ED security

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miacomet

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Our group staffs two hospitals, one of which doesn't have security of any kind. I have declined to work there due to the security situation. They are now requiring us to work there, and decline to hire security despite one recent death (unclear if security could have prevented it) and over 300 calls to the police last year. The rest of the group agrees there needs to be security, but refuses to do anything about it aside from whine.

Open to advice, thoughts, and ideas. I don't feel comfortable working there without security. My job is great in every other way.
 
Get everyone to say no to shifts without any form of security. Or, quit. Otherwise you don't have much to say about it. I guess you could file an OSHA claim about safety at work and then the hospital will take it seriously. And they'll also hate you and actively try to get you fired.
Calling the cops nearly every day? For security issues? That sounds pretty terrible honestly.
 
I know. It's insane. Colleagues won't strike. No other jobs in my state, so quitting is a big deal.
 
Let me say plenty of admin types dont take this seriously other than moving their lips. I would make sure your medical director has emails sent to hospital admin (or better yet put it on the agenda for a dept meeting) stating what you have above. If they still wont help well.. when something happens they will have to loosen up those purse strings.

Had a bad incident locally here, ED charge RN with ICH from a patient.. that site still without security.. This is their employee.. insanity.
 
EctopicFetus said:
Let me say plenty of admin types dont take this seriously other than moving their lips. I would make sure your medical director has emails sent to hospital admin (or better yet put it on the agenda for a dept meeting) stating what you have above. If they still wont help well.. when something happens they will have to loosen up those purse strings.

Had a bad incident locally here, ED charge RN with ICH from a patient.. that site still without security.. This is their employee.. insanity.
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Discussed with hospital admin at a department meeting, they don't care. Say they "don't have the budget" for security. I noted that if they don't have the budget for security, they don't have a budget to have an ER. I told admin and directors that due to previous incidents I would prefer not to work at that site; they said "we need to share the danger." I said if there is staffing emergency at that hospital, then hire security and it will be resolved.

I was involved in a previous incident at our primary site that ended up with us getting security. That was an expensive incident with several worker's comp claims, and they don't think they need security at our secondary site.

There was a shooting on campus not long ago and they still state they don't need security.

I realize there's nothing I can do, but it's insane. What annoys me is that this will eventually be solved, partially by my leaving, but there's nothing I can do about that.
 
miacomet said:
Discussed with hospital admin at a department meeting, they don't care. Say they "don't have the budget" for security. I noted that if they don't have the budget for security, they don't have a budget to have an ER. I told admin and directors that due to previous incidents I would prefer not to work at that site; they said "we need to share the danger." I said if there is staffing emergency at that hospital, then hire security and it will be resolved.

I was involved in a previous incident at our primary site that ended up with us getting security. That was an expensive incident with several worker's comp claims, and they don't think they need security at our secondary site.

There was a shooting on campus not long ago and they still state they don't need security.

I realize there's nothing I can do, but it's insane. What annoys me is that this will eventually be solved, partially by my leaving, but there's nothing I can do about that.
Click to expand...

Man...I don't know what kind of gig you've got but perhaps it's time to move on to something...safer? Everything you've described about your current job situation sets off massive alarms in my head. There's no way I'd work at a site where I legitimately had security concerns about myself or my staff. It's just not worth it... You give it your all to save lives, the last thing you should have to worry about is your own during a shift.
 
Groove said:
Man...I don't know what kind of gig you've got but perhaps it's time to move on to something...safer? Everything you've described about your current job situation sets off massive alarms in my head. There's no way I'd work at a site where I legitimately had security concerns about myself or my staff. It's just not worth it... You give it your all to save lives, the last thing you should have to worry about is your own during a shift.
Click to expand...

I know. It just means leaving my state. It's a "rural" ER so they think it's low-risk, but that's of course not the case- just as much psych, guns, and drugs as anywhere else. Is the chance of a major incident that high? Can security really stop one? Probably not, but they won't even do window dressing for their own reputation. It's a huge hospital system that has deemed security unnecessary in any rural site. It's just bizarre.

As I said, I'd hate to move, but this is nuts.
 
miacomet said:
Discussed with hospital admin at a department meeting, they don't care. Say they "don't have the budget" for security. I noted that if they don't have the budget for security, they don't have a budget to have an ER. I told admin and directors that due to previous incidents I would prefer not to work at that site; they said "we need to share the danger." I said if there is staffing emergency at that hospital, then hire security and it will be resolved.

I was involved in a previous incident at our primary site that ended up with us getting security. That was an expensive incident with several worker's comp claims, and they don't think they need security at our secondary site.

There was a shooting on campus not long ago and they still state they don't need security.

I realize there's nothing I can do, but it's insane. What annoys me is that this will eventually be solved, partially by my leaving, but there's nothing I can do about that.
Click to expand...
My purpose is that when something happens they will have their pants sued off of them.
 
miacomet said:
I know. It just means leaving my state. It's a "rural" ER so they think it's low-risk, but that's of course not the case- just as much psych, guns, and drugs as anywhere else. Is the chance of a major incident that high? Can security really stop one? Probably not, but they won't even do window dressing for their own reputation. It's a huge hospital system that has deemed security unnecessary in any rural site. It's just bizarre.

As I said, I'd hate to move, but this is nuts.
Click to expand...
sorry man.. that is terrible.
 
miacomet said:
Discussed with hospital admin at a department meeting, they don't care. Say they "don't have the budget" for security. I noted that if they don't have the budget for security, they don't have a budget to have an ER. I told admin and directors that due to previous incidents I would prefer not to work at that site; they said "we need to share the danger." I said if there is staffing emergency at that hospital, then hire security and it will be resolved.

I was involved in a previous incident at our primary site that ended up with us getting security. That was an expensive incident with several worker's comp claims, and they don't think they need security at our secondary site.

There was a shooting on campus not long ago and they still state they don't need security.

I realize there's nothing I can do, but it's insane. What annoys me is that this will eventually be solved, partially by my leaving, but there's nothing I can do about that.
Click to expand...
Soldiers and cops "need to share the danger". You don't.
 
Typical hospital administration nonsense. They will wait for someone to get injured and be forced to have security.

If you still want to work there, my advice is to get concealed carry permit if your state allows it and bring a weapon for self-defense. Doubt the hospital will find out unless they search your bag.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
Time for some IIIa and a carry.
Click to expand...

I tell my residents that I’d like to have 2 mutant or superpowers. The first would be that Professor Xavier time freeze trick where everyone is frozen in time except me. If I did that on any given day and took the opportunity to frisk everyone in the department, I bet I’d find concealed weapons on at least 10% of the staff (nurses, residents, housekeeping, etc.).

I’m not going to tell someone not to take whatever means necessary to protect themselves. However, I will remind them that if they get caught with a gun in most hospitals in America, or even God forbid use it in justifiable self-defense within the hospital, the negative consequences on their career will likely be very harsh. I’ve seen a Chief of Police leave a service weapon in a department store dressing room stall, a Secret Service Agent leave theirs in the ****ter on Air Force One to be found by a member of the press pool, and a cop drive off with a select-fire M4 on his roof (returned to our department by a citizen who found it on the street). So, stupid crap happens to pros, and anyone wanting to cross that bridge had better make damn sure they have the right hardware, training, and mindset for the task.
 
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miacomet said:
Discussed with hospital admin at a department meeting, they don't care. Say they "don't have the budget" for security. I noted that if they don't have the budget for security, they don't have a budget to have an ER. I told admin and directors that due to previous incidents I would prefer not to work at that site; they said "we need to share the danger." I said if there is staffing emergency at that hospital, then hire security and it will be resolved.

I was involved in a previous incident at our primary site that ended up with us getting security. That was an expensive incident with several worker's comp claims, and they don't think they need security at our secondary site.

There was a shooting on campus not long ago and they still state they don't need security.

I realize there's nothing I can do, but it's insane. What annoys me is that this will eventually be solved, partially by my leaving, but there's nothing I can do about that.
Click to expand...
Share the danger my arse, ceo won’t put their desk in the pit
 
GeneralVeers said:
Typical hospital administration nonsense. They will wait for someone to get injured and be forced to have security.

If you still want to work there, my advice is to get concealed carry permit if your state allows it and bring a weapon for self-defense. Doubt the hospital will find out unless they search your bag.
Click to expand...

If someone is going to take the risk of illegally carrying a handgun into a prohibited location, I highly suggest that they invest in a deep concealment holster and never, ever let the pistol leave their body - no matter what. The gun stays on you from the time that you leave your home until you secure it in your safe at night.

Bringing a gun to a prohibited area in your bag creates a boat load of potential problems. First, it is impossible for you to have proximal control over your handgun in a bag at all times during a ED shift. That means co-workers and the general public will, at times, have more access to your gun than you unless it is in a locker. Guns that are loose in bags have a tendency of announcing themselves at the most inopportune times by either discharging when a foreign object enters the trigger guard, or simply by falling out of the bag. The only time I carry a gun in a bag is to and from the range after it is properly unloaded and cleared which means the gun is essentially useless for defensive purposes. Get distracted and leave your bag at work = fuc*ed, have your bag stolen = fuc*ed, and getting into a lethal force encounter while you gun in is your bag that is 30 feet away in a locker = fuc*ed.

Second, bringing the gun in a bag and then transitioning it to a holster in the locker room at work increases the chances of a negligent discharge at work. Well made guns don’t discharge in quality holsters, but the best made gun will ruin your day if being needlessly manipulated while the operator is distracted or focused on keeping it concealed.

Finally, getting a CCW and then thinking that you are competent to get into a gunfight in a busy ED is full of fail. Most of the people reading this post have never heard of a FAST Drill, Bill Drill, Mozambique Drill, etc. much less be able to post reasonable scores. That level of skill takes years to master. Get a quality gun, 5000 rounds of ammo, and several courses with a reputable instructor before you even think that your are anything more than a liability to yourself and everyone around you.
 
I've been detained by FRELIMO guards.
So there's that.


But yes. Like anything else, it's only good if you're good at it. The guy at the Ft Worth church? He puts more rounds downrange than most, if not all, Ft Worth PD.
 
I don't know if having a gun is the answer honestly. I've never pulled the trigger on one, but i would imagine it will take a lot of courage to pull the trigger at another human being, especially when all of our life we've been taught the opposite - to save a life.

You mentioned that there was a death already. Seriously? That job is not worth it. The only solution is to quit and move on. Safety should be there most important aspect. Your life is worth more than a paycheck.
 
What state is this? Hard to imagine a place that is “rural” , daily cop calls, assaults and shootings, and no other jobs in the state.
 
What would the hospital do if there was so much violence in the C suite, or at their kid's school, that police had to be called 300 times?

Yeah, you bet your a$s they'd take action and hire armed security. But if it happens to me or you in the ED, they don't give a ---k. They don't. Not even a bit. They never have and never will. And that's the truth. They'd rather save a buck than spend the $20/hour that they could easily afford for an armed guard to keep you and I from getting killed.
 
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Apollyon said:
For anyone who doesn't know, FRELIMO is the ruling party in Mozambique. And Mozambique has an AK-47 on their flag.

I believe that is to what you were referring. And, if so, add some detail. How does that add?
Click to expand...
Google Mozambique drill.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
Google Mozambique drill.
Click to expand...
For the lazy: you practice shooting a target twice in the chest and then once in the head. The argument for practicing this drill is that if you have an attacker who is sufficiently intoxicated / you miss their vital organs / somehow manages to keep coming at you after the first 2 shots to center of mass, the followup shot to the head should incapacitate them.
 
ShockIndex said:
If someone is going to take the risk of illegally carrying a handgun into a prohibited location, I highly suggest that they invest in a deep concealment holster and never, ever let the pistol leave their body - no matter what. The gun stays on you from the time that you leave your home until you secure it in your safe at night.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was a great solution. Just offering up an idea. I have weapons, but would never consider taking them to any of my current jobs. At least we have armed guards, and Las Vegas Metro is not a police force to tangle with......
 
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Dr.McNinja said:
Google Mozambique drill.
Click to expand...
The Mozambique Drill is one thing. Were you actually detained by those guards, in Mozambique, or were you just referring to practicing that, here in the US? Because, if you were referring to the drill by a cryptic reference to FRELIMO, then, really, I missed it.
 
Pistols? Tasers? I prefer to bring my Ar-10 to work and hide it under my white coat. Also, I go to the range and practice shooting at cardboard which means I am ready to kill an attacker in a firefight.
 
Apollyon said:
The Mozambique Drill is one thing. Were you actually detained by those guards, in Mozambique, or were you just referring to practicing that, here in the US? Because, if you were referring to the drill by a cryptic reference to FRELIMO, then, really, I missed it.
Click to expand...
I was actually detained by the president's guards in Maputo. I simply found it interesting that the Mozambique drill has a history not only with Moz, but with FRELIMO.
 
Tenk said:
Pistols? Tasers? I prefer to bring my Ar-10 to work and hide it under my white coat. Also, I go to the range and practice shooting at cardboard which means I am ready to kill an attacker in a firefight.
Click to expand...
Seemed to work in Fort Worth.
 
Tenk said:
Pistols? Tasers? I prefer to bring my Ar-10 to work and hide it under my white coat. Also, I go to the range and practice shooting at cardboard which means I am ready to kill an attacker in a firefight.
Click to expand...

We used to train our cops and military using women, children, and minorities as targets, but things changed after Vietnam...🙄

Sarcasm aside, law enforcement agencies across the country use cardboard and paper targets to train and judge proficiency. On the other hand, cultivating the judgment and temperament to properly use a firearm is done off the range.
 
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