Elijah McLain

[deleted480308]

I've voted 3rd party a few times. Especially when I had that libertarian twinge and they had a decent candidate. Those were fun times. In my opinion there's never been a more important election in our history and one in which America needs to send a message. There's never been another election in which I believed a 3rd party vote is a wasted vote (though plenty of others have said that in previous elections, I didn't believe it). America is voting on who we are. Are we the country that we were pre-Trump? Or are we Trump? We went from the first black president to literal racist riots in American cities. People are LYING to themselves if they feel that has nothing to do with who the president is.

I'm not going to rehash all my beefs with Trump because there have been so many. But there's never been a time in my life when I believed America was the country that Trump appears to want us to be. I could never vote for him and or anyone like him.

I think you seem to be using a false choice fallacy, we can also be a country that votes our ideals that just might not be the candidates the two major parties put up

also, “literal racist riots in american cities”? Can you be real specific?

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[Southpaw]

I think you seem to be using a false choice fallacy, we can also be a country that votes our ideals that just might not be the candidates the two major parties put up

also, “literal racist riots in american cities”? Can you be real specific?

Charlottesville

False dilemma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You brought this up, so you're going to need to explain it in more than your typical one liners. Tell me, logically, the 'at least one additional valid option' other than the Republican or Democratic nominee for president? Is there a 3rd party candidate that is seriously being considered and will gather enough votes to win?

I am not talking about your belief system. I know your belief system. I want to know, since your raise the issue, the actual real likelihood of a 3rd party candidate beating Biden or Trump? You appear to be dismissing the fact that what you win in debate points you lose with pure damn common sense.

 

[deleted480308]

Charlottesville

False dilemma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You brought this up, so you're going to need to explain it in more than your typical one liners. Tell me, logically, the 'at least one additional valid option' other than the Republican or Democratic nominee for president? Is there a 3rd party candidate that is seriously being considered and will gather enough votes to win?

I am not talking about your belief system. I know your belief system. I want to know, since your raise the issue, the actual real likelihood of a 3rd party candidate beating Biden or Trump? You appear to be dismissing the fact that what you win in debate points you lose with pure damn common sense.

Thanks for clarifying charlottesville, you used “riots” in plural which to me seemed to be implying there where a large amount of them (more than zero is bad) but you meant really one so thanks for clearing it up

as for the options for president, I’m not at all defending chances of a third party winning. That would require enough people who prefer other platforms bite the bullet and start voting third party. As long as your standard is “but we have to have a real chance of winning or I stick to two parties”, then you are correct that youhave two options. I’m saying that’s a poorly chosenstandard and you can send a message byvoting for platforms you believe in that those positions matter

 

[Southpaw]

Thanks for clarifying charlottesville, you used “riots” in plural which to me seemed to be implying there where a large amount of them (more than zero is bad) but you meant really one so thanks for clearing it up

Keep in mind that beyond Charlottesville, more white supremacy events were planned in American cities. But cities would not give them permission. Also, if you acknowledge no real legitimate 3rd party contender then it doesn't seem fair for you to tell me I'm using a false choice fallacy. I'm not. There's no legitimate option other than Candidate A or Candidate B.

Like your belief system, your chosen standards are fine for yourself. But your standards and belief system are limited when expanded into what we know as 'the real world'. A prime example of this is our election of the next president. It's like if you want Donald Duck to be president because he supports your belief system and you really think he'd do well by our country. He's who you really believe should be the next president. That's fine, you can rest on your morals all you want, but you're not living in the reality that either Joe Biden or Donald Trump will be our next president. And if Joe Biden loses by one vote in the deciding state, and Trump wins, your vote for Donald Duck was effectively for Donald Trump. And if Trump was your next choice, then you probably feel okay. However, if Joe Biden was your next best option, then you'll feel awful because the next 4 years of your life, and our country's lives, will be determined by someone with a completely different belief system.

So just vote for Trump or Biden, okay? Great thanks.

 

[deleted480308]

Keep in mind that beyond Charlottesville, more white supremacy events were planned in American cities. But cities would not give them permission. Also, if you acknowledge no real legitimate 3rd party contender then it doesn't seem fair for you to tell me I'm using a false choice fallacy. I'm not. There's no legitimate option other than Candidate A or Candidate B.

Like your belief system, your chosen standards are fine for yourself. But your standards and belief system are limited when expanded into what we know as 'the real world'. A prime example of this is our election of the next president. It's like if you want Donald Duck to be president because he supports your belief system and you really think he'd do well by our country. He's who you really believe should be the next president. That's fine, you can rest on your morals all you want, but you're not living in the reality that either Joe Biden or Donald Trump will be our next president. And if Joe Biden loses by one vote in the deciding state, and Trump wins, your vote for Donald Duck was effectively for Donald Trump. And if Trump was your next choice, then you probably feel okay. However, if Joe Biden was your next best option, then you'll feel awful because the next 4 years of your life, and our country's lives, will be determined by someone with a completely different belief system.

So just vote for Trump or Biden, okay? Great thanks.

I disagree with your premise. The best way to promote the eventual chance of a third party winning or to pull the existing two parties toward the platforms of those third parties is to actually vote your platform/principles.

you get to pick your approach but I will vote the candidate closest to my ideals regardless of outcome

 

[Southpaw]

I disagree with your premise. The best way to promote the eventual chance of a third party winning or to pull the existing two parties toward the platforms of those third parties is to actually vote your platform/principles.

you get to pick your approach but I will vote the candidate closest to my ideals regardless of outcome

Under normal times I would agree, but these aren't normal times.

 

[deleted480308]

Under normal times I would agree, but these aren't normal times.

I agree with your statement that the times are not normal although likely for different reasons, and my approach is going to stay different

but for what it’s worth, thanks for the pleasant interaction

 

[AMEHigh]

Same here, but that's why the VP pick for Biden will determine if I vote for him or go 3rd party.

Who are your top contenders of the people he’s currently publicly vetting?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Who are your top contenders of the people he’s currently publicly vetting?

If we're going with a minority woman, I could get behind Susan Rice (didn't realize she was being considered until about an hour ago but that's on me). I don't love her, but I think she'd be very good at restoring normalcy to the executive branch in the same way Biden could.

All comers, Gina Raimondo looks promising.

 

[doctalaughs]

Voting third party depends, for me, on who the 2 “viable” candidates are.

for example, if the contest had ended up Bernie vs Trump, I would have voted 3rd party all day because I truly believe Bernie would have been as bad (or worse) for this country as Trump. It’s also true that there is no scenario where I’d vote Trump at this point.

Biden I’m okay with - so he’s got my vote even though my ideals might align better with a 3rd party.

I don’t agree with his decision to pick a specific gender/minority for VP (he should pick the best candidate).... but it’s not quite enough to lose my vote. I understand he’s gotta make a political calculation (just shouldn’t have announced it was pre-determined).

what he should really do is pick Nikki Haley- that would explode some heads!

 

[AMEHigh]

If we're going with a minority woman, I could get behind Susan Rice (didn't realize she was being considered until about an hour ago but that's on me). I don't love her, but I think she'd be very good at restoring normalcy to the executive branch in the same way Biden could.

All comers, Gina Raimondo looks promising.

Cool.
Yeah I like Susan Rice and Tammy Duckworth.
I guess we’ll see!
I hope 3rd party votes don’t cause Trump to win the election, that’s all I’m hoping for.

 

[anbuitachi]

Cool.
Yeah I like Susan Rice and Tammy Duckworth.
I guess we’ll see!
I hope 3rd party votes don’t cause Trump to win the election, that’s all I’m hoping for.

it seems like people on this board doesnt particularly like warren, the native american

 

[Southpaw]

Cool.
Yeah I like Susan Rice and Tammy Duckworth.
I guess we’ll see!
I hope 3rd party votes don’t cause Trump to win the election, that’s all I’m hoping for.

Societally speaking Tammy Duckworth is pure gold. But I honestly can't speak much to her background, aside from her service to country, or her qualifications, aside from her service as a Senator. I know she's also a mom. But President Bonespurs, who has struck a very odd collegial chord with segments of this country especially given his silver spoon NYC upbringing and lack of doing anything ever for anyone that didn't provide self-service, should appropriately get buried in form of debate or the actual vote if he were to ever actually come up against someone like Senator Duckworth. We'll see.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Cool.
Yeah I like Susan Rice and Tammy Duckworth.
I guess we’ll see!
I hope 3rd party votes don’t cause Trump to win the election, that’s all I’m hoping for.

I wouldn't object to Duckworth either from what little I know about her.

 

[anbuitachi]

I wouldn't object to Duckworth either from what little I know about her.

same. all i know is shes missing legs

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

same. all i know is shes missing legs

And is a big proponent of veteran's health care which wouldn't be a surprise.

 

[IMGASMD]

Just saw this.
Elijah McClain's mother relieved he 'is no longer labeled a suspect' after investigation into officers' actions

 

[doctalaughs]

While there are obviously bad cases of racism in policing (and other places) I still don’t buy the narrative of systemic racism.

Opinion | Biden, Claiming ‘Systemic Racism’ in Policing, Defies Science

A detailed new report shows no racial disparities in crimes committed versus arrests made.

www.wsj.com

In a report released days before Mr. Biden’s inauguration, the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics examined whether people of different races were arrested to a degree that was disproportionate to their involvement in crime. The report concluded that there was no statistically significant difference by race between how likely people were to commit serious violent crimes and how likely they were to be arrested. In other words, the data suggested that police officers and sheriff’s deputies focus on criminals’ actions, not their race.

The BJS report did not take cops’ word for who commits crimes. Rather, it relied on victims’ own accounts of who committed crimes against them, as reported through BJS’s National Crime Victimization Survey.

 

[nimbus]

Three Officers and Two Paramedics Are Charged in Elijah McClain’s Death

 

[coffeebythelake]

Three Officers and Two Paramedics Are Charged in Elijah McClain’s Death

Good. The paramedics were irresponsible and culpable for the massive overdose of ketamine.

 

[Airway]

Good. The paramedics were irresponsible and culpable for the massive overdose of ketamine.

Do paramedics make decisions about dosing? I thought generally these were done at a higher level (ie Ed doc) and protocols were written out for them to follow...
1200 hrs to become a paramedic.

 

[ellifino]

Do paramedics make decisions about dosing? I thought generally these were done at a higher level (ie Ed doc) and protocols were written out for them to follow...
1200 hrs to become a paramedic.

They must (or they didn't follow their protocols.) Because there's no way there's a protocol written by a physician at all familiar with ketamine that would have called for injecting this poor child with 500 mg ketamine.

 

[Airway]

They must (or they didn't follow their protocols.) Because there's no way there's a protocol written by a physician at all familiar with ketamine that would have called for injecting this poor child with 500 mg ketamine.

I'd hope so, but I've seen the Ed give 250 mg ketamine without a thought (level 1 academic center) (so maybe they said 500 mg is fine? Or maybe a dosing error?) . I'll admit I've read little about this

 

[chessknt]

wtff 250 mg ketamine? surely you are talking about IM and not IV, and even then that's a high dose

Well to be fair usually when they are giving it the patient is violently psychotic and needs to be immediately put down to allow care to continue.

 

[GassYous]

How much ketamine do you guys give? Because I give like 2-4 im. 500 of ketamine im shouldn't be killing people.

 

[nimbus]

How much ketamine do you guys give? Because I give like 2-4 im. 500 of ketamine im shouldn't be killing people.

That’s correct if you support the airway and hemodynamics. Ketamine 500mg could kill someone if you give it to someone while restraining them by sitting on their chest or otherwise restricting their breathing or impeding circulation. Elijah McLain looked to be about 60-65kg so 500mg would be 8-9mg/kg.

I give propofol 50mg all the time for cardioversions and they all live. I don’t consider it a lethal dose. But if I choked or smothered those patients or held them in a tight bear hug after giving the propofol, some of those patients would die.

 

[nimbus]

https://nasemso.org/wp-content/uploads/HB21-1251-Signing-Statement.pdf

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

If you’re gonna give ketamine 500mg to a 130lb vegetarian massage therapist after choking and taunting and threatening him for 15min, you better know how to deal with it’s effects. My old residency director would have called it an anesthesia clean kill. My delightful, loving Aspy nephew waves his arms too.

YouTube

Aurora lawmakers demand new Elijah McClain death query; chief mandates new police procedures - Sentinel Colorado

AURORA | A panel of Aurora city lawmakers on Tuesday sent a letter to City Manager Jim Twombly formally asking the city to conduct a new, third-party investigation into the death of Elijah McClain, a 23-year-old black man who died days after a violent encounter with Aurora police last summer...

sentinelcolorado.com

Torture, Murder Claimed in Elijah McClain Aurora Police Death

Elijah McClain was unarmed when he was grabbed by police.

www.westword.com

Aurora Follows Usual Playbook by Clearing Cops in Elijah McClain Death

A panel determined that the officers had followed policies and procedures.

www.westword.com

His last words.....

View attachment 310759View attachment 310760

Say his name.

Jesus, those last words are just heartbreaking. Kid sounds like a friggin angel.