I just want to know if a MD denied rx refill for celexa and pt appointment with new MD will be in a week is pharmacist allow to give pt 7 day emergency supply or not?
I just want to know if a MD denied rx refill for celexa and pt appointment with new MD will be in a week is pharmacist allow to give pt 7 day emergency supply or not?
So what are they to do? The patient doesn't show up for their appointments, you can't continue to authorize refills indefinitely. No valid doctor/patient relationship exists after a while.Someone ought to report said doctor for not titrating their patient off a psych med before refusing a refill. Talk about dangerous.
I just want to know if a MD denied rx refill for celexa and pt appointment with new MD will be in a week is pharmacist allow to give pt 7 day emergency supply or not?
So what are they to do? The patient doesn't show up for their appointments, you can't continue to authorize refills indefinitely. No valid doctor/patient relationship exists after a while.
... It's an SSRI; it's incredibly dangerous to abruptly stop taking it. ...
No it's not.
Tell them to take St Johns Wort for a week.
How do you know it was a high dose of Celexa? If the pt. had a few left and was denied another Rx, you direct them to start titrating off the drug. If the MD denied the Rx you can not give them an emergency refill. Its a pain, but call the doctors office and have then write for a quantity sufficient to at least allow for titration off the drug. If they deny that then you document it and have some legal proof in the case something happens to the patient. I had this happen to me as a new grad. We had faxed the doctors office multiple times about a SSRI. We received no answer for days (I had even called). Finally, they faxed back stating pt. was denied b/c they hadn't followed up for over a year. Sure enough, pt. had a seizure on the way out of the store. The retail place I was working for gave that young guy a really nice settlement (even though I don't think we were at fault here).
You've obviously never titrated off an SSRI before if you really think St Johns Wort would be sufficient to replace a high dose of Celexa. Celexa is a b1tch to come off of.
Heroin is a bitch to come off of, but the withdrawal syndrome is not fatal. That's (one of several reasons) why I don't advance people a few oxys.
You've obviously never titrated off an SSRI before if you really think St Johns Wort would be sufficient to replace a high dose of Celexa. Celexa is a b1tch to come off of.
I'm sure it would be quite a case as well when you're practicing medicine without a license. It could be denied for any number of reasons, not simply a missed office visit. Maybe the doc gave them samples of something new, some IM antipsychotic in the office, they had a reaction to the drug and that's why it's d/ced, etc. If the prescriber says "no, do not give them this medication" and you give it anyway, that's your ass on the line for whatever goes wrong. You can't trust what the patient says and just go by that either. Something like, "I had a reaction to citalopram, so my doctor stopped it, but I'm supposed keep taking my Celexa," however ridiculous, is easily something a patient can come up with.Celexa isn't addictive. It's an SSRI; it's incredibly dangerous to abruptly stop taking it. I'm sure the malpractice lawsuit from the surviving family of a patient who blows their brains out after a sudden stop of their antidepressant would be just lovely.
A man I went to church with in my twenties had been taking a number of antidepressants for a long period of time (10+ years,) his new psychiatrist assumed they were having no more effect on him and stopped treatment with those specific medications abruptly; prescribing new ones. Later that week he splattered his brains all over his truck.
I personally don't think you can ever be too careful with psych patients.
I don't see what's wrong with giving an emergency supply in the situation where the provider denies refills on the grounds that the pt needs to see a new provider. The point of emergency supplies is to give the patient time to get a new rx, and if they've been on a psych med for years, presumably they'll continue to be on one for years. If the provider denied the refill saying the patient shouldn't be on it anymore, that's a different matter.
No, once a prescription has been denied, I would never give an emergency supply. The whole idea of giving an emergency supply is when you know a doctor-patient relationship exists and when there is every reason to believe that the dr will authorize refills once you contact him (but you can't contact her/him because its after hours.) Once you've contacted the doctor and s/he has denied refills for any reason, then there is no legal basis for giving an "emergency" supply.
When faced with situations such as you have described, I have recommended the patient go to one of the several urgent care centers in our area--any of these are willing to give a months supply to a patient after evaluating them, when they are between physicians.
The 72 hour rule is designed to avoid the slippery slope of pharmacists trying to practice medicine. If the doctor hasn't called back or it's the weekend and they're unable to authorize refills then give them the 72 hour quantity or as determined by law. NOTHING ELSE. Giving a 7 day supply is practicing medicine without a license. If you give them the 3 day supply and you still haven't heard back from the doctor, where does the malpractice lie if there is negligence? The prescriber.
Generic celexa is cheap. No big loss to employer to give out 7 tablets. I work in HIV areas and have issues with people wanting me to give out emergency supplies on HIV meds that say you are suppose to dispense in original container and cost thousands per bottle.
Celexa isn't addictive. It's an SSRI; it's incredibly dangerous to abruptly stop taking it. I'm sure the malpractice lawsuit from the surviving family of a patient who blows their brains out after a sudden stop of their antidepressant would be just lovely.
A man I went to church with in my twenties had been taking a number of antidepressants for a long period of time (10+ years,) his new psychiatrist assumed they were having no more effect on him and stopped treatment with those specific medications abruptly; prescribing new ones. Later that week he splattered his brains all over his truck.
I personally don't think you can ever be too careful with psych patients.
Generic celexa is cheap. No big loss to employer to give out 7 tablets. I work in HIV areas and have issues with people wanting me to give out emergency supplies on HIV meds that say you are suppose to dispense in original container and cost thousands per bottle.
In PA the law says that you may give a 3-day emergency supply if it is at your discretion.
Regardless of the consequences if you do not give the emergency fill, I do not believe there is any liability that you can be accountable for if you refuse an emergency fill for any reason (in PA), due to the law's use of the word may.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
It depends on the state. Some states it is 7 days, others it is 30 days, and some 72 hours. Know your local laws.
Birth controlWhat state allows for a 30 days supply? Why would anyone give that many?
Yeah I think you're right...the word may is very much different from shall/will which indicates you are compelled to dispense an emergency supply by law.
It's at your discrection, but it becomes a liability issue on your part. If your actions directly contravene a physician's valid order to NOT dispense a drug, it can be argued that your actions were practicing medicine. So yes, you wouldn't run afoul of the law regarding discretion in dispensing a drug, but you WOULD run afoul of other regulations governing the practice of medicine.
It's like law A says "you may speed on the freeway to get away from baddies chasing you" but in order to do so, you have to open up the throttle on your car and now you run afoul law B that says "you cannot make loud ass sounds in this neighborhood."
I practice in NY. I have not seen any law saying that I may not give a 7 days emergency supply. I dont see any problem here because the intent is good....
I believe it is up to a pharmacist's professional discretion. I am not saying it is legal. I am also not saying that it is illegal unless stated by your BOP. What makes a pharmacist a professional is their ability do things upheld by a standard that is based on ethics in addition to their skill sets.
There are a million situations, and in this case, if the doctor is discontinuing a SSRI that should not be stopped abruptly because there was no follow up for a year, and it takes the customer a week to find a new MD (not unreasonable in today's modern medicine), I think it is okay to give the customer a week's worth if they have been on this medicine for a year.
If you know of any BOP who prosecuted a pharmacist who has an intent in looking out for the patient, I would love to know about it.
What state allows for a 30 days supply? Why would anyone give that many?
North Carolina is one state that allows for a 30 day supply. Also their rules state you must send a notice to the doctor within 72 hours saying you gave an emergency supply.
Birth control
The state of Tennessee has revoked a license for excessive "emergency supplies" under the label of "dispensing without a prescription" The two pharmacists I know of surrendered their license "voluntarily" to keep the official description out of the meeting minutes of the board of pharmacy.
Intent is irrelevant here. If someone came crawling into your pharmacy, writhing in pain, giving him 800 mg of Motrin is good intent.
I think you're too focused on the BOP and forget that there's a whole separate/distinct category of laws we're implicitly discussing here. In NY, it's specifically Article 131, Section 6521-6522. At what point do we depart the realm of professional discretion/BOP jurisdiction and venture into the realm of unlawful practice of medicine/board of medicine territory? The line is never distinct.
I'm probably repeating myself, but any BOP is silent on this because it's not in their scope/jurisdiction to govern acts considered medical practice.
You/other posters in this thread make the assumption this is the case. Nowhere did the OP mention this as the reason (unless I missed it somehow). All we know is a patient waltzes into the pharmacy claiming they are out of pills and seeing a new physician in a week, and we have a distinct order to NOT dispense the medication to the patient.
Putting it bluntly... it's not our legal right/practice to make up for what we consider *****ic prescribing practices when we receive a distinct "no" for an answer.
Example: I was rebuffed by a prescriber who ordered fluconazole for a mycelial fungal infection. *****ic, but what was I going to do, send down some vfend instead?
Probably zero, but this isn't the point. That and I'm too busy to look. I'll punt that to the next person that replies.![]()
The state of Tennessee has revoked a license for excessive "emergency supplies" under the label of "dispensing without a prescription" The two pharmacists I know of surrendered their license "voluntarily" to keep the official description out of the meeting minutes of the board of pharmacy.
I don't see giving a weeks worth of meds to hold a customer over practicing medicine. We can take any situation and go either way with it.
I am also not disagreeing with you..., I would not give a patient waltzing into my pharmacy claiming they are out of pills if I do not know who they are. Nor would I give 800 mg of ibuprofen for somebody in pain.
and that is why we are professionals. We should be able to decide what is right or not. That is the point that I am trying to make.
In the old days, most pharmacists have no problems doing this. Independent pharmacists want to look out for their customers.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of people put too much thought into things. For example, when a doctor denies a refill, it only means they are not taking responsibility for the patient and thus can not give them x amount of supplies. It does not mean to NOT dispense the medication to the patient. If a doctor absolutely think that it is not okay to dispense a medication, they will say it a lot of times... ie DO NOT GIVE this medication because patient is experiencing side effects from it.[/QUOTE]
I don't see giving a weeks worth of meds to hold a customer over practicing medicine. We can take any situation and go either way with it.
I am also not disagreeing with you..., I would not give a patient waltzing into my pharmacy claiming they are out of pills if I do not know who they are. Nor would I give 800 mg of ibuprofen for somebody in pain.
and that is why we are professionals. We should be able to decide what is right or not. That is the point that I am trying to make.
In the old days, most pharmacists have no problems doing this. Independent pharmacists want to look out for their customers.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of people put too much thought into things. For example, when a doctor denies a refill, it only means they are not taking responsibility for the patient and thus can not give them x amount of supplies. It does not mean to NOT dispense the medication to the patient. If a doctor absolutely think that it is not okay to dispense a medication, they will say it a lot of times... ie DO NOT GIVE this medication because patient is experiencing side effects from it.
This thread is very interesting from a prescribers perspective. Goes to show we all need more cross profession education.
Denying a refill request isn't a vindictive punishment for the patient as some are painting. I can list a few common situations:care to give us prescriber's POV? sincere request!
Hmm... Tennessee... how much you want to bed that was for *emergency* oxy? 😉
If a doctor absolutely think that it is not okay to dispense a medication, they will say it a lot of times... ie DO NOT GIVE this medication because patient is experiencing side effects from it.