Elective surgeries cancelled due to lack of anesthesiology

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ambiturner said:
Never let a good crisis go to waste I suppose. But to claim that a staffing crisis in what had previously been a fully staffed department would be fixed by independent CRNAs is a stretch even for these guys.

And based on this posting it’s not like there’s an abundance of CRNAs looking to work here either: GasWork.com - Reference #343842

And one last note: read the posting above, and then tell me you would ever want to work for team health. They’re offering ‘autonomy’ and the signing bonus is higher than the docs. This is not a company that values physicians or what we bring to the table.
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An immediate family member works at a TeamHealth staffed hospital. This type of thing is not an isolated issue. TeamHealth profits by critically understaffing and rely on midlevels to do most of the work, even things they do not have training or knowledge in. The type of people and personalities that work there is truly dangerous.
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sevoflurane said:
275-330+ all expenses, contracted day time 7-8 hrs, on call 500+ minimum 2 hr minimum for call back, 330+ after 3pm…etc…or walk.
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MD only, maybe.

Supervising "autonomous“ CRNAs, no thanks.
 
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Nobody should agree to do locums for them EXCEPT at a mega premium rate and working solo specified in contract.
 
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These Docs stuck together to screw Team Health and Sherman Hospital Administration. We need to stick together more in order to fend of venture capital and administrator greed. Please don't work for these clowns! Let the hospital go bankrupt and let the corpse be a deterrent for the other greedy administrators out there.
 
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With the insane travel pay that most hospitals are offering across the country we are losing about 75% of our local OR staff who are now becoming Travelers about 30 to 50 miles away from home and getting paid 5 times as much. I told all of our great tecks and staff that that's a very wise financial position and it sucks that they are leavingh, but when the hospital Administration is inept you got to do what's best for you.

As a side note, we have two new Travelers in Hospital in Ortho who are rockstars. They are better than anyone else I've ever had in the OR. Too bad they will probably be gone in a couple months.

I don't understand how all these MBA c-suite executives are so short-sighted and so f****** stupid. Both major Hospital Systems in our town are on the brink of having anesthesia contract problems as well.
 
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The travel rn and tech thing is getting out of hand. Half our staff has left to "travel" to hospitals literally 20 minutes away and our "traveller's" generally live within a half hour from the hospital. I don't know what the solution will be because obviously everyone is going to become a traveler and get paid more. Especially young healthy who don't care about insurance or have a spouse with insurance.
 
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dabears505 said:
The travel rn and tech thing is getting out of hand. Half our staff has left to "travel" to hospitals literally 20 minutes away and our "traveller's" generally live within a half hour from the hospital. I don't know what the solution will be because obviously everyone is going to become a traveler and get paid more. Especially young healthy who don't care about insurance or have a spouse with insurance.
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Just had the same conversation with someone about long-term locums for us. They’d rather stay in the same assignment for months/years, because the hospital/amc won’t pay “real” wages when they become full time employee at the site.

It’s even more infuriating that the locum company is part of AMC. Rather than focusing on the healthy/stability of a local group, CxOs want to show profitability on the balance sheets, since the salary of locum probably come from another pot of money.

What do I know? Just another dumb anesthesiologist who went to school too long to save lives.
 
IMGASMD said:
Just had the same conversation with someone about long-term locums for us. They’d rather stay in the same assignment for months/years, because the hospital/amc won’t pay “real” wages when they become full time employee at the site.

It’s even more infuriating that the locum company is part of AMC. Rather than focusing on the healthy/stability of a local group, CxOs want to show profitability on the balance sheets, since the salary of locum probably come from another pot of money.

What do I know? Just another dumb anesthesiologist who went to school too long to save lives.
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"The silo effect is a phrase that is popular in the business and organizational communities to describe a lack of communication and common goals between departments in an organization (7). Silo maybe defined as groups of employees that tend to work as autonomous units within an organization."
 
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dabears505 said:
The travel rn and tech thing is getting out of hand. Half our staff has left to "travel" to hospitals literally 20 minutes away and our "traveller's" generally live within a half hour from the hospital. I don't know what the solution will be because obviously everyone is going to become a traveler and get paid more. Especially young healthy who don't care about insurance or have a spouse with insurance.
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Maybe that’s how much they’ve been worth all along for the skills and knowledge that they bring and the pay is finally catching up.
 
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dr doze said:
"The silo effect is a phrase that is popular in the business and organizational communities to describe a lack of communication and common goals between departments in an organization (7). Silo maybe defined as groups of employees that tend to work as autonomous units within an organization."
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My SO finally moved up enough to be at the big table. The company would rather pay for contractors at 100+/hr than hiring someone competent at a market salary.

That’s not the most amazing part. It’s they just recently had a contractor who worked on a project for $50,000+ close to 6 months, and pretty much unless, because no one within the company knows how the code was constructed.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on those who expect a different outcome with the same methodology. (All you CxOs, in industry, in health care, in whatever fields when accountability hold much less consequences than profitability).
 
dr doze said:
"The silo effect is a phrase that is popular in the business and organizational communities to describe a lack of communication and common goals between departments in an organization (7). Silo maybe defined as groups of employees that tend to work as autonomous units within an organization."
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Years ago I tried to tell our pharmacist this when we had a discussion about Novo 7 and PCC. “Please talk to the blood bank.” But she didn’t care.
 
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nimbus said:
Maybe that’s how much they’ve been worth all along for the skills and knowledge that they bring and the pay is finally catching up.
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It takes time to train competent medical workers. Covid forced a lot of people to quit medicine. Basic laws of supply and demand are at play. All of our pay scales should be forced up. I think the democrats see the writing on the wall that their time in power is going to be short lived which may lead to a real push (hopefully not) over the edge into socialized medicine sooner than anticipated. Given that it takes time to train staff, no policy is going to be able to “fix the traveler problem.” It’s about to be a good time to be in medicine.
 
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nimbus said:
Years ago I tried to tell our pharmacist this when we had a discussion about Novo 7 and PCC. “Please talk to the blood bank.” But she didn’t care.
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You need to bring other "stakeholders" into the conversation. CC:ing via email is a good way. ;) .
Doesn't earn you any friends though.
 
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dr doze said:
You need to bring other "stakeholders" into the conversation. CC:ing via email is a good way. ;) .
Doesn't earn you any friends though.
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I usually will also list cc at the bottom.

CC:
Dr. Smith, head of x committee
Dr. Douche, chief of medical staff
Nurse Ratched, CNO

Just so everyone is in fact in the loop, within our closed looped communication.

Sometimes with an urgent title.
Patient Safety in jeopardy.
Not meeting standard of care.

Even better
Hospital X isn’t practicing Evidence Based Medicine

My favorite
Patients will DIE because of your inaction

Maybe that’s why I am no longer on any committees…..
 
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IMGASMD said:
Just had the same conversation with someone about long-term locums for us. They’d rather stay in the same assignment for months/years, because the hospital/amc won’t pay “real” wages when they become full time employee at the site.

It’s even more infuriating that the locum company is part of AMC. Rather than focusing on the healthy/stability of a local group, CxOs want to show profitability on the balance sheets, since the salary of locum probably come from another pot of money.

What do I know? Just another dumb anesthesiologist who went to school too long to save lives.
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You are saying that as a locum, if you contract with a staff company instead of the AMC directly, you get paid more?

I am thinking of being a mercenary; it surprises me.
 
narcotics999 said:
You are saying that as a locum, if you contract with a staff company instead of the AMC directly, you get paid more?

I am thinking of being a mercenary; it surprises me.
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I am saying sometimes the amc doesn’t want to deal with you directly, because of their accounting practices.

Even though they maybe paying 300+/hr to locum company, and you getting 200. The money coming out of locum pot is different than the money coming out of their regular operating pot.

Also to the management, there’re other costs when they hire you directly. All the benefits, training, 401k and whatever else is they have to pay for.
 
Fyi got an email by recruiter. Thry are Min $350 an hour being offered qt this time. Up to $500 an hour.

1 hour outside Chicago
Level 2 trauma
Quite obviously referring to advocate Sherman
 
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coffeebythelake said:
Fyi got an email by recruiter. Thry are Min $350 an hour being offered qt this time. Up to $500 an hour.

1 hour outside Chicago
Level 2 trauma
Quite obviously referring to advocate Sherman
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Listen, if someone offered me straight $500/hr with guaranteed hours, and I was available to cover it, I don't think I could pass it up.
 
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Heard this morning a recruiter offering $500/hr to go there for a three month commitment. No work details. Still not worth it.
 
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abolt18 said:
Listen, if someone offered me straight $500/hr with guaranteed hours, and I was available to cover it, I don't think I could pass it up.
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Great. Get a fat pt killed in EGD when you are covering 4 rooms. That happened with Deathstar for colonoscopy. Seriously if you want the money, negotiate MD only. They are desperate; they will probably accommodate.

How long does it take to get an IL license?
 
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narcotics999 said:
Great. Get a fat pt killed in EGD when you are covering 4 rooms. That happened with Deathstar for colonoscopy. Seriously if you want the money, negotiate MD only. They are desperate; they will probably accommodate.

How long does it take to get an IL license?
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www.fox2detroit.com

Report: Southfield man dies during colonoscopy after Beaumont outsourced anesthesiology service

According to the report, the patient was intubated for the procedure and stopped breathing when the tube was removed. A Northstar anesthesiologist was called to help reintubate the patient. The procedure failed.
www.fox2detroit.com www.fox2detroit.com

www.democraticunderground.com

Beaumont Hospital Staffers Horrified After Patient Dies During Routine Colonoscopy - Democratic Underground Forums

www.democraticunderground.com www.democraticunderground.com


Yeah, Beaumont. and Northstar Deathstar. What a fukking ****show that place is. Made national news.
 
coffeebythelake said:
www.fox2detroit.com

Report: Southfield man dies during colonoscopy after Beaumont outsourced anesthesiology service

According to the report, the patient was intubated for the procedure and stopped breathing when the tube was removed. A Northstar anesthesiologist was called to help reintubate the patient. The procedure failed.
www.fox2detroit.com www.fox2detroit.com

www.democraticunderground.com

Beaumont Hospital Staffers Horrified After Patient Dies During Routine Colonoscopy - Democratic Underground Forums

www.democraticunderground.com www.democraticunderground.com


Yeah, Beaumont. and Northstar Deathstar. What a fukking ****show that place is. Made national news.
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Christ...what a ****show
 
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Blockit said:
Shouldn’t that say “FORMER” level 2 trauma?
😁
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Twiggidy said:
Got two "cold texts" today about Sherman. Any license!
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www.medscape.com

Did Anesthesiology Shakeup Cost Hospital Its Trauma Designation?

The resulting disruption in anesthesiology services has led the hospital to divert emergency care to other health facilities.
www.medscape.com

Anesthesiology Provider Shakeup May Have Cost Illinois Hospital Its Level II Trauma Center Designation​

Lucy Hicks
September 28, 2021


A hospital in Elgin, Illinois, lost its designation as a Level II trauma center after terminating a contract with their long-standing anesthesia provider. This disruption in anesthesiologist services has led the health facility to divert emergency cases to other hospitals and reschedule elective surgeries.

The Illinois Department of Public Health (IDPH) alerted the region's emergency medical services of Advocate Sherman Hospital's status change Friday, September 24, a IDPH representative told Medscape Medical News in an email. The agency did not disclose why the Sherman hospital's status was revoked but noted that additional information would be made available after "review of responses from the hospital concerning the emergency revocation."

Level II centers can initiate care for all injured patients and have 24-hour coverage by general surgeons as well as coverage for specialties like anesthesiology, radiology, and orthopedics. The downgrade means that the hospital cannot receive seriously injured patients requiring immediate emergency care, the Chicago Tribune reported.

"This is all a contract-driven problem," Brian Birmingham, MD, president of the Illinois Society of Anesthesiologists, told Medscape Medical News. "We look at it as an unfortunate situation that we hope will soon be rectified."

Advocate Sherman Hospital ended a long-standing contract with their previous anesthesia provider, United Anesthesia Associates, in late August after a contract dispute, according to a statement from the hospital. The new team of anesthesiologists, TeamHealth, will take over October 1, according to the Chicago Tribune.

But physicians at Sherman are concerned that this temporary shortage could carry on for up to a year. In an Elgin city council meeting on Wednesday, September 22, Tom Stanley, MD, MPH, vice chair of surgery at the hospital, noted that there are currently no permanently employed anesthesiologists at the hospital, and that TeamHealth does not have any providers currently licensed to practice in the state of Illinois, according to the Daily Herald . Medscape Medical News was unable to reach Stanley, and his employer, OrthoIllinois, declined to comment.

In a statement after the council meeting, Advocate Sherman Hospital noted that the new anesthesiology team is currently being onboarded "as we work to return to full capacity services in the near future. In the meantime, we continue to care for all patients who arrive through our Emergency Department in addition to labor and delivery services and some urgent and elective procedures."
 
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nimbus said:
Clearly Northstar is bringing on only the most highly qualified and carefully vetted doctors.
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8EE18D6A-F161-49BA-9239-7DC84312426F.gif
 
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coffeebythelake said:
www.fox2detroit.com

Report: Southfield man dies during colonoscopy after Beaumont outsourced anesthesiology service

According to the report, the patient was intubated for the procedure and stopped breathing when the tube was removed. A Northstar anesthesiologist was called to help reintubate the patient. The procedure failed.
www.fox2detroit.com www.fox2detroit.com

www.democraticunderground.com

Beaumont Hospital Staffers Horrified After Patient Dies During Routine Colonoscopy - Democratic Underground Forums

www.democraticunderground.com www.democraticunderground.com


Yeah, Beaumont. and Northstar Deathstar. What a fukking ****show that place is. Made national news.
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Damn. We intubating colonoscopy now? I’m sleep
 
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Twiggidy said:
Damn. We intubating colonoscopy now? I’m sleep
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I just re-read the article. I like the fact both north star and Beaumont is basically pointing fingers at each other, by saying the other party has a hand in this……
 
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IMGASMD said:
I just re-read the article. I like the fact both north star and Beaumont is basically pointing fingers at each other, by saying the other party has a hand in this……
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The one screwed most is the anesthesiologist. He/she is definitely thrown under the bus.
 
narcotics999 said:
The one screwed most is the anesthesiologist. He/she is definitely thrown under the bus.
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Of course. That goes without saying. Hope s/he isn’t someone brand new just staring their practice….
But there’s also some you should know what your walk into kind of element here. Death Star wasn’t created in one day.
 
nimbus said:
Doubt it’ll last. Groups are pretty desperate these days.
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Never know, in a way agreeing to work for a hospital that threw out the old group in favor of an AMC is helping depress local wages, and encourage other hospitals/facilities to follow in their footsteps (if successful). Conversely the less willing people are to work for them the less inclined other hospitals/facilities will be to turn to an AMC when asked for a stipend.

Plus there are always new grads every year, so it’s not like there’s a fixed supply of anesthesiologists in Illinois.

Working in a crappy environment with heightened risk/liability (inexperienced staff etc) and rewarding AMCs/hospitals in their negotiations with local groups all for ~50-150 bucks an hour extra after taxes (all at marginal rate) seems like a hard pass to me. Just the fact that they (the AMC) offers a higher signing bonus to CRNA than MD would make me refuse to bail them out.
 
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<(^_^)> said:
Just the fact that they (the AMC) offers a higher signing bonus to CRNA than MD would make me refuse to bail them out.
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Yeah - this signing bonus element is very strange, foreboding of continued filth really.
 
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