Elective rotations

[deleted212936]

Hi everyone,

My question is along the line of 'what's beyond med school?'
I've heard medical students start to apply for residencies in the summer before their 4th year.. So it better to do elective rotation in 3rd year vs. in 4th year? I guess if you do it in 3rd year, you'll get a chance to show residency directors how well you did your chosen specialty.

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[Neurocentric]

You might want to ask this in the allopathic med school part of the forums. I have a feeling you'll get more answers there.

 

[searun]

I will start my fourth year of med school in July. I will be doing an elective rotation at my own med school in July and an elective away rotation at another med school in September. These elective rotations are in the medical specialty that I want to enter.

Typically these elective rotations are done early in the fourth year, prior to residency interviews. Most residency interviews take place November-January.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

Hi everyone,

My question is along the line of 'what's beyond med school?'
I've heard medical students start to apply for residencies in the summer before their 4th year.. So it better to do elective rotation in 3rd year vs. in 4th year? I guess if you do it in 3rd year, you'll get a chance to show residency directors how well you did your chosen specialty.

You are correct; most med students prepare to apply for residencies at the start of their 4th year (July, August).

This is very school specific. For many schools, most of the 3rd year is full of required clinical rotations (my school only allows for one month of either vacation or elective during the third year). It is recommended that this time be used to explore specialties that you may not be exposed to during the require third-year rotations (plus forgoing a vacation during third year usually translates into more time off during the fourth year).

Many students that are unable to take a third year elective in the field they are interested in often take the fourth year equivalent in the first 3 months of their 4th year. If the courses are taken then, it is reasonable to get a LOR in time for residency applications (yes, it is AMCAS again, only it is called ERAS). Transcripts usually include all courses up to and including the August course of the student’s senior year.

-senior medical student (9 days left)

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi everyone,

My question is along the line of 'what's beyond med school?'
I've heard medical students start to apply for residencies in the summer before their 4th year.. So it better to do elective rotation in 3rd year vs. in 4th year? I guess if you do it in 3rd year, you'll get a chance to show residency directors how well you did your chosen specialty.

The rub is that at most programs, you don't get electives in third year. You have to do the core rotations in third year and they often take up the whole year. The core rotations are IM, Peds, OBGYN, Surgery, Psych (and at some places FM or neuro). You actually start applying for residencies in September of 4th year. However at many places you won't really get a break between 3rd and 4th year so you get a few rotations to work with over the summer. You will have June, July and August month rotations to try out fields. In a way it's fine because most residency slots are in the core fields anyhow. But the timing does present problems for some people who are having a harder time to decide.

If you are smart, you might want to try and shadow attendings in a few fields which are outside of the cores during the summer after first year, or during second year.

 

[metallica81788]

Not to hijack the thread, but apparently my school only has 3 elective slots in fourth year (none in third year) and that's it. The other school I will be declining says "max of 4 away electives." How am I supposed to figure out what I want to do (besides shadowing) and deal with getting away rotations with only 3 electives in fourth year when that isn't even as many away electives as the other school allows? It seems kind of ridiculous. I can post the curriculum/schedule if you need more info to answer my question.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

If you are smart, you might want to try and shadow attendings in a few fields which are outside of the cores during the summer after first year, or during second year.

I second this. Start of fourth year is not the ideal time to test drive a potential future career (especially if you don't have the opportunity for a third year elective).

 

[mvenus929]

Not to hijack the thread, but apparently my school only has 3 elective slots in fourth year (none in third year) and that's it. The other school I will be declining says "max of 4 away electives." How am I supposed to figure out what I want to do (besides shadowing) and deal with getting away rotations with only 3 electives in fourth year when that isn't even as many away electives as the other school allows? It seems kind of ridiculous. I can post the curriculum/schedule if you need more info to answer my question.

There's a difference between an elective and an away rotation, though one includes the other. An elective is anything outside the core rotations... basically, it's all of your fourth year (though some schools require a couple months of sub-internships, so those wouldn't be considered electives). These can include anything from subspecialties to specialties you haven't gone through before (like radiation oncology) to research (most schools allow for a month or two of elective credit for participating in an extended research program).

Away rotations are just that: rotations that are outside of your school's 'home' hospital system. At UVA, this is anything outside Charlottesville, Salem, or Roanoke. At NYU, it's anything not at the VA hospital, Bellevue, or the private hospital NYU is connected to. So, if you wanted to do a pediatric oncology rotation at St. Jude's, and you don't go to UT Memphis, that would be an away rotation.

 

[metallica81788]

There's a difference between an elective and an away rotation, though one includes the other. An elective is anything outside the core rotations... basically, it's all of your fourth year (though some schools require a couple months of sub-internships, so those wouldn't be considered electives). These can include anything from subspecialties to specialties you haven't gone through before (like radiation oncology) to research (most schools allow for a month or two of elective credit for participating in an extended research program).

Away rotations are just that: rotations that are outside of your school's 'home' hospital system. At UVA, this is anything outside Charlottesville, Salem, or Roanoke. At NYU, it's anything not at the VA hospital, Bellevue, or the private hospital NYU is connected to. So, if you wanted to do a pediatric oncology rotation at St. Jude's, and you don't go to UT Memphis, that would be an away rotation.

I know all of this already.

What I'm saying is that the school only has 3 elective slots PERIOD. Don't most schools have electives to where (if you want to do away electives) you can take some electives in your chosen field at your school then do a more advanced away elective in that field as an audition? It just seems like the school doesn't give its students enough opportunities to explore electives and even moreso if they wanted to take away electives.

 

[werd]

I know all of this already.

What I'm saying is that the school only has 3 elective slots PERIOD. Don't most schools have electives to where (if you want to do away electives) you can take some electives in your chosen field at your school then do a more advanced away elective in that field as an audition? It just seems like the school doesn't give its students enough opportunities to explore electives and even moreso if they wanted to take away electives.

i think it's unlikely that you really only have 3 elective slots during your 4th year. there's simply not enough core rotations to have so few electives. regarding aways, almost noone will do more than 2 away electives, aside from the occassional derm or ortho applicant. i'd ask an ms3 or 4 at your school to clarify this for you; 4th year is generally 8-12 months of elective rotations.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

I know all of this already.

What I'm saying is that the school only has 3 elective slots PERIOD. Don't most schools have electives to where (if you want to do away electives) you can take some electives in your chosen field at your school then do a more advanced away elective in that field as an audition? It just seems like the school doesn't give its students enough opportunities to explore electives and even moreso if they wanted to take away electives.

For this responder as well as the other med students and residencts out there, this is not all that uncommon. At my school students can take 4 electives during the last two years of med school (1 during the third year and 3 during the 4th year OR all 4 during the 4th year). We have mandatory 4th year rotations: ambulatory medicine, acting medicine internship, acting surgical internship, and a selective course; this is why we can only fit in 3-4 electives during the fourth year. The remaining months are required vacation time during which students interview for residency and prepare for / take board exams (so not entirely a vacation, but there is time to have fun).

This scheduling scheme is quite common among allopathic schools. There are variations that utilize block schedules based on 2 or 4 week blocks instead of the calendar month. Schools that offer 2 week rotations do allow students more opportunities to experience non-core rotations, but some would argue that this amount of time may be less sufficient to make a good impression for course evaluations or LOR's (or to really get the feel of a specialty).

This is why shadowing is important during the first two years of med school. Obviously, shadowing doesn't replace a hardcore 3rd or 4th year elective where you are in the thick of patient care, but it gives you an idea of where you should focus your attention when it comes time to schedule your later years.

-admissions committee interviewer / senior medical student

 

[FirefighterDoc]

So when one does an away rotation, where do they usually live? Hotel? Other med student? I always wondered how that worked.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

So when one does an away rotation, where do they usually live? Hotel? Other med student? I always wondered how that worked.

Any of the above. Friends. Family. This varies greatly. Academic programs that are commonly visited by other students usually have housing options in available.

 

[Law2Doc]

i think it's unlikely that you really only have 3 elective slots during your 4th year. there's simply not enough core rotations to have so few electives. ... i'd ask an ms3 or 4 at your school to clarify this for you; 4th year is generally 8-12 months of elective rotations.

I think you miss the point. You have lots of electives in 4th year, but electives after the fall of 4th year don't count in terms of deciding on a field -- it's too late to decide on a field once you need have applied or begin to start interviewing. So basically the electives after september are moot -- those are for your own interest or to sell yourself as away rotations, not to initially pick a field. Since most people have few or no electives in 3rd year (which is taken up by cores at most programs), you have only the electives in June, July, and August to decide on a field if you plan to submit an application in September.

 

[deleted212936]

Would a 4-week rotation in third year be sufficient to make a good impression for course evaluations or LOR’s?

 

[searun]

Would a 4-week rotation in third year be sufficient to make a good impression for course evaluations or LOR’s?

I am just wrapping up third year. My med school does not permit any elective rotations during third year. That is why I am doing my elective rotation in my field of interest during July, the first month of my fourth year.

Sure, if you can do a 4 week elective rotation during third year, it makes sense, but many med schools will not provide you with this opportunity.

My med school did have a one week required rotation in my field of interest during third year and, after some research, I decided that this is the specialty that I want to enter. The chairman of the department is now my advisor, and he is integrating me into a research project, and then I will do my 4 week rotation in this department in July. My away rotation in September is an audition rotation.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

Would a 4-week rotation in third year be sufficient to make a good impression for course evaluations or LOR’s?

Depends on the specific school and department you work with; you'll just have to sit tight and wait for that part of your education to arrive.

For example, my school offers an Emergency Medicine elective during the 3rd and 4th years; however these two elective are completely different. The 3rd year elective is more of an intro to the specialty (not a good month to get LORs), while the 4th year elective is an audition elective (good for impressing the faculty and getting LOR's).