Email Mistake

[MrFlyGuy]

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Wow I feel dumb,

I emailed one of my interviewers in a thank you email and called her Ms. instead of Dr..obviously a bad move but I can't take the email back. Should I email with an apology and a quick correction or just let sleeping beasts lie?

 

[Sushirolls]

Let it lie. Move on.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Learn from it and don't let it happen again, though.

Women docs have enough trouble with pay gaps, patients calling them nurses or "sweetie", senior attendings treating them like admin staff, and other such swipes at their professional accomplishments and identity that they really don't need more of it from students and residents. (Some stories on med twitter are just f-ing horrifying.)

 

[Merovinge]

Learn from it and don't let it happen again, though.

Women docs have enough trouble with pay gaps, patients calling them nurses or "sweetie", senior attendings treating them like admin staff, and other such swipes at their professional accomplishments and identity that they really don't need more of it from students and residents. (Some stories on med twitter are just f-ing horrifying.)

This could not be more true. It happens on such a daily basis to my BAMF significant other, I think she is much more numb to it then I am when I hear the stories.

 

[WisNeuro]

This could not be more true. It happens on such a daily basis to my BAMF significant other, I think she is much more numb to it then I am when I hear the stories.

Almost every time my physician spouse says she works for "XX healthcare system at XX clinic" almost unanimously the next thing people say is something to the effect of "oh, you're a nurse?" or "how do you like being a nurse?" In addition to many patients, usually older, who will call her by her first name, but call the male physicians at the clinic by Dr.

 

[Merely]

This could not be more true. It happens on such a daily basis to my BAMF significant other, I think she is much more numb to it then I am when I hear the stories.

whats bamf stand for

 

[WisNeuro]

whats bamf stand for

Usually "Bad A$$ Mother F*&^cker"

 

[Ironspy]

Almost every time my physician spouse says she works for "XX healthcare system at XX clinic" almost unanimously the next thing people say is something to the effect of "oh, you're a nurse?" or "how do you like being a nurse?" In addition to many patients, usually older, who will call her by her first name, but call the male physicians at the clinic by Dr.

I wasn’t going to say anything and OPD said it very well but want to clarify.

Even when I’m wearing a badge that says doctor, a white coat and am explicit and say “I’m dr x, your psychiatrist, I’m the most doctorly doctor that ever doctored” I often finish talking and get called Ms, asked if I’m the social worker and when the doctor will see them.

OP, it sucks that you made this mistake and not much can be done about it now. Just be aware that a lot of female MDs, particularly racial minorities, deal with this constantly and it’s exhausting. Be particularly mindful bc this happens much less to my male colleagues and contributes to inequity in the workplace.

 

[Merovinge]

I wasn’t going to say anything and OPD said it very well but want to clarify.

Even when I’m wearing a badge that says doctor, a white coat and am explicit and say “I’m dr x, your psychiatrist, I’m the most doctorly doctor that ever doctored” I often finish talking and get called Ms, asked if I’m the social worker and when the doctor will see them.

OP, it sucks that you made this mistake and not much can be done about it now. Just be aware that a lot of female MDs, particularly racial minorities, deal with this constantly and it’s exhausting. Be particularly mindful bc this happens much less to my male colleagues and contributes to inequity in the workplace.

I'm a very averagely built guy and have been mistaken as a nurse/social worker a sum total of 0 times between medical school, residency, fellowship, and attending life. My wife is well into the hundreds, still happening as an attending, even by other attendings. Less is a very kind way to put it.

 

[Bartelby]

I would consider shooting off a quick email to the effect of "My apologies, I noticed my email addressed you as Ms. X. It was a pleasure meeting you Dr. X!" The Ms. will be noticed and there is no clear right answer, but I think a brief self-aware correction may be preferable to leaving it unaddressed.

 

[deleted736562]

I would consider shooting off a quick email to the effect of "My apologies, I noticed my email addressed you as Ms. X. It was a pleasure meeting you Dr. X!" The Ms. will be noticed and there is no clear right answer, but I think a brief self-aware correction may be preferable to leaving it unaddressed.

These are my thoughts as well. Hard to fault you if you apologize. (though it will leave an after taste regardless...)

 

[pediatric_psydoc]

I would agree with the others who suggested you write a brief follow-up and apologize. She will have noticed it and you taking note and apologizing will look better than you not taking note of your mistake, in my opinion.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I would consider shooting off a quick email to the effect of "My apologies, I noticed my email addressed you as Ms. X. It was a pleasure meeting you Dr. X!" The Ms. will be noticed and there is no clear right answer, but I think a brief self-aware correction may be preferable to leaving it unaddressed.

This. Using Ms to address a physician in a professional setting is a triggering event. Not recognizing it is enough to get someone pushed far down a rank list.

 

[birchswing]

I have to write a congratulatory card to a couple recently married. The wife is a medical doctor; the husband does not have a titled degree. In the South where I live, people would traditionally write Mr. and Mrs. Dean Smith (the husband's name). What would you put when the wife is a doctor? It seems strange to put Dr. and Mr. Dean Smith when the husband isn't a doctor. I could put Dr. and Mr. Samantha Smith, which would go against the tradition of using the husband's name. Or just Dr. and Mr. Smith, I suppose?

 

[WisNeuro]

I have to write a congratulatory card to a couple recently married. The wife is a medical doctor; the husband does not have a titled degree. In the South where I live, people would traditionally write Mr. and Mrs. Dean Smith (the husband's name). What would you put when the wife is a doctor? It seems strange to put Dr. and Mr. Dean Smith when the husband isn't a doctor. I could put Dr. and Mr. Samantha Smith, which would go against the tradition of using the husband's name. Or just Dr. and Mr. Smith, I suppose?

It's 2019, and this isn't a professional situation. Just first and last names is fine. We're both Dr's and got a mix of just first names and some "Drs XXXXX" in our cards. Neither of us cares if people use Dr outside of a professional context. In your case, I'd go with just their names. If Emily Post has a problem with it, she can go **** herself back to the 1950s.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I have to write a congratulatory card to a couple recently married. The wife is a medical doctor; the husband does not have a titled degree. In the South where I live, people would traditionally write Mr. and Mrs. Dean Smith (the husband's name). What would you put when the wife is a doctor? It seems strange to put Dr. and Mr. Dean Smith when the husband isn't a doctor. I could put Dr. and Mr. Samantha Smith, which would go against the tradition of using the husband's name. Or just Dr. and Mr. Smith, I suppose?

Fairly sure this should be Mr. and Dr. Smith

 

[Old&InTheWay]

I would consider shooting off a quick email to the effect of "My apologies, I noticed my email addressed you as Ms. X. It was a pleasure meeting you Dr. X!" The Ms. will be noticed and there is no clear right answer, but I think a brief self-aware correction may be preferable to leaving it unaddressed.

You could even take a chance and note that your mistake was possibly rooted in unconscious bias. I would look favorably on anyone admitting their blind spots.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

This. Using Ms to address a physician in a professional setting is a triggering event. Not recognizing it is enough to get someone pushed far down a rank list.

And recognizing it may move you up--(No guarantees)--at least in the esteem of that one person. It is nice to know that a potential resident has the self awareness to recognize, admit, and learn from mistakes.

Early in my PD life I made an offhand, complimentary comment about a resident's appearance. A female superior pulled me aside and called me on it with the admonishment that it had actually diminished that doctor's academic accomplishments, reducing her to a "pretty face". I recently had opportunity to thank that superior for doing that at that time--and she thanked me for being willing to take that unsolicited corrective feedback and appreciated that I was still taking it to heart.

 

[Merovinge]

And recognizing it may move you up--(No guarantees)--at least in the esteem of that one person. It is nice to know that a potential resident has the self awareness to recognize, admit, and learn from mistakes.

Early in my PD life I made an offhand, complimentary comment about a resident's appearance. A female superior pulled me aside and called me on it with the admonishment that it had actually diminished that doctor's academic accomplishments, reducing her to a "pretty face". I recently had opportunity to thank that superior for doing that at that time--and she thanked me for being willing to take that unsolicited corrective feedback and appreciated that I was still taking it to heart.

It's the same thing in therapy. I see "strength's based" assessments that allude to good looks which I hear from patients basically sounds like "you're depressed even though you're hot!?"

 

[Merely]

And recognizing it may move you up--(No guarantees)--at least in the esteem of that one person. It is nice to know that a potential resident has the self awareness to recognize, admit, and learn from mistakes.

Early in my PD life I made an offhand, complimentary comment about a resident's appearance. A female superior pulled me aside and called me on it with the admonishment that it had actually diminished that doctor's academic accomplishments, reducing her to a "pretty face". I recently had opportunity to thank that superior for doing that at that time--and she thanked me for being willing to take that unsolicited corrective feedback and appreciated that I was still taking it to heart.

So you said a resident was hot and then someone was upset that that meant you were reducing the residents identity down to her hotness? Also how could you have a female superior as a PD? Who even would your superior be?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

So you said a resident was hot and then someone was upset that that meant you were reducing the residents identity down to her hotness? Also how could you have a female superior as a PD? Who even would your superior be?

Really? You think PDs are absolute monarchs of their domains? I'm accountable officially to department chairs, VPs, and directors of GME.
More importantly, I'm accountable unofficially to treat all of my peers with respect.
And just to make clear, the remark was made in a formal presentation in front of our GME committee--so it wasn't just a private aside. She was absolutely right to call me out, for all the reasons I refer to above.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

PDs are often not at the top of the food chain. Many PDs are relatively junior faculty. The average life span of a PD is 3 years, but the truth is that you do it for one or two years, or you do it for 30. It either fits you or it doesn't.

 

[Merely]

Really? You think PDs are absolute monarchs of their domains? I'm accountable officially to department chairs, VPs, and directors of GME.
More importantly, I'm accountable unofficially to treat all of my peers with respect.
And just to make clear, the remark was made in a formal presentation in front of our GME committee--so it wasn't just a private aside. She was absolutely right to call me out, for all the reasons I refer to above.

oh ok I understand

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Good commentary on the issue: Medical Education In The #MeToo Era: 'No Option But To Stay Silent'?

 

[downwithDTB]

Good commentary on the issue: Medical Education In The #MeToo Era: 'No Option But To Stay Silent'?

It's an interesting and thoughtful article, but entirely misses the huge picture that commenting on someone else's appearance, particularly in a work context is never appropriate!!! I'm sure that student has so many amazing qualities that are worth complementing that reflect her merit that chosing to focus on appearance diminishes her accomplishment and devalues less attractive peers and those who focus their time, energy and effort on other areas of their life.

I have noticed that I no longer feel comfortable hugging my peers or superiors, while many female superiors and peers will hug me without a thought. This has turned what was once an intimate and important gesture of compassion, respect and humanity into something awkward and uncomfortable. I don't think that we can replace this in any way, and it's somewhat devastating to an organism that craves closeness and touch, particularly in times of hardship. How can medicine survive if we can't be offered or ask for a hug when we lose a patient?

Importantly, how can we have equality when half of medicine fears the other half (or both halves fear the other half)? We need leaders who can say, "it's never ok to comment on anyone's appearance" AND "you're being promoted and you told me offering you a hug made you uncomfortable." We also need leaders who can figure out evaluation systems that both allow honest and meaningful criticism while accounting for the implicit biases of those providing feedback.

 

[Old&InTheWay]

It's an interesting and thoughtful article, but entirely misses the huge picture that commenting on someone else's appearance, particularly in a work context is never appropriate!!!

I don't agree with the "never" part. Telling someone you like their hair, or shoes or sweater is not in and of itself inappropriate. Complimenting people is one of the ways we connect. We compliment people on their behavior, their ideas, their possessions, and the ways in which they present themselves to the world.

While it is safer to have a rigid set of internal rules governing what is "appropriate" and "professional," there are costs of adopting approaches to living that eliminate all risk. Living in a way in which you never make mistakes, never make anyone uncomfortable and therefore never have to face people whom you have inadvertently offended does not allow for optimal growth as a person.

The whole point of the article is that it's the new normal for men to feel afraid in the current climate to attempt to connect with colleagues who are women; but that perhaps some bravery in the face of fear is in necessary and important in order to maintain a culture in medicine in which we are able to bond over our collective experience.

 

[downwithDTB]

I don't agree with the "never" part. Telling someone you like their hair, or shoes or sweater is not in and of itself inappropriate. Complimenting people is one of the ways we connect. We compliment people on their behavior, their ideas, their possessions, and the ways in which they present themselves to the world.

While it is safer to have a rigid set of internal rules governing what is "appropriate" and "professional," there are costs of adopting approaches to living that eliminate all risk. Living in a way in which you never make mistakes, never make anyone uncomfortable and therefore never have to face people whom you have inadvertently offended does not allow for optimal growth as a person.

The whole point of the article is that it's the new normal for men to feel afraid in the current climate to attempt to connect with colleagues who are women; but that perhaps some bravery in the face of fear is in necessary and important in order to maintain a culture in medicine in which we are able to bond over our collective experience.

Commenting on fashion can be ok (cool shoes, I like your haircut) in select circumstances. I more meant physical appearance the way the article used, I can't think of a scenario where this actually builds someone up (you look beautiful, have you lost weight, you're looking buff, you look so handsome/beautiful all dressed up). This stuff just perpetuates body image pressure and places value on the wrong areas, especially true for young women. Why would you ever want to comment on someone's appearance (outside of a compliment to a partner or a baby)?

Imagine if the author had said, "you were amazing today, we are so proud of the effort you've put in to become such a compassionate physician or creative thinker" instead of identifying the young, accomplished women's looks as her major accomplishment. The same point would have been made after the female mentor had hugged her and the male had to pass.

I'm all for everything else that you said but we can do better than pointing out our colleagues attractiveness for those who happen to be attractive and focus more on effort/compassion based compliments.

Do you want your supervisor commenting on your beauty? If you're not very attractive, would you want them commenting on your colleagues beauty in front of you?