Eagle Scouts

[coyotelime]

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A good friend of mine wrote about Eagle Scouts in his TMDSAS optional and while the content was great(he talked about clinical exposure and leadership and such), I advised against putting high school experiences for med school apps, seeing as he's no longer active in the organization.

Is it okay to put something from HS if it's significant? Thanks!

 

[coyotelime]

Eagle scouts is one activity that is a bit of an exception, particularly if it led to other significant achievements (e.g. military service). If the experience didn't have a significant influence on other achievements I would suggest leaving it out for a more recent, but equally meaningful, activity. Medical schools want a living picture of who you are, not a stale history of your past.

Okay I'll link him to your response. Thanks for the fast reply!

 

[HipChick]

Eagle scouts is one activity that is a bit of an exception, particularly if it led to other significant achievements (e.g. military service). If the experience didn't have a significant influence on other achievements I would suggest leaving it out for a more recent, but equally meaningful, activity. Medical schools want a living picture of who you are, not a stale history of your past.

I agree. Eagle Scouts shows a culmination of your child, Pre and adolescent years. It, at least in my experience as an interview for other positions, can show your ability to maintain a strong desire to serve the community I've the time span. It is a great honor and most certainly should be included. Did you do Order of the Arrow also? This position demonstrate leadership also, especially in a time when scouting is decreasing.

 

[ccrone]

Eagle scouts is one activity that is a bit of an exception, particularly if it led to other significant achievements (e.g. military service). If the experience didn't have a significant influence on other achievements I would suggest leaving it out for a more recent, but equally meaningful, activity. Medical schools want a living picture of who you are, not a stale history of your past.

I've also heard that Eagle Scout and Gold Award (Girl Scouts equivalent) pretty much "always go" on a CV and/or application. To earn these awards, one has to personally plan, lead, and execute a service project that adds value to the community and is approved by a local governing board of these organizations. If nothing else, it shows significant leadership and definite desire to serve others.

I kept my Gold Award on for those reasons alone. That said, I'm current my daughter's Girl Scout leader and manage cookie sales (ugh!) for about 30 troops in our area. My previous experience with scouting (and thus, my heartfelt belief and support for the mission of the Girl Scouting organization as a whole) definitely influences my continued involvement as a leader. I have to say, I had *no idea* how much time leaders put into their troops until I took it on myself. I owe those women a debt of gratitude!

 

[tenndoc]

i included mine. its something that i am very proud of and that helped to shape who i am

 

[neuro nephrons]

what about if you got an extremely rare opportunity to attend a course that was for students who thought they might want to go into medicine that culminated with being able to watch open heart surgery from a few feet away and you consider it to have played an integral role into why you want to go into medicine?


but it was in HS?



allowable?

 

[LizzyM]

Read the AMCAS instructions. There is no prohibition against listing something from before college on the application. There is the opinion, held by some applicants and some adcom members that you should have so many experiences that are more recent that there just isn't room for ancient history from HS.

Some Eagle Scouts are in love with that honor and believe it will be highly regarded. Some times it is. Sometimes it isn't. Interviewers usually know that it requires a project and asking about that project is going to be semi-interesting because the response, in all likelihood, is going to be interesting and that's the most you can hope for in an interview.

Girl Scout Gold Award?? Ask the average adult what that is and most of them will have no clue. I think that the GS have always had a PR problem compared with BSA.

 

[HipChick]

Girl Scout Gold Award?? Ask the average adult what that is and most of them will have no clue. I think that the GS have always had a PR problem compared with BSA.

100000% agree

 

[weezynation]

Read the AMCAS instructions. There is no prohibition against listing something from before college on the application. There is the opinion, held by some applicants and some adcom members that you should have so many experiences that are more recent that there just isn't room for ancient history from HS.

Some Eagle Scouts are in love with that honor and believe it will be highly regarded. Some times it is. Sometimes it isn't. Interviewers usually know that it requires a project and asking about that project is going to be semi-interesting because the response, in all likelihood, is going to be interesting and that's the most you can hope for in an interview.

Girl Scout Gold Award?? Ask the average adult what that is and most of them will have no clue. I think that the GS have always had a PR problem compared with BSA.

Out of curiosity...it makes sense that adcoms would expect so many recent experiences that there is no room for HS activities. However, I personally have another experience in college (I ran Organic Chemistry recitation for a year) that could go in place of my Eagle Scout award, but I feel like that experience is not that impressive whereas my Eagle Scout award is. I already used all 15 activities, so would it make more sense to use a recent experience that is not very impressive or use my Eagle Scout award? The way I thought about it (and my thinking could be completely wrong) when choosing to put the Eagle Scout award...if I was a non-trad student who graduated 4 years ago and had the most amazing letter of recommendation from a science professor who knew me well and I received an A in the class vs. a recent letter from a professor whom I never spoke to and just got an A in his/her class, I would choose to send the older, yet amazing letter.

 

[ccrone]

100000% agree

I agree as well. Part of it is the fact that it's the Girl Scouts, and they have a PR problem these days in general. They've also changed the name of their signature award several times over the years ("First Class," "Golden Eaglet," "Curved Bar," and "Gold Award" all immediately spring to mind). I wish they'd take the issue seriously and do something about it. Something is seriously wrong when everyone knows what Eagle Scout is, but even people on medical school adcoms have no idea that there is a comparable award for girls/what it is.

 

[LizzyM]

Out of curiosity...it makes sense that adcoms would expect so many recent experiences that there is no room for HS activities. However, I personally have another experience in college (I ran Organic Chemistry recitation for a year) that could go in place of my Eagle Scout award, but I feel like that experience is not that impressive whereas my Eagle Scout award is. I already used all 15 activities, so would it make more sense to use a recent experience that is not very impressive or use my Eagle Scout award? The way I thought about it (and my thinking could be completely wrong) when choosing to put the Eagle Scout award...if I was a non-trad student who graduated 4 years ago and had the most amazing letter of recommendation from a science professor who knew me well and I received an A in the class vs. a recent letter from a professor whom I never spoke to and just got an A in his/her class, I would choose to send the older, yet amazing letter.

Schools that value teaching (e.g. do a lot of PBL or other small group learning) will put more weight on the organic chem recitation leadership than Eagle Scout. If you are >24 years old, I feel like Eagle Scout is ancient history and you shouldn't be resting on those laurels. That's all the more reason (compared with the 19 year old whippersnappers) to use the more recent experience.

 

[ccrone]

Schools that value teaching (e.g. do a lot of PBL or other small group learning) will put more weight on the organic chem recitation leadership than Eagle Scout. If you are >24 years old, I feel like Eagle Scout is ancient history and you shouldn't be resting on those laurels. That's all the more reason (compared with the 19 year old whippersnappers) to use the more recent experience.

This is great feedback and advice. Thanks a thousand times!

 

[Bacchus]

I think it depends on who sees your application. Although Eagle Scout is a distinguished award to have, I don't see it having a huge impact on admissions when GPA and MCAT are at the forefront. There are other fields where I'd see the old guard finding it more valuable/use it as a common connection/etc.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I think it depends on who sees your application. Although Eagle Scout is a distinguished award to have, I don't see it having a huge impact on admissions when GPA and MCAT are at the forefront. There are other fields where I'd see the old guard finding it more valuable/use it as a common connection/etc.

I agree. I listed mine when I applied, but it's not like I was grasping for EC's to list. I had many other legit things but I am pretty proud of being an Eagle Scout. I don't think it will have a huge impact for you, either way.

This is anecdotal, but one of my interviewers was also an Eagle Scout and we talked for most of my 45 minute interview about the scouts, Philmont, Order of the Arrow, etc. I really think it helped me get an acceptance to that school. But I have to admit, unless the person who sees your application has experience with the BSA or respects the award, it likely will lead to nothing.

 

[tenndoc]

I agree. I listed mine when I applied, but it's not like I was grasping for EC's to list. I had many other legit things but I am pretty proud of being an Eagle Scout. I don't think it will have a huge impact for you, either way.

This is anecdotal, but one of my interviewers was also an Eagle Scout and we talked for most of my 45 minute interview about the scouts, Philmont, Order of the Arrow, etc. I really think it helped me get an acceptance to that school. But I have to admit, unless the person who sees your application has experience with the BSA or respects the award, it likely will lead to nothing.

Man I miss philmont. What a hike

 

[tiedyeddog]

Man I miss philmont. What a hike

One of the best times of my life. I hope to do it with my kids, if some of them happen to be boys.

 

[Freeinfinity]

.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

I agree. I listed mine when I applied, but it's not like I was grasping for EC's to list. I had many other legit things but I am pretty proud of being an Eagle Scout. I don't think it will have a huge impact for you, either way.

This is anecdotal, but one of my interviewers was also an Eagle Scout and we talked for most of my 45 minute interview about the scouts, Philmont, Order of the Arrow, etc. I really think it helped me get an acceptance to that school. But I have to admit, unless the person who sees your application has experience with the BSA or respects the award, it likely will lead to nothing.

Same here. I was asked about it in several of my interviews, but it didn't take up more than 10 minutes or so. Most just wanted to know about the project. It wasn't a large part of my application, but I did list it in the activities.

Man I miss philmont. What a hike

Yeah, good times.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

I had mentioned the eagle scout thing in my personal statement, but I also had been a scout leader in my troop through college, so it was an active and ongoing commitment.

 

[Keepitclassy]

Fellow eagle scout here. I agree. Philmont and National Jamboree. Without scouting, my world would be so small as a teenager.

Fellow Eagle Scout as well. Been in scouting since a Tiger Cub 😉

Favorite part of which was definitely Venture Crew (Attended Northern Tier, Philmont, Seabase, Double H, 2010 NSJ as 3rd assistant scoutmaster, Brotherhood OA Member)

I'm still heavily involved in scouting as an adult, even though I achieved the rank of Eagle Scout just over 3 years ago. It's been brought up in nearly every job/volunteer interview I've been a part of and it's definitely something that's garnered instant respect when casually brought up.

I think LizzyM gave some solid advice, if you're far removed from the program without any further service once turning 18/achieving Eagle, then it'll be negligible on the application. I'll definitely be putting it on mine and might incorporate it in my PS in some form or fashion, but I've volunteered over 500+ hours as an adult in various leadership positions and was very involved in the program as a youth.

 

[weezynation]

Schools that value teaching (e.g. do a lot of PBL or other small group learning) will put more weight on the organic chem recitation leadership than Eagle Scout. If you are >24 years old, I feel like Eagle Scout is ancient history and you shouldn't be resting on those laurels. That's all the more reason (compared with the 19 year old whippersnappers) to use the more recent experience.

Yeah that makes sense. I never wouldve expected the Organic Chemistry activity to be significant. I became an Eagle Scout when I was 15 so it would still be pretty old even if I was 19. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[DrHankMD]

My interviewer at one school (an older guy) made a point of saying that at that school they had always thought really highly of Eagle Scouts and that it demonstrated strong dedication over a number of years and a commitment to service. To me, its a much more impressive accomplishment than giving a research presentation or some of the other minor activities that end up on most people's applications. It's also much more interesting and good to talk about during interviews.

 

[LizzyM]

My interviewer at one school (an older guy) made a point of saying that at that school they had always thought really highly of Eagle Scouts and that it demonstrated strong dedication over a number of years and a commitment to service. To me, its a much more impressive accomplishment than giving a research presentation or some of the other minor activities that end up on most people's applications. It's also much more interesting and good to talk about during interviews.

And their membership is not open to girls (they do have female leadership) or to gay men so some people don't believe that they should choose Eagle Scouts over other otherwise qualified candidates.

 

[ccrone]

And their membership is not open to girls (they do have female leadership) or to gay men so some people don't believe that they should choose Eagle Scouts over other otherwise qualified candidates.

I never thought of it this way, but definitely an excellent point.

 

[littlemage897]

First post, but Eagle Scout helped me tremendously. n=1, but it was one of the very first experiences I was asked to describe at Hopkins and similar schools, even with research, study abroad, etc. The emphasis was on leadership. Especially if done over many years, it can demonstrate leadership over time, ability to work successfully within a hierarchy and toward public service, and application of oneself across many varied skill sets (from being an SPL to the Philmont experience).

 

[gettheleadout]

Keep in mind that if you have a Work/Activities section dedicated to Awards/Honors/etc. then you can always slip "Eagle Scout 20XX" or similar into the list within. No need to take up an entire section and no real need for explanation further unless you so desire.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Keep in mind that if you have a Work/Activities section dedicated to Awards/Honors/etc. then you can always slip "Eagle Scout 20XX" or similar into the list within. No need to take up an entire section and no real need for explanation further unless you so desire.

I believe this is what I did. I wasn't active in the BSA during college and didn't feel it deserved a whole activity section.

 

[LizzyM]

First post, but Eagle Scout helped me tremendously. n=1, but it was one of the very first experiences I was asked to describe at Hopkins and similar schools, even with research, study abroad, etc. The emphasis was on leadership. Especially if done over many years, it can demonstrate leadership over time, ability to work successfully within a hierarchy and toward public service, and application of oneself across many varied skill sets (from being an SPL to the Philmont experience).

For a lazy interviewer, or one that wants to soften up the applicant before getting to the nitty-gritty, Eagle Scouts is a soft ball question. Most of us have had some experience either ourselves or through siblings, offspring, other relatives, or friends such that we can carry on a conversation about it for 5 minutes.

 

[littlemage897]

For a lazy interviewer, or one that wants to soften up the applicant before getting to the nitty-gritty, Eagle Scouts is a soft ball question. Most of us have had some experience either ourselves or through siblings, offspring, other relatives, or friends such that we can carry on a conversation about it for 5 minutes.

Fair enough. Although I would personally hesitate to say that what is (for some) a 5+ year leadership experience is not one of the more important career & character-building aspects to be discussed. From an interview perspective, I agree that it could go either way, depending on how it's framed and what has come of it since. I'll also add that, after acceptance to Hopkins, it was indicated to me that this experience was one of the primary reasons. Again, n=1. But I would definitely mention it!

 

[tiedyeddog]

For a lazy interviewer, or one that wants to soften up the applicant before getting to the nitty-gritty, Eagle Scouts is a soft ball question. Most of us have had some experience either ourselves or through siblings, offspring, other relatives, or friends such that we can carry on a conversation about it for 5 minutes.

I think LizzyM is revealing her BSA-hate a little in this thread....

Not all of us boy scouts are homophobic zealots... It's entrenched in the BSA and can only change once most of the "old guard" dies off. I suspect many kids earning Eagle within the past few years also would like to see this changed (I sure as hell would).

 

[Mjolner]

I disagree, LizzyM is just telling you the truth that she sees in her daily experience as an adcom. If we want to know what adcoms think, her advice is gold. If her experience causes her to develop an opinion that differs from what you believe or hope to hear, you can't attack her for it. Sometimes, the truth isn't always what we want to hear.

 

[ccrone]

I think LizzyM is revealing her BSA-hate a little in this thread....

Not all of us boy scouts are homophobic zealots... It's entrenched in the BSA and can only change once most of the "old guard" dies off. I suspect many kids earning Eagle within the past few years also would like to see this changed (I sure as hell would).

I didn't get a "hate BSA" vibe in her posts. I think she was pointing out that she's skeptical of giving too much weight to awards that are only available to certain parts of the population. As she noted, she hadn't even *heard* of the comparable award available to women in scouting.

I think what she was trying to get across is that one should tread VERY careful when giving tons of weight to awards that aren't available to everyone. Lots of people (including adcom members) have major emotional attachment to Boy Scouting, and that's totally fine. But I do think it's important to be aware of that sentimental feeling, and try to avoid situations where people are accepted to medical school solely on the basis of Eagle Scout.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I didn't get a "hate BSA" vibe in her posts. I think she was pointing out that she's skeptical of giving too much weight to awards that are only available to certain parts of the population. As she noted, she hadn't even *heard* of the comparable award available to women in scouting.

If you want to discount it because it's done it high school, I agree, that's a very good reason.

I don't agree with discounting it just because it isn't offered to females. Should I be pissed that males aren't able to get the NCAA softball player of the year award?

Gay males can become eagle scouts, they just can't be extremely open about it. Up until a year or two ago, gay service people were not allowed in the armed forces. Should we have discredited those who served because the organization they belonged to as a whole didn't allow openly gay service members?

After all, we're evaluating individuals here. Holding a bias against the individual for what the organization they have little control over doesn't make sense. The individual might support gay, athiests being allowed into the BSA.

No one in this thread is saying hang your hat on an Eagle Scout award. If you're doing that then you deserve to fail.

 

[coyotelime]

Aside from the last few off-topic posts, thanks for all the great responses!

This is for a friend and he's writing about Eagle Scouts in his 2nd essay for TMDSAS. He thanks you all too.

 

[235788]

Aside from the last few off-topic posts, thanks for all the great responses!

This is for a friend and he's writing about Eagle Scouts in his 2nd essay for TMDSAS. He thanks you all too.

yeah its always "for a friend"

 

[Mjolner]

yeah its always "for a friend"

Speaking of friends... Anyone know how to get blood stains off of the wall and perhaps where I can rent a wood chipper? Asking for a friend.

 

[gettheleadout]

Also...don't forget that Eagle Scouts earn, on average, $250,000 more over the course of their lifetime than their non-Eagle peers. 😀

So like six grand a year more?

 

[coyotelime]

yeah its always "for a friend"

No I'm not an Eagle Scout, scout's honor 😛

You can look at my other threads. When I have a question, I just ask.

 

[Danbo1957]

We count Eagle Scout as a positive. All achievements matter.