Elijah McLain

  • Thread starter Thread starter deleted87051
  • Start date Start date
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members do not see this ad.
sb247 said:
The homeowner asked the police to come clear the house with his alarm

the homeowner himself asked for more cops to show up “get your supervisor “

they have probably cause for intrusion because they got called by his actual house alarm, then they have a guy (no id on him because he has no pants) say he is the owner and they should leave. They cannot verify the guy without ID and the only way to get it is to start walking through a building they don’t know anything about in terms of who else is there. So you secure the guy you have and clear the house. That’s pretty basic security process

people who break into houses do odd things, so wearing boxers doesn’t mean you own a place.
Click to expand...
You were a custodian in someone else’s property.
This was his property. Do you not see a difference?
Do you truly believe this would have happened to a Caucasian person?
 
anbuitachi said:
Further research shows has had alarms mistakenly go off before and all the officer did then was check his ID. But of course there would be no media of that because it went fine.

This situation is complicated by the fact that alarm went off and there's open door. The police take that as a break in and then become way more cautious. Who triggers the alarm and leaves the door open???

Police then draws gun bc he has no idea what's inside. He gives out commands but no one answers initially for few times. Then comes a guy saying he has a gun. The focus then gets shifted to a guy w a gun which he did drop upon request.

This kind of feels like people with no experience responding to open door alarms thinking they know what it's like and throws judgment on the police immediately. I can see why so many are quitting

I can also see how easily movement can be started against doctors.
Click to expand...
Who triggers the alarm and leaves the door open?
I would guess any sleepy person could make that mistake.
How long did it take them to ask for ID?
When the owner kept repeatedly asking what he had done wrong, what kind of answer did he get?
I really love how people who have never experienced racism and discrimination are so sure to completely dismiss someone’s complaint of mistreatment based on color.
Are you a person of color? Have you ever faced discrimination because of your skin color?
Do you believe the owner did anything wrong?
Do you believe if he had been white the cops would have treated him as a suspect and not a potential home owner?
 
chocomorsel said:
How long did they take to ask for ID? Why did they assume he was a burglar and not the owner?
Click to expand...
Because everyone is a risk until you prove otherwise on an unsecured scene. I was found with a mop bucket and a wet floor, still gun point until checked for weapons then sat in a corner as the bad guy (instead of janitor)until they verified with the owner i was supposed to be there.
 
chocomorsel said:
You were a custodian in someone else’s property.
This was his property. Do you not see a difference?
Do you truly believe this would have happened to a Caucasian person?
Click to expand...
Their response was appropriate given the situation. I do not think this was racial and this kind of crying wolf puts people at risk of dismissing legitmate complaints of racial discrimination
 
sb247 said:
(Unless more happened after the front part of the video). He called them there (via his house alarm). From a training standpoint the main mistake was the lone officer stepping inside the house with an unknown guy to cuff him because he doesn’t know the house is cleared. The cops was actually pretty dang calm when he went hands on and guy still kept trying to turn around (that’s a very dangerous time for cops because of proximity) I don’t actually see a ton wrong there in the video i watched. I have been a custodian before and spent some time at gun point when someone set off the perimeter alarm and I didn’t know until cops showed up to clear the building. They were doing the job asked of them by a building owner that bought an alarm set to call police.

are you saying something else should have happened?
Click to expand...
That something else, once they figured he was almost naked was to ask him immediately who he was and what he was doing there.
Instead of assuming he was a burglar and not explaining what they think he did wrong for a while and then arresting him.
Do burglars typically open the homes they are robbing for the police? Or do they try to escape out another exit? Do they announce themselves? Or stay quiet?
And when he asked for a supervisor, it was to lodge a complaint. To have the supervisor diffuse the situation.
Have you ever asked for a supervisor thinking they are supposed to handle the job better than the associate?
 
chocomorsel said:
That something else, once they figured he was almost naked was to ask him immediately who he was and what he was doing there.
Instead of assuming he was a burglar and not explaining what they think he did wrong for a while and then arresting him.
Do burglars typically open the homes they are robbing for the police? Or do they try to escape out another exit? Do they announce themselves? Or stay quiet?
And when he asked for a supervisor, it was to lodge a complaint. To have the supervisor diffuse the situation.
Have you ever asked for a supervisor thinking they are supposed to handle the job better than the associate?
Click to expand...
I’m not trying to play gotcha here, it’s possible I missed this detail. Was he actually arrested? My understanding was they cuffed him so they could clear the house. Did the cops actually arrest him?
 
sb247 said:
I’m not trying to play gotcha here, it’s possible I missed this detail. Was he actually arrested? My understanding was they cuffed him so they could clear the house. Did the cops actually arrest him?
Click to expand...

They cuffed him so they could search because he didn't want to sit down despite multiple orders. He was released shortly after from the car
 
sb247 said:
Their response was appropriate given the situation. I do not think this was racial and this kind of crying wolf puts people at risk of dismissing legitmate complaints of racial discrimination
Click to expand...

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

This is not crying wolf if you are a person of color.
This is the reality of being racially profiled as a person of color.
But since you refuse to even attempt to see that the outcome could most likely have ended up differently for a White person, that a white person would likely have been profiled into “homeowner in underwear in nice neighborhood” versus “burglar in underwear in nice neighborhood” then you and people of color have NOTHING to talk about.

This is NOT crying wolf just because you have never experienced it and do not understand what racial profiling and discrimination is like. This is OUR reality.

However you are entitled to your opinions and views based on your reality. Where you go wrong is when you dismiss our opinions and views based on our experience and reality and call them “crying wolf”. An experience you clearly have never had but are very sure you are correct about.

Adios.

Thank God there are plenty of other White people everywhere who are finally pulling their blinders off and opening their eyes and ears and finally listening to us "crying wolf" as you call it. We don't have to have 100% of you guys believe our cries. We just need to have a majority of you do it. And thankfully it's heading that way.
 
Last edited:
sb247 said:
I’m not trying to play gotcha here, it’s possible I missed this detail. Was he actually arrested? My understanding was they cuffed him so they could clear the house. Did the cops actually arrest him?
Click to expand...
I am trying to say they shouldn’t have cuffed him and put him in the squad car to begin with.
Why did it take them so long to ask him who he was and where his ID was?
 
chocomorsel said:
I am trying to say they shouldn’t have cuffed him and put him in the squad car to begin with.
Why did it take them so long to ask him who he was and where his ID was?
Click to expand...
We disagree on that, he didn’t have id so he needed to be secured until they could clear the house to let him get to his id.
 
vector2 said:
Just an absolute tour de force of a post.



Dude, did you even read what he wrote? If anything - and he can correct me if I’m wrong - my impression is he is 120% supportive of the notion that the vast, vast, vast majority of the blame for unarmed black shootings falls with the police, and 1000% supportive of the current calls to reform police in this country because the police in the US have never fully been able to separate themselves from the deep-seated legacy of racism from which they were formed. He said many of the same things that have already been mentioned in this thread- just much more eloquently and more diplomatically (aka treating you like the snowflake you are and being nice cause I’m sure he’s not aware of your insane trolling from the now-defunct trump thread)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I read what he wrote and I don’t agree with a lot of it (and will address it sometime later) and that’s totally fine. What you’re missing, and why I could totally see having a few beers and chatting for hours with him (and why I could never see doing it with you), is that he wasn’t angry, disrespectful, demeaning, insulting, or closed minded.

Big difference.

Cheers.
 
sb247 said:
We disagree on that, he didn’t have id so he needed to be secured until they could clear the house to let him get to his id.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it'd have been possible to explain that to him, without removing him from his private property without clothes on, especially once the supervisor showed up (who acted worse than the original officer with his inability to have a discussion without force). Especially after the homeowner said he'd already called the alarm company to explain the erroneous alarm. I could be wrong but during the video it appears there's a battery depleted CO2 detector going off as it's not the common sound of a house alarm.

I also wonder if the cops could've used some common sense with their approach as it's terribly uncommon for someone who obviously appears to be in their own home (sleeping, close to naked, questioning someone entering their own home) to be burglarizing it. To me it appears racist, but again to each their own.
 
chocomorsel said:
Who triggers the alarm and leaves the door open?
I would guess any sleepy person could make that mistake.
How long did it take them to ask for ID?
When the owner kept repeatedly asking what he had done wrong, what kind of answer did he get?
I really love how people who have never experienced racism and discrimination are so sure to completely dismiss someone’s complaint of mistreatment based on color.
Are you a person of color? Have you ever faced discrimination because of your skin color?
Do you believe the owner did anything wrong?
Do you believe if he had been white the cops would have treated him as a suspect and not a potential home owner?
Click to expand...

1) i can see MANY scenarios where alarm is triggered and door is left open. house couldve been robbed and robber left, leaving the door open. they could be making a speedy robbery and left door open for quick exit. etc

So if 911 gets a call saying xyz's house is getting robbed. should police just leave if they see the door open? cause who robs with a door open right?

2) You can argue its too long. Though entire video is only several minutes long and there were several factors that delayed this, including involvement of a gun.

3) if i remember correctly, he answered with something along the lines of turn around or something like that?

4) yes im a person of color. i feel insulted you cant tell. arent you a person of color yourself?

5) yes i have faced significant racism due to skin color

6) the only thing i wouldve done differently as a person of color (but to be honest, i never experienced his situation because i am far too poor to own a home, and even if i did, would never be able to afford alarm system), i wouldnt have talked back so much and just did as asked. i wouldve just had a seat

7) no i do not. first instinct with alarm + open door for me is treat everyone as suspect (unless they are like extremes of age, like a toddler or a 100 yr old bedbound grandma). Only when sure do i take them off the list.


but the takeaway point is i hope you didnt assume i was white bc of my post. that would be very messed up and racist
 
Last edited:
Southpaw said:
I wonder if it'd have been possible to explain that to him, without removing him from his private property without clothes on, especially once the supervisor showed up (who acted worse than the original officer with his inability to have a discussion without force). Especially after the homeowner said he'd already called the alarm company to explain the erroneous alarm. I could be wrong but during the video it appears there's a battery depleted CO2 detector going off as it's not the common sound of a house alarm.

I also wonder if the cops could've used some common sense with their approach as it's terribly uncommon for someone who obviously appears to be in their own home (sleeping, close to naked, questioning someone entering their own home) to be burglarizing it. To me it appears racist, but again to each their own.
Click to expand...

Yes.
I think I mentioned this in another thread, why are cops conditioned to think that everyone is a criminal, and then especially Black people, when they get calls like this?
Like I've said before many of us have dealt with weird and even aggressive behavior from patients. My first thought has never been that they're trying to kill me and that I need to use lethal force. But that's what often happens, especially with calls for mental health emergencies, people end up injured or dead at too high of numbers.
So time and time again we see cops roll up and act aggressively and ask questions later. This is exactly what happened with Elijah. They never needed to put their hands on him, no justifiable reason whatsoever.
And why do they yell commands without explaining anything? Elijah and the gentleman on this video (I saw it before when it first came out) kept asking what is going on, rightfully so. I'm so glad that man did not get killed, but another instance of trauma for a person in their house.
Are police trained this way to think everyone is a threat or are people that become police more likely to think this way? Chicken vs egg first?
 
Southpaw said:
I wonder if it'd have been possible to explain that to him, without removing him from his private property without clothes on, especially once the supervisor showed up (who acted worse than the original officer with his inability to have a discussion without force). Especially after the homeowner said he'd already called the alarm company to explain the erroneous alarm. I could be wrong but during the video it appears there's a battery depleted CO2 detector going off as it's not the common sound of a house alarm.

I also wonder if the cops could've used some common sense with their approach as it's terribly uncommon for someone who obviously appears to be in their own home (sleeping, close to naked, questioning someone entering their own home) to be burglarizing it. To me it appears racist, but again to each their own.
Click to expand...

I agree. Things DEFINITELY couldve been done differently. The supervisor did a poor job in my opinion. Shouldve asked for more information since the junior officer summarized it in like 3 sentences and the supervisor wasnt present to witness what had happened. The junior officer was reasonable and did fine IMO.

At the same time, i feel like most of us are just people with NO experience in this stuff judging people who do, and we have to realize that it could be completely different. I've never responded to alarms with open doors myself. I dont have any experience that the police may do regarding what has happened in the past in these situations. Therefore my response/opinion as someone with zero experience may be different.

This is just like the lay public judging doctors for their actions, without the experience or medical knowledge necessary. The media can easily paint doctors in a negative light. Imagine if we were all recorded during our jobs it gets released to the public.
 
anbuitachi said:
1) i can see MANY scenarios where alarm is triggered and door is left open. house couldve been robbed and robber left, leaving the door open. they could be making a speedy robbery and left door open for quick exit. etc

So if 911 gets a call saying xyz's house is getting robbed. should police just leave if they see the door open? cause who robs with a door open right?
Click to expand...

so this is a key point here. and it's where the cops could've used some intelligence. if the door is open and the alarm is going off then I believe you're right. But the key here is that the home alarm doesn't appear to be going off. The homeowner has already called the alarm company to tell them it was a false alarm. just my opinion but the noise in the video sounds more like a battery depleted CO2 alarm. If that's a home alarm going off it's the weakest sounding one I've heard.

anbuitachi said:
2) You can argue its too long. Though entire video is only several minutes long and there were several factors that delayed this, including involvement of a gun.

3) if i remember correctly, he answered with something along the lines of turn around or something like that?

4) yes im a person of color. i feel insulted you cant tell. arent you a person of color yourself?

5) yes i have faced significant racism due to skin color

6) the only thing i wouldve done differently as a person of color (but to be honest, i never experienced his situation because i am far too poor to own a home, and even if i did, would never be able to afford alarm system), i wouldnt have talked back so much and just did as asked. i wouldve just had a seat

7) no i do not. first instinct with alarm + open door for me is treat everyone as suspect (unless they are like extremes of age, like a toddler or a 100 yr old bedbound grandma). Only when sure do i take them off the list.


but the takeaway point is i hope you didnt assume i was white bc of my post. that would be very messed up.
Click to expand...

The biggest problem I have with points 2-7 are the problem I have with all of this with regard to LEOs. They have a problem with power and control. They did not need to completely dominate that situation and remove the homeowner from private property. They chose that route, keep in mind, with gun drawn. They could easily choose a different route of communication. One that doesn't involve confrontation, aggression, and outright disdain with what others have to say.
 
anbuitachi said:
1) i can see MANY scenarios where alarm is triggered and door is left open. house couldve been robbed and robber left, leaving the door open. they could be making a speedy robbery and left door open for quick exit. etc

So if 911 gets a call saying xyz's house is getting robbed. should police just leave if they see the door open? cause who robs with a door open right?

2) You can argue its too long. Though entire video is only several minutes long and there were several factors that delayed this, including involvement of a gun.

3) if i remember correctly, he answered with something along the lines of turn around or something like that?

4) yes im a person of color. i feel insulted you cant tell. arent you a person of color yourself?

5) yes i have faced significant racism due to skin color

6) the only thing i wouldve done differently as a person of color (but to be honest, i never experienced his situation because i am far too poor to own a home, and even if i did, would never be able to afford alarm system), i wouldnt have talked back so much and just did as asked. i wouldve just had a seat

7) no i do not. first instinct with alarm + open door for me is treat everyone as suspect (unless they are like extremes of age, like a toddler or a 100 yr old bedbound grandma). Only when sure do i take them off the list.


but the takeaway point is i hope you didnt assume i was white bc of my post. that would be very messed up and racist
Click to expand...
The fact that you are a person of color who has faced discrimination repeatedly and cannot and will not believe this homeowner's view point that what he felt happened to him and how he felt he was treated was based on his skin color is what's messed up.

Typically the kind of view points you have come from people who have never experienced racism and racial profiling and therefore cannot fathom it.
And that is why I followed it up with all the questions of are you a person of color and faced discrimination. Because I wasn't sure.

Like I have said repeatedly before, we are all biased to a certain level. And therefore even minorities can discriminate against each other.
Just like you seem to be doing to this homeowner by refusing to even attempt to see his side of the story as a person of color.

And how you seem to think I am somehow doing this to you because I can't understand how a person of color refuses to believe that this is could happen to another person of color because he was racially profiled.

And that if this had been a White person, there is a very good chance it would have played out very differently. Much less aggressively. Because they tend to be given the benefit of the doubt while we are often left with the burden of proof.
 
AMEHigh said:
Yes.
I think I mentioned this in another thread, why are cops conditioned to think that everyone is a criminal, and then especially Black people, when they get calls like this?
Like I've said before many of us have dealt with weird and even aggressive behavior from patients. My first thought has never been that they're trying to kill me and that I need to use lethal force. But that's what often happens, especially with calls for mental health emergencies, people end up injured or dead at too high of numbers.
So time and time again we see cops roll up and act aggressively and ask questions later. This is exactly what happened with Elijah. They never needed to put their hands on him, no justifiable reason whatsoever.
And why do they yell commands without explaining anything? Elijah and the gentleman on this video (I saw it before when it first came out) kept asking what is going on, rightfully so. I'm so glad that man did not get killed, but another instance of trauma for a person in their house.
Are police trained this way to think everyone is a threat or are people that become police more likely to think this way? Chicken vs egg first?
Click to expand...

i think that is they key question. why are they conditioned to do this. someone needs to study it and see if it can be fixed instead of posting rules that simply say 'dont do it' . there also needs to be a culture of letting people speak up/defend their actions without having their lives ruined.
 
chocomorsel said:
The fact that you are a person of color who has face discrimination repeatedly and cannot and will not believe this homeowner's view point that what he felt happened to him and how he felt he was treated was based on his skin color is messed up.

Typically the kind of view points you have come from people who have never experienced racism and racial profiling and therefore cannot fathom it.
And that is why I followed it up with all the questions of are you a person of color and faced discrimination.

Like I have said repeatedly before, we are all biased to a certain level. And therefore even minorities can discriminate against each other.
Just like you seem to be doing to this homeowner by refusing to even attempt to see his side of the story as a person of color.

And how you seem to think I am somehow doing this to you because I can't understand how a person of color refuses to believe that this is could happen to another person of color because he was racially profiled.
Click to expand...

Wait i never said that about the home owner. what?
 
I wonder what would've happened if his wife wasn't home to bring out his ID?
He already said he lived there, that was his van and he was loading supplies and unloading trash for pick up.
Why was he handcuffed and yelled at for being in front of his own home not doing anything violent?
The police are out of control, full stop.

www.actionnewsjax.com

Video: Black Miami doctor who tests homeless for COVID-19 handcuffed, detained outside own home

Miami police officials are investigating the detainment of Dr. Armen Henderson, who was handcuffed by a patrol sergeant outside his own home as he loaded up supplies to tend to the city’s homeless population during the COVID-19 pandemic.
www.actionnewsjax.com www.actionnewsjax.com
 
Southpaw said:
so this is a key point here. and it's where the cops could've used some intelligence. if the door is open and the alarm is going off then I believe you're right. But the key here is that the home alarm doesn't appear to be going off. The homeowner has already called the alarm company to tell them it was a false alarm. just my opinion but the noise in the video sounds more like a battery depleted CO2 alarm. If that's a home alarm going off it's the weakest sounding one I've heard.



The biggest problem I have with points 2-7 are the problem I have with all of this with regard to LEOs. They have a problem with power and control. They did not need to completely dominate that situation and remove the homeowner from private property. They chose that route, keep in mind, with gun drawn. They could easily choose a different route of communication. One that doesn't involve confrontation, aggression, and outright disdain with what others have to say.
Click to expand...

Not arguing it could have gone differently. for sure it could and probably should (especially with the supervising officer).

however if i were a cop, i can bet you whenever im responding to these situations, im watching out for my safety first. just like as a doctor intubating covid patients, im watching out for my safety first. its easy to judge from a 3rd person point of view from a video that is clearly designed to be biased, with the descriptions written in TEXT, but from the cops point of view it's not that simple IMO. if i were the cop, i would take ALL scenarios into consideration. Just because the man says hes sleeping, or the fact that he's in boxers, wont have my drop my guard. And thats regardless of the skin color of the home owner.


As i said above, i cant afford a home, and certainly not a fancy alarm system. I dont know how it works. You cant just disable the alarm from inside? If i were a robber, id prob do that. The police department responded saying the alarm company never cancelled the dispatch request
 
anbuitachi said:
Not arguing it could have gone differently. for sure it could and probably should (especially with the supervising officer).

however if i were a cop, i can bet you whenever im responding to these situations, im watching out for my safety first. just like as a doctor intubating covid patients, im watching out for my safety first. its easy to judge from a 3rd person point of view, a video that is clearly designed to be biased, with the descriptions written in TEXT, but from the cops point of view it's not that simple IMO. if i were the cop, i would take ALL scenarios into consideration. Just because the man says hes sleeping, or the fact that he's in boxers, wont have my drop my guard. And thats regardless of the skin color of the home owner.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with that. It's fair. The first officer in my opinion, for the most part, acted appropriately. But come on, after a couple of minutes of conversation it became pretty clear what was going on. The guy was sleeping, was awakened (after calling the alarm company), was shocked police arrived, and didn't feel they needed to be there. That's fair! And from that point the situation could have totally deescalated.

However, other cops show up, supervisor included, and very quickly removed the man from his own home. It's just poor treatment. Plain and simple. And I have to be honest - it looks racist to me.
 
anbuitachi said:
i think that is they key question. why are they conditioned to do this. someone needs to study it and see if it can be fixed instead of posting rules that simply say 'dont do it' . there also needs to be a culture of letting people speak up/defend their actions without having their lives ruined.
Click to expand...

Well it seems like some of it definitely goes back to the history of the police.
First police were slave patrols to control Black people. Same happened during Jim Crown and obviously now.
Also, I read an article talking about how they were sent to poor neighborhoods where a lot of immigrants used to live like Irish people and were there to control them. The Irish would go to pubs and police assumed they were criminals. Rich people had enough space and money to drink at home. So ultimately I think it comes down to decades of police being conditioned that Black and/or poor people are likely criminals, hence why we're at where we are today. There is plenty of research and evidence about biases, racism, unfair treatment of the police force, but people seem to not want to believe it.

And as far as how to solve it, at this point seems like we need to tear the whole system down and start over. That of course goes along with a whole bunch of societal changes that need to happen as well. And to be honest I think a whole lot of things would be better in this world if more women were in charge.
 
anbuitachi said:
As i said above, i cant afford a home, and certainly not a fancy alarm system. I dont know how it works. You cant just disable the alarm from inside? If i were a robber, id prob do that. The police department responded saying the alarm company never cancelled the dispatch request
Click to expand...

Two issues here. 1) if you can't afford a home and a home alarm system then you're doing anesthesia wrong. I think I'm like the 100th person here on this forum to tell you that. So moving on....

2) Once the alarm goes off the alarm company is typically immediately notified if the alarm system is wired appropriately. If the alarm company isn't called by the homeowner within a set time and notified of a false alarm, then they call the police (or maybe 911...not sure).

So no, you can't simply disable the alarm from the inside unless you know the code set by presumably the homeowner.

Also, if the police said they were never called off then maybe they're right. Perhaps the alarm company never called them off. All we know, based on the video, is that the homeowner said he called the company to notify them of a false alarm and in the video it does not appear to be a home alarm that's going off.
 
Last edited:
anbuitachi said:
Wait i never said that about the home owner. what?
Click to expand...
Then I must have mixed your responses up with @sb247 earlier in the post. Apologies.
And by that one post I was responding to, I cannot tell you are a person of color. Not everyone is as overt as me in telling everyone they are a minority. And that is why I follow it up with pointed questions.
 
AMEHigh said:
Well it seems like some of it definitely goes back to the history of the police.
First police were slave patrols to control Black people. Same happened during Jim Crown and obviously now.
Also, I read an article talking about how they were sent to poor neighborhoods where a lot of immigrants used to live like Irish people and were there to control them. The Irish would go to pubs and police assumed they were criminals. Rich people had enough space and money to drink at home. So ultimately I think it comes down to decades of police being conditioned that Black and/or poor people are likely criminals, hence why we're at where we are today. There is plenty of research and evidence about biases, racism, unfair treatment of the police force, but people seem to not want to believe it.

And as far as how to solve it, at this point seems like we need to tear the whole system down and start over. That of course goes along with a whole bunch of societal changes that need to happen as well. And to be honest I think a whole lot of things would be better in this world if more women were in charge.
Click to expand...

im curious to how much of the police force is even that educated on the history of police... such as being slave patrols and stuff..
that would be an interesting experiment, picking randomly 1000 officers and testing them on the history of policing in relation to race

Thats another issue people bring up these days. More police sent to poor neighborhoods, thus more arrests. Intention is supposedly to keep crime lower in these areas. Some people view it as unfair. I dont know enough about history to know which started first, the high crime rate, then police sent there, or police sent there, causing more arrests. Either way, dont think they'll be able to design a system anytime soon that satisfies both sides

One thing i dont like though.. is that police units are being disbanded here in my poor neighborhood, and violence has gone up significantly, giving me a lot more work to do at work...
 
anbuitachi said:
Not arguing it could have gone differently. for sure it could and probably should (especially with the supervising officer).

however if i were a cop, i can bet you whenever im responding to these situations, im watching out for my safety first. just like as a doctor intubating covid patients, im watching out for my safety first. its easy to judge from a 3rd person point of view from a video that is clearly designed to be biased, with the descriptions written in TEXT, but from the cops point of view it's not that simple IMO. if i were the cop, i would take ALL scenarios into consideration. Just because the man says hes sleeping, or the fact that he's in boxers, wont have my drop my guard. And thats regardless of the skin color of the home owner.


As i said above, i cant afford a home, and certainly not a fancy alarm system. I dont know how it works. You cant just disable the alarm from inside? If i were a robber, id prob do that. The police department responded saying the alarm company never cancelled the dispatch request
Click to expand...
Alarms need passcodes. And unless you know the passcode you can't just disable it. Maybe by taking a hammer to it and destroying it you can.
 
Southpaw said:
Two issues here. 1) if you can't afford a home and a home alarm system then you're doing anesthesia wrong. I think I'm like the 100th person here on this forum to tell you that. So moving on....

2) Once the alarm goes off the alarm company is typically immediately notified if the alarm system is wired appropriately. If the alarm company isn't called by the homeowner within a set time and notified of a false alarm, then they call the police (or maybe 911...not sure).

So no, you can't simply disable the alarm from the inside unless you know the code set by presumably the homeowner.

Also, if the police said they were never called off then maybe they're right. Perhaps the alarm company never called them off. All we know, based on the video, is that the homeowner said he called the company to notify them of a false alarm and in the video it does not appear to be a home alarm that's going off.
Click to expand...
Seriously hoping this is a resident living in NYC. I think based on other posts he's a resident. Could be wrong though.
 
AMEHigh said:
I wonder what would've happened if his wife wasn't home to bring out his ID?
He already said he lived there, that was his van and he was loading supplies and unloading trash for pick up.
Why was he handcuffed and yelled at for being in front of his own home not doing anything violent?
The police are out of control, full stop.

www.actionnewsjax.com

Video: Black Miami doctor who tests homeless for COVID-19 handcuffed, detained outside own home

Miami police officials are investigating the detainment of Dr. Armen Henderson, who was handcuffed by a patrol sergeant outside his own home as he loaded up supplies to tend to the city’s homeless population during the COVID-19 pandemic.
www.actionnewsjax.com www.actionnewsjax.com
Click to expand...
I’m with you on this one being out of line, ask for the guys ID (he was driving so he should have it). If it matches the house, you move on.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Wait, do what now?
Click to expand...

Yep I said it.
Don’t want to derail the thread and get reprimanded for talking about sexism which is a whole different topic.
Someone asked about solutions. I think if more women were given the chance at leadership positions and decision making in general society would be different. I mean things aren’t going too well with mostly men in charge, so might as well try something different. Shrug.
 
AMEHigh said:
Yep I said it.
Don’t want to derail the thread and get reprimanded for talking about sexism which is a whole different topic.
Someone asked about solutions. I think if more women were given the chance at leadership positions and decision making in general society would be different. I mean things aren’t going too well with mostly men in charge, so might as well try something different. Shrug.
Click to expand...
So if she runs in 2024 you'll be voting for Nikki Haley?
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
So if she runs in 2024 you'll be voting for Nikki Haley?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about for president?
I don’t know enough about her to have an opinion and it would obviously depend on what my other options are. But dear lord can’t we just get through this election first!

And I wasn’t just talking about president. I’m talking about companies, local government, state government, judges, organizations, etc. In my dreams I like to imagine a world where white men aren’t largely in charge and controlling the wealth in this country. Not sorry about my opinion.
 
AMEHigh said:
Are you talking about for president?
I don’t know enough about her to have an opinion and it would obviously depend on what my other options are. But dear lord can’t we just get through this election first!

And I wasn’t just talking about president. I’m talking about companies, local government, state government, judges, organizations, etc. In my dreams I like to imagine a world where white men aren’t largely in charge and controlling the wealth in this country. Not sorry about my opinion.
Click to expand...
Ah, so you actually do care first and foremost about someone's qualifications? Good enough for me.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Ah, so you actually do care first and foremost about someone's qualifications? Good enough for me.
Click to expand...

While I think having a black woman as VP would be a good thing, I think that criterion lags far, far behind 1. Is the person qualified to be president since they would be one almost-eighty-year-old heartbeat away from the big seat, 2. Is that person going to significantly help the overall ticket since each day that goes by with trump as president becomes more and more of an existential threat
 
vector2 said:
While I think having a black woman as VP would be a good thing, I think that criterion lags far, far behind 1. Is the person qualified to be president since they would be one almost-eighty-year-old heartbeat away from the big seat, 2. Is that person going to significantly help the overall ticket since each day that goes by with trump as president becomes more and more of an existential threat
Click to expand...

I think biden only looking at women candidates for VP is a form of sexism...
 
vector2 said:
While I think having a black woman as VP would be a good thing, I think that criterion lags far, far behind 1. Is the person qualified to be president since they would be one almost-eighty-year-old heartbeat away from the big seat, 2. Is that person going to significantly help the overall ticket since each day that goes by with trump as president becomes more and more of an existential threat
Click to expand...
Yeah that has made me question voting for him as I am not aware of any Democrat woman of color who I agree with enough on policy that I'd be okay voting for her in this position since she would be the vice president most likely to become President in my lifetime. I'm sure there are some I'm just unaware of, but it'll be interesting to see.

Kinda surprised he hasn't picked someone already.
 
vector2 said:
While I think having a black woman as VP would be a good thing, I think that criterion lags far, far behind 1. Is the person qualified to be president since they would be one almost-eighty-year-old heartbeat away from the big seat, 2. Is that person going to significantly help the overall ticket since each day that goes by with trump as president becomes more and more of an existential threat
Click to expand...
So you think gender/race gives someone qualifications? Why would their race/gender be relevant?
 
sb247 said:
So you think gender/race gives someone qualifications? Why would their race/gender be relevant?
Click to expand...


I dunno. Ask people who voted for Trump. It certainly wasn’t his experience and qualifications that got him elected.
 
Southpaw said:
so this is a key point here. and it's where the cops could've used some intelligence. if the door is open and the alarm is going off then I believe you're right. But the key here is that the home alarm doesn't appear to be going off. The homeowner has already called the alarm company to tell them it was a false alarm. just my opinion but the noise in the video sounds more like a battery depleted CO2 alarm. If that's a home alarm going off it's the weakest sounding one I've heard.



The biggest problem I have with points 2-7 are the problem I have with all of this with regard to LEOs. They have a problem with power and control. They did not need to completely dominate that situation and remove the homeowner from private property. They chose that route, keep in mind, with gun drawn. They could easily choose a different route of communication. One that doesn't involve confrontation, aggression, and outright disdain with what others have to say.
Click to expand...


speaking of power and control....

thefreethoughtproject.com

NO CHARGES for Cop Caught on Video Attacking a Child With No Arms or Legs

Despite stomach-turning video evidence of a police officer attacking a quadruple amputee in a children's home, the DA decided not to charge him.
thefreethoughtproject.com thefreethoughtproject.com
 
sb247 said:
So you think gender/race gives someone qualifications? Why would their race/gender be relevant?
Click to expand...
nimbus said:
I dunno. Ask people who voted for Trump. It certainly wasn’t his experience and qualifications that got him elected.
Click to expand...

Those things didn't matter to me :shrug:
 
nimbus said:
I dunno. Ask people who voted for Trump. It certainly wasn’t his experience and qualifications that got him elected.
Click to expand...
you show me someone saying that are really glad they were able to get a white man in the white house and I'll question them too...gender/race are not qualifications
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Yeah that has made me question voting for him as I am not aware of any Democrat woman of color who I agree with enough on policy that I'd be okay voting for her in this position since she would be the vice president most likely to become President in my lifetime. I'm sure there are some I'm just unaware of, but it'll be interesting to see.

Kinda surprised he hasn't picked someone already.
Click to expand...

I would not be so sure whoever is his VP is a "shoe-in" since Biden is doing a weird thing and has only committed for 4 yrs. That means a GOP challenger would be running against a non-incumbent in 2024 which gives that person a big step up since if it happens to the VP, we all know the VP is mostly a ceremonial position unless you're Dick Cheney. Regardless, for the life of me it's beyond my comprehension how anyone could vote third-party when trump is on the ticket. I always thought "Anyone but X" is a specious statement because we should be making decisions based on policy, but trump is the first president in my lifetime to make that statement very close to true.
 
vector2 said:
I would not be so sure whoever is his VP is a "shoe-in" since Biden is doing a weird thing and has only committed for 4 yrs. That means a GOP challenger would be running against a non-incumbent in 2024 which gives that person a big step up since if it happens to the VP, we all know the VP is mostly a ceremonial position unless you're Dick Cheney. Regardless, for the life of me it's beyond my comprehension how anyone could vote third-party when trump is on the ticket. I always thought "Anyone but X" is a specious statement because we should be making decisions based on policy, but trump is the first president in my lifetime to make that statement very close to true.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about the 2024 election, I'm saying that Biden has a pretty good chance of dying in office.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Same here, but that's why the VP pick for Biden will determine if I vote for him or go 3rd party.
Click to expand...

I've voted 3rd party a few times. Especially when I had that libertarian twinge and they had a decent candidate. Those were fun times. In my opinion there's never been a more important election in our history and one in which America needs to send a message. There's never been another election in which I believed a 3rd party vote is a wasted vote (though plenty of others have said that in previous elections, I didn't believe it). America is voting on who we are. Are we the country that we were pre-Trump? Or are we Trump? We went from the first black president to literal racist riots in American cities. People are LYING to themselves if they feel that has nothing to do with who the president is.

I'm not going to rehash all my beefs with Trump because there have been so many. But there's never been a time in my life when I believed America was the country that Trump appears to want us to be. I could never vote for him and or anyone like him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom