Effectiveness of Upper Level Undergrad Courses

[aamartin81]

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I am a post-bacc student currently finishing my final pre-req class (Organic II) and am wondering how beneficial classes such as biochemistry and histology taken at the undergraduate level are once you get to medical school. I understand the perspective that any experience with the topic will help, but in my experience, those classes in which I've had a background going into, I've become bored and tend to space out in class. On the other hand, those with which I have no familiarity tend to be more interesting. My question is this: Will I be doing myself a disservice by not taking these clases before entering med school? I appreciate the input of those who have entered both ways!

Thanks,

Adam

 

[dmitrinyr]

I have just finished the first half of my first year of med school and we had both biochemistry and histology along with anatomy and embryology. The fact is that having all of these classes at the same time or a number or them at the same time requires a lot of study time and given that both anatomy and histo have labs, you will need all of the study time you can get. Therefore, seeing the material beforehand (i.e. in undergrad) can greatly increase how fast you learn a particular piece of material and will therefore leave you more time to study and learn things that you are seeing for the first time. Frankly, I think that biochem is the hardest class out of these four because there is just a lot more info in biochem than in the other classes. For example, in the past 4 months of class, I had 48 hourly lectures in anatomy compared with 83 hourly lectures in biochemstry. I think the most helpful class that you can take in undergrad is biochemistry (preferably a graduate level biochem which covers topics in detail similar to what you will see in med school). Taking a histo class is will be useful but not as useful as the biochem, because frankly, histo is a lot easier that biochem. Histo is much like anatomy, that is, as long as you go over the material multiple times and memorize it, you'll be fine. When I was in undergrad, I took a graduate level biochem course and then when I started learning the same material in med school, I already knew what were the important points of the topic, what points I had to spend extra time on. Basically, the material wasn't as overwhelming to me because I had already seen it before. There are many people who had never taken a biochem course and they do very well in the class, but it just makes it easier. I would also suggest taking a genetics course and physiology course. I would not suggest taking an anatomy course unless you actually get to dissect a human being. From what I hear, you will not get too much use from a course where you dissect cats and dogs. Good luck and I hope this helped.

dmitri

 

[waterski232002]

Adam,

I am a 4th year medical student and was a biology major in undergrad. I have a little different perspective than most of the 1st and 2nd yrs posting in this thread will probably have. I agree with the above post, that Biochem is a very useful class to have in undergrad b/c it tends to be somewhat complicated and more time-consuming than other subjects.

Besides that, I feel that all the other courses you could take in undergrad (or in a post-bacc program for that matter) will only be marginally useful. I took Microbiology, Cancer Pathology, Genetics, and Biochem in undergrad and honestly none helped me that much (besides biochem). IMO Undergrad & Medical school classes are geared completely different. In undergrad, they teach you lots of useless junk that may be important for "science" and "history", but is worthless in relavence to medicine. It will give you a broad familiarity with some concepts, but don't think for a second that it can replace a medical school course. You will learn what is "medically important"... it will be a different perspective and focus than an undergrad course. In my experience, Biochem is the only course that will significantly overlap a lot b/c it's all pathways. If you had micro, or immuno or any other course in undergrad maybe you'll have to study 90% as hard as your friends who didn't have it. It just means you'll have heard some terms before.

In the end, all these courses really aren't that important anyways (you don't use them on the wards in 3rd or 4th yr--or for the rest of your career in general, unless you go into basic science research). Just make sure you learn it well enough to pass step I and then you can forget it all forever (and believe me, you will). IMO, do not take "extra" classes unless you have something to prove (aka it may help your application to get into med school) or you have some reason to believe you may not pass medical school. Use your time to relax, have fun, or take non-science courses you are interested in. This is your last chance to explore other things. Everyone starts off on the same page in medical school regardless of what training you had before you enter. Nobody has trained in MEDICINE before, that's why you're there!!!

Good luck... I hope this helps

 

[sundevil23]

I also just finished my 1st semester of med school. This semester I had anatomy, cell bio, and metabolism (our biochem class plus nutrition). I was a bio major in college and took upper division cell and biochem classes. I did very well in these 2 classes this past semester, not sure if it was the classes in undergrad that helped, the fact that I really like these 2 subjects or just that I was so sick thankful not to have to study anatomy. I found it helpful in that I had seen the material before and while most of it was covered more in depth and least I felt like I understood what they were talking about, unlike in anatomy where everything seemed foreign. I think the biggest help was that I already knew how to study for these classes. I think the best advice is to take classes that interest you because those are the ones that you will remeber best or the ones that will come back to the fastest.

 

[aamartin81]

I appreciate all the responses! It seems that you all suggest taking biochem (perferrably graduate level) and others if times permits. As for the time issue, I'm going to be at work if I'm not in class, so I may just have to sign up for another one to compliment biochem!

I know this question has been partially answered above but of the following courses, which two (one for each semester) do you think would be most appropriate: Genetics, Molecular Biology (I've taken Cell), Histology, Pathology, Comparative Anatomy (cats and dogs), Endocrinology, or Comparative Immunology (Not sure what topics).

I realize that this may be specific to whichever medical school program I ultimately attend, but from your experiences, have any of these been similar to your experiences with biochemistry? Again, thanks for your help!

Adam

 

[waterski232002]

Take Biochem.... Don't waste your time taking any other science classes. You'll eat-sleep-drink science for the next 7 years. Take something Non-science that you're interested in. Even better yet, quit your job and go travel overseas!

 

[dmitrinyr]

You don't really need to "compliment" biochem with another class. Biochem is enough and as others have also mentioned, other classes will not give you the same advantage in medical school. So enjoy your off time, have some fun. You shouldn't spend your last year before med school taking stuff that you will be learning again anyway in the next two years at a different pace. Have fun, spend time with the people that you care about because you will not have much time for that after starting med school.

 

[waterski232002]

Oh yeah... If you've ALREADY taken Biochem then definitely do not take another one. That would be crazy. One semester of Biochem is WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH! (and as stated earlier--it is worthless in real life clinical medicine anyways)

 

[mikedc813]

I only took biochem in college and am doing fine in physiology and anatomy in med school without having taken them before. It will definitely help if you take them in college, but it's definitely not a must by any means if you want to take other things instead that interest you more.

 

[oudoc08]

I only took biochem in college and am doing fine in physiology and anatomy in med school without having taken them before. It will definitely help if you take them in college, but it's definitely not a must by any means if you want to take other things instead that interest you more.

I second biochem. It helped alot in the pathways. The problem with taking alot of undergrad classes which you think might help in med school, is that you will likely see little benefit compared to the effort you will have to put in. Take physiology for example. I had three different physiology classes prior to coming to medical school (A&P in paramedic school, physiology and pathophysiology in undergrad). In addition, I took histology, which was taught with somewhat of a phys. emphasis.

We just started physiology in medical school. I can say without a doubt, that medical physiology is a whole different ballgame. The reason is that it is physics and chemistry based. In the last two days, we have not only learned about action potentials, (which you cover in undergrad), but we also had to learn about how to calculate the equilibrium potentials for specific ions using the Nernst equation. We had to calculate diffusion potentials, learn about the Einstein-Stokes equation, etc. My point is that medical physiology is on a different level because it has prerequisites not required in undergrad. Thus, each section is approached on a more theoretical vs. a practical level. This makes the class seem difficult, even when you have had the undergrad class.
Yes, there is the same old crap as well, such as active transport, etc., but these are relatively easy to learn, and you will have likely had the more applied level of phys. in at least some class in undergrad.

One other piece of advice, don't take embryo in undergrad. While others might disagree, I felt the class was relatively easy, as long as you keep up, and didn't require such a significant time input, that a prior experience would have been relatively beneficial.

I took most of the classes in undergrad, which in name were the same as the ones in MS1/MS2. While they were interesting and may subconsciously reduce my study time a little, I still find I have to study more than expected, because the material is either more clinically directed or more detailed in areas not covered in undergrad. Another problem is that undergrad classes tend to go into detail which is irrelevant in med school. (For example, photosynthesis in biochem, population genetics in genetics)