EMT-Basic: crunch time

[Febrifuge]

Hi, all. I have a decision to make, and was hoping y'all can lend an assist.

I'm planning to get EMT-Basic certification, in order to land an entry-level ER Tech or similar job, as a way of building up my experience. There's a lot to do, and I want to use my time well.

I can take one of two versions of the course. Either 3 nights a week from 6 to 10pm, over 8 or 9 weeks in June and July... or I can wait and do it starting in September, only 2 nights a week, but lasting all through Sept, Oct, Nov, and winding up 3 weeks into December.

The questions, then, are...

Has anyone done EMT as a premed? It's been recommended to me as a great way to get exposure, experience, and even networking.

Call me cynical, but either version of the class will be a strain. Is the intense, 8-week, I-hate-life version better than the longer 15-week, when-will-this-end version?

The longer one *might* be in a more convenient location, but either way, there will be hustling to get from work to class.

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[tBw]

it really just depends on your personality. I mean both will teach you to the same standard and prepare you for the same set of exams. So at that stage its just a case of whether you can stand to be in those classes 3 nights a week. For me thats what I would do but then - I am a sicko that enjoys that kind of thing so it wouldn't be such a big deal, would be outside of regular class times so I wouldn't be taking *other* stuff at the same time, and would get me there sooner - so I could get started sooner.

I'm unconvinced that its *that* great a way to make 'connections' though. However, it all depends on where you are doing it. In some areas the basic EMT certification will get you doing a lot more things, whereas in others its tough to even get volunteer jobs with it because they have a plethora of people or an over abundance of regulations. Talk to some people locally about what doors it will actually open for you.

 

[Mike59]

Originally posted by Febrifuge
The questions, then, are...

Has anyone done EMT as a premed? It's been recommended to me as a great way to get exposure, experience, and even networking.

Yes people have done EMT as a premed. Every Tom, Dick and Harry is an EMT- In the premed world it's nothing special.

Only do it if you are sincerely interested in gaining an exposure to an EMT's perspective of patient care or you're wasting your time. It's a time consuming training and work schedule that could take away from your studies if you're not careful. Also, it is vastly different from the physician's perspective and you will not learn much about a physician's work from being an EMT (as opposed to say, shadowing).

I don't know what kind of "networks" you are looking for, but its nothing you can't build as a student with some phone calls.

From my experience, interviewers care much more about fascinating travel experiences, interesting books you've read, or cool stories you have to tell. If EMT floats your boat and you really will enjoy it, by all means go for it, but its not going to "seal the deal" admissions-wise or really prepare you for a medical career much more than the average premed.

 

[DanceMedic]

Will you be obtaining your EMT-B training at a community college? Would this be with or without Fire/Rescue affiliation?

If you are planning on becoming an EMT-B to provide prehospital care whether with fire/rescue or a private ambulance company, my personal opinion is that the longer course does really prepare better EMT's for the field. It's not that the course itself is difficult or overwhelming, but experience out in the field is what makes a good charge EMT. And I think the best time to obtain this experience is while you are in still in class, because you are not yet expected to run the call on your own, so you can develop these skills at a comfortable pace. In addition, what you see in the field will really help solidy the knowledge that you are learning in class. There is nothing like running your first working code and actually doing CPR on a real person to teach you how important it is to get a good seal on the airway or how deep your chest compressions need to be (or even how easily tired you do get). I have worked with more new EMT's than I'd like to, who went through the 'crash course', ends up saving a lot more time, but just does not have the skills nor the confidence to take charge at the scene of a call. Not to say that these skills cannot be developed after the completion of the course, but I think it is simply more beneficial if they were developed concurrently with your EMS knowledge.

However, if you are simply looking to obtain a job as an ER tech in a hospital setting, then I think either course will be fine. As boy wonder said, both courses will teach you the same material and prepare you for the same certification. You will achieve the competency in BLS skills that will be expected of an ER tech through your EMT training with either courses. However, I do think that experience in, or at least knowledge of, prehospital care will definitely be assets when working in the ER.

 

[Ekaltadeta]

EMT is a great plan, as long as you don't do it JUST because it will look good. Beware that ER Tech jobs are not terribly easy to get, especially for rookie EMTs who have no patient care experience. Unless you try to get work at a smaller hospital's ER, it may prove difficult without prior ER experience or a phlebotomy cert. A lot of field EMTs who are burning out on low pay and long hours are trying to get the same jobs. It is a good idea, but difficult in practice. Best of luck.

 

[Febrifuge]

Thanks, everyone. Just to clarify, I'm a non-trad, and I've been volunteering in the ED (a good one, too; my local Level One Trauma Center) for about 3 months, and it's going well. I'm impressing people. I'm also looking to get employed. Get some real patient contact, some responsibility, some experience.

BoyW: By 'connections' I only meant "people who will have seen me do healthcare work, one or two of whom may write letters." It's concievable my tremendous charisma and intelligence might earn me some buddies among the residents and staff docs, but realistically I am just talking about earning a rep as a good kid, while becoming absolutely sure I want to spend 5 years and 150 grand.

Mike59: As a non-trad, I already have plenty of books I've read and stories to tell. Not too many of them involve me being good at taking care of patients, though, so that's the part I'm looking to change. But you're right; I'm in this because the ED perspective is something I'm into, and I think it might help me get where I want to go.

Dance and Ekd: Thank you! This is just what I was looking for. I'm nervous about how marketable I'll be; there's a hiring freeze at the county right now, for example. But I have to plan ahead. And since this is night school while working FT, and I'm not looking to be a field medic (as far as I know), I think I'll be okay with the intense 8-week version.

 

[jaz]

I was certified as EMT-B and am now a 1st year. It did help me get some experience and perspective. I would have to fully disagree with the idea that schools are more interested in what interesting books you have read, or where you have traveled.
Schools are looking for people who have some kind of expereince in what medicine truly is, and don't think it is some romanticized version of ER.
My advice is to get the cert, but only if you will use it. About half of our class has had some kind of actual healthcare exposure,EMT RN, CNA, etc and by that I do not mean shadowing(which in my opinion is not real medical experience)

 

[rebaj]

I got my EMT cert last year in a 6-week, 4 day a week, 8 hour a day program. Coincidentally, I didn't have to work at the same time - lost my night job right before the class started, so I collected unemployment for six weeks instead of looking for a new job right away - but that schedule was completely do-able. There were a couple people in the class who worked part time at the same time; it was rougher on them, but still, almost nobody dropped out. I believe everyone who sat for the exam got certified.

It was a large volume of material, but quite frankly, not very hard. If you are (realistically) planning on going to med school, you probably have the chops to withstand the shorter course.

If you can't get work as an EMT, you can probably volunteer. I'd say don't count on a job, and don't count on it paying well. Here you basically have to start with a patient transport company (boring, but a good low-pressure environment to develop patient care skills) which pays $8-$10/hour. It takes a while to get your foot in the door at a hospital service. I ended up only volunteering, because I couldn't afford to work for so little money; I still think it was worth it. Who knows if it helped my med school apps, but I learned a lot, got comfortable dealing with patients, and got to work the siren!

 

[md_student10021]

It's unlikely you will build any connections, unless in your local EMS system you will have lots of contact with the physician administrators. In most hospitals the EMTs will rarely have any contact with the doctors (it's usually with the nurses). I'd also have to assume that a LOR from another EMT or paramedic wouldn't be particularly helpful, except perhaps in the case of a truly spectacular letter (which I wouldn't expect...).

As for the courses, they sound the same to me, but what do I know... You should be realistic, and realize that any serious field work will be handled by the paramedics, so as an EMT-basic, whatever "skills" you develop won't matter that much (so long as you don't totally screw up).

To be honest, I would think that as a nontraditional student, you'd want to take advantage of this status and do something more interesting, something that might make you stand out from the crowd. Being an ER tech isn't impressive, nor is it particularly interesting and useful. And I would assume (as an "older" premed) that you'd want a better paying job (I'm assuming you're a college graduate?)

Best of luck.

 

[lattimer13]

Originally posted by md_student10021

To be honest, I would think that as a nontraditional student, you'd want to take advantage of this status and do something more interesting, something that might make you stand out from the crowd. Being an ER tech isn't impressive, nor is it particularly interesting and useful.
Best of luck.

are you serious? you mean to tell me that becoming a certified and practicing healthcare provider won't make you stand out from the crowd? i guess the shadowing doctors, volunteering in hospice, and doing research is what does the job, right md_s10021? nobody does that!

also, maybe it's not an impressive job to YOU or others. have you worked as an ER tech? don't tell me it's not interesting being one as a pre-med and not useful. i guess it wasn't interesting when an elderly man coded and was brought into the ED by the medics and i got his heart started again and pumping on its own after 20 minutes of beating on his chest (although that only prolonged his life for another hour...too bad ). or how bout when people come in after cutting a finger off, a gunshot wound, stabbing, a shattered tib/fib fracture, stroke, cancer/terminal illness, etc. you get to see many areas of medicine working in the ED. how's that for exposure and usefulness?

not useful, eh? i'm sure i've learned plenty about medicine, how to treat co-workers in the healthcare field, everybody's role in the ED, how to treat and interact with patients, etc. i'm sure that won't be useful in medical school and when i'm out practicing medicine.

either way, if you do it and don't get a job that requires these skills, you will more likely know what to do in an emergency situation.

 

[BKmedic]

I got my EMT-B through night classes my freshman year in college. I got interested in EMS in high school as a firefighter. At first, I was an engineering major in school with no thoughts of medical school. After working as an EMT, I changed to Biomedical engineering. Then I went all the way for pre-med and microbiology and gave up on the engineering. My second year of college, I took night classes to get my EMT-I. My third year I enrolled in a 14 month paramedic class. I have 12 extra hours of class a week, monday, wendsday and friday nights plus about 24 hours of clinicals some where every week. The clinicals are awesome. They have stuck us every where. I spent two weeks in the ICUs, neuro pedi and tramua. I got to hang out with the Docs and I learned alot. I've gotten to be the guy in charge working many cardiac arrests and I've delivered a baby by myself. The experiance has been invaluable. Well, I'm almost done with medic school, I have 2 more months to go before I go test registry. I got accepted to UT memphis medical school a year before I graduate from Clemson with my microbio degree. I still haven't decided if I'm going to leave or defer for a year. Working EMS was well worth it. I wouldn't be going to medical school if it wasn't for this. Granted, EMS isn't for everyone. It is a very hard job. It can be an easy job to go to school with, because you can sleep or study while you work nights. I would highly recomemnd trying it, but don't just do it to make your self look better to medical schools. EMS will eat you alive. You can get the basic just to see if you like it, but I wouldn't go any further if you don't.

Matt, NREMT-I

 

[southerndoc]

Originally posted by Febrifuge
Has anyone done EMT as a premed? It's been recommended to me as a great way to get exposure, experience, and even networking.

Are you asking if anyone did the course while in pre-med, or if anyone worked while in pre-med?

I worked as an EMT throughout college and later got my paramedic certification. I worked part-time as a paramedic during my first 2 years of medical school, and next year when I start my fourth year, I plan on returning to the rigs (when I have more time available).

It was an experience of a lifetime, and quite frankly, I miss it dearly. I love EMS! Where else can you go into a patient's home and intubate a patient lying on the floor, in a wrecked car, etc.?

Being an EMT won't necessarily make you a better candidate for medical school or residency, but if used wisely, your experiences can open doors into medical school or residency. My experience was one of the reasons why I got into medical school (EDP) and is already working to my advantage for residency. Oddly enough, I actually received a letter from an EM program director inviting me to apply for residency at his institution. (I'm going into surgery though, so go figure.)

I leave you with this advice, for whatever it's worth:

1. If your state allows it, go straight for EMT-Intermediate rather than EMT-Basic. You will have more responsibility and learn more.

2. Learn EVERYTHING you can from your patients. When you pick up a patient, take their medicines with you to the hospital. Write the names of each medicine down. Look up the name of every medicine and learn them in depth. It'll help you tremendously when you do pharmacology in medical school. (BTW, the taking medicines with you to the hospital doesn't help you that much, but makes you look like a star to the nurses and physicians. It's rough trying to admit a patient who doesn't know what medicines they're on, the dosages, etc. I really love it when I can just read the stuff off the bottle when writing admission orders.)

3. Everytime you find out a patient has a particular disease as part of their history, or you hear of a patient being diagnosed with a particular disorder after they reach the ED, make sure you learn everything there is to know about that disease and apply it to your patient -- a lot of times it will help you remember the clinical signs and symptoms because you can easily think of how that patient presented. It'll help you in the long run if you learn this stuff now, because trust me, if you think college is a lot of hours, wait until medical school. Do not compromise your grades to do this though. Nobody wants you to learn all about diseases and make D's and C's in your pre-med courses, because if that happens, you likely will not get into medical school.

4. Follow up on your patients. This is a great networking tool. Get in good with the attendings if you're at a small hospital, or if it's a large hospital, get in good with the residents. This might take time. Check up on your patients by asking the residents involved with the admission how they are doing, what tests were done, how their hospital stay was, etc.

5. Be active in EMS. Do research, work on protocol, quality assurance/improvement, and education committees. Be very active.

Having said that, being an EMT will not give you a distinct advantage over someone who has no patient care experience. Use it wisely, learn from your patients, and you'll have a significant advantage over your other students when you start your clinical years. It can also help you get into medical school. If you get in good with your medical director, then you will have a physician who could write you a letter for admission to medical school. All EMS agencies have physician medical directors, so be sure to get to know him or her very, very well!

 

[Febrifuge]

I've revisited this thread I started, to say thanks to those with excellent advice and give a general sense of what's up with me now.

I am DEFINITELY interested in Emergency Medicine. Not to say that's carved in stone as a specialty, but I love it, I enjoy it, and I seem to be good at it. I've sat in on codes, I've done first aid crew at a big outdoor concert, I'm doing a 12-hour ambulance ridealong next week. Next week is also the final exam in my EMT-B class, and I sit for state and Registry exams in the middle of August.

I have no clue yet where this takes me, professionally. For good or ill, I'm a little underpaid in my present (nonmedical) job, so I could go be an ERT, in the right setting, with the right kind of interaction with docs and the right kind of team approach. Remains to be seen.

I don't expect to get any sort of leg up out of this, except to amass experiences and stories, and learn as much as I can, from as many angles as I can. It's just starting, and so far... damn this is good stuff for me. It's possible I could eventually get to be great at it. Which is something I didn't know a couple months ago.

 

[vinoyp]

Hi,

Good for you Febrifuge . I felt the same way after I started doing my ridealongs. My experiences as an EMT-I were definitely some of the most personally rewarding I've had, and it makes me really eager to continue in the field as a doctor. I got my certs from LA County (didn't take the National Registry), but I will have to recert in New York since I'm headed over there for med school.

It's a great thing, and the experiences and skills you acquire will last you a lifetime.

--Vinoy

 

[nrddct]

how much do emt's make on avg?

 

[vinoyp]

EMT-Is make about $7-$10 an hour, not a great deal. The higher end of the wage typically comes with additional certs like an ambulance driving license and ambulance driving shifts. Overtime policy varies from company to company, but you can typically expect 1 and a half times your wage. Most EMT-Is work a considerable amount of overtime, because only then does their income approach decent levels.

People doing EMT as a career use the EMT-I as a stepping stone toward EMT-P (Paramedic) status. You have to have like 6 or more months of EMT-I field experience and about a year of classes (and then pass an exam) to reach EMT-P. Paramedics make a good deal of money, with $35 k at the low end.

--Vinoy

 

[Febrifuge]

In the state where I live, EMT-I has all but vanished. The program where I'm doing my EMT-B (in a nine-week, 120-hour intensive course) also has a full-on EMT-P program, where you can go the A.S. degree route in about 7 or 8 semesters, or just fast-track to the certification in 3 to 5, depending on your previous coursework. It's hella cool, and if I were sure Paramedic were the life for me, I'd do it.

 

[trauma_junky]

The EMT-B is fireman proof, so that should say it all!

Become a Licenced Paramedic!

 

[dustin04ag]

I am getting my EMT-B right now.... It takes a lot more time than you probably expect. It is summer right now and i am not taking any other classes and all the clinicals that you have to do are kicking my butt. I am never at home anymore between work and EMT. I think that you do get great experience and connections, but i couldnt imagine taking a hard class along with EMT just because of the time commitment.

I also found my class to be pretty basic stuff.... but the problem came in when my instructor is a total dip-**** that doesnt know anything. I have to correct him on everything.... he cant even pronounce his anatomy words. That is just my personal experience. I am sure there are some great teachers out there.... just not in my class.

I have just stuck it out because all the experience i have gotten has been awesome. I would never get to help deliver so many babies as just a volunteer.

 

[DD214_DOC]

If you really want something that stands out, become a Reserve Deputy for the police department.

I may do this for fun, if I have the time.

 

[trauma_junky]

Originally posted by dustin04ag
I am getting my EMT-B right now.... It takes a lot more time than you probably expect. It is summer right now and i am not taking any other classes and all the clinicals that you have to do are kicking my butt. I am never at home anymore between work and EMT. I think that you do get great experience and connections, but i couldnt imagine taking a hard class along with EMT just because of the time commitment.

I also found my class to be pretty basic stuff.... but the problem came in when my instructor is a total dip-**** that doesnt know anything. I have to correct him on everything.... he cant even pronounce his anatomy words. That is just my personal experience. I am sure there are some great teachers out there.... just not in my class.

I have just stuck it out because all the experience i have gotten has been awesome. I would never get to help deliver so many babies as just a volunteer.

Dustin,

you're taking your EMT at Blinn huh? Well as you said above, I took paramedic classes while co-enrolled at A&M. 20 hour semesters! Tthat is one of the reasons my GPA dipped! Just FYI, since most services around the state don't let Basics do ****, the cirriculum really has become watered down and ******ed. There is a huge step up with paramedic. The advantage of paramedic school is they teach you to think like a physician, unlike nursing school (can't do anything with out a doctor's order). You have early interviews, so you are in that high stat group that is flagged for interviews prior to secondaries (just talked to Tech and UTH today). Don't waste your time on EMT if you're just doing it for medical school. That's just my opinion. Because I'm a paramedic, I have more experience in my pinky than most applicants. But If I had to do it all over again, I would just focus on my grades. This appears to be the biggest factor (even though I have a 4.0 in a Neurobilogy Masters NOW!) despite what they say about "well rounded applicants". I personally think they are just blowing smoke up our assess when they say that crap. My medical director used to be on the admissions committees for UTSA and UTH at different points in time. His biggest complaints about the process was it did not pick "well rounded applicants" and it the whole URM issue (usually because they would fail first year classes). Well I didn't mean to get of on a rant hear, but that's my opinion and Im sticking to it.

 

[dustin04ag]

TJ - yep... i am at blinn-dergarden for the summer for my EMT. I was thinking about working on a rig, but after the class I am thinking not so much. But I have really gotten great clinical experience and good connections.

Anybody know how hard it is to get an ER tech job in Texas w/ and EMT-B?

 

[WelchAg04]

Hey Dustin and TJ... I am also looking at EMT-B at Blinn for next summer. I will be going through the application process at the same time, so it isnt really an attempt to add to my application, just to get some more experience for my own benefit. What do you think?

 

[Jeff698]

Howdy y'all!

Originally posted by dustin04ag
TJ - yep... i am at blinn-dergarden for the summer for my EMT.

Granted, its been a while since I was in EMT school (1986), but doesn't A&M still offer an EMT course for credit? I know my instructor retired (Kitz) but I learned more about cardiac physiology in EMT class at A&M than I did in paramedic school.

Having taught many EMT and paramedic courses, I know how unusual my experience in EMT class was so I'll be dissapointed if y'all tell me the courses aren't offered at A&M anymore (or taught as well).

Take care and good luck with the application cycle!
Jeff
MS-III, UTMB
Galveston, TX

 

[dustin04ag]

Yo Jeff.... Nope... A&M doesn't offer EMT anymore, but i really wished they did. I think they just let Blinn take over. They got a dude that has never taught and knows nothing about the science behind what he does. I bet he is a great paramedic..... but for tha love.... he cant teach.

as for WelchAg,

I really dont know if i would recommend the course. First of all it is really freaking expensive. If you add the cost of all your application stuff with the EMT class it is seriously going to be like a fortune. THere are tons of hidden cost in taking that class through Blinn... my whole class is always complaining how expensive this ride has been. If you do end up taking the class then you will have to have taken the April MCAT b/c the class takes a lot of time. And by A LOT... i am talking about 130 hrs of clinicals, and then 7 hrs class/wk, plus 8 hr class every other Sat. I could go on and on. If you want to do it for your own enrichment... then feel free, but i warned you. If you go to A&M and have even had one science course.... sitting through Mike Hays lectures is worse than shooting yourself in the foot. On the other hand ... i loved the clinicals but you have to realize that you get to do just as much in the ER as any other volunteer would (maybe a little bit more... and you get to do L&D which is the coolest). If you are looking for something to look good on the ol' app, then i would suggest a research project in a lab or something. If you are looking for medical experience, i would say look into a medical mission to central america. It will end up costing about the same and I thought i learned more on my med. mission trips than in EMT class. Or if you are just looking to learn, take a class at A&M (Physiology II or Pharmacology) and you will get more out of it than Blinn EMT.

PM if you have any questions or need any more convincing not to take the class.

Dustin

 

[WelchAg04]

Sounds good. Thanks for the advice Dustin.

 

[Jeff698]

Howdy Dustin,

Originally posted by dustin04ag
Yo Jeff.... Nope... A&M doesn't offer EMT anymore, but i really wished they did.

Well, doesn't that just suck. I'm sorry to hear that. It was a great class.

Take care,
Jeff

 

[CharlesCA]

Originally posted by trauma_junky
The EMT-B is fireman proof, so that should say it all!

Become a Licenced Paramedic!

I tend to disagree. Only 14/45 students passed the EMT-B class at Glendale Community College in California this past Spring 2003.

 

[trauma_junky]

Originally posted by CharlesCA
I tend to disagree. Only 14/45 students passed the EMT-B class at Glendale Community College in California this past Spring 2003.

I never cracked a book and got a 99% in the class. You really have to be a dolt to fail the basic class. Remind me not to get into a car accident in CA.

 

[Jeff698]

Originally posted by trauma_junky
I never cracked a book and got a 99% in the class. You really have to be a dolt to fail the basic class. Remind me not to get into a car accident in CA.

Keep in mind that not all classes are created equal. Some courses really are easier than the infamous underwater basketweaving while others are truly challenging. It all depends on the philosophy of the program and the instructors.

Take care,
Jeff

 

[trauma_junky]

Originally posted by Jeff698
Keep in mind that not all classes are created equal. Some courses really are easier than the infamous underwater basketweaving while others are truly challenging. It all depends on the philosophy of the program and the instructors.

Take care,
Jeff

You are right, I guess I shouldn't be so hard. But the fact still remains that the Fed DOT outlines the class.

 

[Jeff698]

Howdy!

Originally posted by trauma_junky
But the fact still remains that the Fed DOT outlines the class.

Yep, NHTSA does indeed have responsibility for developing a National Standard Curriculum. States then decide how to implement that curriculum in their regulations. Texas decided to add a tad bit to it (I was actually the guy in charge of EMS education at TDH at the time). Those regulations set the minimum requirements for a class. Trust me, they add new meaning to the word minimum.

Each individual school then decides how far above, if at all, that minimum standard to go. Some decide the minimum is grossly inadequate and teach far above it. Others decide that the bottom of the barrel sounds like a great place to be and they strive to get down there as quickly as they can.

The truth is that, at least in Texas, there is no strong educational accreditation system for EMS programs. The result is that there is no standard education anywhere in the state and you get huge variation among programs. Fortunately for those of us with an interest in this forum, medical education is not the same way. There is a very strong accreditation system so that you can have some confidence that you can get a decent education at any medical school in the country.

Sorry for my verbosity. This topic is one that I've struggled with for many years before giving up and going to medical school.

Take care,
Jeff Jarvis, LP, MS
UTMB, MS-III
(Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 1990!)