"Embellishing" Patient interaction in PS?

[DendWrite]

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Is it wrong to sort of combine multiple patients into one patient when talking in your P.S. about how you interacted with these patients and they really touched your lives and made you realize how much you loved helping people and that you had all of this care and compassion bottled up inside you and the only way to let it out is to become a doctor and work for free for the rest of your life? Thanks to HIPPA, there's no way an ADCOM could find out that you did this, or even made up some patient interaction entirely, so long as you legitimately volunteered somewhere where this interaction might have occurred. So, don't most people make something up / WAY overemphasize some event that seemed "pivotal?"

 

[Trexate]

In other words.. "Is it okay to lie?"

<sarcasm>
Sure. Just don't get caught.
</sarcasm>

 

[TopSecret]

👎

Fraudulent behavior is frowned upon.

 

[Isoprop]

Is it wrong to sort of combine multiple patients into one patient when talking in your P.S. about how you interacted with these patients and they really touched your lives and made you realize how much you loved helping people and that you had all of this care and compassion bottled up inside you and the only way to let it out is to become a doctor and work for free for the rest of your life? Thanks to HIPPA, there's no way an ADCOM could find out that you did this, or even made up some patient interaction entirely, so long as you legitimately volunteered somewhere where this interaction might have occurred. So, don't most people make something up / WAY overemphasize some event that seemed "pivotal?"

As long as you use commas and periods in your personal statement...

 

[TopSecret]

Do people not have any integrity anymore?

 

[Isoprop]

Also, I'm sure people have exaggerated on their personal statement. I think this is fine. I mean, the purpose of the personal statement is to sell yourself, right?

But I think that adcoms, people who read thousands of personal statements, can easily tell if an applicant is bulls***ing on his or her essay.

It's not hard to sound sincere on a good personal statement even with a mediocre interest in medicine.

 

[He2]

i'd probably worry more about the whole: I had all this care bottled up inside me strategy. Can you go with something....more pragmatic?

 

[DendWrite]

I'm interested in medicine, I'm just finding it hard to generate the typical P.S. stuff that it seems is the norm. As far as integrity and fraudulent behavior go, I would not consider this to be fraudulent at all. Of course I've had patient interaction and done the typical pre-med stuff. But I know a lot of friends who have joked about how they are putting more stuff on there than actually happened. I assumed it was a pretty common thing and thought I'd ask. I'm not saying making stuff up completely. It's a game, and things like this happen.

 

[Isoprop]

You don't need to have some eureka moment in your ECs to make a good P.S. And you don't need to make your P.S. sound like everyone else's. It's called a PERSONAL statement for a reason.

 

[JediZero]

Is it wrong to sort of combine multiple patients into one patient when talking in your P.S. about how you interacted with these patients and they really touched your lives and made you realize how much you loved helping people and that you had all of this care and compassion bottled up inside you and the only way to let it out is to become a doctor and work for free for the rest of your life? Thanks to HIPPA, there's no way an ADCOM could find out that you did this, or even made up some patient interaction entirely, so long as you legitimately volunteered somewhere where this interaction might have occurred. So, don't most people make something up / WAY overemphasize some event that seemed "pivotal?"

As for 'combining multiple patients', you could always write about an individual patient in a way that makes it clear that he/she is a metaphorical representation of all the patients you have worked with. It would at least make for an interesting read.

As for exaggerating its 'pivotal' nature in your decision to enter medicine, don't. As previously mentioned, adcoms have very sensitive bull**** detectors. Be honest about your reasons for going into medicine. And please, don't say that

you interacted with these patients and they really touched your lives and made you realize how much you loved helping people and that you had all of this care and compassion bottled up inside you and the only way to let it out is to become a doctor and work for free for the rest of your life?

...because that will send you straight to the rejection pile.

 

[dingyibvs]

Lol, BS detectors...yea friggin right. If you wanna lie about it, go ahead, there's no way they'd find out. Just make it sound realistic. The truth is that each school receives thousands of applications, so even if everybody is entirely honest, there will be many applications that sound like BS but are entirely true. As long as you can back it up in interviews, it won't hurt.

 

[apumic]

Talking about any one pt in your PS as though he/she really exists could begin to look like a HIPAA infraction. I'd much prefer to make it evident the kinds of px I've worked w/. Sure, there may be those examples of px that really change your mind abt the profession but there should be a number of them, not just one or two, so mention them in the plural.

 

[armybound]

Admissions is a game. Make it whatever you have to make it to get in.

 

[45408]

Do you think that the people reviewing your application are idiots? They're either med students, physicians or scientists. If you're making stuff up and sounding melodramatic, they're probably going to pick up on it.

I don't think it's wrong to use a little literary license to make a story sound good in one paragraph, but you're probably assuming that you need to have a cute story much more than the adcom actually expects you to. That story about you performing CPR on a squirrel when you were in 3rd grade? Skip it.

I wrote a no-frills PS for my residency application, and I didn't even have to lie, exaggerate or embellish anything. Just write why you want to be a doctor, and include something that shows how you're qualified.

Your grandma was sick? Same for 10,000 other applicants.
You went to the hospital once?
The doctor was kind and caring?
The human body is fascinating?
You carried a cup of water and warm blanket to a patient in the ER?
You'd like to volunteer with Doctors without Borders?

Same for 10,000 other applicants. Just write the real deal.

 

[TopSecret]

Read NavyFP's advice on how to write a PS. It's in this thread.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=187188&page=44

 

[45408]

I'll just post it here:

1- about 25%
2- about 5-10% (and its not just EMTs, but they are the most common)
3- about 60%



Yes, the nausea and laughs are the extremes.



It is not so much the unoriginality as the embellishment.
"I watched him/her wince as they placed the IV while he/she was lying there helplessly......"
They often read like a dime store novel.

Typically 3 people will review a record. I can't say I have allowed a personal statement to have swayed me significantly either way. I would not say a bad personal statement automatically gets shoved to the NO pile.



I am looking for a bit of pragmatism with some passion. Being a physician is a complex blend of book smarts, street smarts, drive, and compassion. Most of that can be gleened by what you have done (jobs, volunteer work, hobbies) and your education (GPA, MCATs). The PS can fill in some of the gaps that are not in the rest of the application.



If I were to write a PS now it would be framed like this:

I have had an interest in the health system for however long (but not tooo long or it was solidified at a certain time). I truly became exposed to the system at x event. I watched the team and felt my personal characteristics best fit in the role of a physician. I believe physicians should be this and that, and I demonstrate those attributes in this way. My goals as a physician are x (but don't say you want to cure cancer), but I recognize that as I progress through training (ie med school) I may find an even more suitable area for my talents.
The keys are not to put too many adjectives. It can have some emotion, but it should not be dripping with it. We all had to suffer with creative writing in college and it often shows in the PS. I believe many of the stories have been impacted by those classes. Keep it real and short. If you have a quality or talent that makes you unique and could somehow be related to medicine, express that.

Most applicants are generally smart and good at science. These are not going to set you apart. It is hard to remember what I had in mine, but I think I talked about how learning customer service at a fast food restaurant would apply to the practice of medicine. I doubt anyone else would have made that analogy.

Brevity is preferable. Remember, ADCOM members have to read these. How much of their time do you want them to spend on this one section of your application. Don't make it War and Peace.

These are my opinions. I am not a touchy/feely guy. Most on ADCOMs are not either. Are you willing to try to play to the few that are?

My favorite part is this

It is not so much the unoriginality as the embellishment.
"I watched him/her wince as they placed the IV while he/she was lying there helplessly......"
They often read like a dime store novel.

I used to read PSs for SDNers (DON'T KEEP SENDING THEM TO ME, I DELETE THEM), and I saw that so many times

 

[JediZero]

Lol, BS detectors...yea friggin right. If you wanna lie about it, go ahead, there's no way they'd find out. Just make it sound realistic. The truth is that each school receives thousands of applications, so even if everybody is entirely honest, there will be many applications that sound like BS but are entirely true. As long as you can back it up in interviews, it won't hurt.

I'm not suggesting that it's impossible to lie to them. In fact, I'm sure you could easily do so about many factual things without getting caught. I'm talking about sincerity, which is much more difficult to fake.

Prowler hit it on the head. These guys are scientists and med students and doctors. They're at least as smart as you are. Give them some credit.

 

[dingyibvs]

I'm not suggesting that it's impossible to lie to them. In fact, I'm sure you could easily do so about many factual things without getting caught. I'm talking about sincerity, which is much more difficult to fake.

Prowler hit it on the head. These guys are scientists and med students and doctors. They're at least as smart as you are. Give them some credit.

I don't care how smart you are, you could be Dr. Manhattan and you'll have a tough time telling BS from sincerity when applicants' characters, writing skills, and just about everything else differ so much. Sincerity might be difficult to fake in person, but it certainly isn't hard on paper. Heck, I REALLY do enjoy helping people, but I can't really emphasize that on my essay because I know everybody else will be saying the same thing and I don't have the writing skills to make my story sound more sincere.

 

[TopSecret]

I'll just post it here:


My favorite part is this

I used to read PSs for SDNers (DON'T KEEP SENDING THEM TO ME, I DELETE THEM), and I saw that so many times

Yes, a lot of cheesy drama could ruin what would otherwise be a good essay.

 

[BerlinDude]

I don't care how smart you are, you could be Dr. Manhattan and you'll have a tough time telling BS from sincerity when applicants' characters, writing skills, and just about everything else differ so much. Sincerity might be difficult to fake in person, but it certainly isn't hard on paper. Heck, I REALLY do enjoy helping people, but I can't really emphasize that on my essay because I know everybody else will be saying the same thing and I don't have the writing skills to make my story sound more sincere.

👍 Amen. People lie all the time in the application process. I mock interviewed this one guy who doesn't really have any hobbies, but would say he goes camping and hunting and have cute descriptions of camp sites and amusing anecdotes and everything. If I didn't know any better, I'd have believed him.

People give too much credence to AdComs, they are only human. They can't read minds over long distances.

To the OP, you have to ask yourself are you misrepresenting the details of the story or it's essence. There is a difference between the two.

 

[TopSecret]

👍 Amen. People lie all the time in the application process. I mock interviewed this one guy who doesn't really have any hobbies, but would say he goes camping and hunting and have cute descriptions of camp sites and amusing anecdotes and everything. If I didn't know any better, I'd have believed him.

People give too much credence to AdComs, they are only human. They can't read minds over long distances.

To the OP, you have to ask yourself are you misrepresenting the details of the story or it's essence. There is a difference between the two.

That is just sad.

 

[dingyibvs]

👍 Amen. People lie all the time in the application process. I mock interviewed this one guy who doesn't really have any hobbies, but would say he goes camping and hunting and have cute descriptions of camp sites and amusing anecdotes and everything. If I didn't know any better, I'd have believed him.

People give too much credence to AdComs, they are only human. They can't read minds over long distances.

To the OP, you have to ask yourself are you misrepresenting the details of the story or it's essence. There is a difference between the two.

Yea, my friend is full Asian, and he applied as URM(said he was 1/8 Hispanic) and got in.

 

[brooklynblunder]

thats hilarious

 

[TopSecret]

Yea, my friend is full Asian, and he applied as URM(said he was 1/8 Hispanic) and got in.

Was he a Pacific Islander/Filipino?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I'm interested in medicine, I'm just finding it hard to generate the typical P.S. stuff that it seems is the norm. As far as integrity and fraudulent behavior go, I would not consider this to be fraudulent at all. Of course I've had patient interaction and done the typical pre-med stuff. But I know a lot of friends who have joked about how they are putting more stuff on there than actually happened. I assumed it was a pretty common thing and thought I'd ask. I'm not saying making stuff up completely. It's a game, and things like this happen.

If you don't think embellishing is fraudulent, why did you ask about it?

 

[45408]

I don't care how smart you are, you could be Dr. Manhattan and you'll have a tough time telling BS from sincerity when applicants' characters, writing skills, and just about everything else differ so much. Sincerity might be difficult to fake in person, but it certainly isn't hard on paper. Heck, I REALLY do enjoy helping people, but I can't really emphasize that on my essay because I know everybody else will be saying the same thing and I don't have the writing skills to make my story sound more sincere.

If you sound like "really sincerely want to help people," they'll think you're being melodramatic and roll their eyes. Can you fake them out? Of course. You're probably not a good enough writer to do it though.

👍 Amen. People lie all the time in the application process. I mock interviewed this one guy who doesn't really have any hobbies, but would say he goes camping and hunting and have cute descriptions of camp sites and amusing anecdotes and everything. If I didn't know any better, I'd have believed him.

People give too much credence to AdComs, they are only human. They can't read minds over long distances.

And if someone asked him what kind of hunting rifle he used, would he have a good answer? And would he know the difference between a 12-gauge and a 30.06? Because if someone didn't, I would know they had never gone hunting in their life. "Oh, you go duck hunting? What kind of blind do you use? and what's your favorite call?" I'd be trying to make conversation, but if you were lying to me, it'd be obvious. People have lied about being able to play the piano, only to get brought down to the piano in the lobby and told to play something. Oops. Same for foreign languages. I have classmates who fluently speak very random languages.

CAN you lie and get away with it? YES. Do it at your own risk though, because you'll get rejected in an instant for lying.

 

[TopSecret]

If you sound like "really sincerely want to help people," they'll think you're being melodramatic and roll their eyes. Can you fake them out? Of course. You're probably not a good enough writer to do it though.


And if someone asked him what kind of hunting rifle he used, would he have a good answer? And would he know the difference between a 12-gauge and a 30.06? Because if someone didn't, I would know they had never gone hunting in their life. "Oh, you go duck hunting? What kind of blind do you use? and what's your favorite call?" I'd be trying to make conversation, but if you were lying to me, it'd be obvious. People have lied about being able to play the piano, only to get brought down to the piano in the lobby and told to play something. Oops. Same for foreign languages. I have classmates who fluently speak very random languages.

CAN you lie and get away with it? YES. Do it at your own risk though, because you'll get rejected in an instant for lying.

This is why standardized tests are so important.

 

[BerlinDude]

And if someone asked him what kind of hunting rifle he used, would he have a good answer? And would he know the difference between a 12-gauge and a 30.06? Because if someone didn't, I would know they had never gone hunting in their life. "Oh, you go duck hunting? What kind of blind do you use? and what's your favorite call?" I'd be trying to make conversation, but if you were lying to me, it'd be obvious. People have lied about being able to play the piano, only to get brought down to the piano in the lobby and told to play something. Oops. Same for foreign languages. I have classmates who fluently speak very random languages.

CAN you lie and get away with it? YES. Do it at your own risk though, because you'll get rejected in an instant for lying.

Actually he would. He was very detailed about lying and researched all those questions in advance. Delivery was flawless. On the other hand, I am a terrible liar. My face twitches, my voice changes, etc. I can't lie about anything.

Lying is a skill you need to develop. I've been practicing at home, with those closest to me. Hopefully soon I'll be good enough to lie for an interview.🙂

 

[JediZero]

Actually he would. He was very detailed about lying and researched all those questions in advance. Delivery was flawless. On the other hand, I am a terrible liar. My face twitches, my voice changes, etc. I can't lie about anything.

Lying is a skill you need to develop. I've been practicing at home, with those closest to me. Hopefully soon I'll be good enough to lie for an interview.🙂

This statement saddens me.

 

[BerlinDude]

This statement saddens me.

I know what you mean. I didn't get much experience lying when I was a kid, since my parents pretty much let me do whatever I wanted. I really felt like I was at a disadvantage when I needed to lie for interviews or to professors or friends. But I'm practicing, and I think I am improving really quickly.

I'm sure if you work hard, you can be great! Maybe you'll find you have a knack for it and be a lawyer. 🙂

 

[45408]

Actually he would. He was very detailed about lying and researched all those questions in advance. Delivery was flawless. On the other hand, I am a terrible liar. My face twitches, my voice changes, etc. I can't lie about anything.

You might be a loser when you research hobbies you don't have just so you sound well-rounded.

 

[JediZero]

I know what you mean. I didn't get much experience lying when I was a kid, since my parents pretty much let me do whatever I wanted. I really felt like I was at a disadvantage when I needed to lie for interviews or to professors or friends. But I'm practicing, and I think I am improving really quickly.

I'm sure if you work hard, you can be great! Maybe you'll find you have a knack for it and be a lawyer. 🙂

If your suggestion is that I start practicing, then clearly you did not understand what I meant.

Instead of trying to appear like you're an ideal candidate for medicine, why not try being an ideal candidate? As in practicing consistency and integrity, and making choices because of who you are and what you enjoy rather than what you think will make your application look better?

 

[He2]

If your suggestion is that I start practicing, then clearly you did not understand what I meant.

Instead of trying to appear like you're an ideal candidate for medicine, why not try being an ideal candidate? As in practicing consistency and integrity, and making choices because of who you are and what you enjoy rather than what you think will make your application look better?

as they say, the best liars actually BELIEVE they are telling the truth 😉

BE THE ideal candidate. BE THE ideal candidate. you can do it! you just have to believe!

 

[BerlinDude]

If your suggestion is that I start practicing, then clearly you did not understand what I meant.

Instead of trying to appear like you're an ideal candidate for medicine, why not try being an ideal candidate? As in practicing consistency and integrity, and making choices because of who you are and what you enjoy rather than what you think will make your application look better?

No, my suggestion is that you get a sense of humor. Lighten up dude. 🙂

Anyway, there is no such thing as an ideal candidate. It's very easy for an AdCom to take your main strength and turn it into a weakness. If you have a lot of hobbies/extracurriculars, you're not focused. If you have one major one, you're not well-rounded. If you have low test scores, you're stupid. If you have high test scores, you're a bookworm.

You basically have to figure out what the interviewer wants to hear and give it to them. What you enjoy or what you think is best is completely irrelevant.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

It's a lot easier to lie on paper than in person. But I also don't see a compelling reason to lie here. Just talk about the patients separately.

Talking about any one pt in your PS as though he/she really exists could begin to look like a HIPAA infraction. I'd much prefer to make it evident the kinds of px I've worked w/. Sure, there may be those examples of px that really change your mind abt the profession but there should be a number of them, not just one or two, so mention them in the plural.

The key to respecting confidentiality isn't to "not talk about patients," it's to talk about them in a way that makes them anonymous to those not directly involved in their care. If you say something like, "A 30-year old white male presented with constipation," that isn't violating confidentiality.

 

[JediZero]

No, my suggestion is that you get a sense of humor. Lighten up dude. 🙂

Anyway, there is no such thing as an ideal candidate. It's very easy for an AdCom to take your main strength and turn it into a weakness. If you have a lot of hobbies/extracurriculars, you're not focused. If you have one major one, you're not well-rounded. If you have low test scores, you're stupid. If you have high test scores, you're a bookworm.

You basically have to figure out what the interviewer wants to hear and give it to them. What you enjoy or what you think is best is completely irrelevant.

Hehe... yeah, sorry. Internet does that to me sometimes. 😳

Still... integrity is important to me. More important than getting into a med school. Obviously, schools are looking for different things and you ought to highlight the aspects of yourself that you think the school is looking for. But if you start lying to make yourself fit what you think they're looking for, you've crossed the line, IMO.

I plan on just being myself throughout this whole process. If a school likes what they see, great! If they don't, I may not have fit in there in the first place.

Example: Loma Linda. They ask on their application if you have had alcohol in the last year. I can lie and tell them no, I've never touched the stuff. Or I can tell them yes, I drink socially, but it's not important to me and I'm fine not doing it for four years. If they're fine with that, then I go on to have four good years there. If they aren't, then they would have been too uptight for me, anyway.