Envision in trouble.

[EctopicFetus]

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Because Durham was on the board of ApolloMD when ValorBridge was founded.

As an investor, I have more knowledge of this than you. I'm going to end this discussion because you obviously have some axe to grind with the way ApolloMD is structured. I can tell you that ValorBridge does not own a controlling interest in ApolloMD (an overwhelming majority of shares are owned by physicians). ApolloMD is not owned and operated by any private equity company.

I think you are being offended because unnecessarily. I have no axe to grind just looking for the truth. It’s important to understand for the residents and potential hires. I think ApolloMD is much better than other cmgs. Everything online shows valor controls Apollo. That’s all I’m saying. Docs may have a controlling interest. One of my close friends is very very tight with yogin Patel.

 

[bravotwozero]

Speaking of CMGs and debt, anyone know if Schumacher is in the same kind of deep hole that envision or APP are?

I know they’re owned by a PE firm out of Toronto called ONEX. And they took out a $500 million loan last year at about 6%?

Their stated revenue is $200 million a year and they’re a much smaller group, so on the surface it doesn’t seem too bad - at least not brink of bankruptcy bad…

 

[Apollyon]

I think you are being offended because unnecessarily. I have no axe to grind just looking for the truth. It’s important to understand for the residents and potential hires. I think ApolloMD is much better than other cmgs. Everything online shows valor controls Apollo. That’s all I’m saying. Docs may have a controlling interest. One of my close friends is very very tight with yogin Patel.

Dude, I got NO dog in this fight, but, from the cheap seats, unbiased, you look like you do have an axe to grind. I was wondering what was your angle in this, because you sounded fixed on this.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Dude, I got NO dog in this fight, but, from the cheap seats, unbiased, you look like you do have an axe to grind. I was wondering what was your angle in this, because you sounded fixed on this.

Truly no axe to grind. I think it is important that docs know who they are working for. My take while i despise the CMGs is that if you choose to work for one good for you. But it is important for docs to understand the business structure of the entities we work for. It is important to understand the insane debt of our employers etc.

Apollo seems fine. From what I have heard they are relatively fair in their pay. I dont hear the same degree of hatred as I have for USACS and envision. Im just very curious about their actual structure and as we know from USACS they try to be as opaque and secretive as possible. wondering if apollo is the same.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

Dude, I got NO dog in this fight, but, from the cheap seats, unbiased, you look like you do have an axe to grind. I was wondering what was your angle in this, because you sounded fixed on this.

I have no dog in this fight. But I had a dog in the war, that USACS then took from me and screwed.

Don't get me wrong, it was all above-board. The dog-screwing was all right there in the contract I signed, and I would've understood it if I had just bothered to take a few more years and get an MBA. And still, I would do it all again if I had to choose, even the dog-screwing thing, because there is much, much more to life than this war.

Ectopic clearly does have an axe to grind against all CMGs. But we have known this for years based on his posts. So he is a known known.

I have no reason to doubt that ApolloMD is a great company.

But my point is, USACS has poisoned the well for me with their not-lies. Suits elsewhere observe the not-lies that work for other suits and then those first suits also start polishing those coconuts with their grubby little monkey paws.

I do not trust suits, and I appreciate Ectopic's digging. I also appreciate that our gracious moderator is under no obligation to post private info on a public forum. But it does bother me (slightly) that the Common Knowledge, ie Internet-available info about ApolloMD, does not match the info he has.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I make no qualms about the reality of my disdain of CMGs. Why would anyone who isnt greatly benefitting ever come to their defense is beyond me. Some are more benevolent than others. Apollo may be that. Vituity is owned by all their docs all equally apparently. It seems reasonable as a setup but that have had some very shady behavior lately.

 

[Mbekweni]

I make no qualms about the reality of my disdain of CMGs. Why would anyone who isnt greatly benefitting ever come to their defense is beyond me. Some are more benevolent than others. Apollo may be that. Vituity is owned by all their docs all equally apparently. It seems reasonable as a setup but that have had some very shady behavior lately.

What shady behavior? I work for Vituity and haven’t seen anything firsthand but am curious.

 

[EctopicFetus]

What shady behavior? I work for Vituity and haven’t seen anything firsthand but am curious.

How they have undercut an SDG in Virginia and scooped up a big contract in Indiana. In Virginia in particular they screwed over an SDG. What I don’t understand is (and I e spoken to borger and others in vituity) if they are equal and fair where is the win in growing that business. Something doesn’t quite feel right but maybe it’s just to decrease their central costs.

 

[turkeyjerky]

What shady behavior? I work for Vituity and haven’t seen anything firsthand but am curious.

How about that policy letter put out a 1-2 years ago where midlevels were going to get credentialed for all advanced procedures company-wide?

 

[Mad Jack]

After the CMGs fall, the next step is hospital employment, which, guess what, isn't much better.

People need to refuse contracts with noncompete clauses if they're going down the employment road. Psychiatrists are able to avoid noncompetes in systems that force them upon most other physicians, which shows that if you're willing to put your foot down you can make your voices heard and make it happen. When you have the ability to go elsewhere and force hospitals to compete, employed arrangements can become gradually more favorable over time.

 

[EctopicFetus]

People need to refuse contracts with noncompete clauses if they're going down the employment road. Psychiatrists are able to avoid noncompetes in systems that force them upon most other physicians, which shows that if you're willing to put your foot down you can make your voices heard and make it happen. When you have the ability to go elsewhere and force hospitals to compete, employed arrangements can become gradually more favorable over time.

Maybe 5 years ago this was an option. 10k too many em docs means it’s gonna be like lord of the flies rather than collaborative work by Ed docs.

 

[bravotwozero]

Maybe 5 years ago this was an option. 10k too many em docs means it’s gonna be like lord of the flies rather than collaborative work by Ed docs.

Incredible that Starbucks baristas have more bargaining power than EPs right now.

 

[EMhawkeye]

Incredible that Starbucks baristas have more bargaining power than EPs right now.

Yeah but they’re 10x more whiney and entitled. Or am I confusing them for med students at hca hospitals or residents from “powerhouse” programs?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Incredible that Starbucks baristas have more bargaining power than EPs right now.

To be fair they arent saddled with 300k in debt. Lets face the truth physicians are a bunch of sissies.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

To be fair they arent saddled with 300k in debt. Lets face the truth physicians are a bunch of sissies.

Honestly, ISTM there are some eternal truths: jocks beat up nerds, might makes right, and metagaming always wins over the Ludic Fallacy. Physicians as a group have been blind to these things at least the 1970s, which is about as far forward as I can see clearly because IIRC it's about as far as Starr covered in _Social Transformation of American Medicine_.

Now, most of "us" are just another group of wage slaves in the vicious cycle of Big Capital. The jocks ate "our" lunch.

And again, It's Not Just Medicine.