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EK 1001 Books have Wrong Answers?

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Sicilian

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WTF? How am I supposed to check my own work? I can manage allright in physics or gen chem (work backwards to get the right answer or see if the solution makes sense) but O-Chem I'd be totally lost. How do you guys manage? The majority seem to rate these books highly. And I really need to know, what % of the answers given in the back of the book are wrong?
 

frany584

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I'm really not too sure about the % of answers that are wrong in the book, but if i doubted their answer I always went to the forum they have on their website. its been pretty helpful because in most cases the same questions i had others had as well. hope that helps :D
 

stoleyerscrubz

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I did the same. I was a little upset at finding errors at first but my $100+ textbooks I purchase each semester has errors even when it is on the 6th edition or more!! I would not any strange answers or explanations and then review them all on the website every 3 hours of studying or after each subject. They reply to posts with 24 hours usually tool.

frany584 said:
I'm really not too sure about the % of answers that are wrong in the book, but if i doubted their answer I always went to the forum they have on their website. its been pretty helpful because in most cases the same questions i had others had as well. hope that helps :D
 

Sicilian

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I wish Jon Orsay and his brother would take a little time to edit the manuscript before actual publication. With all the money they make, and the fact that no doubt 1000's of ppl have raised this issue... they seem a little hard-headed to not make the necessary modifications. Admittedly, textbook authors do make mistakes, but they apologize in advance and spefically state that they welcome criticism. Jon Orsay and his brother, on the other hand, advertise their EK stuff as superior to all other test-prep material. Maybe so, but in a very shoddy way.
 

Sicilian

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gujuDoc said:
It IS Superior in terms of Verbal and other practice material. If there are incorrect things, it is generally on their website in the forums. You can email them in a more polite manner, and you might actually get somewhere with getting what the right answers are and finding out what the errors are. It happens all the time. Textbooks don't normally correct their errors all the time, and half the time they make butt loads of money by doing nothing to their books other then changing the cover and some other graphics.

Textbooks are written by Ph.D's, and are subject to a basic limitation: the author covers only his/her area of expertise. I don't know what expertise Jon Orsay (a history graduate) and his brother (no idea what he does) can lay claim to. Plagiarizing on a grand scale maybe. :laugh: Sorry, after looking at EK 1001 Physics, I can't give these two credit for much. Although I despise Kaplan & PR, its only the prep-courses they offer, that I'm against. The actual workbooks & other review materials are not bad at all. I retract the "superior" from my earlier statement. Inferior to every textbook I've ever come across is putting it lightly.
 

Sicilian

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gujuDoc said:
First off, the people who wrote the TPR books are MD's.

Second off, the TPR books and EK books are a whole hell of a lot better then the stupid text books I used in college on many levels, because they broke it down and made it a lot easier to understand. Even some of the most brilliant students I've met have looked through the PS books of TPR and EK and said that they teach some of the stuff better then the way my text has taught it.

TPR does not write textbooks. This is my point: if the Orsay's published a textbook, no one would buy it. On the other hand, an art history major can recycle all the standard questions in a textbook, adding the necessary touches here and there, and actually convince enough paranoid ppl to buy it, because the actual market for MCAT-related products is largely monopolized, and consumers have a limited selection of what to choose from. I don't know what textbooks you've used, so I can't explicitly condemn them. However, if one textbook is lacking, its a matter of switching to another. IMO: you have totally failed to realize that certain questions carry over from textbook to textbook, even ending up in hastily put together material like "EK." I have a gut feeling this even carries over to the MCAT; so I personally wouldn't be so quick to dismiss textbooks.

gujuDoc said:
Second off, you need to stop trying to incite all sorts of flaming wars. First you troll on the preallo 40/40 thread, and now you seem to be starting debates about how you want to put Test prep companies out of business when they have helped give the confidence and practice many need and done good.

The fact that you repeat your hollow accusations over and over again shows denial on your part. If your confidence for the MCAT is based solely on a review book, I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your approach from beginning to end.

gujuDoc said:
No, they are not necessary. However, many uni's don't have good professors, the textbooks are way too detailed and confusing, and the students are not tested in an MCAT logic style test, so the prep company is there to help with those areas.

You rely on your professor to learn? There's your problem.
 

stoleyerscrubz

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TPR, kaplan, EK, Berkeley, and then there are the smaller companies. The barriers to entry into this market is quite small. There is also the option of text books and classes as well. I can mix and match different products from different companies. Anybody on this forum could create a product and market it. I'd hardly call it a monopoly.

These are review books not textbooks. All they have to do is know how to present the material in an organized manner, know what subjects to cover, and know the amount of detail needed. A PhD is not required for that.

If you don't like EK or other MCAT prep companies that is fine but no need to go around getting into arguments.

Sicilian said:
the actual market for MCAT-related products is largely monopolized, and consumers have a limited selection of what to choose from
 

Sicilian

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stoleyerscrubz said:
TPR, kaplan, EK, Berkeley, and then there are the smaller companies. The barriers to entry into this market is quite small. There is also the option of text books and classes as well. I can mix and match different products from different companies. Anybody on this forum could create a product and market it. I'd hardly call it a monopoly.

These are review books not textbooks. All they have to do is know how to present the material in an organized manner, know what subjects to cover, and know the amount of detail needed. A PhD is not required for that.

If you don't like EK or other MCAT prep companies that is fine but no need to go around getting into arguments.

The most popular MCAT test-prep companies are EK, Kaplan, and PR. But you will notice, Kaplan & PR also invest in standardized tests other than the MCAT. The same is true for all the smaller test-prep companies which sell MCAT material: Argos, Peterson's, etc. EK is the only test-prep company to market solely MCAT related material. I don't have access to EK's financial statements, but I imagine their annual net revenue is in the millions. They could easily expand into other arenas. The fact that they choose not to do so, and that they turn out a product which remains more or less the same every yr, despite constructive criticism, tells you something about the motivations of the Orsay brothers. An online "message board" (which periodically goes down) is not the place to address customer concerns either. I've already made it clear that I don't have issues with Kaplan & PR (other than their review courses). These companies at least go to great lengths to turn out a quality product; I especially like the fact that they send instructors to take the actual MCAT every year. In contrast, Jonathon Orsay has taken the MCAT three times (by his own admission). These are legitimate concerns I have. If you & gujuDoc have issues which you feel strongly about, and do not feel my criticism is constructive, I encourage you to make use of the ignore function. Lets not resort to name-calling.
 

stoleyerscrubz

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Sicilian, I don't remember doing any name calling and don't see a need for using the ignore function on you. Luckily this forum is here to help prospective MCAT takers make decisions on what material to buy based on positive and negative comments of the MCAT materials. This thread provides both.
 

Sicilian

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stoleyerscrubz said:
Sicilian, I don't remember doing any name calling and don't see a need for using the ignore function on you. Luckily this forum is here to help prospective MCAT takers make decisions on what material to buy based on positive and negative comments of the MCAT materials. This thread provides both.

Off-topic: You yourself didn't, but someone else did. Some of us are hard up for attention, unfortunately. :thumbdown: Yeah, this is a "forum." We don't toe the company line here. Back to the last point: what do you think are the implications of EK not venturing into areas other than the MCAT? And what are their reasons for keeping it that way? Because you know, by diversifying its portfolio, EK could make way more money and invest the capital even further, perhaps giving Kaplan & PR a slight nudge along the way.
 

perfectmoment

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maybe they don't go into other areas because they are trying to focus on something that they have expertise with? it's called focusing on your core competencies. you do realize that their 5th edition review books were only published in 2003, which coincidentally, was the same year that the mcat last changed? should they be expected to update their books every single year, possibly charge more, and yet only make a few very minor corrections? look at kaplan - their big book has not changed in a number of years now, and yet they charge full price. why don't you make a big stink about that? hell, they employ hundreds, if not thousands of people, so therefore, they should be updating it every year. what does it matter if kaplan and princeton send people to take the test every year, if they themselves do not change their material? the only reason i can think of that they would bother taking the tests is so that they can have their little end of mcat report.

you seem to have a huge grudge against ek. i dunno the reasons, maybe you have a hard-on for being counter to what everyone else says and does, but i think you should give EK a comment card. i'm sure they'll appreciate what you have to say ;)
 

Sicilian

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I can indeed see Jonathon Orsay, coming after me with his canvas & pastels.

"You! You'll pay for this!"

"F- you, Orsay."

Splat.
 

Maccha

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Isn't there any company which help us by correcting their mistakes and answering our questions regarding their material/Tests. Wouldnt it be nice to have some one who listens to the student community and provide us with a better way to prepare for the big day. :).

Is there any site that even remotely provides above features......

Maccha :idea:
 

medhacker

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So sicilian

In your opinion, which one is better?
EK,TPR,Kaplan,... :confused: ?
 

Sicilian

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medhacker said:
So sicilian

In your opinion, which one is better?
EK,TPR,Kaplan,... :confused: ?

TPR and Kaplan are equally good, if we go by results (e.g. improvements in ppl's test scores). The effectiveness of a test prep company depends on: (I) how well they teach exactly whats on the test and nothing more, (II) how well they teach effective time-management strategies, and (III) the extent to which they provide familiarity with the format of the actual test. EK does (III); Kaplan and PR do (I), (II), & (III). My judgements are based partly on the sheer volume of resources provided by each. Also, I don't see how two people (EK) can put together material that spans 2 yrs, especially if neither is competent in any of the fields from which the test material stems. As I implied earlier, most of the EK 1001 physics questions can be found in the standard physics textbook (I can give you an explicit reference here, if you're interested in doing the comparison for yourself). And some EK conceptual questions, such as "inertia is a measure of an objects resistance to..." are simply ridiculous. I cannot prove this, but I firmly believe Orsay and his brother spent a lot of time going through textbooks, and simplified the calculations for MCAT purposes, not to mention modify text for the purposes of creating conceptual questions.
 

JustR

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Sicilian said:
TPR and Kaplan are equally good, if we go by results (e.g. improvements in ppl's test scores). The effectiveness of a test prep company depends on: (I) how well they teach exactly whats on the test and nothing more, (II) how well they teach effective time-management strategies, and (III) the extent to which they provide familiarity with the format of the actual test. EK does (III); Kaplan and PR do (I), (II), & (III). My judgements are based partly on the sheer volume of resources provided by each. Also, I don't see how two people (EK) can put together material that spans 2 yrs, especially if neither is competent in any of the fields from which the test material stems. As I implied earlier, most of the EK 1001 physics questions can be found in the standard physics textbook (I can give you an explicit reference here, if you're interested in doing the comparison for yourself). And some EK conceptual questions, such as "inertia is a measure of an objects resistance to..." are simply ridiculous. I cannot prove this, but I firmly believe Orsay and his brother spent a lot of time going through textbooks, and simplified the calculations for MCAT purposes, not to mention modify text for the purposes of creating conceptual questions.
:thumbup:
 

medhacker

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I like your theory homes, thanks. Add up if you must.


Sicilian said:
TPR and Kaplan are equally good, if we go by results (e.g. improvements in ppl's test scores). The effectiveness of a test prep company depends on: (I) how well they teach exactly whats on the test and nothing more, (II) how well they teach effective time-management strategies, and (III) the extent to which they provide familiarity with the format of the actual test. EK does (III); Kaplan and PR do (I), (II), & (III). My judgements are based partly on the sheer volume of resources provided by each. Also, I don't see how two people (EK) can put together material that spans 2 yrs, especially if neither is competent in any of the fields from which the test material stems. As I implied earlier, most of the EK 1001 physics questions can be found in the standard physics textbook (I can give you an explicit reference here, if you're interested in doing the comparison for yourself). And some EK conceptual questions, such as "inertia is a measure of an objects resistance to..." are simply ridiculous. I cannot prove this, but I firmly believe Orsay and his brother spent a lot of time going through textbooks, and simplified the calculations for MCAT purposes, not to mention modify text for the purposes of creating conceptual questions.
 

stoleyerscrubz

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Do you think every textbook is made without reference to previous texts?

This is a review book. It should do exactly that: take the best info from texts and present it in a simplified form. I don't think you need a Science PhD to do that.

Sicilian said:
TPR and Kaplan are equally good, if we go by results (e.g. improvements in ppl's test scores). The effectiveness of a test prep company depends on: (I) how well they teach exactly whats on the test and nothing more, (II) how well they teach effective time-management strategies, and (III) the extent to which they provide familiarity with the format of the actual test. EK does (III); Kaplan and PR do (I), (II), & (III). My judgements are based partly on the sheer volume of resources provided by each. Also, I don't see how two people (EK) can put together material that spans 2 yrs, especially if neither is competent in any of the fields from which the test material stems. As I implied earlier, most of the EK 1001 physics questions can be found in the standard physics textbook (I can give you an explicit reference here, if you're interested in doing the comparison for yourself). And some EK conceptual questions, such as "inertia is a measure of an objects resistance to..." are simply ridiculous. I cannot prove this, but I firmly believe Orsay and his brother spent a lot of time going through textbooks, and simplified the calculations for MCAT purposes, not to mention modify text for the purposes of creating conceptual questions.
 
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