Embarrassed and ashamed

[Jonathan13180]

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To all my fellow peers, I am in need of your advise.

I have failed step 2 comlex (written) for a 3rd time, once again within 10points. I am not only disgusted, embarrassed and depressed, but at this point I am lost as to why this is happening, and more importantly, how to study again?

First, off, I feel its necessary to give some background: I am a 4th year applying for a competitive field, I am in the top 10% of my class, and have been told by many programs that if it werent for my scores, they would rank me "very highly"...I say all of this NOT to boast, but more so to give everyone some sense of the type of student I am. At this point, I just want to graduate.

I take nothing for granted and have, from the outset, treated this test as an Important test, and not as one people blow off.

I have studied diligently all 3 times. I have read Secrets more times than I can count, I have read Crush front to back adding in notes from FA. I have read most of Savarese (OMM) and have done BOTH combank and comquest on two separate occasions doing each qbank at least twice through. When I do the qbank, I read the questions, and then go through ALL the answers and take notes (avg 80% on both qbanks).

I have read some of Boards and Wards, but havent found it helpful.

SO, at this point, of all the things I am worried about, I need your advise on HOW to approach this upcoming test. I am thinking U-world?

I appreciate all and any advise.

 

[goGASorBUST]

Hey John,

I am sorry to hear about you trouble. I had a friend who had similar problems (he is now a doc). I don't have any great advice as far as studying BUT in the end you know you will pass this exam and then you will be a doctor, as all of us will, how awesome is that? He who laughs last... right? Best of luck man!

 

[alias5]

Hi John,

I also failed the COMLEX CE three times and currently am dismissed from my university. I appealed but it was denied. I have no idea what to do. I spent 4 years and $200K ! It's unfair that a university can kick a student out b/c they were not able to pass an exam in three tries when the AOA doesn't limit the number of attempts. Also the class before mine didn't have this 3 attempt rule, furthermore this rule did not exist when I first started at my university it was added in my third year.

I think it's wrong for any school to restrict the number of attempts. If you look at other disciplines like law school, their graduation from the university is not contingent upon them passing the Bar exam, if you look at our counterparts many MD schools don't even require taking USMLE step II to graduate, and if you look at other DO schools not all of them require students to pass in 3 attempts.

A test does not measure your ability as a doctor or determine your level of knowledge. Going through 4 years of education, 2 yrs of clinical rotation, reading various books, studying and doing well on other exams, getting good evaluations from rotations, getting into a residency, knowing medicine and how to apply it in real life situations proves our ability. Although the COMLEX is said to test clinical knowledge it seems like more of an aptitude test where people who are good test takers can do well/ pass with minimal studying. The COMLEX will have questions about how to calculate odds ratio, medical questions in latin, certain ACTS/ laws I've never heard of, which way a child should be seated in car a seat, what's the tx for a certain spider bite, how much ca does a 51 yr old man need to take, etc. at least this is from my experience in the 3 attempts I have taken. These questions don't seem hard but they're not the type of questions I would expect on a medical exam. When I see vague questions in the COMLEX like this I feel totally at loss and upset that I spent months studying and preparing for an exam.

I don't think one test should end my career. I think schools should work on helping students prepare for this type of exam and not dismiss them when they are having difficulty. A student has spent 4 years at an institution and dedicated their life to medicine, to throw them to the curb just does not seem right!

John, if you don't mind me asking what university do you go to? I'm asking b/c it seems your school doesn't have the 3 attempts rule [lucky you].

To all my fellow peers, I am in need of your advise.

I have failed step 2 comlex (written) for a 3rd time, once again within 10points. I am not only disgusted, embarrassed and depressed, but at this point I am lost as to why this is happening, and more importantly, how to study again?

First, off, I feel its necessary to give some background: I am a 4th year applying for a competitive field, I am in the top 10% of my class, and have been told by many programs that if it werent for my scores, they would rank me "very highly"...I say all of this NOT to boast, but more so to give everyone some sense of the type of student I am. At this point, I just want to graduate.

I take nothing for granted and have, from the outset, treated this test as an Important test, and not as one people blow off.

I have studied diligently all 3 times. I have read Secrets more times than I can count, I have read Crush front to back adding in notes from FA. I have read most of Savarese (OMM) and have done BOTH combank and comquest on two separate occasions doing each qbank at least twice through. When I do the qbank, I read the questions, and then go through ALL the answers and take notes (avg 80% on both qbanks).

I have read some of Boards and Wards, but havent found it helpful.

SO, at this point, of all the things I am worried about, I need your advise on HOW to approach this upcoming test. I am thinking U-world?

I appreciate all and any advise.

 

[ShyRem]

There are states you can NOT get a license to practice medicine in if you take 3 or more tries to pass an individual step of the boards.

 

[alias5]

John,

Thought you should also know this:

"Since the most recent establishment of the pass/fail standards for the computer-based COMLEX (all levels included) in 2005, the average pass rates for first-time examinees taking the COMLEX Level 2 CE were between 92-94 percent. Changes to the standard settings in March of 2009 have resulted in a lowered pass rate of 84 percent thus far. Therefore, many students having lower scores, or possibly even failing scores, may have passed with increased 3-digit scores in previous years. It is difficult to compare the Level 2 CE scores of 2009 to those of recent years, and prospective residency programs should be informed of this since the passage rate is so much lower."

That's unbelievable.....A drop from 94% to 84% !
Maybe they should think about changing things back?

this info was found at :
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=694649

To all my fellow peers, I am in need of your advise.

I have failed step 2 comlex (written) for a 3rd time, once again within 10points. I am not only disgusted, embarrassed and depressed, but at this point I am lost as to why this is happening, and more importantly, how to study again?

First, off, I feel its necessary to give some background: I am a 4th year applying for a competitive field, I am in the top 10% of my class, and have been told by many programs that if it werent for my scores, they would rank me "very highly"...I say all of this NOT to boast, but more so to give everyone some sense of the type of student I am. At this point, I just want to graduate.

I take nothing for granted and have, from the outset, treated this test as an Important test, and not as one people blow off.

I have studied diligently all 3 times. I have read Secrets more times than I can count, I have read Crush front to back adding in notes from FA. I have read most of Savarese (OMM) and have done BOTH combank and comquest on two separate occasions doing each qbank at least twice through. When I do the qbank, I read the questions, and then go through ALL the answers and take notes (avg 80% on both qbanks).

I have read some of Boards and Wards, but havent found it helpful.

SO, at this point, of all the things I am worried about, I need your advise on HOW to approach this upcoming test. I am thinking U-world?

I appreciate all and any advise.

 

[december07]

John,

Thought you should also know this:

"Since the most recent establishment of the pass/fail standards for the computer-based COMLEX (all levels included) in 2005, the average pass rates for first-time examinees taking the COMLEX Level 2 CE were between 92-94 percent. Changes to the standard settings in March of 2009 have resulted in a lowered pass rate of 84 percent thus far. Therefore, many students having lower scores, or possibly even failing scores, may have passed with increased 3-digit scores in previous years. It is difficult to compare the Level 2 CE scores of 2009 to those of recent years, and prospective residency programs should be informed of this since the passage rate is so much lower."

That's unbelievable.....A drop from 94% to 84% !
Maybe they should think about changing things back?

this info was found at :
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=694649

The damage is done tho. Match date is next week. Several of my friends who had high hope for more competitive residencies got crushed 🙁 A few even took prematch MD spots (not as competitive places) just because they are out of the race for the competitive DO spots.

 

[Jonathan13180]

The damage is done tho. Match date is next week. Several of my friends who had high hope for more competitive residencies got crushed 🙁 A few even took prematch MD spots (not as competitive places) just because they are out of the race for the competitive DO spots.

Yep. I agree-as I am one of those who will probably not match, and to be honest, am not willing to "settle" for a less competitive spot just so that I can match-this is the REST of my life and am not willing to simply throw all of that away.

While the link posted by Alias is true-IT WILL CHANGE NOTHING. I think people who have done poorly want to blame the nbome, and while they are responsible, nothing will change the current status of those who have performed badly. It sucks, it sucks, and it really sucks. However, the bigger issue is how many people (at least that I know of) are pulling out of the DO match and going MD-not simply because of their lesser step 2 scores, but in part because of them. ITs tough to be a fan of the Nbome and AOA when they dont seem to help us.

 

[peppy]

However, the bigger issue is how many people (at least that I know of) are pulling out of the DO match and going MD-not simply because of their lesser step 2 scores, but in part because of them. ITs tough to be a fan of the Nbome and AOA when they dont seem to help us.

While I can understand some people being frustrated at the AOA, I really don't think that avoiding the DO match is a good strategy at all unless (like you) people are okay with the idea that they may not match at all.
If anyone is going to be understanding about the issues with the COMLEX this year, it would be the DO residencies. A lot of people involved in MD residencies barely know what the COMLEX is. I wouldn't count on them to be understanding about a failure, especially since this kind of issue hasn't come up with the USMLE and there are many IMG applicants in the MD match who have superstar USMLE scores.
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that both DO residencies and MD residencies will get you to where you want to be in the end. Don't let the frustration and disappointment of this setback cause you to cut off your nose to spit your face by boycotting the DO match when it is most likely your best chance to become the doc you want to be.
I do wish you all the best in getting past this setback!

 

[badgerred]

While I can understand some people being frustrated at the AOA, I really don't think that avoiding the DO match is a good strategy at all unless (like you) people are okay with the idea that they may not match at all.
If anyone is going to be understanding about the issues with the COMLEX this year, it would be the DO residencies. A lot of people involved in MD residencies barely know what the COMLEX is. I wouldn't count on them to be understanding about a failure, especially since this kind of issue hasn't come up with the USMLE and there are many IMG applicants in the MD match who have superstar USMLE scores.
The bottom line, in my opinion, is that both DO residencies and MD residencies will get you to where you want to be in the end. Don't let the frustration and disappointment of this setback cause you to cut off your nose to spit your face by boycotting the DO match when it is most likely your best chance to become the doc you want to be.
I do wish you all the best in getting past this setback!

I agree with the above advice. Your best shot is through the DO residency route. The Allopathic world is not forgiving of failed COMLEX scores. They just assume its an easier or equivalent test of the USMLE and will not be forgiving. Even scrambling into a community M.D. internal medicine, pediatrics or psychiatry program will be difficult with multiple COMLEX 2 failures because they receive several applications from IMG's with killer board scores. In my experience, allopathic programs seem to place more importance on test scores and screen people on test scores than DO programs so it would seem harder to match into an MD program than a DO given your situation. Furthermore, the best DO applicants usually avoid Osteopathic residencies so they will have less competition in general. If you have any hope of doing something competitive, your only option is the DO route. If I were you, I would try to scramble into a DO residency immediately following the DO match. I would pull out of the MD match. If you wait until after the MD match, you will be competing with competitive DO applicants who didn't match into a competitive MD residency and will try to grab a last minute competitive DO residency. I knew some DO students last year that tried to get radiology, anesthesiology or competitive surgical subspecialty in the MD world. They had killer scores and grades but didn't match. Those guys then tried to grab whatever competitive DO residencies were available like DO radiology etc. You don't want to compete with them.

And to be honest, most programs DO or MD will not be very understanding unless you have taken and excelled on the USMLE Step 2. Have you take USMLE Step 2? If so, how did you score on it? If you've excelled on the USMLE Step 2 then you can argue it was a style/testing issue rather than a knowledge issue.

 

[centroles]

Have you considered just taking the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK and CS and not even releasing your COMLEX scores/attempts when applying for residency?

Otherwise, I could see three failures on the COMLEX being a black mark on your record which otherwise seems very strong.

 

[Jonathan13180]

Have you considered just taking the USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK and CS and not even releasing your COMLEX scores/attempts when applying for residency?

Otherwise, I could see three failures on the COMLEX being a black mark on your record which otherwise seems very strong.

Thanks for your suggestion-

I have considered it and might do it next year, then reapply using those scores. Admittedly, given my test-taking history, I am not sure how'd I fare on that beast.

 

[badgerred]

One failed COMLEX score is a black mark let alone two failed COMLEX scores. USMLE Step 2 is harder than COMLEX 2. If someone is struggling to pass COMLEX 2, I wouldn't advise them to take the USMLE Step 2. USMLE Step 2 has longer and more difficult questions. After taking USMLE Step 2, I thought COMLEX was a breeze. I think USMLE was a better written and more fair exam but it was definitely more challenging.

 

[1stGenrationDoc]

Hello Jonathan and others who failed Step II CBT Exam (within 10 points). I too am amid you and just recently took the exam (again). The first time I took it, I scored a 398 (74) and was devastated when I failed. After reading several threads and posts, I've come to realize that the NBOME did in fact change their scoring system this year, as confirmed by several SCHOOLS (not just students), and even COMBANK made a post after contacting the NBOME.

I guess I just find it interesting that the NBOME is allowed to change their scoring system without making a formal notification. Furthermore, even after schools and other organizations have contacted them, why do they choose to still not make an announcement? Do they know they were wrong? Has someone already started legal action?

It does seem quite suspicious, doesn't it? Could their motive be for financial gain since the more people that fail, the more people that need to retake it? I clearly would have passed (literally being within a question or 2 of passing) if the scoring would have remained the same, but instead I was forced to purchase more studying supplies, questions banks (x2) and give up time with my family trying to pass it again (Not to mention coughing up another $500 for the exam itself). I am very lucky to have a good support system, but I even feel emotional distress from this as it seems so up in the air whether you pass or not...

I do not know if I passed it. After taking the Step 2 the first time, I felt like I aced it...I never felt better after taking a board exam (I even bragged at my residency interviews about it only to have to call them later and tell them I failed)! Now after taking it yet again...I just don't know. If I do not pass the exam for a 3rd time, I (like alias5), will be dismissed from my school and $200K will be out the window! This will likely turn into a long drawn out legal battle, but I obviously would be helping out many others (not just myself); besides...it already will have cost me $200K so it'll be worth it in the long run!

 

[DD214_DOC]

Hello Jonathan and others who failed Step II CBT Exam (within 10 points). I too am amid you and just recently took the exam (again). The first time I took it, I scored a 398 (74) and was devastated when I failed. After reading several threads and posts, I've come to realize that the NBOME did in fact change their scoring system this year, as confirmed by several SCHOOLS (not just students), and even COMBANK made a post after contacting the NBOME.

I guess I just find it interesting that the NBOME is allowed to change their scoring system without making a formal notification. Furthermore, even after schools and other organizations have contacted them, why do they choose to still not make an announcement? Do they know they were wrong? Has someone already started legal action?

It does seem quite suspicious, doesn't it? Could their motive be for financial gain since the more people that fail, the more people that need to retake it? I clearly would have passed (literally being within a question or 2 of passing) if the scoring would have remained the same, but instead I was forced to purchase more studying supplies, questions banks (x2) and give up time with my family trying to pass it again (Not to mention coughing up another $500 for the exam itself). I am very lucky to have a good support system, but I even feel emotional distress from this as it seems so up in the air whether you pass or not...

I do not know if I passed it. After taking the Step 2 the first time, I felt like I aced it...I never felt better after taking a board exam (I even bragged at my residency interviews about it only to have to call them later and tell them I failed)! Now after taking it yet again...I just don't know. If I do not pass the exam for a 3rd time, I (like alias5), will be dismissed from my school and $200K will be out the window! This will likely turn into a long drawn out legal battle, but I obviously would be helping out many others (not just myself); besides...it already will have cost me $200K so it'll be worth it in the long run!

They did make a formal notification.

http://www.nbome.org/news-single.asp?blogid=85

 

[jakstat]

well I'm in the same boat with my 3rd attempt. However I hear of schools that will take you until you pass.