40), McRoberts had a dunk
with 51 seconds to play ahead by 19, and Paulus made a three-point field goal with eight seconds to play.

so it woulda been ok if this happend to a duke player in one of these games. also how else do u think redick got the acc scoring record? cuz k-rat left him in till the final buzzer in 40 point blowouts.

if you've ever watched a duke game in your life you'd know that duke plays slow down offense if there's a sizable lead entering the second half. very few dominant teams do that.

btw, no team thats losing takes out their starters and admits defeat. you have to let your starters deal with the pain of the loss. even if the probability of a win seems to be zilch.

to maryland fans: remember jay will's 1-minute miracle? yea, even if there's seemingly zero chance to win, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

 

[8744]

Also, in case you guys haven't been following the case, Duke, like large, politically correct institutions always do, behaved shamefully by presuming the guilt of those guys accused of raping that woman who has now turned out to be, well, a lying crack ***** who was used by Mike Nifong for further his political career.

That's why you folk's loyalty to your schools is so inexplicable. Duke, Dartmouth, LSU, Lousiana Tech...it makes no difference...they will sell you up the river at the first sign of trouble to their peaceful bureaucratic kingdom.

**** Duke and every place like it. They are just diploma mills set up to extract money in exchange for (hopefully) an education. All the rest is smoke, mirrors, and marketing aimed at a bunch of suckers (you, your parents, etc.).

And yes, I'm in a ranting mood today.

 

[MrBurns10]

Also, in case you guys haven't been following the case, Duke, like large, politically correct institutions always do, behaved shamefully by presuming the guilt of those guys accused of raping that woman who has now turned out to be, well, a lying crack ***** who was used by Mike Nifong for further his political career.

I agree with you completely that Nifong is an ass and the case is essentially case closed. But Duke did NOT "presume the guilt" of the guys who were accused. I think the president of the school was completely within reason of canceling the season...if 40 players on one team were in the midst of a serious investigation, that's not the time to be playing games (literally). They weren't presuming anything. Also, the two players who hadn't yet graduated were suspended from the school because that's school policy and is in place FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY. Any student who is convicted of a felony is suspended because they don't want that student's safety to be at risk. It says so right in the rules of the school.

I do, however, completely agree that there were some members of the Duke community who did presume the guilt of those guys, especially one particular professor of African American studies (I believe). Trust me, he's gotten a ton of **** over his escapade. But the administration did not, I assure you.

 

[8744]

I agree with you completely that Nifong is an ass and the case is essentially case closed. But Duke did NOT "presume the guilt" of the guys who were accused. I think the president of the school was completely within reason of canceling the season...if 40 players on one team were in the midst of a serious investigation, that's not the time to be playing games (literally). They weren't presuming anything. Also, the two players who hadn't yet graduated were suspended from the school because that's school policy and is in place FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY. Any student who is convicted of a felony is suspended because they don't want that student's safety to be at risk. It says so right in the rules of the school.

I do, however, completely agree that there were some members of the Duke community who did presume the guilt of those guys, especially one particular professor of African American studies (I believe). Trust me, he's gotten a ton of **** over his escapade. But the administration did not, I assure you.

Whoa. I was there. The entire adminstrative structure of Duke went into paroxysms of guilt and self-immolation in their rush to abase themselves to the usual gang of race hustlers and grievance-mongers. Man. We even got some of the backwash on the medical side of all that politically correct hogwash. Did Duke stand up for its students? Not in the slightest. Every guilty message from the President of the University and all of his myrmidions presumed the guilt of those guys.

A school that supported its students would have said, "**** you, you lying *****. Our boys said they didnt do it and unless you have some proof, **** off."

 

[MrBurns10]

A school that supported its students would have said, "**** you, you lying *****. Our boys said they didnt do it and unless you have some proof, **** off."

You will never see a school or a business doing this. It is true that there was a good amount of political correctness that went on, but it had to. It has to everywhere, particularly if you're being attacked by an entire city. That doesn't mean that the administration presumed the students' guilt. And I'm not talking about your average person who works at Duke, I'm talking about the administration.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Whoa. I was there. The entire adminstrative structure of Duke went into paroxysms of guilt and self-immolation in their rush to abase themselves to the usual gang of race hustlers and grievance-mongers. Man. We even got some of the backwash on the medical side of all that politically correct hogwash. Did Duke stand up for its students? Not in the slightest. Every guilty message from the President of the University and all of his myrmidions presumed the guilt of those guys.

A school that supported its students would have said, "**** you, you lying *****. Our boys said they didnt do it and unless you have some proof, **** off."

Yeah, but then if it turned out she was telling the truth, Duke gets a bunch of crap for being a stereotypical ass-backwards racist, elitist Southern school. It was really a lose-lose situation, and as far as I can tell, they handled the involved students as well as could be expected. How much more media coverage/outraged parents/alumni would there have been if 3 convicted rapists had been allowed to finish out their little lacrosse season and stay in school? It's not Duke's fault that Durham has a corrupt DA who spreads lies in the media and withholds evidence. I'm sure there are tons of false accusations made against athletes at big-name schools every year, the only difference here is that there usually isn't a gullible DA with an agenda to back it up.

 

[topdogg82]

the problem w/ continuing the season last year was w/ the safety for teh players- u can bet the durhamites would have been pissed that the guys were still playing, since most of them assumed the guys were guilty. perhaps some would have even resorted to violence against duke kids, so i think safety was the primary concern. on a more positive note, the lax team is ranked no. 1 this year and killed st. joe's last night!

 

[8744]

Yeah, but then if it turned out she was telling the truth, Duke gets a bunch of crap for being a stereotypical ass-backwards racist, elitist Southern school. It was really a lose-lose situation, and as far as I can tell, they handled the involved students as well as could be expected. How much more media coverage/outraged parents/alumni would there have been if 3 convicted rapists had been allowed to finish out their little lacrosse season and stay in school? It's not Duke's fault that Durham has a corrupt DA who spreads lies in the media and withholds evidence. I'm sure there are tons of false accusations made against athletes at big-name schools every year, the only difference here is that there usually isn't a gullible DA with an agenda to back it up.

Which is sort of my point. Any big institution will throw it's members to the wolves at the first sign of trouble. So why the loyalty?

 

[MSKalltheway]

May I also remind all of the "classy" Duke fans out there of your student section chanting "Crackhead parents" at Juan Dixon? I'll fill the rest of you in. Juan Dixon grew up with two heroin addicts for parents. Both were dead from AIDS by the time he was 17. REAL CLASSY. Get over yourselves. I'm not saying anyone is perfect, but I'm tired of hearing how Duke fans are just better fans than everyone else b/c they are inherently "classy".

This one was actually courtesy of the University of Virginia. Wonderful, wasn't it? I'll part with these words...

GO TERPS

 

[Stolenspatulas]

This one was actually courtesy of the University of Virginia. Wonderful, wasn't it? I'll part with these words...

GO TERPS

thank you. its easy to spread the hate without purpose.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Which is sort of my point. Any big institution will throw it's members to the wolves at the first sign of trouble. So why the loyalty?

You're right, it's kind of a problem with bureaucracy in general. But I guess it also depends on what you mean by loyalty. People's "loyalties" seem to me approximately roughly proportional to how much they received in turn. Duke gave me a pretty good undergraduate education and their basketball team brings me joy every now and then, and in return I support the school and the basketball program. Other people I know didn't particularly enjoy their experience, and so don't feel quite as loyal (as I'm sure the charged lacrosse players might feel).

Though it's not even necessarily an institutional phenomena. Say you as a resident had one of your med students/interns charged with something equally offensive. Say this person did their job passably, had occasional disciplinary problems, and wasn't particularly close to you personally. They haven't really contributed all that much to you in the grand scheme of things. How much compunction would you feel in losing that person? How much of your reputation would you risk on that person? It's always a risk/benefit analysis, whether it's an individual or an institution.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Yeah, but then if it turned out she was telling the truth, Duke gets a bunch of crap for being a stereotypical ass-backwards racist, elitist Southern school. It was really a lose-lose situation, and as far as I can tell, they handled the involved students as well as could be expected. How much more media coverage/outraged parents/alumni would there have been if 3 convicted rapists had been allowed to finish out their little lacrosse season and stay in school? It's not Duke's fault that Durham has a corrupt DA who spreads lies in the media and withholds evidence. I'm sure there are tons of false accusations made against athletes at big-name schools every year, the only difference here is that there usually isn't a gullible DA with an agenda to back it up.

its a ****ty situation. there was no way for the administration to handle it well.

personally, i think anyone who cries rape and is clearly shown to be lying about it (as in this case, repeatedily) should receive the punishment of a rapist. its extremely sad that we live in a world that we have to doubt a woman that states she has been raped. if anything, this woman has made the situation worse for black members in the duke and durham community and for women that have been raped and are scared to stand up.