EM PD - Ask Me Anything

[gamerEMdoc]

CORD is saying you should only do one EM rotation. If thats the case, and students actually abide by that, then there should be plenty of open rotation spots from July - Nov. If you only need one rotation/SLOE, and apps can't be accessed until the end of October, there should be plenty of opportunity for students to get that one rotation.

The biggest question will be, what will happen if students do more than one? Will programs hold it against them? IDK the answer but it will sure be interesting to see.

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[Doctor_Strange]

Definitely feeling a bit of pressure as I have a July audition at my nearby program (not home institution) but they haven't let us know if they'll be allowing students back yet. Coupled with the fact that my step 2/level 2 were cancelled and I couldn't get anything sooner than August. very frustrating to be a DO student with limited options right now...

Same exact position. My July rotation is all but confirmed, except there they have not officially given the green light. My suspicion is they will back out, which in that case my other rotation currently 100% confirmed in August will I suppose be my go-to despite it being a new rotation site. Oh, and my Step 2 got pushed by 2 months. So, just all kinds of positive energy over here.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Same exact position. My July rotation is all but confirmed, except there they have not officially given the green light. My suspicion is they will back out, which in that case my other rotation currently 100% confirmed in August will I suppose be my go-to despite it being a new rotation site. Oh, and my Step 2 got pushed by 2 months. So, just all kinds of positive energy over here.

Well to be fair, you are only supposed to have one. And the August one will be over in plenty enough time to get a sloe written since apps wont be looked at until November.

 

[camtheram1815]

CORD is saying you should only do one EM rotation. If thats the case, and students actually abide by that, then there should be plenty of open rotation spots from July - Nov. If you only need one rotation/SLOE, and apps can't be accessed until the end of October, there should be plenty of opportunity for students to get that one rotation.

The biggest question will be, what will happen if students do more than one? Will programs hold it against them? IDK the answer but it will sure be interesting to see.

Can you answer whether multiple home EM rotations will be looked at unfavorably?

For example, my school is affiliated with multiple hospitals, one of which has an EM residency program. I'm going to get one SLOE from that one in August. But my school offers internal home rotations in a non-residency affiliated community ED and also a Peds ED (both are non-SLOE rotations). It won't be looked at unfavorably if I do all three of these rotations, correct?

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Well to be fair, you are only supposed to have one. And the August one will be over in plenty enough time to get a sloe written since apps wont be looked at until November.

Coincidentally enough, my July rotation now has been 100% confirmed via email! I'm gonna let the other program know that I will respectfully rescind my spot.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Can you answer whether multiple home EM rotations will be looked at unfavorably?

For example, my school is affiliated with multiple hospitals, one of which has an EM residency program. I'm going to get one SLOE from that one in August. But my school offers internal home rotations in a non-residency affiliated community ED and also a Peds ED (both are non-SLOE rotations). It won't be looked at unfavorably if I do all three of these rotations, correct?

I suspect it will, but to how much of a degree idk. In terms of schools with multiple sites/programs, that got asked on CORD actually. It seems like the prevailing wisdom was that if a med school had two on-site residencies, it would be ok to do two. But otherwise, only one EM rotation, and it should be a home rotation unless a school is "an orphan" program that really doesn't have a defined home rotation but rather just affiliations with a bunch of programs.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Interesting, I just figured since these are offered as home rotations and technically I'm not taking up other rotators (other than my own class which there is enough space for), it wouldn't be an issue no matter how many I did.

My school is kind of a hybrid between your two examples. This is actually the first year we have an associated residency program; we traditionally rotate with the community ED that has no program but this year we were "adopted" by the residency program. So sounds like, to be on the safe side, perhaps the best move to make is to do the residency SLOE rotation + the community EM and call it good?

Thanks in advance!

I absolutely wouldnt do more than one unless I had too. Get your SLOE from the residency one. Unless required by your school, I think you are risking some backlash doing more than one. AAMC clearly says not to. CORD suggests one. People that do more unless required really run the risk of being labeled asbreaking the rules.

That doesn’t mean that everyone needs to go and cancel their second rotation right this second. I don’t think it’s unreasonable if it’s a later rotation to see how this all plays out. But I certainly wouldn’t be doing three rotations in a row from July to September like a lot of people try to do in most years.

 

[Brules_Rules]

Do you have any thoughts on what the ramifications/perceptions of doing non-SLOE (but EM department based) away rotations would be? I totally get the need to reduce certain away rotations so that students at orphan programs can at least get a single SLOE this year, but I wasn't sure what the consensus was regarding someone rotating in something like EM ultrasound, PEDs EM, etc to get a sense for what other programs would be like. As someone at a large academic program it would be great to get exposure to a county or community environment before having to put together a rank list (even just hanging out in the ED ultrasounding random patients seems like it would give at least a little bit of an idea what a program was like).

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Do you have any thoughts on what the ramifications/perceptions of doing non-SLOE (but EM department based) away rotations would be? I totally get the need to reduce certain away rotations so that students at orphan programs can at least get a single SLOE this year, but I wasn't sure what the consensus was regarding someone rotating in something like EM ultrasound, PEDs EM, etc to get a sense for what other programs would be like. As someone at a large academic program it would be great to get exposure to a county or community environment before having to put together a rank list (even just hanging out in the ED ultrasounding random patients seems like it would give at least a little bit of an idea what a program was like).

I think that would be OK if the school is ok with away electives that arent absolutely necessary and if the programs are ok with it. But my understanding is schools are being told “no aways” period unless you dont have a residency program at your school in the students chosen field, and if thats the case, then 1 away.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thanks for this information. To clarify, my plan was to receive a standard LOR from the community rotation as they wouldn't even offer me a SLOE.

I'm a little confused though. So you are saying that the AAMC/CORD are limiting all EM rotations, home OR away, to one total? Is this new information?? All the verbiage I see, including in the current posted CORD statement, is regarding away rotations only. I don't see any specifiers or guidance for internal home programs on how they handle students and whether they should limit spots? For example, last week I was on a Zoom conference with a Clerkship Director who discussed having students participate in a longitudinal clerkship that will last 2 or 3 months and would generate one SLOE from that.

Also curious on how you think schools will handle the sub-specialties (Peds EM, US, Tox, etc...), in addition to a SLOE rotation, because I'd imagine that might be a common occurrence.

Thanks again!

from aamc

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2020-05/covid19_Final_Recommendations_05112020.pdf

from cord

https://www.cordem.org/globalassets/files/2statement_med-students-and-covid_4.8.2020.pdf

Cord is also currently working on a non-EM sloe for people to get letters of evaluation from non-EM fields.

 

[Voch119]

Coming from a DO school where every rotation is an "away" since we're spread out all over the place, applying the no aways reasoning to us doesn't really make sense. I think outside of the 4 state DO schools, these regulations let DOs somewhat fall through the cracks.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Coming from a DO school where every rotation is an "away" since we're spread out all over the place, applying the no aways reasoning to us doesn't really make sense. I think outside of the 4 state DO schools, these regulations let DOs somewhat fall through the cracks.

Right. Which is why those students are the ones that should be doing an away, bc their school doesnt have an on site residency. CORD has a mega-list of “orphan schools” that dont have a residency, they are almost all DO schools and they are encouraging if your program is taking aways to select your candidates from those schools.

 

[Lossrx]

If we are reapplication given everything going on ... do you think reusing sloe and lor would be ok?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I think you will likely have to. Or else just roll with LORs from your current program if you are a prelim.

 

[boolin_1]

https://acoep.org/main/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/2020-Res-App-Consensus-Statement-v2.pdf

the rules


1. only one EM rotation
2. one SLOE
3. you can have non-EM SLOE's in addition to the 1 SLOE
4. all virtual interviews
5. interview at 12, max 17 with exceptions to couples and people at risk of not matching (not outlined)
6. be mindful of the entire app because other parts of the app will be more important now


in regards one number 3. I am not sure if it's saying that you can have a Non-EM SLOE as a replacement of that one-SLOE or means in addition to the one SLOE

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Here’s a link to the joint statement:

EMRA Has Your Back

We are advocates representing our members, protecting the practice of emergency medicine and supporting EM physician training.

www.emra.org

in summary:

I think now its clear you should only be doing one EM rotation and getting one SLOE. Anything more and you are blatantly going against the advice of aaem, acep, emra, cord, saem, cdem, etc. So now that there is a clear directive, I do think getting more than one will be looked as selfish and could hurt you.
For those without a home program, make your one rotation count. Do it at your top choice, if possible.

 

[Oligodinero]

Here's my dilemma, now that this joint guideline just got released today. I'm a DO student without a home EM program and I'm in a unique situation as I'm in a 3 year DO program....just finished didactics, now about to start my last year of medical school which is my third year...my schedule doesn't have any wiggle room. My first 2 scheduled rotations are EM auditions...one local to my school beginning June 1st, and the next a couple hundred miles away. I had a third set up for November before the whole COVID-19 pandemic.
Should I, now one month out from block 2, cancel that second EM rotation? Is it too "last minute" to do this to them? I don't even know what I'd fill my limited schedule with if I did cancel that rotation. I can certainly cancel my 3rd EM rotation as that's pretty far out. What would you advise?

 

[boolin_1]

So I have one shot at a SLOE, and it's in one month, at a program I don't particularly like. After that I don't have any more chances, and there's even a possibility that it gets canceled.

I can try to apply to more on VSAS in case it gets canceled, but VSAS has a long ass wait to even get in, and there's only 25 mins allowed when in VSAS. And one of the stipulations for the programs that still takes students would be "have you been accepted to another site with a residency program" , and you have to be in a neighboring state, and I bet all their spots are already full by the people who applied at 8:00:01 AM this morning.

let's say I go on my one away-rotation within a month. I then am not allowed to do any more aways. and I'll be applying to emergency medicine with, at most, 16 shifts under my belt.

i'm going to defer a year.

 

[Pokedoc]

For anyone looking for clarification I was able to get in contact with the president of EMRA who stated that an EM rotation that is not residency-based (like at a local ED) is perfectly fine to rotate at even if you will be doing one other audition rotation with an EM program. She said that since it is not considered an audition rotation it is fair game.

 

[Brules_Rules]

So I have one shot at a SLOE, and it's in one month, at a program I don't particularly like. After that I don't have any more chances, and there's even a possibility that it gets canceled.

I can try to apply to more on VSAS in case it gets canceled, but VSAS has a long ass wait to even get in, and there's only 25 mins allowed when in VSAS. And one of the stipulations for the programs that still takes students would be "have you been accepted to another site with a residency program" , and you have to be in a neighboring state, and I bet all their spots are already full by the people who applied at 8:00:01 AM this morning.

let's say I go on my one away-rotation within a month. I then am not allowed to do any more aways. and I'll be applying to emergency medicine with, at most, 16 shifts under my belt.

i'm going to defer a year.

Realistically, I do think that this may be a year where some applicants will need to more seriously consider the possibility of deferral, prelim year, or dual application (at least dual application would be more feasible this year given virtual interviews). Unfortunately I think the goal posts have really shifted this cycle, and most of the advising many of us received regarding EM over the past 3 years of med school no longer applies in the current environment.

My hope would be that PDs wherever we rotate for our SLOE this year would perhaps be more willing to have direct and honest discussions with applicants about their competitiveness and likelihood of matching this cycle. Specifically, I wonder if PDs would be more forthcoming about general SLOE contents this year so that applicants can plan accordingly. I know this was a major violation in the past, with one of the major arguments being that if students knew their SLOE contents not only would evaluators be less honest, but also that students would just do as many away rotations as needed until they had 2 or 3 good letters. However, this year, with the limitation of a single SLOE/away rotation (and the concomitant increased emphasis on this single SLOE in the application process) it certainly seems a little more reasonable to tell rotators earlier on if they should be considering alternatives to emergency medicine when they apply this fall.

 

[longtimelurker2015]

Here’s a link to the joint statement:

EMRA Has Your Back

We are advocates representing our members, protecting the practice of emergency medicine and supporting EM physician training.

www.emra.org

in summary:
View attachment 308009

I think now its clear you should only be doing one EM rotation and getting one SLOE. Anything more and you are blatantly going against the advice of aaem, acep, emra, cord, saem, cdem, etc. So now that there is a clear directive, I do think getting more than one will be looked as selfish and could hurt you.
For those without a home program, make your one rotation count. Do it at your top choice, if possible.

I'm on the resident board of one of those organizations, and second what @gamerEMdoc said. Everyone, do 1 EM rotation this season. Then take the additional months to explore some completely non-EM related electives! Unique opportunity during these unusual times.

 

[AppleB]

I'm on the resident board of one of those organizations, and second what @gamerEMdoc said. Everyone, do 1 EM rotation this season. Then take the additional months to explore some completely non-EM related electives! Unique opportunity during these unusual times.

Do you think if I have a rotation in July already scheduled and end up magically getting a audition rotation for my number 1/2 choice, is one month notice to short to drop it?

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Same exact situation. July rotation lined up. Dream program, for which I've applied to, is for August -- if they approve me, I'd rather duck out of my July spot.

 

[12jas]

I really feel like the consensus hurts DO's who have relied on auditions as a way to get their foot in the door. I currently have two auditions set up one in July and August. I don't have non-SLOE letters lined up for my application because I was counting on those letters. So I either apply with two SLOES and risk being labelled as a rule breaker or one SLOE and no geographic ties where more than likely as a DO my app will be ignored.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Here's my dilemma, now that this joint guideline just got released today. I'm a DO student without a home EM program and I'm in a unique situation as I'm in a 3 year DO program....just finished didactics, now about to start my last year of medical school which is my third year...my schedule doesn't have any wiggle room. My first 2 scheduled rotations are EM auditions...one local to my school beginning June 1st, and the next a couple hundred miles away. I had a third set up for November before the whole COVID-19 pandemic.
Should I, now one month out from block 2, cancel that second EM rotation? Is it too "last minute" to do this to them? I don't even know what I'd fill my limited schedule with if I did cancel that rotation. I can certainly cancel my 3rd EM rotation as that's pretty far out. What would you advise?

Contact them and explain that you just got the memo released today, explain that you will have already done one month, and are seeking guidance because on one hand its a late cancellation, but on the other, you don't want to be perceived as taking opportunities from other students in light of the memo that just was released.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Do you think if I have a rotation in July already scheduled and end up magically getting a audition rotation for my number 1/2 choice, is one month notice to short to drop it?

You can drop it, just realized you may not get an interview there. Some places may not care, others will. If you are doing one rotation this year, it should ideally be at one of your top choices if you can.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Same exact situation. July rotation lined up. Dream program, for which I've applied to, is for August -- if they approve me, I'd rather duck out of my July spot.

Gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I really feel like the consensus hurts DO's who have relied on auditions as a way to get their foot in the door. I currently have two auditions set up one in July and August. I don't have non-SLOE letters lined up for my application because I was counting on those letters. So I either apply with two SLOES and risk being labelled as a rule breaker or one SLOE and no geographic ties where more than likely as a DO my app will be ignored.

Yep. But its not an easy situation for many students.

 

[Pokedoc]

Given the recent recommendations to only do one EM audition this year, what non-EM rotations do you see that PDs hold in higher regard when it comes to letters of recommendation for residency? Critical care? Anesthesia? Trauma surgery?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Given the recent recommendations to only do one EM audition this year, what non-EM rotations do you see that PDs hold in higher regard when it comes to letters of recommendation for residency? Critical care? Anesthesia? Trauma surgery?

Critical care and trauma for sure. Anesthesia I doubt will be that helpful depending on where you rotate just because have the time you may work with so many different people, getting a genuine assessment about you is limited.

 

[Pokedoc]

Critical care and trauma for sure. Anesthesia I doubt will be that helpful depending on where you rotate just because have the time you may work with so many different people, getting a genuine assessment about you is limited.

Thank you! Gotta make the best of a crappy situation.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thank you! Gotta make the best of a crappy situation.

That's all anyone can do really.

 

[kaygeebee]

So I have one shot at a SLOE, and it's in one month, at a program I don't particularly like. After that I don't have any more chances, and there's even a possibility that it gets canceled.

I can try to apply to more on VSAS in case it gets canceled, but VSAS has a long ass wait to even get in, and there's only 25 mins allowed when in VSAS. And one of the stipulations for the programs that still takes students would be "have you been accepted to another site with a residency program" , and you have to be in a neighboring state, and I bet all their spots are already full by the people who applied at 8:00:01 AM this morning.

let's say I go on my one away-rotation within a month. I then am not allowed to do any more aways. and I'll be applying to emergency medicine with, at most, 16 shifts under my belt.

i'm going to defer a year.

keep the faith, bro. frankly we have no idea what could happen next year, none of us knew this would be the situation for our application year. make sure the rest of your app is tight, work your ass off during whichever rotations you have, and reach out to your dream programs to show genuine interest. things are messy and uncertain this year but it could all work out.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

So I have one shot at a SLOE, and it's in one month, at a program I don't particularly like. After that I don't have any more chances, and there's even a possibility that it gets canceled.

I can try to apply to more on VSAS in case it gets canceled, but VSAS has a long ass wait to even get in, and there's only 25 mins allowed when in VSAS. And one of the stipulations for the programs that still takes students would be "have you been accepted to another site with a residency program" , and you have to be in a neighboring state, and I bet all their spots are already full by the people who applied at 8:00:01 AM this morning.

let's say I go on my one away-rotation within a month. I then am not allowed to do any more aways. and I'll be applying to emergency medicine with, at most, 16 shifts under my belt.

i'm going to defer a year.

What makes you think next year will be different? There's a lot of uncertainty with COVID, and unless there is a vaccine in record time, idk that next year will be any different than this year. I get the frustration, but its out of everyones control at this point. It sucks. But a lot of things totally suck right now. I wouldn't just give up as it stands right now, because next year may not be any better.

 

[boolin_1]

What makes you think next year will be different? There's a lot of uncertainty with COVID, and unless there is a vaccine in record time, idk that next year will be any different than this year. I get the frustration, but its out of everyones control at this point. It sucks. But a lot of things totally suck right now. I wouldn't just give up as it stands right now, because next year may not be any better.

Appreciate the level headed-ness, I am not actually interesting in deferring. That part was just a hyperbole, I know I’ll match this year somewhere. I just want to be a dramatic baby lol

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Appreciate the level headed-ness, I am not actually interesting in deferring. That part was just a hyperbole, I know I’ll match this year somewhere. I just want to be a dramatic baby lol

No worries. This is truly anxious time for everyone involved. You’ll all get through it, it just stinks that it can’t be normal like every other year.

 

[pepperonipizzas]

DO student here, lower boards, west coast, no geographic ties to anywhere. I do not have a home EM program or any support for 4th year rotations, so they are all away rotations. if I understand this recommendation correctly, we are just limiting official auditions in EM and Sloes to one. But we are good to have multiple away rotations in EM electives at hospitals with no programs, or sub specialty EM rotations like US, TOX, EMS, wilderness, at programs right? Or multiple rotations in related fields like critical care, trauma are okay? Is traveling to several different states look bad? trying to set up regional ties.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

The intent of the rule is to limit travel and aways. If your school has no local rotations in anything, then everything has to be aways I guess. But the goal isn't just to limit you to one EM rotation just for fun. The powers that be don't want students traveling all over the place this year, getting exposed, exposing other healthcare workers, etc. In terms of other rotations, you can certainly do them as stated, but in terms of ED rotations, they are very clear that its recommended to do one, period. Not one at a residency and as many in the community as possible at non-residency sites.

 

[Turducken21]

My school is associated with a pediatric hospital and we have an option for a pediatric emergency medicine rotation. Is this considered a subspecialty like wilderness, tox, US? My advisor said it should be fine but I'm not so sure. Will that look bad if I am also doing an emergency medicine rotation with a residency program and getting a SLOE from them?

 

[boolin_1]

The intent of the rule is to limit travel and aways. If your school has no local rotations in anything, then everything has to be aways I guess. But the goal isn't just to limit you to one EM rotation just for fun. The powers that be don't want students traveling all over the place this year, getting exposed, exposing other healthcare workers, etc. In terms of other rotations, you can certainly do them as stated, but in terms of ED rotations, they are very clear that its recommended to do one, period. Not one at a residency and as many in the community as possible at non-residency sites.

A lot will be cleared up this evening during the EMRA hangout for D.O. and IMG students

 

[Enik]

I'm a re-applicant that soaped because my 2 sloes came in in Nov last season. Both SLOEs are H, I was planning to re-use them applying and not bother with doing an EM rotation during prelim (I'm 95% sure there are excellent). Should I now schedule an early EM rotation and get a SLOE (there's no EM program at my hospital), or just proceed with the original plan? Should I still submit only one SLOE although all of this happened before the pandemic? This process for sure shaved a few years off my life span.

 

[surely]

I'm a re-applicant that soaped because my 2 sloes came in in Nov last season. Both SLOEs are H, I was planning to re-use them applying and not bother with doing an EM rotation during prelim (I'm 95% sure there are excellent). Should I now schedule an early EM rotation and get a SLOE (there's no EM program at my hospital), or just proceed with the original plan? Should I still submit only one SLOE although all of this happened before the pandemic? This process for sure shaved a few years off my life span.

I do recommend an early EM rotation as a prelim, and it's 100% okay for you to use old SLOEs.

 

[lost premed]

@gamerEMdoc I am curious as how you would personally view an applicant that did an away in addition to a home rotation as associate PD. I've heard different opinions, mostly of PDs discouraging students from doing this but also PDs who say that they would not hold it against the student and would likely appreciate having another SLOE...

 

[gamerEMdoc]

My school is associated with a pediatric hospital and we have an option for a pediatric emergency medicine rotation. Is this considered a subspecialty like wilderness, tox, US? My advisor said it should be fine but I'm not so sure. Will that look bad if I am also doing an emergency medicine rotation with a residency program and getting a SLOE from them?

Yes, you can get a subspecialty sloe from peds em

 

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc I am curious as how you would personally view an applicant that did an away in addition to a home rotation as associate PD. I've heard different opinions, mostly of PDs discouraging students from doing this but also PDs who say that they would not hold it against the student and would likely appreciate having another SLOE...

Personally, I'd ask the student about it if I was interviewing them to see if they had a good excuse. If they didn't, I would hold it against them. If I see a student with more than 2 EM rotations, I'm definitely not interviewing them. Anyone with that blatant of disregard for leadership and other students has no business in my program, personally spreaking. I can't speak for other PDs.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I'm a re-applicant that soaped because my 2 sloes came in in Nov last season. Both SLOEs are H, I was planning to re-use them applying and not bother with doing an EM rotation during prelim (I'm 95% sure there are excellent). Should I now schedule an early EM rotation and get a SLOE (there's no EM program at my hospital), or just proceed with the original plan? Should I still submit only one SLOE although all of this happened before the pandemic? This process for sure shaved a few years off my life span.

You can reuse them since they came from last year.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

The thing about the one EM rotation/SLOE is, I don't like the decision either. Students are still going to be doing rotations anyways, so restricting them to one month of EM and no aways doesn't really do much to protect them IMO. This decision hurts my program. But once the decision was made to recommend everyone do that, I don't think its fair to other med students who are abiding by the recommendations from the major players in EM to have some students just completely disregarding the recommendations. That's where I take issue with it. Everyone should be on an even playing field.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

A lot will be cleared up this evening during the EMRA hangout for D.O. and IMG students

Unfortunately, I found that hangout significantly lacking in actual advice. I think next week's hangout with CORD will prove to be more fruitful.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

The thing about the one EM rotation/SLOE is, I don't like the decision either. Students are still going to be doing rotations anyways, so restricting them to one month of EM and no aways doesn't really do much to protect them IMO. This decision hurts my program. But once the decision was made to recommend everyone do that, I don't think its fair to other med students who are abiding by the recommendations from the major players in EM to have some students just completely disregarding the recommendations. That's where I take issue with it. Everyone should be on an even playing field.

Is it gonna be as easy as to simply discard an applicant who did not abide by the rule outside of I guess exceptional circumstances? It just seems like a big red flag for an applicant.

 

[pepperonipizzas]

The thing about the one EM rotation/SLOE is, I don't like the decision either. Students are still going to be doing rotations anyways, so restricting them to one month of EM and no aways doesn't really do much to protect them IMO. This decision hurts my program. But once the decision was made to recommend everyone do that, I don't think its fair to other med students who are abiding by the recommendations from the major players in EM to have some students just completely disregarding the recommendations. That's where I take issue with it. Everyone should be on an even playing field.

This comment cleared a lot up for me. It does not make sense to me that I should only do one EM rotation even if I have several local community options for more EM rotations but its okay to be in the ICU, trauma, IM. But talking about an even playing field, it makes sense now. thanks you

I wish all those organizations would come out with a joint statement against the PE. Thousands of students flying in to a single location from all 50 states, flying, hotels, taxis, 12 patient interactions. Would love if they followed the NBME's footsteps and canceled the PE for this year